What does Jow Forums think of UBI? Would it benefit your country¿

If payed for by land value taxes then good. If payed for by anything else bad.

Would kill our productivity and quality of democracy. No thanks. No one should be paid to exist.

I don't understand how liberal nihilists can turn around and offer bullshit like this when it directly contradicts their assertion of the inherent non-value of life.

would only work if everyone who took ubi moves out of urban areas. otherwise rent is simply going to go up to match the extra money everyone else has.

They tested it in Finland recently. It made people feel better but did not really do anything else. I could have predicted giving people free money would do that.

people dont want to exchange free shit for not free shit
its quite literally that simple

no it isn’t you retarded turkish rapebaby

countries with UBI have not seen a decrease in productivity, in fact having people not have anxiety and struggle for basic necessities improves productivity

fairly certain a bunch of people would waste all their money on booze or heroin - if they didn't get additional social services they'd probably just die

we have a phd in economics over here lads

how does incentivising parasitic behavior improve productivity?

IIRC it didnt make much of a difference in Finkand when they tested it. I dont know how wed pay for it here. It would be about 3.96 trillion a year.

Everyone gets UBI you fucking boomer

I don't trust the retards of the general public with free money

In Finland apparently people fealt happier but they dodnt actually do anything productive.

No welfare, no food stamps, value added tax and voilà. Furthermore the point of introducing UBI is to be prepared for a future paradigm shift (that has already begun) where automation will take away jobs from millions of people.

That's not the point of UBI cum-slurper. Prophet Yang doesn't want to introduce UBI so that people can be more "productive".

>If payed for by anything else bad.
What about increased taxes on the disgustingly righ and profitable corporations with high automation?

this
automation will force pretty much every country to introduce at least some form of UBI in the not-so-far future.

But only actually productive people have to pay for it commie zoomer.

>this
>automation will force pretty much every country to introduce at least some form of UBI in the not-so-far future.
Our AI overloads will just sterilize us.

>What about increased taxes on the disgustingly righ and profitable corporations with high automation?
I think patents should be taxed, because they're economically similar to land. Also I would tax companies based on market to prevent monopolies as it's a much more robust system than anti-trust. Otherwise it doesn't really matter if companies are profitable or automated, competition will eat up their rents. Even so, land value taxation is necessary otherwise the UBI will just be stolen by landlords.

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why would people who work want to mix their money with the people who do not work tho?

we have seen this infinite times, when counterfeiters introduce identical fake money or when governments print more money, or any time the pool of money increases
the pool of money gets bigger, but the pool of products doesnt

this is why germans during hyperinflation had to carry backpacks of money to buy bread, money was worthless
this is why zimbabwe government printed quadrillion dollar bills and made signs around toilets to not use zim dollars as toilet paper because it doesnt flush

this money will become worthless

*market share

>Our AI overloads will just sterilize us.
Based. Read The Revolutionary Phenotype by J. F. Gariépy.

Yes it's saving the country

it will probably happen, as most low skill jobs are useless in here
it's another jewish scam to buy social peace and keep the people complacent

"give everybody free money, make them all obese, and make them all high on weed too"
yep that sounds like the perfect way to enslave a population, now just put a virtual reality porn youtube helmet on them and you are sure they will never cause trouble

He's not proposing printing money to pay for it, he wants to use taxes.

>why would people who work want to mix their money with the people who do not work tho?
A dollar is a dollar lmao. They're not going to pay UBI in monopoly money.

asians look all same
this guy has absolutely nothing unique about him

my point is that everyone is simply going to raise the price of their services, and that LITERALLY NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE

poor people will remain poor and free 1000$ wont matter

>no UBI
>I have to grind at a job i hate, barely meeting quote just to survive, empty stomach and low morale, go home and can't afford to do anything so i just plan for my next day of work, life becomes a grey drudge

>UBI
>have the financial stability to safely choose where i work, if i get fired i know it's not the end of the world because i won't be able to afford luxuries or hobbies but i know i won't be dead on the street. Can use the UBI for basic menial necessities like food, housing, clothes etc., and can use my surplus funds to invest in things i enjoy and lead a more fulfilling life

it's really not that hard to imagine, that image of a parasitic welfare queen is more or less just fantasy created by right wing capitalists, if you actually look at welfare stats it paints a different picture than what you want to believe of lazy lower class who just want to leech and destroy civility

Nothing wrong with that. There will be a tiny elite and a vast majority of non-productive, entertainment-/food-/porn-etc addicted majority. IQ will no longer be evolutionary advantageous for the majority. There's nothing we can do to stop it.

>my point is that everyone is simply going to raise the price of their services
Not everyone can do this. Landlords can, because they're "profit" isn't actually profit but monopoly rent, which is why land value taxes are necessary for a UBI. Sellers in a competitive industry like cars or most physical consumer goods can't.

Wouldn't it just increase inflation?

It's morally wrong.

>There's nothing we can do to stop it.
As the elite gets smaller and smaller it will be increasingly easier for parts of it to radicalize and takeover, then impose a different model of society.

Wrong. Price sensitivity and competition will largely solve this issue. Now stfu and join the YangGang YYEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ

>I have to grind at a job i hate, barely meeting quote just to survive, empty stomach and low morale, go home and can't afford to do anything so i just plan for my next day of work, life becomes a grey drudge
You have zero excuses to be poor in the US though. Literally just pick up a trade and you can earn 50k+ a year just by being a lazy fat plumber with his asscrack hanging out.

when you inject fresh new money into an economy, price of bread is the first price that goes up

you are quite literally using muh feelings to explain your position
yeah you have to "grind" at a job because that's how bread gets made, no "grueling grind" = no bread

when most people stop doing "grueling grinding", most people dont have bread

literally no one here knows about or understand inflation
they dont understand if # of bread stays the same and # of money increases, bread will just become more expensive

>Wouldn't it just increase inflation?
For some goods yes, for most no. Problem is it increases inflation for housing which will eat it all up, so it's pointless without land taxes

There are a handful of industries in America that are dying off because the newer generations are burdened by rising housing costs and student debt. Having a UBI will just be putting more money into the hands of buyers, and buyers buy things, putting more money into the hands of industries

Morality is a spook. There's no objective good or evil, but nonetheless I would like to know why it's "evil" in your subjective moral system.

>muh feelings

more like muh morale, which has an actual tangible affect on industries and markets

If I could go back in time I would tell myself this, but American public schools are essentially a 15 year advertisement for colleges. High Schools (and even a lot of parents) push incredibly hard for their kids to go to school, a lot of people don't know that trade schools are a viable option unfortunately.

>If I could go back in time
You don't have to, I'm 27 and studying a vocational IT course, it's never too late.

I'm in my last semester of college, don't think it'd be a good idea to just drop all the time and money i've already put into this to go to a trade school, but I might when I'm 30 if i don't like my trade

also I wanted to be a teacher, just because that's what I like doing. Unfortunately not all of aspired to be plumbers and electricians, some of us had passions we wanted to make a living off of. I know that's wishful thinking, but still an idea I wish would come true someday.

>they dont understand if # of bread stays the same and # of money increases
but the supply doesn't stay the same and the money doesn't increases, it is redistributed..

yes, I need my $1000 gibs now

giving everyone 1000$ wont increase the number of yachts, so everyone can have a yacht
giving everyone 1000$ wont increase the number of toasters, so everyone can have a toaster
giving everyone 1000$ wont increase the number of bread, so everyone can have bread

giving everyone 1000$ will just increase the cost of everything
price ration of yachts to toasters wont change
those who own yachts, factories, things, wont feel any difference
and those who are poor will still be poor

Yes please. That's more than 50% of my monthly income. I would be friggin rich with that

Of course there's no objective evil, that doesn't make subjectivity invalid regarding laws and regulations. Subjectively, you probably wouldn't like to be abducted, raped and murdered would you ? Most wouldn't, therefore it can be forbidden to inflict this on others. It's basic reciprocity.
In this case, i wouldn't like being turned into a mindless slave, so i am against doing it to others. Don't do to others what you wouldn't like to happen to you, sorry but Christian morals are actually philosophically sound.

The number of yachts aren't fixed
the number of toasters aren't fixed
the amount of bread isn't fixed

>giving everyone 1000$ will just increase the cost of everything
goods in competitive industries can't unilaterally increase prices without being outcompeted.

People would just have a basic income to spend on an array of basic commodities, they'd be poor yes but they'd be content about it. That's the whole point of UBI. It's not a measure that's pushed by the far left for equality purposes, it's pushed by centrists and mainstream parties in general for appeasing the masses purposes.
Literally a bread and circus policy that is being put into place as the west reaches the final stage of its decadence.

the O N L Y way to make this free 1000$ viable, is to back it up with some goods
this is where automation kicks in
this yang guy would have to set up 'the peoples automated bakery' which would have to produce enough cost effectively, which would have to be profitable enough in other words, to give everyone 1000$

but there is no automated economy yet to justify free 1000$ for everyone
this yang guy didnt have the automated goods already produced, you have to set this thing up BEFORE you can give anyone 1000$ or all you are doing is causing massive inflation (inflation is when there's more money than goods, so all goods become more expensive, and the more traded the goods are like bread, the more expensive they get)

If you don't want to be a slave then become the elite. Become a stem-fag like myself. And you can flush your Christian morals down the toilet.

step 2 of this post: building the actual automation

if you have the marketable skills in engineering to build industrial automation, chances are you would get paid a thousand times more by some private entity to build automation, so you wont be building automation for free
no one is building automation for free
why would anyone build automation for free?

to the ubi enthusiasts, are you building the automation? to the professional welfare class, are you building the automation? no, ofcourse not, this requires actual work
if you were doing actual work, you would be actually paid already and wouldnt even care about any of this

based
which one?

>the O N L Y way to make this free 1000$ viable, is to back it up with some goods
>this is where automation kicks in
>this yang guy would have to set up 'the peoples automated bakery' which would have to produce enough cost effectively, which would have to be profitable enough in other words, to give everyone 1000$
This doesn't make any sense. Also the free NEETbux already exists in huge parts of America. It's called disability. UBI just gets rid of administration costs.

>use taxpayer funds to subsidize wage labour because industry won't pay a living wage
how bout no there chief

have you ever heard of taxes?

do you really think he's going to set up a fucking bakery to make enough money to give everyone 1000$? are you really this dense?

giving every american citizen 1000$ from money gained from taxes probably won't even put a dent in any other budget america is already spending money on. Giving 1000$ to every American probably won't even match military spending

Well I already have money though, that's why I had a proper education, which taught me to be a good person. I think if this all comes to pass the elite will be unhappy about it more than the plebs actually.

He wants UBI before mass automation that's the whole point. To prevent chaos when mass amounts of people start getting laid off because a robot does their job better than themselves. It's a preventive measure and he said so himself. Also we kinda give free money in a sense to underprivileged people through welfare systems.

what's the point of having a government if it's sole purpose isn't to provide for it's people

>free market won't pay a living wage
>government won't pay a living wage
only option at that point is to steal and sell drugs to survive, which already happens in most of America anyways

It wouldn't be every american. In order to get 1k a month you have to opt-in and be over 18 years old. So essentially only adults can get the money

Automation has been occurring through all of human history. What's different about this time?

>people are poor so let's give everyone free money

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>Giving 1000$ to every American probably won't even match military spending
1000 x ~325m x 12mo = 3.9 trillion, so roughly 5 times what the military budget is iirc

The problem isn't low wages, it's rent extraction.

This time you're not losing your job to a human, you're losing your job to something that will always be better at you. A computer that can do a million calculations in a minute will always be faster than you. A company is going to hire something that doesn't eat, sleep, need breaks, etc unlike humans. You won't get that job back.

Yes because paired with an extra 10% VAT it would bring down property prices thus fucking over the eternal boomer who pays more in tax and gets nothing out of it

...

This time automation has become so effective that it will become more profitable for big businesses, who the majority of Americans are employed by, to use machines instead of human labor.

>Yes because paired with an extra 10% VAT it would bring down property prices
did you mean to say LVT? How would VAT bring down property prices? VAT is fucking gay.

actually 252mil because it's only for adults. you're counting children and whatever as well.

throwing a flat sum at every american, regardless of individual levels of wealth, is a brainlet-tier allocation of resources under a capitalist state
changing from a budget oriented towards targeted funding for the most vulnerable to literally giving everyone the same is not how you fix wealth inequality whatsoever

>wouldn't be very American
when will this meme end, the america of now is largely different than when american values were to be looked up to

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What are you even going on about? You missed my point lol

alright, so 3 trillion, still like 3 and a half times the size of your current military budget

maybe i did, your reply was kinda vague

This has already happened. Nobody works in agriculture or manufacturing anymore. People adjusted and moved elsewhere.

CS and mathematics

Ah I see. You are an oversocialized leftie who can only move within the intellectual borders that the government has drawn. I don't want anything to do with you.

Re-read my post again because I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.

if you want to avoid basic economic illiteracy of not knowing what the money is, just view all prices compared to bread
this is what money is, money is a 'social construct' (lmao) we use to trade bread for other things

all economy and trade is just barter
you trade x for y, you trade apples for oranges
how much apples are worth how much oranges? you divide the supply of x by the demand of x in order to get the money value of x
and then you compare the money value of x to the money value of whatever else you wanted to buy

economy is fucking simple unless you are a retard
countrary to popular/illiterate belief:
increasing the money supply wont effect the number of goods!!!
if ratio of bread to toaster was 1 to 10, if bread costs 1$ and toaster costs 10$, flooding the money supply wont change the ratio of breads and toasters

you will just make bread cost 1000$ and toaster cost 10000$
also google inflation

I'm sure he knows it's a lot. It's not like some random guy on 4channel cracked the code and knows something he doesn't.

Actually there still exist plenty of people who work in agriculture, it's not a large amount, but it's still millions.

>money is a 'social construct' (lmao)
>lmao

I don't get it

if you have 1 bread and million starving people
giving a million starving people 1000$ wont prevent starvation

ok you increased the pool of cash but you didnt increase the pool of bread

no one is proposing to increase the money supply

I talked to you about Christian morals 5 minutes ago and now I am the leftie ? Ok, well honestly I am far right and traditionalist but I'd rather a commie with moral ideals than a soulless ultra liberal.
And the government support UBI all the way. Macron is a big proponent of UBI, that's for a good reason.

>oversocialized
words only incels use

then we really have a problem if we're taking about half of real money as there is in circulation and giving it to people every year.

I find it hard to believe you're being this retarded on purpose.

>all economy and trade is just barter
The economy is not zero sum. This is why growth exists.

>increasing the money supply wont effect the number of goods!!!
Firstly, taking money from one person and giving it to another person does not increase the supply of money. Secondly, the supply of goods is not fixed.

more like you have 10 million bread and 1 million healthy people
you give them 5 bread each anyways, so they can be fat, vote for you, and stfu