How do we stop so many young...

How do we stop so many young, otherwise decent males from becoming bitter misogynists simply because they don't know how to talk to women?

Is this a problem with the way society raises young boys? I assume it's a bit selection bias but the amount of bitterness and hate towards women by young males seems to be increasing.

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It's called natural selection

it's a problem with how we raise the girls

If we talk to women that'd be verbal rape and we'll go to jail and get raped by big black men. It's safer to stay at home and watch anime.

bitter young male here

the issue is that the values we are teaching young men are setting them up to fail in modern society.

either society needs to go back, or the messages we send young men need to be updated.

many young men like myself are furious that we work nine to five jobs, save money, consider one night stands to be distasteful and want girlfriends who are commited.
All we get are outpaced by the "fast money" seekers, the consumerist media savy niggers who sleep with every woman at any chance they get.
Our girlfriends are unfaithful, are supported by society in being unfaithful, we are blamed for not being good boyfriends and by the time women are in their mid 20's with no money and all their petals scattered into the wind there will be nothing left for us

I left the entire western world because of this, because it's a huge deal

>How do we stop so many young, otherwise decent males from becoming bitter misogynists simply because they don't know how to talk to women?

Have you considered actually learning why they are bitter instead? You seriously believe it's because they don't know how to talk to women?

It is one of the main reasons though. Being unsuccessful around females, and that behind at not knowing how to talk to them.

This is not asking for advice, this is baiting for arguments. Please, this is not the debate club.

its the fault of the worthless single mothers that have pumped their male children full of prescription drugs and allowed a chemical castration. when the boys finally have to leave mothers nest and detox they have no coping skills whatsoever

well that's what I'm saying here the lack of success is because how we are told to behave simply isn't getting results

It would be like telling students "hit the ball with the golf club into the hole and you win"
then one of them just picks up the ball and throws it, and you give them the trophy

the winner is happy because he won
but the loosers are unhappy because
A.they see the victory as unfair
b. they do not wish to participate in a ball throwing contest at all, whether they win or not

I love how it's the fault of girls, mothers, society in general, etc. but the possibility that maybe, just maybe you are just mistaken and you are just not playing the game right is not taken into account.

Blame everybody but yourself, that's the road to success baby!

The winner takes it all
The loser has to fall
Beside the victory
Thats a destiny

Yeah, because it's entirely impossible the "game" is a broken mess.

If I grab a chess piece and use it to play darts, is the game broken or am I just playing it wrong?

>Is this a problem with the way society raises young boys?
short answer: yes
long answer: >be raised by an 18 year old kid that has no idea about life and what it means to care about a kid, but ready enough to spread her legs to get fucked
>don't even know who's fucking kid you are having, need court and paternity test to find out
>women runs off with the next best fucker who happens to be an abusive asshole >women only divorces fucker 9 years later after its completely unbearable
>be then raised by single mother with a fucking arts degree.

if you witness female weakness in that amount i've seen, you'd hate women too.

>not playing the game right

well that actually goes to the heart of the issue, "winning" requires us to abandon our personal principles

it's not that we cant do what it takes, we are consciously choosing not to.
you could critisize us for not wanting to win, and we would critisize society for framing an immoral game

take a man who impregnates a sleeping/passed out woman
society says "what a horrible thing to do!"
but if the woman keeps her mouth shut about it and dates him because it's better than beign a single mom, society says "what a committed family"

because society lacks the power to enforce social norms against the individual, people will win by any means available to them
....thus creating an immoral game

If hitting each other with sticks is a game, am I wrong for not wanting to play/

Wait, so in your mind a rapist with a frightened captive is a winner?

Please, do the world a favor and don't play the game with us. I wholeheartedly support your decision to keep to the sidelines.

>if you witness female weakness in that amount i've seen, you'd hate women too.

You are not going to be dating your mom. If you really think of yourself as the worst qualities of men, of people from your country, of any other demographic you are a part off, then that's on you.

The reason so many men are bitter is their own entitlement. That's all it boils down to. Entitlement also fuels many of these women you all hate so much. The irony is you don't see it in yourselves, but it's there in just as large a capacity.

Try taking responsibility for your lives rather than focusing on blaming the opposite sex for your problems.

you misunderstand me

my point is that for many men, their objectives relating to women (mainly sex) can be met more easily if they ignore social expectations and established western morals

I wouldn't consider raping a woman and her beign my captive as a "win" in any sense, but the reality is that there are many men who would.
So I'm bitter the women I like get drugged up, pregnant, raped and run out on
and furious I am not given the power in society to stop other men who do this

in the past men who raped women were beaten by a mob, society could shun unfaithful partners, men were imprisoned. but today I would go to jail for beating a rapist, drugs are accepted as a norm and if my partner is unfaithful the presumption is that I was a fool for dating her or somehow deserved it

There is no game. There is no conspiracy among females to keep people like you down.

There is a chance you're a decent person. In fact I'd say you likely are, but you're likely also a BORING person. People (NOT FEMALES) like fun and interesting people. Even in your case you like interesting, fun girls. There are thousands of boring girls you don't even give a second look.

There is an argument to be made how celeb worship, information and dating sites have altered the dating landscape, but you will have to realize this applies to both men and women, and stop believing women all act the same. Would you talk about how, say, germsns act in broad strokes down to preferences and dreams? You wouldn't. Now consider there are 83 million Germans and roughly 3,5 >B

>in the past men who raped women were beaten by a mob, society could shun unfaithful partners, men were imprisoned.

...

Yeah, women had is much better before (sarcasm!).

Dude, the world is way nicer now than it ever was. If anything, you have way more power today than what you would have had in any other time period. Don't play the victim.

well there is an element of that to be sure

as an upstanding christian man I expect that if I follow the norms of society and embody virtue, women will appreciate that and ultimately I will find a partner.

Women think being attractive entitles them to sleep with a large number of men, shun family commitments and behave irresponsibly

our entitlement comes from tradition and ethics, but it seems women's entitlement comes from being physically attractive consumerists

Both are entitlement just the same. And actually in the female case it's not really entitlement since people will really sleep with them over that.

I’m 28 and VERY bitter toward women. I am polite and respectful. But I do not have nice feelings toward them. Particularly sluts. I HATE sluts.

Ironically, I just got my first girlfriend last year (she does not believe in promiscuity). She was in total shock when she found out she was my first. She said “you are far too good of a man to never have had these experiences before”.

I just seriously hate sluts

>our entitlement comes from tradition and ethics

God won't give you pussy. And your traditional ethics includes stoning gay people, doing spells to know if your wife is cheating on you, and plenty of other cute practices.

You sir are the definition of entlitlement, thinking you are better and as such deserve better.

women's place in society was often historically poor, which is obviously driving them to seek change.
Men understand this.

but their alternative is unattractive to men, and as a result men with traditional values are begin alienated.
that's part of social change.

But the issue is that women's values are changing at a much greater pace than that of men's, leaving a significant section of both unable to find partners at all "backwards men" and "hysterical feminists"

there are few forces left in society to constrain society from polarizing, some people will remain uber-conservative, and many will become uber-liberal

>but their alternative is unattractive to men, and as a result men with traditional values are begin alienated.

Wait, so the "alternative" (giving women a better place in society, as you admit they had a shit deal before) is unattractive to men with traditional values. Is that what you are saying?

Because in your version of events, men with traditional values are the problem. Is that what you meant? Because that's what you are saying.

Not him.

But the problem is sluts

Do you think it's fair that women are afraid of you because you could be a rapist? The way the actions of other men make you look bad when you didn't do anything wrong... would you like to change that?

Then don't do the same to women, genius. You get what you give.

I am a 23 year old man with a university education, a noble family, and IQ of more than 100, am churchgoing and moral.
I am the definition of entitled, and I don't shy away from that.

It's not just that I (and we) think we are better, we think we are DOING better- for our partners and our society.
In the past our service to society was respected by the community, and appreciated by women.

but it seems like society has bitten the hand that feeds it, and women prefer men who spend a third of the day in gym, a third working, and a third drinking beer and whoring.

It's a false dichotomy, womens place has been poor; but there are ,many avenues to improving the place of women in society.
We feel that the avenue many are choosing to better their lives is at the expense of ours, and of the community as a whole.

education, voting rights, healthcare, labor reforms
these improved the life of BOTH women and society.

but the laxening of drug laws, leniency to women in courts of law, de-stigmatisation of infidelity and promiscuity by women, childless families, the idealization of race-mixing
these benefited women but hurt society

>women are afraid of you because you could be a rapist? The
Doesn't it add a little to sexual excitement?..

From an utilitarian point of view a person who works is just as useful to society as you if he spends the time you do at church wanking or something else

>am churchgoing and moral
You are not getting pussy
Women like to take MDMA and then to dance to good music and fuck somebody, preferably someone who is confident, good-looking and can provide some drugs
And you say churchgoing... Ha

applying a utilitarian point of view to society is a foolish pursuit, as society has no inate goal

the only objective aim is service to god, which is why I spend my time in church and not jerking off to cartoon characters

>childless families, the idealization of race-mixing

Ok, I wish you were just trolling. I won't fix what's wrong with you on Jow Forums. Hope you can get out of this before bad company drags you down. I really hope you don't stumble unto people that will validate this crap.

Sorry, you are beyond my reach.

That’s why you have to build TRUST and LOVE before having sex.

But in society it’s seen as totally acceptable for girls to just spread their legs and take tons of random dicks.

For some women, yes. I was talking in broad strokes, though. I've experienced it myself and talked to enough guys to know it happens, women reacting you us in the street just because we are dudes walking behind them. It feels like crap, but as I said, if I did the same to women and generalized the crap out of them I'd be as bad as the assholes.

>But in society it’s seen as totally acceptable for girls to just spread their legs and take tons of random dicks.

I think you are missing the point. The thing is to stop generalization, I don't care if you get on your high horse to moralize about purity.

>Women like to take MDMA and then to dance to good music and fuck somebody
you are dead right, and I don't like those women at all

unfortunately there are more and more of them by the day, hence my bitterness

families without children are a burden on society when they become elderly, an increasing problem as our lifespans increase.
that's just a fact, you can see it in any society with low birthrates like germany or japan

race-mixing gives individuals a much greater choice of potential partners, but it introduces into society a great many people who will violate our basic values, and makes it hard to separate people who have our values and those who don't.
this is the reason so many groups with separate moral codes distinguish themselves clearly like Sikhs or the Amish

this

>hence my bitterness
Have you ever tried?.. Try it actually, maybe then you'll understand

What happened is that weak men usually made it 70 years ago. They could work in the factory, they could have an average qt girlfriend, group of friends because of the other two, etc, etc. That is not the case anymore. You need a reasonable IQ, reasonable looks, reasonable social intelligence, in this day and age, which is good and all, but what happens to those men who are low IQ? Bad looking? Fundamentally don't know how to interact and behave around people because of the way they're wired? You see, women are lucky because they can always fall back on their looks and even not so fortunate women in the looks department can still fall back on their vaginas. Men cannot do that shit, so they're fucked. They're massively fucked and no one cares. No one gives a shit about them. Shut up and suffer, you poor excuse wimp of a man, all the way till you die.

Now let's ask a question here, what are they supposed to do? What is there left for them to do? Why is the male/female suicide rate 4:1?

Here is non-US perspective.

We see many arguments being made that the bitter males are "just insecure" or "entitled". These arguments are of course circular reasoning. It is so, because every human has different values.

What people need to understand is that there is no absolute moral (both in a rational and, because of the lack of religion, in a practical sense too).

This creates a general mismatch in society fueled by many nuture and nature differences between people.

I am bit bitter myself, because I cannot loose my weight effectively, am short in my country (NL) and whenever I flirt or try to ask a girl out I am not met with simple rejection, but with awkwardness, disgust and sometimes laughter. You have to understand that this also spreads like gossip in my direct environment putting me off even more.

Then, if some woman comes up to me and says "Well you just think you are entitled to sex or relationship" then I want to slap that woman in the face, because that is not at all what I thought.

Due to the hyper individualism, the extremity of our society and the feminine focus nowadays, it creates bitter man who are already struggling with themselves. Boys are not allowed to be boys anymore and that makes them insecure.

(1/2)

I have respect for girls who are not sluts.

But the majority are sluts. It’s VERY hard to know which girls are the nice girls now adays. Even the sweetest and most innocent looking girl could be a massive slut who gets new dick every night. Just go look at tinder. There are so many normal looking girls there who just want to get their pussy filled with dick. It makes it very fucking hard to know who’s actually a Nice girl

>Women like to...

Yes, please, come to Jow Forums to tell us what all women want. Your insight is appreciated, as it would be hard to get to know so many people. It's way better to just assume what women think so I never need to talk to them.

>noble family
>childless families, idealization of race mixing

Yeah, you don't deserve women. You sound like a dickhead prude from the 1800s. How is that attractive in any way? Your entitlement is through the roof.

>There are so many normal looking girls there who just want to get their pussy filled with dick.

Oh, yeah, I wish the world was a caricature, too. That people had faces reflecting their personality, so I can use a picture to guess if we agree or not.

Dude, you are a judgemental guy that has already made his mind about "most women are sluts". You won't give a chance to a decent person if she crossed your path, and your attitude turns decent people away.

cont.

(2/2)

I can compare it with here in Europe that I used to be pretty left wing. Then I disagreed on certain topics like immigration, subsidies and quotas and suddenly I was called a right wing extremist. This only pushed me away, making me more "right wing" than I initially was.

This is the problem. Many people are initially very nuanced and considerate people. I notice it when I visit my rural home town how much better behaved and down to earth the women are there. But back in the city it is all superficial fake crap.

It is not necessarily the mistake of women, but mostly because of the rampant hyper individualism and hedonistic mind set of the west. We are to wealthy and to neurotic (induced by the people trying to reach the top around us and social media) for our own good.

Either we dismantle it, enforce a restrictive culture (like East Asian countries) or continue in a "last days of Rome" mindset. None of these options are attractive to me.

Not him, but not being allowed to generalize for the sake of argument is stupid.

Question for femanons here:

I just want a girl that:
>I am attracted too
>Is loyal
>Is caring
>is reasonable

I would give the same in return to her of course.

If this is too much to ask, we are living in a sad state of affair indeed

Dude, that's the point. Generalizations don't make an argument. If you know you are glossing over the actual details of reality, then you have to understand your argument is weak.

>You won't give a chance to a decent person if she crossed your path

How am I suppose to know if she’s a decent person? On the ask the opposite sex anything threads, all of the girls say they would lie about their sexual history to a man

I have taken MDMA and had sex with half clothed strangers, and I felt bad about it.

I had potentially deprived society of a decent woman, myself the chance of meeting the same girl in a more dignified way, and it felt like I had eaten a bucket of nails.

I have beaten men i bar fights who were rudely cutting in on me when talking to women, but it caused long term disagreements and despite keeping me in the game with the woman saw me making a false police statement that he swung a punch at me first

those things men who win by cheating do, I have done a lot of those things in the past ans it's a chip on my shoulder.
there are girls out there now who I'm not good enough for because I did those things, and unfortunately while I would like to respect women who return to decent lives, as with myself the damage is done.

not only has society damaged women, it's damaged me.
bitterness

>I would give the same in return to her of course.

Words flow easily. Something about your way of conducting yourself shows girls you might not be 100% honest with your offer, or else someone would have taken it already.

The innate goal of society is cohabitation, providing a way for humans to meet other humans and prolong the species and making life easier for everyone involved.
God is by definition subjective, especially the abrahamic personal god you worship

That seems to be more a attachment issue on their side as humans are not capable to infer behavioral patterns of a person after just a couple of dates. Also, it is called intentions for a reason, I was just presenting the most basic building blocks for a healthy relationship and with that healthy male-female relations on this planet. If this is already a debate issue, it is quite sad.

>How am I suppose to know if she’s a decent person?

Same way you'd do with a man. How do you know if a man is decent or not?

>I was just presenting the most basic building blocks for a healthy relationship

But are you being honest? I can offer you the world, but if you can tell I'm full of shit you won't buy.

Not that guy, but that is called building rapport by regularly engaging with a person, which in turn builds respect. Some people see this as entitlement. I see it as civility.

Here's statistical data pertaining to this subject:
youtu.be/8byGFryWQRU
youtu.be/7vqRbScCIPU
youtu.be/4wpca1ZDIRQ
youtu.be/sp_rgqRugho

While some of it should be taken with a grain of salt it pretty much shows what's wrong with today's society, not just men.

If you'd rather have anecdotal evidence of this then I'll simply state that from my experience most women and men alike are completely inexperienced when it comes to sex or relationships by the time they're 18 and some remain that way through out college unless they whore themselves out at parties, because god forbid finding a relationship. Everyone's lonely yet no one reaches out to each other nor do they want to be reached out to, that's the problem, we've traded solidity for short-term pleasure, and then again, what's wrong with that? Everything, but marriages don't work either, the only way to go forward is to completely smash traditionalism and promiscuity into being your bitch and somehow find someone to do it alongside you.

But who would dare to reject the status quo?

At this point it's easier to swallow the blue pill and say that I'll be fine because you're attractive and things will work out than to keep going to further understand the problem and find a solution which is sustainable for western society.

True, but that is why I said INTENTIONS. I was not about individuals, with which you engage and build rapport with, but a about a general mindset or perspective when it comes to the basic building blocks of relationships. Which should be semi-absolute and enforced by social convention for its social and pragmatic value.

>Some people see this as entitlement. I see it as civility.

Have you ever snapped at a guy for not giving you the time of day?

Because most people I've seen treat male and female attention differently. Do you treat it as the same? Do you get mad when guys reject you and decide not to spend time with you the same way you do when girl reject you?

I feel you bro, hold your ground

>Yeah, you don't deserve women
you might think that, and an increasing number of women think that
but being the majority has never made anyone right

I do deserve success in society, because I am serving society.
If those who serve society arn't successful they stop serving and society collapses

men are pushed into flashy lifestyles, whoring and dumping their wives and abandoning their children, spending time and money on drugs.
then society suffers, the ecconomy goes backwards, there is a lack of order, unity, and lawfullness

then men are forced to steal, they start to rape women wantonly, they form gangs
see; what is happening to the west

White christian men are holding the line, we are the police, we are the courts, we are the church, we give to charity instead of exploit the needy, we serve in the army, we look for women who will be good to our children
1800's stuff right

>Generalizations don't make an argument
Dempends on the context.
>most hedge find managers are rich
Well, most hedge fund managers are rich, but certainly not all of them.

>Everyone's lonely yet no one reaches out to each other nor do they want to be reached out to
>Dating apps everywhere
>College parties or communities
>Exchange semesters

wut

>I was not about individuals

You date individuals, brainiac, you don't date demographics. Deal with dating on a human to human basis and stop looking for data. Engage socially instead.

>Dempends on the context.

See my convo with this guy: He also treats dating like it's the statistics class. And he gets the same awful results you do.

If someone treats me without neutral civility (based upon basic social conventions) or, if we are friends, without respect, I will be angry of course. Regardless of sex.

Social relationships are proportional.

I said "rejection", not "insult". Have you never had a guy just not be interested in hanging out with you? Someone that just doesn't want to be your friend or anything?

You're both really dumb.

>Deal with dating on a human to human basis and stop looking for data.
1. We are not talking about individual cases, we are talking on a anthropological (or philosophical) level (also not statistical, which is impossible anyway when talking about qualitative research)
2. If your mindset holds, when can close all alpha studies departments

Did you ever go to a (research) University? You should know this.

anyway entitled user departing

I'm holding out until marriage, if I can't find a wife I'll start an orphenage and if I get the chance I'll plunge the world back in into the 1800s

get mad

Supreme Gentleman: The /thread

Women want that too, but they're not immune to entitlement either. Many believe they deserve it but aren't faithful, or behave unfairly to their partners or are poor communicators, brats, inconsiderate, etc.

I didn't get the chance to go into this earlier when I first brought up the entitlement thing in this thread. That's what I meant when I said many women are driven by entitlement too.

Just as men believe they deserve a good woman but don't possess attractive qualities in the first place (hint: it isn't about how "good" or "nice" you are), there are lots of superficial women out there who don't deserve what they're out here begging for and can't maintain their end of a healthy relationship for shit.

It is true that people are lonelier on average though. We're so connected but most connections aren't meaningful.

There is some hard date about it in the wiki article over loneliness but I can't be arsed going to fetch them.

You really are far gone if you actually believe you're the only ones doing good in society or that being good (or bad) entitles you to anything at all.

Sure, but it depends on the context. I had plenty of girls reject me and I did not take it personally, because of the simple word CONTEXT.

Example:

I meet girl, we go out, I ask for a second date. She thinks I am nice, is grateful that I paid for the dinner, but she is not interested after the first date. She even says she will pay me back the money. I hug her, we go our separate ways. Great.

Second example (this actually happened to a friend of mine in high school):

I meet girl, we hang out a lot and we build rapport (thus expectations of behavior). Over the course of months we become friends and I start to flirt with her, to which she responds. I spend time and money on her and make it quite clear I am interested romantically. After a while I see her with another guy, kissing, and she says she is not interested. I am rightfully furios.

Now you will say "muh she has no obligation to you" or "you should have made it clear". But outside of the US, we dont deny social expectations, the ability to read the situation (unless you are autistic) and the building of rapport. To do otherwise would be sallow and egotistical. Also called "kept on the hook and disregarded when not needed."

Context. Matters.

And how does that make healthy happy families? It's just more sexual promiscuity disguised as being social, none of those people seriously consider their actions and how they'll affect their future, and then when they're 30 they'll realize that all they've been doing is whoring themselves out and the game of catching up begins.

And as I said: >anecdotal.
If you actually want to discredit my position then present empirical evidence that refute the one's I've presented.

I think it's a huge mix of issues from bith sides that make both sexes toxic. One of the major ones is the "treat women like a princess" which means "not like a normal person." It leads to a false notion of what a person is and an unbelievable expectation of the individual. I think it also leads women to a false sense on entitlement.

The other major issue, which is sort of similar to the first one is how we pretend women are still a second class citizen with the rules and regulations such as women being considered a special status when being hired for work or how favored they are in all matter in court. And also how schooling is geared way more towards favoring girls over boys.

My best advice for young men is this. Don't stress finding the "right" women until you're 26 or older. Hey you may find her before then, but realize that the 'apex age for women is 18 - 27 where as for men it is 26 - 35. A man should be imo about 5 years older because at that point you're both on a similar page as to when you'd want children. Just be patient and build up your worth so when you hit your apex you can destroy pussy left and right.

True, but if you are motivated you cannot be lonely. I am lonely myself, but I know for sure that I due to the circumstances I have put myself in.

Yeah, an actual scientific investigation has parameters and rules to make sure it's good and well-done. Ranting online is not really "academic research".

And you are still missing my point: I'm not talking to your demographic, I'm talking to you. I'm telling you that your attitude will affect your chances at dating. I'm telling you that you might blame women, but in reality you are the one not even trying to engage with them as people.

I'm talking to you as a person. Try doing it to girls.

>Sure, but it depends on the context. I had plenty of girls reject me and I did not take it personally, because of the simple word CONTEXT.

I don't need to read your examples. So you know there are different cases, that there are nice people and shitty people. Ok, then what was your point here: We both agree that you need to try to engage with someone to see if they are decent or not. What's the problem? We agree.

>I'm telling you that you might blame women, but in reality you are the one not even trying to engage with them as people.
I never did this. I merely stated my expectations and what I would do in return on an intentions basis. Your reaction seems Pavlovian. Maybe try to get rid of that frustration.

Well, so you are not gonna try anymore. Ok, I gave it my best shot.

Try less generalizing and more actual social engagement for a while and your dating life will improve.

Well for me there was not really a problem. For me there is a problem with people "playing the grey area" as a cop-out or circular reasoning in order to get out of commitment (in any shape or form) and then even have the guts to blame the victim ("you are entitled"). That is what frustrates me, because it is shallow and egotistical. It implies the world revolves around that individual.

>I merely stated my expectations and what I would do in return on an intentions basis.

Yeah, because your question was not loaded at all:

>If this is too much to ask, we are living in a sad state of affair indeed

If you need to ask, then it is too much to ask. Don't try to dismiss me without actually dealing with my arguments. You are implying this hasn't worked for you.

Try to pin it on me if you want, but unlike you I read what you write.

You know sex requires two participants right? Women wouldn't engage in slutty behavior if desperate men weren't lining up to insert themselves in every warm hole.

The main problem is that many young males just have no fucking idea how to date or attract girls.

We're told to be ourselves and our mothers tell us to be in a way that resembles the SON they want, not the MAN a woman wants to fuck.

So when we go into the world and see that being overly nice, treating girls like they're special and being unassertive doesn't work, resentment grows and we start blaming them rather than ourselves.

I'm mostly past this luckily. I still have no idea how to make myself attractive to women but dealing with lots of people due to my job and trying to meet people from other cultures have infused in me a stupidly optimistic outlook that makes me feel a deep love for humanity.

But I could also have turned the other way (indeed I tangled with that a few years ago) and became an incel. But being a happy virgin is better than being a bitter virgin, at least.

Families without children didn’t spend their surplus on their own kids and can use that money to pay their way in old age. The idea that they are a burden might actually be the most retarded thing I have read. They are still working, producing labor that others are the benefit of for the same amount of time.

>For me there is a problem with people "playing the grey area"

What does that mean? I don't understand your post, sorry. All I got is that men are the victims to you, I assume because they don't get dates. But I'm guessing because your post makes it hard to understand your point.

Those are mostly your own interpretations. I am responsible for what I say, not for what you interpret. I never stated I blamed woman. I only expressed my sadness that if the hypothetical situation in which those values were not honoured was true, than that would be sad. You responded quite semantically and aggressively with a rather Pavlovian reaction.

Sweetie, it is going to be okay, you dont have to be so afraid of men. We dont bite.

I have a girlfriend, you moron.

You're on the right track, you'll figure it out.

>our mothers tell us to be in a way that resembles the SON they want, not the MAN a woman wants to fuck
/thread

Okay, well, what I mean is that both females and males (but especially females) apply circular reasoning in order to get out of commitment (in any shape or form) and then even have the guts to blame the victim ("you are entitled"). You have not read my examples on the previous posts about context, but it is important to understand this point. The women that apply these rationalizations use the nature tentative social expectations to get out of some reciprocal form of behavior. It is similar to gas lighting.

>I only expressed my sadness that if the hypothetical situation in which those values were not honoured was true,

So you know that's not true! Ok, then I have to apologize. The way you wrote it made it sound like you had a hard time dating, but that's on me when I read it.

Glad to see you don't agree with the bitter Anons in here, we need more of your positivity on this board. Sorry for the overreaction!

Ok, so WOMEN are mainly the problem, because WOMEN are the ones doing this shitty thing. Mostly doing it, of course. You made sure not to be too generalizing, just generalizing enough.

Dude, come on. At least try to disguise your crappy arguments better.

>I still have no idea how to make myself attractive to women but dealing with lots of people due to my job and trying to meet people from other cultures have infused in me a stupidly optimistic outlook that makes me feel a deep love for humanity.

I had this too, became international consultant, but I became misanthropic (ever tried working in Africa or Asia?). Funnily enough due to that I lost my virginity and had much more dating success.

Sure you do.

Well considering the fact that I am straight makes me biased of course. Ask a bitter woman and it will be the mans fault. The rest of my argument still holds.