Why did the Ottoman Empire not bother to make any real effort to convert their European territories to Islam?
How would the course of European history have changed if the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc, had all been brought into the Dar al-Islam under Turkish guidance?
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>Why did the Ottoman Empire not bother to make any real effort to convert their European territories to Islam?
idk
>How would the course of European history have changed if the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc, had all been brought into the Dar al-Islam under Turkish guidance?
it wouldn't
Because we were retarded enough to think that "people of the Book" (jews and christians) would be grateful enough to defend the empire with us. we should have gave them the Spanish medicine.
How and why would they do that lol
The Ottomans benefitted from ruling over Christian populations as they provided tax revenue through the cizye and soldiers through the devsirme.
Also, Christians are people of the book so it wouldn't have made any sense to convert them. Additionally, they were never gonna to be able tp convert the entire Balkan Peninsula, especially not Greece considering the Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople was loyal to the Empire.
The Ottomans did not see Christianity in general as an enemy. They saw specific Christian states as enemies. They were more ideologically focused against Shi'a Islam in Iran.
Why bothrr converting brown lands to islam?
cuz turk are brown and dumb
>Hungary under T*rkish rule
nah boi
>people of the book
Yes I understand this. But in the early Islamic conquests, there appears to be a great imperative for the Arabs to go forth and conquer as much territory as possible and not just hold onto it and exploit it, but assimilate it into the Islamic world. They even had ambitions to conquer and convert the Eastern Roman Empire.
By the time the Turks take up the mantle, this ambition seems to have disappeared. Did they lose their religious fervour? Surely they must have realised that this was a massive opportunity to change the face of Europe, potentially establishing an enduring Islamic foothold in the south east and transforming Islam into a legitimate European faith.
they were smart enough to know that no sane white will ever convert to Islam, let alone chop off part of his dick for some camel God
Turks weren't originally islamic, they just converted cause it seems practical, like the Mongols. They were never fanatics motivated primarily by religion lik the Arabs but simply imperalists.
They converted because they forced to, no 4d chess at play there
Jizya
>How would the course of European history have changed if the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc, had all been brought into the Dar al-Islam under Turkish guidance?
Converting to Islam was punshible by death in Hungary.
It's pretty funny how Turks ignore how arabs massacred their Tengrist ancestrs by the thousands.
In the Balkans they have an expression, “Are you Turk?” which means “Are you retarded?”. Here’s your answer.
>sane white
en.wikipedia.org
Do you mean greeks are not white or not sane?
the turkic people arabs fought in the 8th are totally unrelated to modern day anatolian
What about Albania? They seem white.
*were forced to
I also noticed how ungrateful south-eastern Europeans are, they could have been occupied by Russia or Prussia instead and got their culture, identity, heritage, religion and economy destroyed and their people could have been russified/germanized. Turkey was an extremely liberal "occupant" comparing to most of European "enlightened" empires.
Then probably insane.
They couldnt ''force'' islamic religion to them. Its against the islamic law. People only converted willingly. Ottomans allowed other religions to exist under their rule. Forcing religion is pointless. You would just anger the christian population and they would turn against you an you would have a hard time to control.
Ottoman were just more ''liberal'' than Arabs. Arabs tend to be nationalistic. Ottomans believed in this way of ruling and it payed then good in a long run. Until nationalism came to Balkans.
If it was the opposite way, then there will be no southern slavic cultures. It only proves, that Ottomans were democratic in some sense.
Hungary's population in 1500: 3 000 000
Hungary's population in 1700: 3 000 000
Whoah, such tolerance
Jizya tax
>They consist primarily of the descendants of the elite Ottoman Janissary corps
so they're descended from abducted brainwashed white children. But even then, it was a white brainwashed child that unfucked himself, so that his white skin didn't match the subhuman shitskin's ones and made history as Vlad Tepes, to this day it's the most famous person to come out of the Ottoman Empire.
Imagine that the most famous person to ever live in your empire was someone that made a name killing you lol.
It's not ignored by any means. it's kind of known that half(maybe more) of the turkics were forced convert since they decided to fight (especially Turgesh Khaganate) against Arabs, the others converted with their free will since they were already friendly towards Arabs after the Battle of Talas.
>white
lmao
Maybe it has to do with their alliance with France.
>Hungary's population in 1989: 11 million
>Hungary's population in 2019: 9,5 million and keeps falling
you just don't want to breed
>taxing jizz
what a surprise
>But in the early Islamic conquests, there appears to be a great imperative for the Arabs to go forth and conquer as much territory as possible and not just hold onto it and exploit it, but assimilate it into the Islamic world
That's not actually true. Egypt was one of the first territories conquered by the Caliphate and they still have a 10% Christian population even today which is pretty impressive considering they were ruled by Muslims for 1300 years.
because of that sweet sweet jizya of course. I do the same when playing muslim in ck2. the extra money from taxing infidels more is worth the occasional rebellion.
>they could have been occupied by Russia or Prussia instead and got their culture, identity, heritage, religion and economy destroyed and their people could have been russified/germanized.
Infinite times better.
We don't wanna breed because commies and trianon killed the Hungarian spirit. We will die out in a hundred years and Indo-niggers finally can have our land.
they only roleplayed as durka durka empire, they let ppl of christian fate alone as long as they payed tax and didnt trigger the durka durka arab branch of the empire
why would Turks rather depict themselves with chinky eyes they don't really have than with tanned skin most of them have?
Because of jizzyia and because they knew better than to forcefully convert and piss off recently conquered provinces when they could just turn them into serfs
Why you did not end sentence?
>...and Ottoman-era converts to Islam from Greek Macedonia (e.g., Vallahades), Crete (Cretan Muslims), northeastern Anatolia and the >to this day it's the most famous person to come out of the Ottoman Empire.
First time when I hear about him.
look where turkestan is on a map.
they were probably a little less brown and sligthly more chinky in the past. even so they arent as brown as people here make them out to be. probably because many of the "turks" abroad arent even turks but kurds and others.
>transforming Islam into a legitimate European faith.
They weren’t thinking about the time when racial Autists on Jow Forums would be arguing about what is an acceptable religion for white people
real Turks are chinks
the Med looking Turks are just assimilated Anatolians
Whenever a brave white Christian revolted, they killed the entire village.
this sandnigger system worked for centuries
>people of the Book"
interesting
It's the first time you hear about Vlad Tepes? ta fuck, do you live under a rock or something?
hahahahah
Well, turks were (and still are) muslims on paper only. This is the trait they share with every other "muslim" society that ever existed invcluding prophet Muhhamad (PBUH) and his followers. While zoroastrianism, judaism and christianity can be practiced as intended by isolated tiny tribe of inbred desert goatfuckers who shun contact with outside world, islam and its forgotten forerunner manicheanism as well as all the later "improvements" upon the formula are utterly unworkable RAW in real life, thus people have to resert to RAI and they end up with something that has little in common with the bullshit in the scripture (btw, this is why catholics think lutherans are retards)
You don't want what you're saying m8.
Out of all nations ever occupied by Prussia, almost all of them have already gone extinct, only Poles and Sorbs are left, the latter ones are dying out too though.
And Russians tried to do the same but they're too incompetent to erase a nation with a more developed culture than theirs.
Don't worry, Slavs are mostly dying out too.
Can someone post the screencap of the Serbian serf having to walk around his house while the Ottoman master has sex with his wife?
Unironicaly we would't let them.
Christian faith of Balkans was one of the major factors that drove Russo-Turkish wars.
Guess which country intervened on Turkish side in most decisive moments.
>Out of all nations ever occupied by Prussia, almost all of them have already gone extinct
this is what poles actually believe
en.wikipedia.org
>more lenient than Christians towards other religions
So, is the muslim hysteria just Judeo-Russo psyops?
>gone extinct
They assimilated into being Germans. Just like many Lithuanians and Ukrainians and Kashubians etc. assimilated into being Poles. Not sure why in our case that is horrible but in your case it's apparently fine
They did, but nearly all of whom they converted moved to Anatolia or were kicked out after successful revolutions of their home nations
I've heard people say that Armenian, Assyrian, Pontic Greek genocides were only possible because the bolshevik revolution had made the empire incapable of sending weapons and supplies to the militias in Anatolia.
Wends, Polabians, Pomeranians, Baltic Prussians, Jotvingians, Galindians, Semigalians, Slavic Silesians, Obotrites etc. etc.
not to mention the attempts to remove French culture from Alsace
>They assimilated into being Germans.
"Assimilated" with swords and guns.
>And Russians tried to do the same but they're too incompetent to erase a nation with a more developed culture than theirs.
It is the same with Germans. They can only wipe out much less formalized nations, when there is similar level of national development the Germanoid chimps out in frustration
>Christian faith of Balkans was one of the major factors that drove Russo-Turkish wars.
You sure it wasn't muh ports?
>Guess which country intervened on Turkish side in most decisive moments.
The eternal anglo of course
>tw, this is why catholics think lutherans are retards)
Catholics were the ones with indulgence.
The bible says anyway that you should practice your faith alone in the chamber and anyone can spread da wörd.
>caring about shit like indulgences when you're both filioquists anyways
Germany should pay compensations to Poland, the only legal successor of all these genocided Slavic nations.
I played as the Prussian in EU4 and I removed the French from the continent, the revolution was still going on though- in Africa
the assimilation of the Wends over the centuries wasn't violent didn't you liar.
the only time there was violence against the Wends was when they were still pagan
and in that crusade Poles and Danes participated just like German Christians
but that doesn't fit in your victim complex world of course
Who made Poland the representative of all West Slavs?
I'd rather give money to the Czechs who are at least not as much of an angry and mentally ill people as Poles.
>You sure it wasn't muh ports?
That too amongst others. Didn't say the only one.
Religion was still a perfectly valid reason to go to war up until 20th century.
Poland never did anything wrong.
Delete this
>Implying the text is original anyway
>I'd rather give money to the Czechs who are at least not as much of an angry and mentally ill people as Poles.
Because they're already partially germanized so no wonder they are leaning toward Germans. Poland is the only real Slavic nation in Central Europe.
>Tadeusz my brother I will go to Berlin and work there as a carpenter
>Kacper you will reget it
>Who cares Tadeusz, I will be rich as fuck
100 years later
>and thus my brother Tadeusz was genocided
I'm not surprised Hungarians defend Germans, you were the only more oppressive nation in Central Europe than them and you could do it only because Germans protected your ass. Trianon was completely justified.
Reminder the millions of Slavs who were magyarized!!!
>what is people of the book
Until 11th century Egypt was mostly Christian
Islamic countries do not bother to convert you unless you're a pagan
Exactly. It's really sad to look at all these lavish palaces in Budapest when you know they were built upon oppression and exploitation of Slavs
No one was massacred lmao
If the Arabs fought the Turks the Turks would wipe the floor with araps
The Turks converted to Islam because tribal leaders like Seljuk converted to Islam
Well Slavs never really built a civilization on their own.
>what is persian art
in turkish and persian miniatures everyone is asian
Weren't Greeks and Armenians serving in the Ottoman army?
to serve in the army you need to be muslim so no
For some reason turks seemed to have a soft spot for us romanians, at least initially. They let us be "free" (for a varying definition of free) and they gave vlachs in the balkans tax exceptions and rights and they just demanded tribute from us even though we kept either rebelling or allying with their enemies. Maybe they loved our salty sheep cheese.
>implying Hungarians did
you got everything from Vienna
Slavic countries were already empires when a bunch of wild Huns only came to Europe
You are geographically hard to control (mountains and shit) and to get across to walachia from bulgaria you have to do a very big rivver crossing up the danube
Yeah, that, too, but the ottomans eventually got to control Girgiu and Ruse that they could use to cross and the south of Wallachia is flat (which is why it had and has a lot less cities, villages and churches, since they just got fucked in raids and battles).
Yes, as janissaries
The truth is, they would have collapsed from revolt. The revolts wouldn't be enough to stop the Ottomans of course but it would have led to Austria or Russia coming in and putting an end to them. By the end of the Ottoman empire they weren't allowed to opress minorities for this exact reason. On the start of the Ottoman empire much of their armies consisted of Greeks, Slavs and Armenians, and without them they wouldn't be able to expand
The fucking IRONY of this post with polacks completely chimping out and going on a nationalist chauvinist expansionist craze during the 1920's, attacking every single one of their neighbours and forcibly supressing/discriminating minorities such as jews, germans, ruthenians et al and trying to polonize them.
Poolandistan is a cancer, it's an abominable mistake of nature
in romania the ottomans relied on the church to administer (tax more or less) the territories in exchange for autonomy
> attacking every single one of their neighbours
like who? how could we attack anyone if after WW1 no country in Central-Eastern Europe had defined borders? everyone fought everyone
>forcibly supressing/discriminating minorities such as jews, germans, ruthenians et al and trying to polonize them.
they CAME to our land, while Germans came to foreign lands, don't you see a difference?
Because the regions would fall into comstant rebellions(on top of those that happened) if they attempted to convert them forcedly.
>They couldnt ''force'' islamic religion to them. Its against the islamic law
On the floor laughing at you for seriously believing this bs
>By the time the Turks take up the mantle, this ambition seems to have disappeared.
no, initially they preferred people not to convert since they made more money from jizya
there is some truth to it though. many regions stayed christian for centuries and christian minorities are still there after more than a thousand years. no surprise since they had to pay extra taxes. why convert your money supply.
the balkans were a profitable region of the caliphate
and the turks benefited from christians because they could tax them higher
also for what it's worth, massacring balkan christians was the pretext european powers used to finally destroy their empire
First of all, they did and it was always unsuccessful so they reverted to "peaceful conversion" by bribing converts with tax exemption and land
Second, if they actually did try to pull an aggressive conversion, 1922 would've happened a few centuries earlier. The empire could only stay alive if all cultures inside are tolerated and the force that would be exerted over forcefully converting them is instead exerted for expansion and defense
So no, the whole "muh good bro turks" is a fucking retarded meme and they'd genocide every non-muslim the moment they got the chance to do so, and in fact, they actually did do so in the last stage of the empire when they did get that chance, technically genociding the entire periphery of the empire to some extent
OP here. The reason I ask this question is because whenever I play EU4 as Ottomans, I usually like to convert the Balkan peoples to Islam, but without actually converting their culture to Turkish afterwards. And I RP my Ottoman Empire as being a federation of Islamo-European states. I usually push into Italy as well and focus also on colonising East/South Africa and Australia.
If I knew how to mod, I would develop this into a Victoria mod, with the main European conflict being between the Muslims in the south east, orthodox in the north east, and protestants in the west (With catholicism being mostly decimated due to the Italians being converted to Islam and Rome becoming a seat of Muslim power).
based
if turks are retard why they ruled by turks for 500 year?
its a "the one eyed leading the blind" situation.
what I know, they kinda did
and the main reason, why they didn't convert them (totally) to Islam is one simple answer
Jizya
no
you don't serve if you pay the jizia
>die out
too stubborn to die, the world is a fuck
What about the janissaries?