To what point are Scandinavian countries successful...

>There is too many of you and you honestly don't have high enough societal trust and pro-government mentality. The system is based on ideal that it's just not exploited and abused too much, because there is almost nothing that can be done about people who do.
Does the Nordic Model require societal trust & pro-government mentality? As far as I'm concerned, all the model is about is economic deregulation, collective bargaining, lots of workers in unions, etc. I can see how the actual implementation would require a collective mindset on certain beliefs, but wouldn't the model itself work just fine in any population?

Would you also agree that theoretically, if the people of the United States had high societal capital & trust in the government, that further deregulation of our economy and the creation of a nationwide welfare state would work?

Wow, you sure showed me

I'm not trying to show you anything that's why I said "seriously". It's like whining about living in a neighborhood you don't like. Just move.

Do you have any insight for the topic of this thread? I'm merely collecting information on rebuttals to the argument against the Nordic Model. You don't know if the context I'm coming at is from a Bernie Sanders supporter who wants it's implementation, a person wanting arguments against people arguing for it, a person curious about what you have to say, etc.

Also, be careful when you just say "just move" to people; to them it's seen that you're voluntarily choosing to live in shittier conditions.

Too many people on welfare.
"Muh individualism" has made collective culture impossible in America.

>Too many people on welfare.
But if a country like the United States were to undergo economic deregulation such as the Nords, would this not be a problem anymore?
>"Muh individualism" has made collective culture impossible in America.
I'm confused as to what people are saying with this argument. I know it's saying that the people of America are not culturally homogeneous compared to the Nordics, but is this argument then referring to the impracticality of its implementation of the Nordic Model in America? Or is there something in the Nordic Model itself which requires its people to be on a moral consensus on collectivity?

please dont come here

I don't plan to. But I am trying to find justifications for not implementing the Nordic Model in America.

So far the only arguments I've encountered in this thread is because America doesn't have a cultural homogeneity & too many people on welfare, to which i've responded with questions that I'm still awaiting an answer for. Do you have any insight?

I always enjoy when closet socialists come on here and rave about the "Nordic Model" and fail to mention that Scandinavian countries consistently rank highest on Indices of how free the market in a country is.

The main consistent trend around the globe is that countries with a freer market are more prosperous. There are plenty of countries with socialized shit like the Nords that are complete shitholes. Didn't work for Venezuela, Cuba...pretty much anywhere without a free market to support such programs.

Free Education is of course a terrible idea if you've actually studies the economics of schooling and what schooling actually is - mainly social signaling. The more people who have education, the less valuable the education is, because the education doesn't really teach you skills so much as it is a signal of employability.

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Too many people, too much cultural variety within population

I wouldn't mind adopting the nordic model but it could only work if we perhaps did it at a state level and in states that are fairly small and homogeneous culturally like one of the eastern states

But what if the arguer was not a self-claimed socialist, but a supporter of free market capitalism & an expanded welfare state?

Wouldn't more employable citizens be good for a nation? What determines its value?

I've talked about those first two points in earlier posts.

So you would think the Nordic Model is implementable on a state-wide scale? Interesting.

Socialism does work when you have a homogeneous population that genuinely cares about one another, as was the case in Nordic countries up until the 1990s.

Before that, people would happily pay a bit of extra tax in order to insure that themselves, as well as the family next door didn't have to starve in case the man of the house was unlucky and lost his job. Same goes for healthcare and education.

But when you introduce foreigners into the equation, who have no sense of belonging and no sense of loyalty, they end up abusing the system. Because why the fuck would you work 40 hours a week for $800 when you can receive $600 + free housing by doing nothing at all?

As the foreigners practice of abusing the welfare system continues, the loyalty amongst population that once cared about one another is fractured. Resulting in a lot of ethnic Nordics checking out as well, opting to abuse the very same welfare benefits that the foreigners began. Because they don't want to feed a machine that takes away 45% of their income and gives it away.

Socialism does work, and when it does it's fucking brilliant. The thing is that it simply won't work without a strict sense of nationalism.

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You need a high trust society, and you need to not be the world superpower keeping everyone else in check

>Socialism does work

Oh, and before someone spergs out about this phrase. I don't mean socialism by definition, since nobody ever practices that. I mean the Nordic version of socialism.

I don't move to Norway personally because as a software dev I get paid more in the USA. Loo at average pays, America thrives on exceptionalism. No better place to get rich, no better place to work in skilled labor. When I try to tell this to people obsessed with the greatness of the Nordic model they ignore me, but it's true.

No need to admit, there are benefits to the american economic system, that are not shared by Scandinavian countries.

Most Americans are selfish and that is why social democratic principles cannot work in the country. Most Americans will let homeless people and vets and sick people die on the streets rather than pay more taxes to establish socialised housing, universal healthcare. Most Americans would be in favor of students having hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and privatized schools instead of education and vocational training being a COMMON good that should be funded by everybody in the society. Americans have been brainwashed by Koch brother controlled media for way too long that they now think it’s amoral to demand billionaire corporatists to pay their fair share but it is moral to deny people homes, healthcare and education, There is no way to save America.

What is the nordic model, one may ask? Well, it is, or it used to be in some cases, having almost 0% nigger population. Look at Sweden and tell me, does the nordic model work with niggers? It does not.

Scandinavian countries are small, with Sweden having only 10 million people (and the other ones less). Also, socialism doesn't work in a globalised world where companies can leave your country when the taxes get too high.

Socialism worked when these countries were isolated.

>but what does this do in effect?
There has been studies, mainly in 'murica, that people don't want to pay taxes when niggers are imported, because they don't want to cater for people outside of their group.

So the only problem with implementing the Nordic Model (regardless of whether people label it actually socialism or free-market capitalism + big welfare state) is that IF implemented outside the Nordic countries, whether by state cohesion or democratically electing a proper official into office, it requires a consensus among the citizens to actively be committed to contributing to the welfare state, which would be impossible in a country like America (with it's diverse culture and beliefs on what the state's role should be)?
Why must it have a smaller population?

Why would I want to pay more taxes? As someone that's well enough off, what does it do for me? We're a country built on the individual.

How did you become a software dev when you cannot do basic math? The amount of money you’re making is irrelevant when you have to pay that money for your healthcare and for your child’s education. In countries where those things are provided by the state you might make less but in the end the standard of living is higher for not only you but everybody.

Basically you want to raise peoples taxes to give more free money to niggers? Completly retarded, kys.

>No better place to get rich
Actually you are wrong, norway is the easiest place to get rich per capita.

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100% nailed it, it's a fact that over half of americans have less than $500 in savings, yet they still consider themselves temporary inconvenienced millionaires and defend historic tax cuts (like trump's current tax reform) to their corporate overworlds by "they earned it, hurrdurr"

I'd say let america burn to the fucking ground, doesn't help that they're also our fucking neighbours. The trade war is a good start to fixing the problem, every country is instigating tariffs to where it hurts red states the most, but I'm afraid these red states are too stupid to understand why they're being targeted and will just double down on going to war with the world cause everyone's jelly about their frEEdom. I pity the fool who isn't a shill and defends trump.

We are not a country of 3 million homogeneous rich educated white people. You can plug any government into that population and it will work well. You will see their system collapse as they bring in immigrants and their demographics begin to look similar to the US.

>So the only problem with implementing the Nordic Model (regardless of whether people label it actually socialism or free-market capitalism + big welfare state) is that IF implemented outside the Nordic countries, whether by state cohesion or democratically electing a proper official into office, it requires a consensus among the citizens to actively be committed to contributing to the welfare state, which would be impossible in a country like America (with it's diverse culture and beliefs on what the state's role should be)?
Yes. White Americans are the only people adding to the government. Blacks and Mestizos are a net-negative and take more than is being brought in by whites.
>Why must it have a smaller population?
Because more people means you need to use more money and more resources and more bureaucracy. Look at Social Security and how much of a failure it is. Not to mention, as I said before, non-whites are a net-negative and are the biggest leeches of them all.

Correct. Or if you want to simplify it; you can't implement the Nordic model when you've got niggers and Mexicans who would jump at the opportunity to abuse it. Followed by whites abusing it, because they don't want to finance the niggers abuse.

>If you don't like it here then move
So instead of trying to learn from the successes of other societies and emulate that same success in our own country we should just jump ship and throw away our identity as american's to live in a nordic country

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In other words, you oppose getting a tax raise as you believe the taxes in America would be given to welfare leeches who do nothing to contribute in return?

Theoretically, would you feel the same about high taxes if America had highly nationalist strong social capital, and your taxes went to folks who care about their country and its citizens who would pay as much taxes?

How would you feel for being a country with strong social capital with each of its citizens being an active member of society? (I know this may be theoretical on a large scale as you will get leeches, but just wondering)

>nordic model

That doesn't work when you have non-whites living in your country.

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Tax collection ensures that the infrastructure is built and maintained, that the police is funded, that national post office does its job , that the whole government machinery is run smoothly. Completely retarded notaxation sperged are unable to understand this. What I propose is that instead of collecting American tax payer money and giving trillions of it to the military why not establish universal health care and free education and trade schooling?

And as for the blacks, improving their status in the U.S. will reduce income inequality, one of the major culprits of crime rates.

You two seem to be against low corporate tax rates, which is an essential concept in the Nordic Model. How would the state get its funds to maintain societal bonds?

>help the community

Our "community" in America hates us

The Black part wants to rob us at gunpoint, the Mexican part wants to sacrifice us to Aztec death gods, and the elite White/jewish parts wants to replace us with Mexicans

There's nowhere to turn, if you're white everyone hates you and wants to steal all your money and/or kill you.

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Would you not get the necessary funds from a further deregulated economy of the United States to afford a welfare state (assuming a culturally homogeneous populus)?

Well said Kraut

People don't realise that crime rates go up in societies that are more impoverished. For example poor whites and blacks commit crime at a similiar rate yet more blacks are in poverty causing crime rates to swell in their communities.

I work with my dad, I don't have my degree yet.

But a degree in state for me is only 50k rounded. That's for in state tuition, a four year degree. (44k to go to UCF, 4k, for 2 years of community college). There is no state income tax here.

On a 200k a year income, which is about what my father makes. he loses 50k a year to federal income tax. Sweden taxes at 50-60% percent for the top income bracket.

So, college is just a 1 time fee of 50k, but he makes an extra 50k a year living here. Plus 800 a month for our family insurance plan. In short, you're wrong. He makes more money in the USA. This is why I'm in no rush to move to sweden/norway.

You fail to understand it's not so much the politics or culture it's the way they behave in general, that's why it works for them. We behave and act a certain way that they don't. I live in a town of 30,000 in Alaska and I notice it down there.

>poor whites and blacks commit crime at a similiar rate

lmao

compare Detroit to West Virginia (take me home) it doesn't even compare.

I've just had a thought.

Seeing that the Nordic Model requires trust to the government & giving them power (through taxes) in order to maintain proper social capital (education, health, etc), isn't the Nordic Model fascist?

While the total number of blacks commit roughly the same number of crime as compared to the total number of whites in America, you also need to take into consideration the fact that blacks are only 10-12% of the population and that whites take up 77% of the population.

fascism means being loyal to your people (ethnicity) and the Nords definitely aren't loyal to their people, just look at Sweden.

>assuming a culturally homogeneous populus
Yes you could, but the US is not homogeneous.

I honestly don't believe we can continue to erode the middle class forever. I believe a strong middle class is the heart and backbone of the American economy and way of life. So, I would pay more taxes if it actually meant that we would have a stronger middle class, to answer your question. Depends on the type of returns I would be seeing.

Have you not looked at Mussolini's Italy? It was not about ethnicity, but rather at one's devotion to the nation. I know Hitler's was based on ethnicity, but that's somewhat of a denomination of fascism which is just as valid in regards to being loyal to one's people

higher taxes will destroy the middle class

In America the tax burden is always shifted off the rich .01% and onto the middle class just look at social security and payroll tax which is basically a regressive tax system that still hasn't been abolished.

Meanwhile the rich in America always get their taxes deducted through capital gains and real estate.

The problem with the Nordic Model is that you need high degrees of solidarity for it to work, otherwise no-one wants to pay the required taxes.

In order to have high degrees of solidarity, you need to have a lot in common. People in Scandinavian societies have a lot in common with each other. Americans don't.

America will never be able to get the Nordic Model to work because people won't pay high taxes if those taxes are going to people different to them.

If you kicked out all the Blacks and Hispanics you could give it an honest crack.

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>in turn argues back "it's immoral to be selfish

>I take your money, what I use it for is irrelevant to the argument. Perhaps I'm extremely charitable and I donate it to people who want to stop infanticide by blowing up abortion clinics (just an analogy, thanks FBI)
>"It is you who are selfish" as I continue to take your money and do whatever I want with it.

Socialism is a great scam honestly. "muh collective" lol

A lot of left-wing politicians believe that if we implement programs to lift people out of poverty and end income inequality, it will just by itself end racial inequality, because people of color are overrrepresented among poor people.
I believe the converse. White people in the US will never vote in favor of programs to end income inequality, BECAUSE they know that such programs will benefit people of color more than white people, and they don't consider black people to be their people.
Basically, they consider themselves to have no obligations whatsoever to any people of color in their communities. No social contract, implicit or explicit. Nothing.

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Stronger economically or socially (or both)?

Mussolini's Italy was all about creating a state that helped the Italian people above everything else. The same went for Germany and Spain for their respective countries and ethnicities.

You seem to be for low corporate taxes, which is an essential concept for any russian shill/brainwashed republicunt.

When your rebuttal is defending low corporate taxes in a country with the biggest historical wealth gap ever, you have to ask yourself. Are you being paid to be this stupid? If not, I got some bad news for you bud...

Was Italy a jus sanguinis state? If so I'd see what you're coming from, but wouldn't it apply to a jus soli state as long as its constituents were culturally homogeneous?

Welfare programs don't bring blacks out of poverty, period.

Blacks naturally live in Bantu subsistence levels of existence and will do anything to return to those levels no matter how many millions of dollars you give them.

Just look at how many black millionaires piss away their fortunes and return to ghetto style living. It's the same thing with blacks on welfare even if you help them they just piss away all the help.

Aren't low corporate taxes essential to the Nordic Model?

Nordic countries are small, homogeneous - US is totally the opposite. But that's changing, especially Sweden and they're fucked for it.

obv all the euro states are already nat-soc that is why the suck

Dude, we have "Easy-ID"

It's a nine digit personal codenumber assigned to every citizen that has it

Basically I can do 100 different things related to the goverment from my own computer. And major life-involving companies, like insurance and pension, also get to use it.

It's an orwellian dystopic nazicamp'esque kind of thing to have your own number that relates to EVERYTHING you do, even out of goverment.
So we can do
taxes
library
insurance
pension
creating a business
Sign up for university
etc
etc
etc

Just from "Easy_ID"

This shit is fucking magical in the daily life, but you will have a hard time getting even 50% of Americans on this boat.

You have to take into consideration that the average poverty rate for blacks is 3-4 times higher than whites (according to a study done by Henry J Kaiser Foundation). Im not trying to make excuses for black people doing crime but I believe if we stregthened disenfranchised minority groups and brought more of them into the middle class our economy would become stronger and the homogenity of our society would matter less.

To me, what matters most is the culture. The spirit of Motown in the 60s/ early 70s, is a perfect example. A thriving middle class created some of the most beautiful music to be created in our nations history. Black men were cool, it was cool to be black. Race wasn't such a huge issue in cities like Detroit, because the auto-industry employed all of the blacks. Not only was this music beautiful in some of the deepest ways imaginable, it was popular! Imagine if this type of music was popular today, instead of Alantian Trap music. I would pay out the ass for that kind of return. Take my money. Take all of it.

Italy had been jus sanguinis since even before the rise of fascism. It had been "right by blood" since Italy became a proper united country in the 1860s.

Ironically the fascists and Mussolini didn't change that much to begin with the just made things more efficient and modernized (and limited the rights of communists and jews).

While I agree that the US has some fucked up corporate tax policies that allows for tax evasion, it's not all black and white. Especially in todays globalized finance system.

Nations are now competing against one another when it comes to attracting corporations, and they keep undercutting eachother, which leads to corporate taxes so low that it fucks over the populations in which the corporations operate.

When you've got the option between having Corporation Cuck paying 3% of its annual return to you, or Corporation Cuck paying 4% of its annual return to Ireland, you choose the 3%, even though everyone fucking knows they should have been paying 20%. Because 3% is better than 0%.

So it all comes down to cultural homogeneity, or whether people will be devoted to the system in America, yes?

Scandinavia would do fine if it went full free enterprise but not if it went full socialist. What does that tell you about socialism?

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Race was a huge issue in the 60s, there were literal race riots that chased most of the whites out of town (caused by police shutting down an illegal unlicensed bar in the black part of town)

Black rioters burned down whole streets and then blamed racism.

I agree with you sir. I would love to live in those days.

Yeah great times

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not so much as getting money out of corruption, but follow the money has been a dead meme in america for a while ....

You can never have a system in place that the population doesn't like

That is why Middle-Eastern countries are so horrible. It's the people.

Same goes for the US: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
No equality or socialism in that statement. Which is the American mindset.

You loose a lot of liberties in the Nordic Model.
Everthing is controlled and regulated (at least fairly competently thank the gods)

Because tribalism is very real you naive retard

Honestly, black culture peaked in 1971 with Marvin Gaye - What's Going On

It only got better up to that point, and worse after it.

>Everthing is controlled and regulated

Not true though

Sweden has allemansratt, the US and NZ are all private property everywhere

Scandinavia you can find people whose brains haven't been fucked by television

Scandinavia it's much, much less likely to get trapped in wage slavery etc.

the nordic model only works with a homogeneous population, hardworking people, and ethics

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This, the system is already starting to crumble here, and i'm not saying it's just the niggers that we import but it sure is convenient that after 2015 our police force,education and healthcare started to suffer from budget cuts. And the gibs are currently next in line. Socialism can work but it will never work in the US simply because the people are conditioned in to hating even the concept of it, so much so that even without actually knowing what the fuck you're talking about you react to the mere word with disgust and hate.

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Yep

So far I've gathered from this thread that you all aren't against the Nordic Model, the only problem you have with it is that it's not compatible with countries like the United States due to a diverse cultural following on the role of government in its constituents. Otherwise, you'd all happily pay taxes if it meant effective results for the masses. Yes?

You come from the worst nanny-state in the world, you cannot watch simpsons porn without going to prison for fucks sake.

And compared to the US we still have a shitload of goverment (and EU) regulations about almost everyhing that relates to the so-called free market and property rights and stuff like that.

>watching porn

why do you think all swedebros would move to the US if we could?
It's fucking depressing here

I'd assume due to their current immigration fiasco, which I don't think is related to the Nordic Model's problems itself but their problems with those migrants not contributing to the 'nation-pool' in addition to them just being shitty people

When did it all go wrong for you America? I get Cambridge Analytica did a number on Republicans through social media.... But is that all it took for you half your country to be this brazenly oblivious to the corruption around you? With a mere 2 MILLION investment, CA fucked you so hard you forgot who the good guys were. Trump has his entire base convinced the CIA/FBI are "deep state" all while nodding his head to fucking BRIETBART and FOX. I get the majority by 3 million still voted against this clown, but those odds are too damn close.

If someone had asked me how much it would have took in psyops to fuck over America against their own interests back when Obama was in office, I'd have laughed at anything less than a few billion. But 2 million? DAMN SON

because the model depends on a unified social cohesion and strong work ethic not found in the "diversity" of the US.
To put it more bluntly we got niggers and spics that would fuck up the system and the Nordic countries didn't for awhile. Though now under the flood of refugees you see how their system is cracking apart.

northern europe as it stands is complete and utter failure that does exactly as the main stream media leads them to do. retards here for some reason do not want to give up watching (((news))) or (((headlines))) in general

It's also fractured politics that are to blame. The welfare state peaked in "consensus Finland" where internal politics were boring, predictable and uneventful. It survived even the economical depression of 90s. People mostly felt that they were in harmony with state and state was in harmony with them. Then comes the 21st century and things begin to polarize when globalization, EU-policies, immigration issues and identity politics hit hard. Finland didn't feel so perfectly comfy for almost every Finn anymore. Many people - especially young - don't either love their fatherland or feel incentive to contribute to it anymore, thus underarchieving or completely succumbing to laziness and exploiting system. There is still relatively big social cohesion and societal trust, but just small cracks are making slow but steady eroding impact to system's sustainability.

Salty kraut is salty. Learn from altruistic Germany, kids. Enjoy your rapefugees.

A russian shill being paid to sow discord into the current targeted country (America) would say the same thing. Now why is it you,a citizen of America, share the same views as a shill being paid to undermine your country? :thinking:

Very interesting...I thought people would generally be against the idea of the Nordic Model here, but it turns out that generally you guys just have a problem with it being implemented elsewhere because of its incompatability.

I'm satisfied now, but if anyone else would like to continue adding in more insight, thats fine w me.

The Nordic Model works as long as the countries only have Nordic people in them. Once no longer completely homogenous as before, the high-trust society dissapears and the invaders start draining resources while contributing nothing.