If you dont make a lot of money in the USA...

if you dont make a lot of money in the USA, then I see no reason to not live in western Europe and take advantage of the higher taxes paying for an increased quality of life for everyone.

Boston is probably the best city in the USA if you're young and have a reason to be there. Seattle as well if you're working for Microsoft/Amazon/Google/SpaceX etc in software
SF/NYC only if you are making a LOT of money, saving thousands per month

the only way to have a decent quality of life in a nice city as a young person in the USA is to have wealthy parents or have scholarships. otherwise you have to ruin your life with loans or go live in the middle of nowhere.

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youtube.com/watch?v=0a5BJxrarL0
youtu.be/Pa1aMLB0uno
nber.org/papers/w12497
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Absolutely and definitely true

How do you imagine things to be different over here?
The Netherlands only has 3 cities worth living in everything else is pure and utter trash only fit for immigrants and provincials

Government gibs, universal health care, social safety nets

The netherlands is also smaller than 41 states

Wealthy parents are a disadvantage if they're not willing to pay your tuition I qualified for course fee waivers and the full Pell Grant because my mom was so poor.

I might move to Boston for work in a few years. Is it actually nice?
How about you just get a job, retard.

A friend of mine is there right now and says it’s amazing

I do have a job user.

>otherwise you have to ruin your life with loans or go live in the middle of nowhere.

Uh..
1. Maintain good grades and get scholarships
2. Go into military, gain college credit through training and get GI Bill and healthcare for life

It seems interesting. The only thing I’m worried about is think they have shitty gun laws
And?

And what? You're the one who told me to get a job

Well you have a job, so that is good. What is the problem? I imagine if you don’t make much money in the Netherlands life is probably equally as shitty.

I don't have any problem at all. I just think that being poor in the Netherlands is preferable to being poor in the states, because of govt gibs

>government gibs
You’re still paying for it

Sorta coping.

But Western countries in Europe are developing the same way. Attractive cities are expensive if you don't have rich parents or a good job. Not as extreme as in the USA but same direction.

Even if I was extremely poor? I'd be being practically nothing in taxes I'd imagine, someone else is paying it for me

I’m just saying when Americans bitch and moan about having loans and all, they had other options that they chose to not go with.

I did 3 years in the military and my uni is 100% covered by the government. Not only that, but I get a pay check every month of $2,336 (Tax free) and I also recieved $1,000 for books and supplies.

Not everyone can join. I'm in ROTC right now, but to suggest that if you want to pay for college you need to join the military is kind of retarded. Not everyone should serve.

>decent quality of life in a nice city as a young person
Negro if you have food on your plate, a place to sleep, a place to study, $40/week to take a chick out, and transportation you already have it alright.

>Noooo I suffer in the first world

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I didn’t say everyone should serve.

Plus, if you don’t want to go into the military, scholarships exist. Infact, my uni just sent out a memo a few weeks ago begging for students to apply for scholarships. Apparently last semester so few students applied that D grade students were getting half and full rides

>die for israel goy it's the only way you can afford an education in this country

The military is very broad. Someone wanting to work in IT could join the Reserves, get trained and certified in IT, only have to do military duty 1 weekend a month, and get free uni. So not only will your resume look great with relevant experience and certificates in a career you wanted to do anyways, you also get free uni.

If you want to spend your entire enlistment inside an air conditioned office, it's pretty easy to get a job doing that. I'm not even that user, but I hate how people have that rhetoric about serving. But I agree you shouldn't have to serve just to pay for college.

Again, scholarships.

I know. I didn't reply to your other post because I completely agree with you. I was just specifically making it clear to the Leaf, you know how slow they can be.

Be my guest if it worked out for you. But it's sort of rationalizing as university in many German states is for free and you only have to pay for other expenses like flats and health care. Many people need to make debt for going to university but it's far from being as bad as in America.

This. I'm doing my masters now and I've seen how hard the Pajeets and the poorer chinks have it, especially the Pajeets. Not saying things are all rosy here but we have it a lot better than most

I’d rather pay to help my countrymen in their times of need than spending that money to help Israel blow up various hospitals and orphanages.

Does the military force you to not be an autist, also what branch?
t. interested

or just make it free lol

>or go live in the middle of nowhere.
sounds perfect to me

Well, if a student takes uni seriously, they could apply and get a scholarship which could cover 25-50 or even 100% of the cost. Or they could also get a job with a company that helps pay for uni.

Hell, even McDonalds employees get tuition assistance toward uni

I knew autist when I was in. I also knew people who went in autist and came out chad. I suppose it really depends on how well you can accept change

If you go to community college for the first two years of college, it should save you a huge chunk of change. I don't understand what are the advantages of attending freshman and sophomore years at a 4 year university. The courses are exactly the same. You're not gonna get a better education at a 4 year university just because your instructor has a PhD.

I am from Bosnia, take me to America
I really want to see, statue of Liberty
I can no longer wait, take me to you United States
take me to Golden Gate, I will assimilate

The grass is always greener in neighbour's court-yard
I wish to leave this nightmare go to a promised land
Please, take me to your leader, I want my green card
I want to fly over like a rocket from the Balkans

>I don't understand what are the advantages of attending freshman and sophomore years at a 4 year university.
There are very few reasons to do that. Really the only legitimate reason is if you want to go to an elite school. Not all elite unis will accept community college transfers.

The main reason students go to big 4 year unis as a freshman is because they want “the college experience”. It’s gay desu

99.9% of Americans never go to the Statue of Liberty. This especially includes New Yorkers

Ok Mr Bosnian. You can come here. But you must bring Bosnian qts

youtube.com/watch?v=0a5BJxrarL0

I guess not everyone will get a scholarship. And needing to apply for that thing just to be fed is degrading if you live in a first world country. Ane student debt in your country seems to be quite high. Something doesn't add up.

>I guess not everyone will get a scholarship
Of course. In order to get a scholarship you must have good grades and be seeking a degree in a relevant field. So, a student who has minimum grades and is seeking a History Degree isn’t likely to get a scholarship. It makes sense.
>Ane student debt in your country seems to be quite high. Something doesn't add up.
American students are dumb and make it far more expensive than it needs to be. Instead of staying with their parents and going to a local community college (which are much cheaper), Americans LOVE to choose a uni far away from home where they can live on campus and party. They are 4 year unis and they are much more expensive than a community college. Not only is the uni more expensive, now that student is paying for rent.

It’s all individual choices. Getting a degree CAN be affordable here.

Here you get an assured $800 government grant for your living expenses a month in addition to college which is free which is only half loan.

stop talking like a nigger/hick

Don’t you think that’s a waste of tax money tho? I mean, paying for students who go to uni only to not pay attention, have poor grades, get drunk, and get an irrelevant degree?

>living with parents because you would be broke otherwise
>going to the next college and not the one you want because you can't afford it.
This aren't exactly "free choices". Like I said you are rationalizing away that even mundane things like moving out after highschool are unreasonable expensive in the USA.

why not just make it free lol

I don’t understand. It is a choice though...

Most graduate and pay back the grant. They have a degree they likely could not have afforded without the grant Even if some waste the money and are unable to pay back - overall the benefit of having the grant is higher.

because our income tax would jump significantly

There's this economist who has been arguing that encouraging people to go to college is a waste of money from a social perspective. He says college diplomas are only valuable because they signal traits like conformity and conscientiousness. They don't represent actual increases in human capital. I think he's pretty convincing desu.

youtu.be/Pa1aMLB0uno

>have poor grades, get drunk, and get an irrelevant degree?
Boomer ideology.

Not at all, because public universities already have objective and selective admission criteria. Tuition fees are not a meritocratic mechanism, they are the opposite. Providing access to college education to those talented people that wouldnd't otherwise be able to afford it doesn't make macro-economical sense since increased social mobility

It's only a free choice if you can choose between to actual alternatives.

We do have grants like that here. Although you have to apply for it

Here they are guaranteed to virtually anyone with parents that are poor enough. Keep in mind that German high school diplomas are more selective and don't always allow you to study at a college. In fact you are not allowed to study at a German university with a normal American diploma if you don't meet a certain set of courses, especially in maths and foreign languages.

If there were more resources for students with good grades and pursuing a relevant degree to get tuition free uni (other than scholarships) then I could see that argument.

I can’t see a reason to pay for some girl to go spend 4 years at uni “studying” Art who is drunk all for years and had a belly full of chad cum to have free uni.
But there are alternatives. A student could go to community college for a year or 2 years and save a significant amount of money, and then transfer for the last 2 years to a uni for their bachelors

Here you just have to prove that you meet the required criteria. In that case you are guaranteed the grant and can sue for it. Proving that you meet the criteria can be a hassle at times and there are some very moronic rules, but it's far better than having nothing.

>If there were more resources for students with good grades and pursuing a relevant degree to get tuition free uni (other than scholarships) then I could see that argument.

As opposed to what? Tuition fees used to build fucking football stadiums? Lmao.

people who defend cost of university in the USA are delusional

>But there are alternatives. A student could go to community college for a year or 2 years and save a significant amount of money, and then transfer for the last 2 years to a uni for their bachelors
They aren't as the choice will be no free decision but influenced by economic pressure. A free choice if you don't need to care about factors like that and chose on your own preference.

>I can’t see a reason to pay for some girl to go spend 4 years at uni “studying” Art who is drunk all for years and had a belly full of chad cum to have free uni.
This really isn't your average student living on a grant. And even why would you care so much about some people leeching if society overall is way better off?

community colleges don’t have football stadiums.

students who go to big unis just want to party

Society isn't better off when people attend college. See

>They aren't as the choice will be no free decision but influenced by economic pressure. A free choice if you don't need to care about factors like that and chose on your own preference.
it is though. I know people who didn’t have much money, but they made the choice to go to a big uni and get a huge loan. The smart thing would have been to go to commnity college, but they chose not to.
>This really isn't your average student living on a grant. And even why would you care so much about some people leeching if society overall is way better off?
I think uni culture is different in your country. American students get drunk and fuck

This guy also believes in open borders. Do you agree with that as well?

Don't get me wrong but you are starting to sound a bit resentful there. University isn't that much about partying.

Sorry but I don't watch a video with were an hourlong video there an academic says to other people "hey, don't become an academic because someone needs to fix my toilet too".

>Sorry but I don't watch a video with were an hourlong video there an academic says to other people "hey, don't become an academic because someone needs to fix my toilet too".

More like: Ivy League educated Libertarian academic tells you why the American education system needs even more atomizing privatization.

Yes. Why, are you retard who opposes open borders when its the consensus among economists that it would increase the world's GDP by magnitudes?

That's not what he says.

Why do you dismiss him because he's an Ivy League educated academic? He says himself that despite staying in the education system for literally decades, he would have very few marketable skills outside of academia.

>it is though.
Like I said, if your choice is influenced by external factors it isn't exactly a free choice. It's just behaving in a way the system is rewarding or not.

>I think uni culture is different in your country. American students get drunk and fuck
In that regard it isn't. People are partying too but not 24/7. And I doubt everyone in the US is partying nonstop.

I tried to put it in a more diplomatic way.

There is one thing you need to know about that sort of economist: If they are talking about what benefits society they are talking about what benefits them and their friends. And if they talk about the economy they are talking about the company they hold shares in.

GDP without other indicators is a complete meme as it doesn't say much about overall or individual well-being in a society.

>That's not what he says.
That's how you reprsented what he is going to say in that video.

>Yes. Why, are you retard who opposes open borders when its the consensus among economists that it would increase the world's GDP by magnitudes?

Because I don't want to live in dystopia straight out of a Neal Stephenson novel.

This. I am quite liberal but advocating for open borders only makes sense if you live in a well guarded mansion far off from the rest of society.

>GDP without other indicators is a complete meme as it doesn't say much about overall or individual well-being in a society.

Exactly. Productivity levels have more than doubled over the last 40 years while working hours and wages have virtually stayed the same. This means all all the newly-created wealth during the last 40 years effectively went to the 1% and their stock portfolios.

Increased GDP figures if those increases end up in the hands of the oligarchy while living conditions for most people worsen.

mean nothing*

A university professor is saying universities shouldn't be subsidized and far less people should be going to college. That hurts him as an academic, retard.

>a world in which people are free to move wherever they want and the human population produces twice as much goods and services is a dystopia

>A Somali man earns only $1000 a year in his home country but moves to New York and earns $40,000 a year
>"The GDP only goes to the top 1%!!!!"

How do I go about moving to France?

>A university professor is saying universities shouldn't be subsidized and far less people should be going to college. That hurts him as an academic, retard.

He is a lobbyist for the private education industry. How is this not fucking obvious to you?

You as an individual won't be free. You will be a corporate slave. Only the ruling elite will enjoy those freedoms. Private education is academic nepotism and sometimes even worse: academic aristocracy like the US with their legacy admissions.

I agree totally.

Having lived in the USA most of my life, but overseas as well, I feel like when I'm in the US there is this pressure to make money, have things, be successful, while in Europe especially, there is less "pressure" to do that. You can just "live" more or less.
That's why I'm selling all my shit and getting Italian citizenship so I can relax for part of my life in Western Europe.

He's not a lobbyist, retard. He works as a college professor at a public university.

Are you seriously arguing people are less free if you allow them migrate freely around the world? You're not making sense.

The Somali man will move to New York and accept a 2,000 year salary and live in a tenement with his entire extended family in order to afford the city. All he will accomplish is improving his own life somewhat at the expense of both societies (Somalia losing its human capital and America losing its labour standards). Anybody advocating for open borders is purely self interested and not interested in reducing poverty/suffering but rather increasing profitability and reducing barriers to profit

That's what economic policy of the last decades was all about. But to be honest some of the baby boomers were profiting as well and therefore support this system.

>A university professor is saying universities shouldn't be subsidized and far less people should be going to college. That hurts him as an academic, retard.
There are fewer academics and they will be much more sought after. And he likely will have an investment in private education too.

>a world in which people are free to move wherever they want and the human population produces twice as much goods and services is a dystopia
Society isn't just about producing goods for the profit of rich businessmen.

Boston can be nice, especially if you like sports and beer. Because that's pretty much all anyone there wants to talk about/do. Historically it's pretty interesting. Winters can suck dick. I'd always prefer a warm climate US city, but if that's not an issue, Boston is near the top of the list of US cities.
t. lived there for 4 years.

>accusing a person of having investments in private education without any basis instead of addressing his arguments

I see your precious German university system hasn't taught you how to form logical arguments.

Our Somali men won't earn those $40k since their won't be a point in employing immigrants if you had to pay them the same wage as the local workforce. What happens is that they are paid less which puts wage pressure on the rest of the local work force. Migrant laborers don't unionize and don't demand better working conditions or hours. In the end the whole workforce is worse off because wages stagnate and cohesion gets destroyed. It's the win from this scheme that goes to the 1%. This is basically the reason for the immigration policies of most Western states today. Create wage pressure to keep wages low and competitive, keep the workforce fractured and open borders means doing this on a massive global scale.

Even in you're contrived scenario, the Somali man is better off. It seems like you're the one who is not actually interesting in addressing world poverty.

This. And it doesn't stop there as the Somali will be from a society that functions in a different way and has different cultural backgrounds too. The transition is quite hard for the children and they may fail becoming alienated youths in the process. Joining gangs or wasting their time with video games isn't exactly that bright of a future.

Low-skilled immigrant labor complements native-born labor. It actually creates employment opportunities for native-born workers and raises their wages.

>This paper asks the following question: what was the effect of surging immigration on average and individual wages of U.S.-born workers during the period 1990-2004? We emphasize the need for a general equilibrium approach to analyze this problem. The impact of immigrants on wages of U.S.-born workers can be evaluated only by accounting carefully for labor market and capital market interactions in production. Using such a general equilibrium approach we estimate that immigrants are imperfect substitutes for U.S.- born workers within the same education-experience-gender group (because they choose different occupations and have different skills). Moreover, accounting for a reasonable speed of adjustment of physical capital we show that most of the wage effects of immigration accrue to native workers within a decade. These two facts imply a positive and significant effect of the 1990-2004 immigration on the average wage of U.S.-born workers overall, both in the short run and in the long run. This positive effect results from averaging a positive effect on wages of U.S.-born workers with at least a high school degree and a small negative effect on wages of U.S.-born workers with no high school degree.

nber.org/papers/w12497

>University isn't that much about partying.
In the US it is. Many students don’t even give a shit about getting a degree. Many go just to party

Not him. But posting a hourlong-video without any tl;dw is not going to support your argument.

I live in an immigrant community, dude. At least 90% of my city is non-white. They transition fine.

>Are you seriously arguing people are less free if you allow them migrate freely around the world? You're not making sense.

Exactly, because migration has been used as a tool by the ruling class to weaken the collective bargaining power of the work force in the past. Open borders is the same process but x100. All countries that employ similar forms of open door policies like attracting a massive amount of migrant labors from third world countries like Singapore or the UAE are very close to the dystopian, neo-feudalist societies I'm describing and I don't want to live in such a nightmare.

>Low-skilled immigrant labor complements native-born labor. It actually creates employment opportunities for native-born workers and raises their wages.

Wages in the US have been stagnating for 40 years adjusted for inflation, only growing by around 9% during this time frame. Any wage growth registered by such a paper would be miniscule

I do too. And like I said I am quite liberal but there are some serious issues with migrants who fail to integrate into society. And I can see this next door if I want to.

Even at university? We have higher drop out-rates in certain majors like arts but it's nothing dramatic. Most people still graduate and get a somewhat decent job afterwards.

If you include non-wage real compensation, total real compensation has not been stagnant. It would make no sense if wages were stagnant because real consumption has nearly doubled over the last 40 years.

What issues? I went to a high and college with immigrant and second-generation immigrants. They assimilate near perfectly. I don't know why you value assimilation so much if you're a liberal anyway.

Because public universities have no incentives to keep students that don't pass their exams within the university while at any larger college in the US there is a big incentive to keep their custom-I mean students paying for their tuition.

Partying doesn’t happen at community college. It happens at university.

>What issues? I went to a high and college with immigrant and second-generation immigrants. They assimilate near perfectly. I don't know why you value assimilation so much if you're a liberal anyway.
Because in Germany a significant segment of migrants isn't assmiliating to a level where we are talking core values of society. If we would be talking about native Germans, we would be in fact talking about far right wing radicalism. Around ~20 percent of Turks hold views that are hardly compatible with a liberal society. The percentage will even be higher amongst Arabs and Afghans. And this vocal minority is causing a lot of trouble. They are spreading criminal and islamist activity and are not only harming society but especially normal immigrants who want to integrate.

tl;dr It's a combination of social issues (unskilled lower people living in poor neighborhoods) and cultural issues (living in a world not compatible with modern society).