Does anyone even think this 'country' should continue to exist? It was an experiment gone wrong, just give Flanders to the Netherlands and Wallonia to France and have it over and done with.
I was in Bruges recently and spoke about this with loads of locals and almost everyone agreed that they would prefer to be part of the Netherlands
Other urls found in this thread:
>Does anyone even think this 'country' should continue to exist?
I do
I think it's Belgium is more important than Pooland.
Remove Poland.
Now that people are less religious, the difference between Flanders and Netherlands is now smaller than the difference between Wallonia and Flanders. So, yes divide it up.
The problem is Brussels. If it weren't for that they would have split up already 2bh.
Also Wallonia in France would make kinda ugly borders if you ask me.
Can we have Flanders instead, pls?
No thanks, we don't want Wallonia, we already have "Hauts-de-France".
waiting for a netherlander to join the split with me
benis ::DDDDDDd
that's not exactly a high benchmark
neither deserve to exist
the Belgian divide has nothing to do with religion you yank retard, this isn't northern ireland
you have no choice, it's part of your country and you're having it
end of story
This country is entirely blame of your politicians. It was created because England want buffer puppet state between France and Prussia.
Why are you Anglos so arrogant and hypocritical?
To be honest, we only need West Flanders, Hainaut & Namur. Luxembourg can get its half back, Germany Eupen-Malmedy & Netherlands East Flanders, Bruxelles, the Brabants, Antwerp & Limburg.
yes i am aware of that but that was 200 years ago
as i said in the OP, we tried an experiment, it was a mistake that went wrong
we need to end this now before it goes any further
we will let you divide it how you wish as long as you can agree it with the netherlands and luxembourg
Fuck u separate-savage. Go to the Africa, beach !
t. europa universalis addict
Thanks to Ukraine, I no longer need to leave Europe to get the true Africa experience because you have an African tier economy
Also, what Belgium did to you for you to want them dismantled, Mr. Farage?
Belgium as a 'nation' themselves did nothing to us personally but Nigel's point is that someone from a non country like Belgium simple cannot comprehend brexit or Britain's attitude towards the EU as they have no reference point or national identity of their own
The Reason i'd prefer W.Flanders over Liege are multiple, not some random clay theft:
>It was part of W.Francia then our Kingdom until the 16th Century
>It provides an insane strategic, maritime & military position towards Germany, and a greater access to the North Sea which proved countless time in Europe history being a very strategic position.
That's the only acceptable partition for France's interests. No point in getting some Brabant territories, Bruxelles which in an enclave position, or Liege that would lead into a bordergore and difficult to defend.
>Netherlands & Luxembourg becomes a big shield for France.
So i'm finally touching something. The whole thread is a Big Brexit cope lmao, so you throwing your frustration on the thought of Dismantling Belgium, right? lol
>just give Flanders to the Netherlands and Wallonia to France and have it over and done with.
Then who gets Brussels? The Flemish want it because technically it is encircled by Flanders, while the Walloons want it because factually it and all surrounding municipalities (including the ones directly connecting it to Flanders) are Francophone. This has led to some retarded pedantry like communities where the majority of the population speaks French as a first language, but city hall isn't allowed to help them in French.
If not for Brussels, the country would've fallen apart a long time ago. Just redraw the language border to its current factual position, divvy up the country and be done with it.
Wrong and retarded. It was created as the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. The Benelux as a single country. French intervention broke it apart, thereby weakening a potential northern counterbalancing power.
To be fair there's no such thing as a British nation either. An English, Scottish or Welsh one sure, but no British nation.
They're literally the same people just speaking a different language each, otherwise they're culturally as well as ethnically a lot more similar than you'd think
That being said the whole of it should be french
no not really
i like french people and i like dutch people therefore i like belgians
i just don't think they should be a country
simple as
>To be fair there's no such thing as a British nation either. An English, Scottish or Welsh one sure, but no British nation.
this is absolute nonsense hahhahahha, you have watched braveheart too many times and fell for scottish propaganda
we have been unified together for over 300 years and are here together on this small island (fuck northern ireland though)
So does the Left Bank of Rhine & Limbourg
You only need Scotland & Wales, you should leave North Ireland reuniting with the rest of the Isle, it's pointless to have a small chunk of the Isle. All or Nothing.
I suppose you're right, Brussels is the main thing stopping this plan
I guess you would just have to do something like pic related
yes, that is what i saying is
i think the island of ireland such be unified as one and the island of britain unified as one
As if the Flemish would ever accept that. Brussels should either become a EU city-state or just join Flanders. Luxembourg is still a francophone city even though Luxembourgish/German have a higher importance anyway.
If you snapped your fingers and this suddenly happened, the collapse of Brussels would follow. But the problem is that this will never happen because the Flemish don't want to redraw the border for the simple reason that Brussels is geographically located in Flanders (as at one point it was a Dutch speaking city that was slowly Frenchified over the course of the long 19th century).
Belgium continues to exist because neither side wants to leave without Brussels.
>Brussels should become a EU city-state
Only a disconnected Eurocrat could believe this nonsense.
Flemish dont want it, give it to Wallonia or maybe make it an autonomous EU Headquarters
>Flemish dont want it,
Hahaha, very funny. A Romanian shouldn't shitp-
>It's actually a Belgian flag
AHAHAHAHA OH WOW HAHAHAAH YOU CAN'T BE OH FUCK I'M LAUGHING TOO HARD I'M... OH NO I'M GONNA COOOOOOOOOOOM GAAAAAAH I'M COOOMING AAAAAAHHHHHHH
to be fair, in reality with the EU and the road towards federalisation, the current status of Belgium is completely irrelevant
this will only actually matter in a hypothetical scenario where the EU collapses and we return to nation states (and i'm not a delusional brexiteer that thinks this will happen)
actual cringe
that transition i laffed
but how did brussels even become francophone in the first place?
sounds pretty pathetic that the local flanders people allowed walloonians to create an enclave in their territoty
>but how did brussels even become francophone in the first place?
How is that surprising considering the huge hegemony that French had among the educated élite? In North-Western Italy a lot of aristocrats only spoke French, Cavour being one of them.
Yes. Russia
This The French poet Baudelaire even described as follows (I'll just paraphrase): the Bruxellois prefer to speak bad French over good Dutch, but the truth is revealed when they bark Dutch orders to their servants.
as an islander with a unified language, i'm struggling to understand how it works on a practical basis
looking at the OP image that small orange slither between Brussels and the Wallonia border, are they even proper Flemish? They're surrounded by francophones and are probably pretty much outer suburbs of Brussels
is there a reason why Russians like Belgium?
>as an islander with a unified language, i'm struggling to understand how it works on a practical basis
In border regions where bilingualism was a natural consequence of the necessity to talk with people from both sides of the border, the ruling class has generally supported the use of French over that of Germanic languages, and in general the working class ended up emulating the upper classes by adopting French as a way to facilitate social mobility. Luxembourg and Bruxelles are the main examples of that, but as I said even North-Western Italy may have realistically followed suit if it didn't end up becoming part of a big italophone State.
>that small orange slither between Brussels and the Wallonia border, are they even proper Flemish?
They're mostly francophone now and they're another source of dispute, as Wallonia would like to annex them to take Brussels with them.
>as an islander with a unified language
It wasn't that long ago that most non-English Brits barely spoke any English, bruh.
>that small orange slither between Brussels and the Wallonia border, are they even proper Flemish?
That's St. Genesius de Rode, a Flemish municipality where the majority of the population speaks French. Because of this fact, combined with the fact that it "connects" Brussels and Flanders, it's very controversial. De facto it's a Flemish municipality with "special language facilities" to accomodate the Francophone majority. Though the reverse also exists, there are Walloon municipalities near the language border where the majority speaks Dutch.
Because the Russians that post on Jow Forums are autistic.
There won't be a splitting, at worse it will be a confederation like Switzerland. It's just the nationalist Flemish party that tries its hardest to get Brussels in Flanders
Nice I often see Russians loving Belgium here
>They're mostly francophone now
that would make more sense to me although I presume most Belgians speak both anyway
>It wasn't that long ago that most non-English Brits barely spoke any English, bruh.
don't care how long ago it was
i grew up in the era of English and know nothing different
although you still haven't answered how a city in Flanders ended up speaking French
I do not remember that we have any conflicts with Belgium. It's quintessentially European country, we do like Europe. First Belge kang served in Russian army. It's not a nation like Germany/France etc like Cuckrange said as so we aren't.
It happened in the 19th century when French was the universal language and it wasn't looked good to speak Flemish so all the rich people (even Flemishà from the capital started to speak French and taught French to their children and in two or three generations everyone speaks French.
We're stuck in NATO though, so we're American puppets who looks to always mess with you even though it would make better sense for the EU to get more friendly relation with Russia.
>I do not remember that we have any conflicts with Belgium.
because they're too irrelevant to go to war with you
russia also hasn't had any conflict with burkina faso, do you love them too?
>It's quintessentially European country
that's because the population is from two different quintessential european countries
sad! the 19th century was also when english overtook french as the lingua franca
the local flemish people are pathetic for not fighting to preserve their language in the region
the english elites also spoke french for many years but we the general population never let it spread
>the english elites also spoke french for many years but we the general population never let it spread
I....I don't know how to tell you this, but the language you're speaking right now isn't Saxon. It'd hardly be intelligible to a Saxon.
>burkina faso
Yeah, people often refer to Russia as Snow Upper Volta with nukes, so we are bros.
They are pretty relevant if you so obsessed with them.
Montenegro in NATO now, it doesn't matter before an actual war.
during the 19th century Wallonia was very wealthy and Flanders very poor. We're the second country in the world (after you) to have started the industrial revolution, mainly in Wallonia.
>Spanish Netherlands
Civilization, culture, art, soul.
>United Provinces
Band societies, pirates, wars, soulless
>heh your language took influence of languages and is a mixture of european languages
yeah, that's how languages work mate... we didn't just make up a lot of gibberish from scratch
will never understand why people on Jow Forums try and insult us for this
>We're the second country in the world (after you) to have started the industrial revolution, mainly in Wallonia.
as a man from birmigham (the heart of the industrial revolution) i was already aware of this fact and i must respect belgium for it
Well France and Netherlands created a blocus on Belgium after our creation because they were seething to not have annexed us. We had to find a way to make money and make things work without trade
You're comparing two phenomena that while similar are still quite distinct from each other. In the British Isles English has always been the language of culture, and while it was influenced by French linguistic loans, English was still firmly regarded as a language fit for education and cultural production.
In Belgium Dutch was seen as a language spoken by the peasants. It's a much different situation.
If anything the situation in Brussels is analogous to that in Ireland with Irish.
big fan of the industrial revolution me
to be fair, the more i think about it, the more based belgium is
for a non country, you have a strong cultural output
your fries, chocolate and beer have made a big impact on the rest of the world
>insult us
Sensitive issue? I just reacted to the demonstrable nonsense that the general population "never let French spread" when the presence of a Francophone elite irrevocably changed the language.
Yes, I know Belgium isn't a real country and right now we're at the end of this country as we know it. But we still made great things considering everything.
>Industrial revolution
>Had huge colony
>One of the founder of EU
We have nice standards of living, etc ...
>Sensitive issue?
no but Jow Forums posters do try to use it to get one over us, particularly french posters
they're like
>look, english borrowed loads of words from the french language
and yeah we did, all languages evolved taking parts from their neighbours
it doesn't make the English language any less English
and if the EU does end up as as a federalised state with Brussels as the capital then you will have reached peak relevancy
Lol that would be based but it will never happen imo
Religion was absolutely the reason why belgium revolted from the Netherlands
Belgium is a real country. It is a UN member state, and it has a de facto and de jure physical territory, government and permanent population which exercise sovereignty independently of any other country.*
I love that Belgium is a real country, if for no other reason that it seems to greatly annoy other Europeans, to the point that they (including Belgians themselves, apparently) will deny obvious and objective facts because "muh ethnicity"/"muh historic clay", or something.
*EU notwithstanding.
I am a biased brexiteer that hates the idea of a federalised EU but even I think it will probably happen, it has always been the end goal of the EU and they're not even trying to hide it anymore
and if it did happen then Brussels is the obvious choice for capital
No it wasn't and even if it was, religion stopped being an issue a long time ago
Northern Ireland mongs are still obsessed with religion until this day but I never hear Belgians mention religion when discussing this issue
cc: is religion an issue?
Yes you're right, idk why the other say not.
Yes I wanted to say a real country like other European one. I also love the fact that Dutch, French and Englos seethe about us but who cares.
>will deny obvious and objective facts because "muh ethnicity"/"muh historic clay", or something.
Well Flemish feel this strongly, that's why they vote for nationalist party. But they won't split the country, they (the politicians) know that Flanders need Wallonia.
It won't happen during our living imo. I'm the opposite of you, I like the idea of EU but I don't think it will last and the EU will be split.
>It won't happen during our living imo.
I think you underestimate how quick things can happen, if Britain actually does leave then the EU will ramp up the process for closer integration, the EU army etc.
things that we would have been against but will be easier to make happen without us
it's at that point where it will be make or break, whether the rest of the EU accepts and supports the closer integration or want to get out
some hardcore brexiteers believe that other countries will follow us and leave too but personally I can't see that happening
It was one of the reasons yes :
(South being Belgium and North being Netherlands)
-Although the South had 3.5 million (62%) inhabitants and the North only 2 million, Belgians represented only 50% of the seats in the States General
-The public debt of the former states had been collected and was now borne by the whole of the kingdom. It started out as 1.25 billion guilders for the United Provinces and only 100 million for the South.
-Most of the institutions were headquartered in the North, and public offices were unevenly distributed. Only one in four ministers was Belgian. There were four times as many Dutch as Belgians in the administration.
-Most of the army was Belgian but the officer were Dutch. Plus they wanted to only use Dutch as the only language
-The unsatisfactory application of freedom of the press and freedom of assembly was regarded by Belgian intellectuals as a means of controlling the South from the North.
-In 1823, a language reform consecrated Dutch as an official language in the Flemish provinces, including southern Brabant (except Nivelles). This legislation aroused opposition from the French-speaking classes. The Flemish popular classes were not in favour of it either, for they did not speak and barely understood standard Dutch.
-The Conservatives of the Netherlands of the North lobbied that only the faithful of the former (Protestant) State Church could be appointed to the government, while the Belgian conservatives wanted to restore Catholicism as a state religion in Belgium. Aware that his new kingdom was predominantly Catholic (3.8 million Catholics for 1.2 million Protestants)
At the end, if it just for leaving without doing anything else it would be stupid too.
Europeans countries on their own don't count for much now, against big empires like USA, Russia, China, India, etc...
I agree that the EU should be more a transnational organization rather than a supranational organization
all of the reasons you mentioned have nothing to do with religion though, maybe religion was a small part and as you've proved there are many other reasons
this yanks seems to think that is comparable to the northern ireland situation which is pure unfiltered religious autism
Well I listed you all the small reasons why there were already troubles between Belgium and Netherlands.
When Belgium became independant, the elites said it was to create a Catholic kingdom without Protestants
>When Belgium became independant, the elites said it was to create a Catholic kingdom without Protestants
yeah 200 years ago but the divide today has nothing to do with religion and no one cares about it
>this whole post
yes totally now noone cares
A quick look into any history book well tell you that you are wrong
Insane that Europeans can talk about land the size of a national park changing hands from one county-sized country to another because of language differences.
Right? I read a quote once that went something like “The European experience is measured in the scope of time, in which 100 years are nothing. The American experience is measured in the scope of distance, in which 100 miles are nothing.”
Exactly mate, that's what I'm trying to say
this yank thinks it's still a critical factor in this day and age
But I'm not talking historically, I am talking about the year 2019
There is still a deep division between Flanders and Wallonia today but it has nothing to do with religion
people in northern Ireland are still primitive enough for religious warfare but Belgian brains have grown too big for that nonsense, the situations are very different
I was talking about the Netherlands/Belgium spilt in the 1830s
It's 2019, get with the times
It's all just part of the EU. soon you will be just like the United States.
If you read the Federalist Papers you'd understand why this is untrue. You'd also understand why the current United States will eventually Balkanize as well.
>The Flemish popular classes were not in favour of it either, for they did not speak and barely understood standard Dutch.
what?
Who cares. The EU is moving towards a Federal System. Belgium is already federalised as hell and the Wallonia and Flanders communities govern themselves on a local level, while the EU makes important decisions on a supra-national level. Soon European countries will be like sovereign states within a federal system and important decisions on economy and foreign policy will be handles by the EU.