Oneitis says "user there was never anything between us and never will be"

I don't want to force her, I just want to be with her. And I want to make her want me. What's bad about that? I'm just looking for a way to make us both happy. With each other.

But I'm not talking about her. You said in your post that she isn't even pretty. To think this about someone you claim to have romantic interest in, suggests that you're not actually that interested.

Be honest, are you actually just really lonely?

>You said in your post that she isn't even pretty. To think this about someone you claim to have romantic interest in, suggests that you're not actually that interested.
Again, I said that when considering it in an objective way, i.e. how I saw her before I fell in love with her. Because I fell in love with her personality and with that I also fell in love with her looks. That's how it works. Now I still find her very attractive even if I fully realize that she's not supermodel tier attractive, or not even as attractive as some other girls out there. But to ME she is and I'm totally into her. I find her sexy and all.

>Be honest, are you actually just really lonely?
Actually, I'm not. I'm totally okay with being alone and doing things alone. She the only girl I genuinely want, but not because I need her, but because I want her. I don't really feel the need to pursue other women. I hardly have time for it these days anyway.

>Is there a way to somehow salvage this and get her back? I'm willing to do anything

there isn't. and its worse than that, there's actually no way for you to be able to learn this, without going through it. there's no shortcut. there's no advice that will win her back or will make you suddenly get over it. that's the nature of grief.

watch the movie swingers, wallow around for a little bit. but know, there's absolutely nothing you can do, and everytime you reach out to her when you are still emotionally attached to her, it will get worse for you. you can only cut her out of your life and start healing.

here's a david cross bit, which documents a heart break of his. thought it was pretty apt during my last big breakup. hang in there dude.
youtube.com/watch?v=58Rk7BJCSdA

Shit, user. I just watched Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind and it was surprisingly similar to my experience with her. Except... well it ends with them getting back together again.

Because you know, I just wish she talked to me when she had issues with me or whatever. All of it could've been worked out and we could be a loving couple right now instead.

>I suppose all the good stuff between us was because she was basically treating me as him
Yeah that happens. She wasn't ready for a relationship. She's still a shitty person for doing that though.

>2 months in, and it almost felt like she has feelings for me again as evidenced by few things....etc.
I think she just wants you as a friend. She might have been conflicted though, since she isn't dating anyone else. I honestly don't think it's worth pursuing though. She knows you'll go back to her, and there's a good chance she'll just use you again. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the simplest one is that she really just uses you as a crutch between relationships, and that she's made up her mind about you.

In any case that's the past - at this point there really isn't anything you can do to win her back. I'd be much healthier for you to move on, and realize that it probably wasn't the healthiest thing after the breakup. Sorry user, I know it feels bad.

>All of it could've been worked out and we could be a loving couple right now instead.
sadly, this is the way things work. you can't erase the past.

sure. one advantage you have right now is that you're going to identify with art in ways you've never done before.

try gaspar noe's love, blue is the warmest color, zulawski's possession, von triers antichrist, malick's to the wonder, if you're looking for some other films that get heart break. some /mu/ chart probably has some good albums along the same lines.

we've all been there. good luck man.

(also: consider that, even though jim carey and kate winslet end up together at the end of that movie, they both have all those memories erased. maybe it works out for them the second time. but why would it? they've learned nothing, and they probably are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes. its better to move on)

>not because I need her, but because I want her.

You can't have her, as she doesn't want you. Any attempt at forcing her to change her mind will only make her resent you more.

You cannot win this. She is not interested in you in a romantic sense, so you can either accept this and enjoy your friendship with her, or end the relationship entirely.

>she's made up her mind about you
I think she has, and that's what kills me the most. Because I'd do literally anything to change her perception of me. To not put me in that "we can't be together" bag.

God damn I'm so hopeless. I feel pathetic because I'm still trying to get her while being fully aware that it's never going to happen. She was the best girl I met in my life though. I've never connected with anyone that well.

I don't want to watch any more heartbreaking movies. I already had hard time making it through Eternal Sunshine. First movie that almost made me cry in ages.

>they probably are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes
They do learn what they didn't like in each other though. I know that I wouldn't repeat the same mistakes if I was given a second chance. I'm vastly different to who I was when I first met her. She is too.

>Any attempt at forcing her to change her mind will only make her resent you more.
I know. But that's why I'm hoping there's a way to somehow make it natural. I don't know how. Part of me still hopes that maybe she could just suddenly think "shit, user has changed for the better, maybe I could give it another shot, he has so many good qualities after all and things were good before too". I really do want to become better for her.

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>none of these replies are just "no"
No.

And being a whiner over it will only push her further.

have some empathy, asshole. we're all saying "no" but helping OP through it.

> Because I'd do literally anything to change her perception of me.
I've been there, that attitude is ultimately dangerous because you'll never move on. Rather think what you can learn from this to not fuck up your next relationship.
>"we can't be together" bag.
Sadly, that bag is one that's hard to escape. I think being around her too much will simply make you suffer. You should be friendly with her but not hang out too much, until you're fully over her. And she's not unique, user. There are other women out there for you.

>I'm vastly different to who I was when I first met her. She is too.
Are you just saying this? Or is it demonstrable? In any case, it's quite hard to prove such a thing to someone who's already put you into said bag. Going after her too desperately doesn't really work either - just makes you look bad.

Quit cold turkey or don't bother. Making excuses and substitutes leads to falling into the same problems in different scenarios.

>And she's not unique, user
Everyone keeps telling me that, but I have a number of reasons why I think she actually is unique. The worst thing about it is that I've had girlfriends before, and those girls were actually NOT unique, therefore I could get over them relatively quickly. Then I met this girl and it all changed.

>Are you just saying this? Or is it demonstrable?
I really am. I don't really know how to prove it or demonstrate it but half a year changes you. Suffering does too.

When we met I was just a lonely student on his last year. I was sad all the time and looking for an fwb relation with ANY girl just to not be so goddamn lonely. Now I'm no longer a student, I'm no longer lonely, and I don't have any sort of urgency to be with a woman or be in a relationship in general. I do want to be with her though, but that's because I want her, not because I need her. I really only want to be with her because I genuinely think she's special and interesting, beyond just a pretty face and good sex. I told her that a number of times.

Besides, my attitude towards everything, especially relations with other people has changed. I don't want to manipulate or play fucking games with anyone anymore, nor partake in these. If I have a problem with someone, I just want to talk it over and solve the problem, not play some silent treatment, however I expect the same from the other person.

Either way, I've been doing things for my own self and making myself happy without other people. It's a good thing, she taught me that actually. Also I've been through some messy situations, but having pulled through has actually given me confidence that I could react properly in those situations. Before, I was actually kinda scared I'd act like a pussy, but I didn't.

I just don't know how to demonstrate any of that to her.

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One more thing, actually when I hopelessly just asked her to block me everywhere, her response was... "I don't feel the need to do that, user". Every time I'd just hopelessly end the conversation recently she'd actually chat for just a little while and end it again. When I asked her if we're ever going to have a proper conversation she said "I doubt it".

Then I told her about some events in my life and she seems to have gotten mad, so I snapped and straight up told her I considered her different and better but she turned out the same as other girls... Plus I told her how I'm tired of all the manipulating and games and I just want pure honesty.

Next day I recovered (as always...) and asked her if there's no way we could just meet and talk.
>"Oh user, I actually thought about suggesting that"

What the fuck do I make of this?

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The only way to make it natural would be for her to naturally want to be with you, which she has made clear isn't the case.

You need to respect her wishes. She has been up front with you and very honest, explaining that she does not see you in a romantic sense and never will. There's more to building a romantic relationship with somebody than just liking them or admiring them - it's clear from what she said to you that the spark just isn't there now.

For those men who complain about women ghosting, or being vague about their intentions, this is the perfect example of why they are reluctant to be up front. Most guys think there is something they can do to try and change their mind, which not only undermines your ability to make a decision, but also suggests that you're pliable enough to have your mind changed just by a few niceties.

I know. It's just that... Is there really no way to somehow make it happen naturally? To do something that could change her mind? All that considering that she did like me a lot back in the day and considered me romantically.

Because to be honest, I still get the feeling that the spark was there, but for some reason she just kept convincing herself that I'm no good for her.

Because you're putting the pressure on her to make the relevant decisions that will benefit you, rather than taking control yourself.

She has no issue being just friends with you. She has been honest about her intentions, but it is you who has the problem. You are the one pushing this narrative that she doesn't want to be part of. Therefore, the responsibility of stopping communication falls on you, not her.

No. Because if she naturally wanted to be with you in a romantic sense, it would have happened, you know, naturally, without you being conscious of what you were both doing to influence that.

When I met my partner, there was absolutely nothing in the world that could have put me off. I loved spending time with him, I had an amazing spark with him and even years later, I still have the same spark and deep connection. If I didn't have this (and I've been in relationships before when I haven't) then there is absolutely no way of this being encouraged. It's a strange thing that is either there, or not, and I don't think I've ever been in a position where somebody has changed my mind about how I feel. It's not something you can change, at least not healthily or in the long term, and if that spark isn't there (or has gone), there's no getting it back.

> Is there really no way to somehow make it happen naturally?
no. there's no negotiating to be done. let go.

>know that
See, guys? This is why I didn't give him sympathy. This is why I don't empathize with him. 'No means no,' until this fucking queer is involved apparently; then no is extremely negotiable and a suggestion at best, it seems.

Give her fucking space. Okay? You want there to be hope? You want a chance? Fuck clean off and give her space. In fact, ghost her this very goddam minute. Put her out of your mind. Pleasantries if you have to, necessary conversations when you must, and keep to your P's and Q's and be a ghost otherwise.

What about 'no' do you fail to understand appropriately, son? What about 'it will never work' do you believe to be somehow malleable enough that you can just adopt some three-stage plan tomorrow and have your dick wet by Wednesday?
Leave off. Leave her alone. Maybe-- JUST MAYBE-- she'll have valued something in you and will realize that she might be able to talk to you about it or something. I don't know.
But man, fucking give this act a rest.

She's one chick. You're not even 30. Just go. Move on.
If you can't develop the skill to move on you're going to struggle a lot with far greater concepts than vagina. Even if it's just 'your best attempt,' make that attempt instead of whatever this is. Dwelling on her, talking to strangers about her and insisting that 'never was and never will be' is somehow up for debate is just reinforcing the negativity in your patterns that keep you from moving on.

Make your bed. Go for a jog. Change an eating habit. Choose to read instead of youtube or vidya. But whatever you do, don't coddle yourself into thinking that bitching on Jow Forums is even of remote help, no matter who's """sympathizing""" with you.

You need help, that's for certain-- but you need it from yourself, not us. You've suffered no tragedy here; you've just led yourself into a trap and now you're sad about it.

Spare yourself the suffering. Start now, or lament it tomorrow.

Not exactly. When she was still mad she told me she doesn't want people like me around her in her life and doesn't see me in her future. So given this I asked her to block me.

Besides, I actually wanted that because I know how my shitty fucking brain works and how I'd just keep trying to talk to her and not be able to let go. So her blocking me would be ideal because I'd have no way to ever reach out.

But the spark is and was there. This is the main issue I keep having. It's like the spark was there but her conscious self didn't want anything closer. It's evidenced by all the times we'd meet. We always talked for hours, had a deeper connection, could talk about literally anything, trusted each other and always smiled when together. Every time we'd meet she'd compliment me and want to cuddle. And all that was post-breakup actually.

So I feel like there still is a spark. The chemistry.

>Give her fucking space. Okay? You want there to be hope? You want a chance? Fuck clean off and give her space. In fact, ghost her this very goddam minute. Put her out of your mind. Pleasantries if you have to, necessary conversations when you must, and keep to your P's and Q's and be a ghost otherwise.
I did not talk to her at all for two months. All that gave us was her getting overly angry at me for no particular reason.

I've done a lot over these two months. I focused on my university stuff and so on. Nothing has helped. I just can't move on so easily from someone like her. Any other girl, I could do it, but just not her.

>but her conscious self didn't want anything closer

Exactly. This is it in a nutshell. You've identified this yourself, so stop trying to change her. She's intelligent enough to know herself and she knows that she doesn't want a romantic relationship with you.

Okay, but if that's the case, then it must be stemming from some particular things she doesn't like about me, and those things can be fixed, right?

Because if it was just the "spark", then I suppose all would be lost because it's either there or it isn't. But if you consciously don't want someone, it's because there are reasons.

In fact, when I asked her about it, she told me that I treated women like shit and this is why she didn't think it could work out between us. She never actually mentioned it before sadly, because I could just explain to her that I never treated women like shit, in fact quite the opposite. And I did explain it to her now. When it might just be too late.

Regardless of what she does, or doesn't like about you, she has clearly stated that she does want to have a romantic relationship with you. She doesn't owe you an explanation, she has done all she morally has to do by making her intentions clear.

You need to accept, first and foremost, that she does not want a relationship with you. Nothing you can do will change this. It seems like from the beginning she had concerns about you, but has now definitely reached the point where she doesn't want to consider anything with you.

It's more likely that she has another love interest or has had another love interest which made her realise just how unsuitable you were. It's even likely that you have perhaps misinterpreted her previous actions and perceived it as being deeper than it actually was.

>oneitis says "user there was never anything between us and never will be"

She has not only stated that there will never be anything between you, but has also said there was never anything there. That's a pretty clear indication of her feelings.

>Then I met this girl and it all changed.
That's fair, but there's no reason for her to believe that you feel this way instead of just being desperate. And there will be other girls user, believe me. But first you need to get over this one. Don't pull what she did to you and get into another relationship before you're ready - you'll be doing the new one a disservice.

>I just don't know how to demonstrate any of that to her.
It sounds like you've really put thought and effort into changing, and that's great. Hopefully your next gf will reap the benefits. As far as demonstrating it to this girl, well there's always a small chance but do you really want to try for that, instead of doing what's best for you? Even if you prove this to her, it's likely she won't have any affection for you anymore. Feelings aren't logical like that.

The other guy said it best, namely >Because you're putting the pressure on her to make the relevant decisions that will benefit you

> we're ever going to have a proper conversation she said "I doubt it".
She's basically saying you can be friends with her or leave it be. She doesn't want to deal with the relationship stuff anymore, and that's totally reasonable for her to say.

> What the fuck do I make of this?
Talk to her then. Make sure you don't come off as too clingy, but definitely tell her what you've told us, albeit in a more digestible fashion. If anything, it'll help you get some closure. Don't be surprised if she just tells you that she doesn't have feelings anymore - in that case don't take it too badly, you can't change how she feels even if she knows you're a good person now.

Which I have trouble understanding because of her actions. I described them All that time, despite claiming no interest in me she was acting as if she had interest. Which leads me to hope that maybe she doesn't actually think that because she may say that only because she's angry? Actions speak louder than words, right?

But yeah, she probably has someone else right now and it makes me feel terrible desu

there's nothing you can change. you're coming off as an obsessive creep. its gross, and girls can smell it.

letting go is all you can do. don't fight the advice in the thread, just read it and move on.

I read it all OP. She never felt about you the same as you felt about her. Ever. She has told you straight up and coming up with inventive rational arguments cannot convince her to feel something she doesn't feel.

Which parts should I tell her and how? I need hand holding through this to not fuck that up.

And yeah, I do want her still. I believe that everything that happened between me and her was a good lesson and in fact it has made me into a better person. She has made me better. That's why I still feel like she's something good in my life. She makes me feel good and there's this internal feeling that still pushes me to pursue her.

She doesn't like you the same OP. You can obsess all you want.

>I want her still
>made ME better
>good in MY life
>makes ME feel good
>ME to pursue

These are all things YOU feel and frankly the HER you talk about could be anybody or anything.

To add to this -

>>invited me for dinner she made
>>said "user I really like you"
>>asked "user why did I even friendzone you?"
>>brought up things about how we first met
>>asked me to call some other guy to pretend to be a jealous boyfriend to scare him off
>>almost called me when she was in danger

None of these things suggest she is interested or had feelings for you. They suggest that she sees you as a beta orbiter, who is there to clear up the shit she causes for herself. You're safe, you're always there, and she's getting gratification from speaking to you like shit when you get too confident with her.

>asked "user why did I even friendzone you?"

That one is particular cruel, and just proves my point above. She has no respect for you, and when you get to the point where you're confident enough to admit your feelings, it's like she's getting off on the idea of knocking you back down. This is classic beta orbiter behaviour and although she probably enjoyed it in the beginning, she is probably starting to realise how heartless it actually is, and is now trying to absolve herself of the guilt of how she behaved and treated you.

You could try hanging around for another ten years while she cycles through several bad decisions, before miraculously realising (once she gets to 30) that she has actually loved you all along and you've always been the one, just in time for you to marry her, make an honest woman out of her and put a baby in her.

Note: I'm not criticising her in all this as I don't know her, I'm just saying what it looks like from an unbiased point of view.

Are you saying there's absolutely no way this is an indication of her having feelings for me?

She once even said I'm her other quarter as opposed to other half.

Don't go into it thinking it's going to get her back. The only reason I suggested talking to her was to give you two closure.

Just tell her about how she's helped you become a better person, how you realize the mistakes/misunderstandings in the past, and most importantly that your attitude towards relationships has changed for the best. Don't guilt trip her or imply that she's the only one for you or something like that. Just help her understand where you're coming from. Then ask for her to clarify how she feels about you. Hopefully she's not bad at communication and helps you understand how she feels.

If she's with someone else though, it's unlikely you'll get a decent response on her part - that's reasonable. Just tell her that you'd like to be friends but that you need some time to get over things. After that you can decide if you want to keep her as a friend or just move on if it's too painful.

> like she's getting off on the idea of knocking you back down.
Yeah as I said in the start, there's a chance she's like this. That said we can give OP the benefit of the doubt and hope that she's not. In either case, he should really try to get over her.

>she has actually loved you all along and you've always been the one, just in time for you to marry her,
Doesn't seem like that's the dynamic here. More like he was her rebound and it didn't work out between them, and she wants to keep him around as a friend.

True but perhaps she could also have realized how she changed me for the better?

Do you not see how offensive and disrespectful that is? Why would you want to be in a relationship with somebody who values you so little?

dude who cares what she said then, she doesn't want you now. it doesn't matter if she wanted you in the past or not. none of that matters.

let it go..

That won't make her more attracted or wanting a relationship though. It's a good thing to bond over as friends, but you can't change the way she thinks about you on an emotional level. Only she can do that.

The only case this would work was if there was some huge misunderstanding that gets cleared up. That's not really the case here, and she seems to have moved on.

You're an idiot. There is no future to built with this girl. Just grieve out your loss and move on.

again with the ME shit. Hell, planets change their orbit when near other planets but it doesn't mean there is love or intent there. But lets say she knows you changed for the better what does that have to do with loving you, ever?

Well I already texted her all that. After that she decided to propose the meeting

Whatever reason there was for her deciding against being with me goes away. It's like dating a different person then

obsessive men like you OP scare the hell out of me. note to any females, a protective order isn't worth the paper its written on, these guys ignore that too

WTF, no it isn't. Its YOU she doesn't want, whatever version

definitely don't do this

user this sounds very very much like a clean break - you need to force yourself to stop trying to vie for her and do something else with your life

If my oneitis said this to me it'd set me free, it is exactly what I would need to hear to get over her. Yet our conversations dead ended and we just stopped talking, and although I think the signs are clear, since the words were never uttered I cannot move on. You should feel lucky that you know there's no chance.

>Is there a way to somehow salvage this and get her back? I'm willing to do anything
No.
>start over with her
No.
>have her give me a clean slate
No.
>and a shot
Never happen.
>how to convince her to this
You can't.
>We do have a history of things being wonderful between us
Probably not so memorable on her end.

As everyone else in this thread has said (I assume, because even though I've not read it, this is such a bog standard situation I know the right advice has been given repeatedly), you need to move the fuck on and find someone new. Meet new people. Make new friends. Meet new women. Go out on dates. Oneitis is only a problem as long as you actually permit that one woman to be the sole woman in your field of view.

Hey OP, I've gone through similar experiences and emotions as you and I just want to say you're not alone. Even this user feels empathy for you and cares about what you're going through. It can be really hard to move on from someone that you feel is a one of a kind person, but I know for a fact that given the amount of people in the world, the odds are in your favor for you experiencing happiness again. It'll happen a lot sooner than you think if you focus on getting over this one girl, no matter how painful or hopeless of an effort it may seem.

You seem like a really caring guy, so if you actually have a girl who's loyal to you, you seem like the type of guy who would make the most out of a relationship and build it properly.

Sometimes life throws you punches you can't fight. You need to be able to understand when you can't control something and when you can. It's part of growing up. Everyone has to do it, no matter their age, no matter their challenge level. Everyone is getting better at this skill all the time. It's an inseparable part of the human experience. The better you get at rolling with unavoidable punches, the faster you move towards a more broadly defined happiness. It's part of life.

Maybe you should look into stoic philosophy to help you harness this strength. Like The Meditations or The Enchiridion. That's some serious advice I like to give people in really tough positions like yours, whether or not it's a break-up, a death, or a rejection/loss of any kind. Dealing with stuff like this is really what makes life great in the end.

I care and hope for your future, OP.