Relationship with an older woman

Man, be lucky you had such a beautiful thing. Follow your heart, but be cautious. She sounds like a keeper if she's not already taken.

>lucky you had such a beautiful thing
Knew I was lucky then, but after the time apart, it really sunk in.

I want to make my decision by the end of the week, and hopefully muster enough courage to make the call by then as well.

I know her well enough to pretty much guarantee that my guesses about what she's been doing up until now are probably correct. Even so, I still get a wrenching feeling when I think about the off chance that she did find someone else.

Fortune favors the bold. You can do it man.

how often did you fuck and how was she in the sack

>Unfortunately, she felt like she was preventing me from taking advantage of my youth, so when I finished my undergrad she suggested we part ways.
I mean, at 8-9 years older than you, she kinda was.
>Should I try to get back together with this older woman?
Do you even know if she's still in the same place? People have a weird habit of coming and going in college towns, even if they're not directly connected to the school.

Anyway, my advice is to just ask her out as a "Hey, I'm back in town! Let's get coffee and catch up!" sort of deal.

I mean, for all you know she's with someone else. Possibly another undergrad.

>A big part of the face to face is to catch-up, but it would also be to make my intentions crystal clear. I don't want to miss lead her or anything.
I mean, I think that's admirable to be straightforward, but it's kind of a big bomb to drop on someone after a couple years.

I'd literally just meet up for the sake of meeting up. Talk a bit, talk about how things were, etc. I mean, she's gonna fucking be able to tell; reading younger people is so damn easy it's not even funny, and that's as a man thinking about women. Older women can read younger men so easily it's almost pathetic. So... don't pretend that you're being deceptive or anything just because you're not being painfully blunt. She'll know very well why you're asking to meet up.

I think the age thing was always a bigger deal for her than for me. I had my apprehensions about it to begin with, but everything was quickly outweighed by having someone I could fully trust and who sincerely took an interest in my life.
Like I said for her, her biggest fear about the relationship was that she might be holding me back.

>Do you even know if she's still in the same place?
I still have her cell number. Plus she still works for the same firm, so I can always just call her office.

>Possibly another undergrad
I'm pretty doubtful about that. It was sheer happenstance that started the ball rolling between us. Before that we hardly spoke a word to each other.

Just hearing back from me would be enough to tip her off. Besides, I wouldn't try to force an answer right there and then. I'd rather her take her time and make a thoughtful decision. She knows I can wait.

>Older women can read younger men
It rattled my sometimes how good she was at that, though I could always do it just as well with her.

>Plus she still works for the same firm, so I can always just call her office.
Wow, ballsy.

I don't really think so.
I'd simply call and explain what's up, get her new number, and organize a time to meet.

I wouldn't exactly be calling to profess my undying love on the phone.

I'd be pretty creeped out if a girl I'd not talked to in years started calling me at work.
Though then again, I guess guys do tend to use their office line for affairs instead of their home phone. So who knows. For me, it'd be weird. But you were with this lady so you know what's appropriate.

I could always just use Facebook as well. Point being that there's a ton of ways to get a hold of her. She hasn't fallen off the grid or anything like that.

The work number is more of a last resort, I'd much rather just use her cell. Hell, I still have her landline number. Not sure if she still has it though. I use to make fun of her all the time for having one.

Well, I think you've got a good idea of how to approach this. It's really pretty simple. And, I'll tell you a bit of a secret: Before my parents got married they'd had a period of being out of contact almost identical to what you describe. The "getting back in touch meetup" is really all there is to it; "Hey, it's me, I'm back in town, this time for grad school! Let's get lunch on Friday and catch up!" Lowish pressure, get together and catch up, find out if she's seeing anybody, etc. Otherwise pursue it like you're dating someone for the first time. If she's not seeing anyone and is interested it ought to move pretty quickly.

The main reason I'd be against straight-up saying you wanted her back early off is that, assuming your suspicions are right (that she threw herself into her work after you broke up), she might not be in the "I'm ready to date" mentality. That's why I say treat it a bit like you're dating for the first time again. Even though calling for a meetup is telegraphing that's what you're interested in, there are still social norms; she's not gonna just cut you off midway through asking for a lunch date and say, "Listen, just so we're clear, I'm not interested in dating right now," because that'd be kind of presumptuous.

How did you two even start talking? How can I find my own mummy gf? Also, keep us updated!

damn, i wish i have your problems..
this too, I want older female tsundere that always think high of herself and has higher salary than me..

QUADS OF TRUTH

where?

see

I think I missed it.

op, this is completely unrelated, but I'm an older female dating a younger undergrad as well
I'm 8 years his senior, and we're on a VERY similar path
Everything about this sounds like us

I really care about him, but my age makes me self conscious. He assures me that he doesn't care, but I can't help but feel a little insecure.
Reading you thread, specifically this post, made me feel pretty good

thanks

Christ, you must have been attractive to have a random MILF help you turn your life around. Even my own mother didn't bother talking to me during college.

What did she mean by "taking advantage of your youth"? I really hope she didn't mean sleeping around and parties...

she's already grilling younger meat, retard
she got rid of you because she wanted another young stud to coddle and 'need her'

you don't need her anymore, so why would she want you? I know this type of woman

OP if you're still around I got a question for ya. Was wondering what your stance was on having children with this woman was like. Did either of you ever consider having a family way back when or worry about the possible time constraints due to her being older?

Have some downtime, so I'll post an update.
Work is a bit sporadic right now, so I'll try and periodically check back in on the thread and answer stuff when I can.

I decided to give her a call this morning hoping to catch her before she went off to work, and luckily, I did just that. My call caught her off guard but she seemed pretty pleased about it.

Told her what was up and that I'd likely be back up there as soon as next month to lock down a place to live for when I move back. Here's the kicker though. Before I got the chance to segue into asking about meeting up, she bloody beat me to it. And maybe it was just my imagination, but I swore I heard a little giddiness in her voice.

After that we ended up talking like a couple of schoolgirls for a while. Damn near made each other late for work, so we decided to talk again later tonight to hash out some of the details.

I was biking home in a downpour and wound up with a flat tire. She happened to be driving and recognized me while stopped at a red light, so she offered me a ride back. We just sort of hit it off in the car and kept on talking to each other after that.

She's not a 'mummy gf', I've always seen her as a woman and an equal.
Life isn't a Chinese cartoon and if you go looking for a surrogate mother you'll only find trouble.

Be open and honest with him if you care about him. Sit down and have a talk about your own hopes and fears.

I'd say I'm average look, but probably better looking now than I was when I first met her since I work out regularly.
I'd say it was just luck to run into a decent and have them actually give a shit about me. Helps that we both came from a decently similar background though.

She was worried about her age and thought that I should try and find a younger woman seeing as it might be easier to start a family with one.

Like I said before, she's never given me a reason to distrust her before.

We talked about it when we were together. I honestly wouldn't mind her being the mother to my children, even with the age difference. Even with going into grad school, because of the nature of my work, I could still support her (not that she doesn't have her own pile of money) and a child.
We both wanted children, but I know her. If someone doesn't marry her she'll never have children and just stay married to her job until she dies.

You made it bruh!

Good job m8

Not breaking out the champagne until I know everything is in the clear, gonna see what the talk tonight brings.

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Nicely played! Congratulations! Hope everything turns out for the best with her user

OP dont forget me okay? i am your first reply QwQ muyumuyu

Thanks, but I feel like the only thing I really did was make the call. After that it just sort of carried itself.

Which one were you?

Yeah but you saw what you wanted and went after it. Can’t say the same for others on this board, or most people in life
Put me in the screen cap in the inevitable biopic/hallmark movie starring Nigella Lawson as Older Woman

>you saw what you wanted and went after it
I guess, but it's not like I'm not terrified about the whole thing. Shit, since I talked with her this morning my stomach has been in knots over waiting for tonight. At least when I was at work I had something to keep my mind occupied.

>Nigella Lawson
She looks nowhere near as old as Nigella Lawson.

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>He assures me that he doesn't care
Not OP, but I can assure you, your guy doesn't give a shit. His friends may poke fun at him, and he may even joke along with them, but it's not the sort of thing that gets under a guy's skin. If anything, to a lot of guys, getting with a slightly older woman is kind of an achievement.

Really the most difficult thing is how you handle the age gap and any stigma (whether real or imagined). For a guy, it literally rolls off the back, or gets him to dislike the person talking shit and care for you more. That said, the latter problem, if it generates familial strife, could be a huge problem in the long run.

But nigella Lawson can get it

She probably meant going out to the bar, partying, and doing high-energy physical activities that, even if she's in physical shape enough to do, she's reached a point of maturity where she just isn't interested. The man that sort of reverse spring-autumn romance tends to defer to the woman a lot, and so isn't likely to go do those young adult things.

It's also more difficult as a man to go and start your career if you're tied to someone who already has a career and isn't about to move across the country with you. It can actually be a huge problem when both people are professionals, since usually one of the two will have to take a step back in his career to stay close to the other. It was like this with my ex; she was established where she was and I was newly out of law school. So I was pretty much unable to look for work more than, say, an hour's commute from where she lived. I'm kinda glad that relationship ended so quickly, now that I think about it.

>Before I got the chance to segue into asking about meeting up, she bloody beat me to it.
Congrats OP.
>I swore I heard a little giddiness in her voice.
Could be, could be. Considering the fact that you called pretty much could only have been to ask her out to meet back up... like she surely knew you were gonna ask her out. What that tells me is that she was caught so badly off guard that she couldn't read you, and was genuinely fearful that you were just saying "hey" and she might not get another opportunity.

Either way, very good sign dude.

Crazy, I'm in a similar situation as well and I've been combing Jow Forums for days just sort of looking for direction but not posting about it.

Unfortunately I'm not as cool as OP's lady, and I'm looking for a new long-term job now that my obligations here are nearly up (went back to school, helping my dad and grandmother out until he retires). I've always been really up front with this guy regarding my intentions to leave, how uncomfortable our age gap sometimes makes me (10 years apart, I'm in my 30s), and how much I think my presence is holding him back even though I've seen a lot of good changes in him since we've been together.

OP, how did you cope with it? What did she say to convince you that it was the best course of action? What can I do to make this easier for him?

>OP, how did you cope with it? What did she say to convince you that it was the best course of action? What can I do to make this easier for him?
Not OP but I'd lay good money that she was never really able to convince him. That it was more a matter of her ending it and sticking to her guns. You should know how it is with younger men; they will often just go along with whatever you want even if it hurts because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

How did you get with your guy/start talking to him? Where do I find mummy?

>a huge problem when both people are professionals
Very true. It wasn't uncommon for her to pull 60+ hour work weeks when I was first getting to know her. As it went on though, she started to reduce the amount she worked. It hurt her position in the company, but her priorities had switched so she didn't care.

Never really thought about it like that. It was just a huge relief to me that she asked it and that we seemed to be on the same page.

Parting ways was tough, and in my case with hindsight, probably not what we should have done. But I respected her and trusted her enough to ultimately abide by her conclusion. Doesn't mean I didn't argue against it.

There wasn't one thing in particular that 'convinced' me. It was more just a combination of my trust in her, university ending, and an understanding of my own situation.
I was just out of university without a job and not exactly rolling in money. I needed time to establish myself and lay the ground work so I could support the things I really wanted out of life.

>I've been playing around with the idea of contacting her, and hopefully, getting back together again.
>So, I suppose that's my question. Should I try to get back together with this older woman?
No, but sex should be ok.

>Never really thought about it like that. It was just a huge relief to me that she asked it and that we seemed to be on the same page.
Well whatever reason she had for beating you to the punch, it's a good sign. I'll say the worst possible case is that she'll have it in her head that it's purely for professional networking/reconnecting after so much time, but doing the right things while you're together ought to get you past that.

Sorry if I'm getting too pushy, but is she a lawyer? I'm getting distinct lawyer vibes from what you're describing. Especially if she does litigation, I can totally see the "going after a younger man" thing. Not in a bad way, of course. I just know a lot of woman lawyers.

Whatever she does, just make sure you take good care of her. Most professional women I've known have been a bit neurotic, and having a level-headed down-to-earth guy to balance them out makes for a real power couple. My ex's parents were like that; she was a chartered accountant and absolutely nuts, he ran his own landscaping business and was one of those "salt of the earth" types. Really beautiful couple.

She will be very disappointed to see that you haven't found a young lady for yourself.

>is she a lawyer?
Bingo. Mainly focused on corporate and international if I remember correctly. You'd never know if you saw where she lived or what she drove though.

>Most professional women I've known have been a bit neurotic.
When I first getting to know her, she use to be pretty obsessive–compulsive. She'd do weird things like turn the element on a stove top on and off a certain number of times, or put things back in very specific spot.
I'd drive her up the wall because I'd walk around her apartment and shift everything ever so slightly. She got a lot better about it as time went on.

I'm ready to catch an earful of sly remarks about that when I talk again with her later.

>Bingo. Mainly focused on corporate and international if I remember correctly.
Oh nice. That's actually a massive field nowadays. I was heavily into public international law myself in law school; stuff like treaty law, resolution of disputes between nations, and a little bit into international humanitarian and human rights law, though my real passion was international cybersecurity and cyberlaw. The private stuff, especially dealing with corporate law, foreign direct investment, etc. is very cool shit though. VERY lucrative too if you can occupy a specialized niche. Even though there are a lot of people in that general field, there are not a ton of specialists, and there's certainly not anything remotely approaching the degree of specialization that there is in domestic law.

Hmm. If I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to pick up a few bits of lingo to ask about developments in her specific area of practice. I used to do that with my ex; it'd confuse the hell out of her. "Why on earth do you know what that is?" and I'd be struggling to keep a straight face. She'd get me back though; I would get super excited about some ridiculously technical supreme court case law that was in the pipeline (Bristol Myers Squibb v. Superior Court of California, usually), and she'd ask me about it periodically to set me off.
Kek. Sorry for the blogging, your story just has me feeling nostalgic.
>When I first getting to know her, she use to be pretty obsessive–compulsive. She'd do weird things like turn the element on a stove top on and off a certain number of times, or put things back in very specific spot.
>I'd drive her up the wall because I'd walk around her apartment and shift everything ever so slightly. She got a lot better about it as time went on.
That's really cute in a weird way. Take good care of her, user. She sounds like a real great lady.

What’s the closest comparison you could make?

>pick up a few bits of lingo
I know more about shit like asset recovery and shipping law than I can to admit.
There's a major harbour in the city, and I could tell how fucked things were there on any given day just by how many times she clicked her tongue when she got home.

The pictures with some of my posts are decently close, featureswise. I can't think of a someone who'd be remotely known who resembles her off the top of my head.

So what's the meetup plan, OP? What kinda date are you going for?

Just got off the phone with her.
Spent a fair bit of time talking.Long story short, we got caught up on each others lives.

The conversation was a lot more awkward and nervous than this morning, especially when the topic of our individual love lives came up. There was more than a couple awkward silences and fumbled words, but we managed to bumble our way through it.

She had mentioned that she moved into a new place just last year and that I should come over and have dinner when I'm in town next month. She also offered her help, rather excitedly I might add, in finding me a place to live. She quickly got super bashful about it, but I accepted her offer.

What really caught me off guard, damn near stopped my heart in fact, happened right at the end of the call. The conversation was winding down and we were on the verge of saying the 'goodbyes' when she suddenly asked, in a quiet voice, if it was alright for her to be a little selfish this time. Then she asked if we could talk again tomorrow.

Holy fuck, I'm feeling a lot of different things right now.

Colossal ladyboner detected

>she suddenly asked, in a quiet voice, if it was alright for her to be a little selfish this time. Then she asked if we could talk again tomorrow.
Well that escalated quickly.

>I should come over and have dinner when I'm in town next month.
>she suddenly asked, in a quiet voice, if it was alright for her to be a little selfish this time. Then she asked if we could talk again tomorrow.
Oh shit, this date is a month out? And she's already moving that quickly? Congrats, obviously, because it sounds like you're already past the "will she be willing to try again" hurdle. It's just my own bad experiences, but I'd be scared of LDR-like burnout or some shit.

I don't think you made the wrong move contacting her now, but I'd just keep in mind that it very well may wind up being a rollercoaster of a month, and then a rollercoaster of a period between seeing her and when you actually relocate. This LDR I was in, when it went hot, I was shocked when, for the first month, virtually every waking hour was spent either chatting with her or on the phone with her... and I thought I would be the clingy one, needing to talk every day. This after being friends for 5 years.

Of course, your track record with this girl is very different; you were in a real relationship and know things can work between you. I'd just say, be aware of the risks. Especially if she gets obsessive over you, if things move too fast, it's the kind of thing that could lead to misunderstandings and bad feelings. Her being a bit older ought to be a boon in that regard, but I'd still be wary.

>be a little selfish
She means have you all to herself.

Think about it bruh: she broke up with you because she had given you a whole lot but you weren’t able to give back in the same way. She wanted you to try giving to others. But now she wants to be “selfish”.

You're telling me.
Managed to balance myself out enough to manage an "I'd like that" before we said our goodbyes.

I want to be excited and believe that that means what I think it means, but I'm apprehensive and don't want to count the eggs before they hatch.

I wouldn't say she's moving quickly. Her having me over for dinner was a something we did regularly even before we were really seeing each other. She knew what it was like to be a poor university student and she'd always give me shit for eating nothing but plain white rice and chicken.

Like I said before, I don't want to get ahead of myself yet, but I do think we've started down the path to restarting our relationship. If I get a 'goodnight' text, I think I'll shit myself.
I'm not terribly worried about binging on talking to her. For one thing, we both work, for another, we were always good at respecting each others space. If one of us wanted some downtime the other had no problem just doing their own thing.

Kinda hoping that.

>I'm not terribly worried about binging on talking to her. For one thing, we both work, for another, we were always good at respecting each others space. If one of us wanted some downtime the other had no problem just doing their own thing.
Thank god. While the "information storm" period of the relationship I was describing was enjoyable at times, there were points where it just got to be so overbearing that it was painful. My ex got really possessive of all my free time. I'm still embarrassed to say it, but I was so wrapped up in it that I nearly missed a litigation deadline.

It's so stupid, honestly. Of all the scars that you could legitimately bear from a failed relationship, that's what's stuck with me. I really still haven't gotten my confidence back to do litigation (the whole thing was a shitshow in the first place, that I had no business working on alone, but that near-miss was kind of the icing on the cake).

I'll be the first to admit that she was the more 'giving' one in the relationship, but we did do a lot to help each other and improve.
She's a pretty giving person at her core, even if its sometimes to her determent. I take it as a positive sign that she's grown as a person if she's trying to be a little more 'selfish'. Ultimately I want her to pursue the things that well make her happy and fulfilled in life.

In my case I think once we get over the initial impact of getting back in touch, I can see us only talking at length every couple of days.
Depending how the lead up is to my trip out there next month, I might take a little more time off work to send a few extra days with her. But that's something I'll talk about with her later on about.

That's rough though man. The fallout from a bad enough relationship can really cripple a person.

The earlier it happens, the less bad it needs to be fuck you up

What’s your favorite memory of the two of you?

I'd say it depends on the person. Not everyone will react to things the same way.

It's usually a lot of the little things that stick out to me. Things like share glances, those times when she nuzzled into me, her humming as she cook.
In terms of bigger things that jump to mind, there are two. One time, during the earlier stages of our relationship, I ended up staying longer than usual after dinner. So long in fact that we ended up both falling asleep on the couch. Come the morning, I woke up before her and decided to make breakfast. I'll never forget the first time I saw her sleeping face, or the sheer confusion and embarrassment that followed it after I woke her up.

The other one was the first time I held her hand in a public place. I didn't think a grown woman's face could get so red. She kept insisting that people were staring, they weren't, but I simply replied that if they were it was because she looked like she was about to pass out from a fever.

I've got an early start tomorrow so I'm heading off to bed. I'll try and check in on the thread if it's still kicking around tomorrow

Damn, that's adorable

Yeah I suppose that's true. My thing happened after 5 years of being best friends, but only about a month after we figured out how we felt. Shit went nuclear. After a week, we were talking marriage, and I mean seriously. Plus it was a LDR, and across national borders (me in USA her in Canada), and we originally met online, and it was my first relationship... basically the perfect storm was brewing when I finally went to see her. I'm proud of myself for being the one to end it.

I'm actually fine with most of what happened in retrospect. The litigation fear is, by far, the worst, though it's certainly not her fault and wasn't solely caused by me being distracted by her. But even for losing a five-year friendship, I like to think I took it well. I was able to joke about the whole situation pretty much upon my return home, didn't shed a tear about her after I left. And not being local, it's not like we had a ton of mutual friends or family connections or anything to serve as fallout.

I occasionally like to joke that I'd been *this close* to punching my meal ticket out there. Girl had a good job, decent money, wealthy parents, and was an only child. Her parents were awesome. Best kind of people. Shame they couldn't raise a sane daughter, but I get the feeling they knew there was something wrong with her.

Seriously, imagine meeting a girl's parents being a better experience than being with the girl herself.

Damn bro. Kawaii as fuck. Sounds like she really focused on her career and didn't leave time for much else. You're probably just what she needs.

Bump

>When I actually got a 'thank you and goodnight' text.
Well, that's something to wake up to.

That's pretty much what the majority of dating is, just figuring out if you can put up with the other person.
Unfortunately your friend changed after you started your relationship, showed her true colours so to speak.
I'm pretty greatful that I've never really had to deal with a LDR, they're tough as all hell to maintain.

Yeah, she basically put all of her attention and effort into school and then work. Originally bought into the whole 'you can be a career woman and have a family to' thing.
She also had a bit of a fear about being like her mother. She was an only child and her mother straight up abandoned her and her father, so she always had a bit of an anxiety around getting close to people.

What's with the "mummy gf" obsession?

A lot of Jow Forums posters are both lacking in a mate figure and lacking in a mother figure when they should just need the former because they’re of the age where they shouldn’t be getting taken care of.
They try to combine things into an Oedipus complex.
I, for one, just want to fuck an attractive female boss/teacher/superior officer/other woman who is both older and officially in charge of me and dom her into submission without it being some incest shit.

Op here. Have a another question since the topic popped up this morning.

Assuming the best possible outcome and we really do get properly back together, when would be a good timeframe for a marriage proposal?
I'm not saying do it right away, but do I do it after a year? Two? Three?

Two atleast

One year minimum for proposal, 2-3 years for wedding. That shit takes time to plan and she almost certainly has a lot of ideas in her head of how it'll work, though a lot of those are probably leftover from childhood, etc.

When my relationship with my ex reached the breakneck "let's plan our wedding" phase, I had to learn a LOT about weddings, engagement rings, etc. in a real goddamn hurry. So... I guess I could give some advice based on what came up. I learned a lot of valuable info.

First and foremost, it is appropriate to look at engagement rings together as a bit of a lark, though I'd wait for a good long while to keep from expecting that a proposal was imminent. Know your budget, learn the four C's of diamonds (even if you, I, and even she knows diamonds are bullshit, office women, especially professionals, do a LOT of dick-waving with their rings; you may be surprised that she takes it seriously).

If you're lucky and she likes simple rings like solitaires (and especially if she has thin fingers) you can save a fuckton of money on the setting. My ex had fat fucking fingers and thought she needed a monster rock in a gaudy setting to cover it up; the setting she all but demanded was $15k alone, and the minimum size stone was another $10k (for a shit one) to $35k (for one with decent color and clarity). Know that if you're both poor and just wanna get married, you can always upgrade your stone later; at least, that'll convince a girl not to complain too much. If you go that route, don't go cultured diamonds/lab grown diamonds since those cost about 70% of what mined diamonds cost and have 0 resale value if you go to trade it in because GIA/EGL refuses to grade them in the same way as mined diamonds. Cubic zirconias are dirt cheap, and it takes real training to tell the difference (usually you have to do conductivity tests, though in the very large ones you can just do density comparisons).

Continued...

Sorry to continue on rings so much, but it's an important topic that she'll spend a hell of a lot of time on, no matter how dispassionate or subdued she may normally seem. You very well may see her obsessive tendencies come out here, and it's important to be patient and understanding when it does start.

To some extent, when dealing with this phase, it can help to approach it like a salesman; learn the sales lingo, particularly for styles and features (what's "east-west", "baguette", "pave" vs "micropave", etc.), and literally try on rings. A neat advantage is, if she does have thin fingers, the entire world of antique settings is opened up to you. The reason it has to be for thin fingers is due to resizing issues; the way they do it is heat the ring and stretch it. Too much and it becomes like a wire.

Diamond styles: My ex loved emerald cut, as does my mother (who used to work at a jewelry store), though for different reasons. I'm partial to simple solitaire. I advise being careful about pear or marquise, my mother said those tended to feel like the tip was cutting your finger.

It's also good idea to figure out what your preference is for YOUR wedding band, or whether you'll wear one at all (my ex more or less flatly said she would require me to wear one). Though, if you're doing any kind of engineering field where you have to work around machinery, you could have a free pass to "I can't wear a ring for safety reasons".

If it's more important to her to get married fast, she may be willing to compromise on a lot of shit. My ex hinted that, if it came down to it and we just couldn't afford "the big ring", she would be okay with a high-end pearl ring, which would've been a couple grand total. Lessons there are both that girls have big eyes, and that compromise is weirdly possible despite it.

Continued...

Wedding plans themselves, one of the most complicated issues is balancing the guest list. Especially if you're not really from the same areas. As I said before, my ex was from Canada and I was in the US (on the other side of the US actually), so it would've been really annoying to get a balanced guest list, where there were roughly the same number of people on each side of the aisle. And while you could kind of "open the floodgates" in terms of invitations on a weak side to try to balance it out, you find yourself making a lot of hard judgment calls and some people might get upset. The worst part is just how expensive each individual guest is.

After a lot of discussion, we both came to the conclusion that the best thing we could do, particularly budget-wise, was to get the perfect venue and keep it small. If possible, less than 20, and potentially just our parents and my siblings. The venues that do these small wedding packages usually call them "elopements", and you can get MASSIVE bang for your buck. At the peak of our retardation over this, we were looking at villas around Lake Como in Italy (and as a second-line option for budget purposes, Lake Lugano and Lake Lucerne, which also have that Northern Italy/Southern Switzerland feel). Our plan, actually, was to take the money we'd spend to have 5 or 6 guests and instead get someone to professionally livestream the whole wedding (her background was social media marketing, so it all made a lot of sense), which would let other family members, friends, professional colleagues, etc. at least get in on the action.

The nice thing about a small wedding is just how easy it is to schedule. If it's just you two and retired parents, you could literally have it midweek, which will probably get you better deals on venues and contractors. The reception can also literally just be at a very nice restaurant rather than a banquet hall.

Continued...

Also, when I said one year minimum to proposal, I do not mean one year minimum before the idea of marriage ever comes up. I mean the formal proposal/formal engagement.

The engagement-to-ceremony timeline more or less has to be one year or more. The cost of doing anything more than a Vegas wedding goes up exponentially on a short timeline. Planning is harder, getting invites out is harder, getting contractors is harder. With my ex, we decided that the proposal would come around the time I was formally admitted to practice in Canada, with the wedding another year out, though we'd half-joke about just eloping immediately because I kinda wanted to beat one of my cousins to the punch.

I will say to be careful about getting swept up in my ex's level of insanity after one week, but if she's at the right age (mine had just turned 30 about six months before), it'll be hard to avoid. I'd say if the idea comes up within the first few months, the right way to defuse it is by talking about wanting to get to know her again before confirming that this is the right step to take, and that you don't want to overcomplicate things immediately. It might be a harsh pill, but I'm sure you can balance it out. If she's particularly prone to being sensible and dispassionate, you can even start setting a timeline; "Let's start talking seriously about this after 6 months, so the initial charm of us getting back together has worn off and we can be fully dispassionate about this. If we decide that's what we want, we can move on an accelerated timeline."

Like, to an extent, getting it back to her wheelhouse (corporate law, which I'm SURE involves M&A to some extent) should snap her out of it. That said, be careful, because if she's 30 or within a few years of having turned 30, she's gonna be real sensitive about her "biological clock" and shit like that.

I think that's all for now.

Reason I ask is because I can see something like that being brought up at some point when we're together. I feel like the long term is implicit when we get back together.

I can't see either of us wanting to rush into a marriage in the first year and I can't really see her being extremely demanding when it comes to a ring or a ceremony. Despite what the environment of her work might suggest, she's extremely frugal. I mean, she's still driving the little shit box Toyota Corolla that she had when I first met her, and that thing is almost as old as I am.

When we were together she mentioned that all she wanted for a ring was something simple with the birthstone of the man she married.
I don't really see her have a massive character swing, and it's still not 100% yet, so I'm not terribly worried about it, just keeping an eye on the future.

When I actually sit down and think about it though, she really does check just about every damn box I have when it comes to a mate and a relationships.

It absolutely will come up, directly or indirectly. I honestly expect it to come up indirectly pretty early.

My gut instinct is that the main obstacle will be her confidence in herself and thinking that she should second-guess your desires because you're young and don't know better.

Professional women are a strange breed. A lot of them have buried and repressed their femininity for a long time in order to get ahead, particularly in the legal world. As a result, those emotions and those behaviors can be a little underdeveloped when they start to come out. I remember one of my classmates in law school. She was one of the most capable people I knew, passionate litigator, very effective speaker, always a mountain of confidence outwardly. We were chatting with another guy one day, and talk about relationships came up. I forget how he asked it, but he was talking about his fiancee and then asked if she was seeing anyone. I'll never forget seeing that mask of competence and confidence crumble and the tears start flowing, "I-I wa-was... but it wasn't meant to beeeeeeeeeee [sobbing] [high pitched voice] excuse me!" And she left for the women's room. She was back quickly and apologized, and later even texted me apologetically for being so awkward. It was almost surreal. Everything up to and including the text later was like some kind of high school drama. It was really humanizing.

Of course, your girl being older, and having had a decent relationship with you before, she's obviously going to be a different deal. My point, however, is that on a romantic level she likely isn't as far ahead of you than you think. She surely has a lot of knowledge about romance stuff, and that can really improve your actions when it comes to romance, but it's no substitute for experience when we're talking about the ability to handle the emotional stress. I think of it as analogous to strength training.

>Professional women are a strange breed.

You can say that again. I don't know how she did it but she always had a stark difference between her 'work self' and her 'private self'. At work she was a no nonsense hardass who pretty much exemplified bold confidence. But outside of work she was soft spoken and bashful. It was actually pretty funny to me to see that switch get flipped, say for example, if she took a work related call while we were with each other.

Her confidence when it came to relationships was a bit of an issue at times. She worried about the age gap and she had the fear that my feelings for her would only be fleeting. She never really said it, but part of me thinks that back then, part of her really thought that she didn't deserve to be in a relationship, that she had let that time go by.

>having had a decent relationship with you before
I honestly feel like that's whats going to allow us get back together.
We're flawed people, like anyone else, but we have that history of being open with each other and supporting each other. Ultimately, half the battle of a relationship is recognizing that you're both flawed then working collectively to improve.

>Ultimately, half the battle of a relationship is recognizing that you're both flawed then working collectively to improve.
If this is your attitude, then I don’t see why she shouldn’t be with you

the most wholesome thread on the board, i'll be praying for you OP.

the most wholesome thread on the board, good luck op.

Well with any luck she will be.

Having a talk again with her tonight. I want to bridge some of the relationship stuff with her and maybe get a schedule set up for talking to each other a couple times a week, just so we can work towards being a regular part of each others lives again.

>she always had a stark difference between her 'work self' and her 'private self'.
Yeah, you'll see that with most lawyers. I'm definitely that way, and it's actually funny, there are a lot of times when I wish I could be my "suit-wearing self" outside of that context. My father used to talk about how he'd be when he put on his lab coat (he's a physician), that he'd *instantly* stop swearing. Robe of +3 charisma, basically.
>She worried about the age gap and she had the fear that my feelings for her would only be fleeting.
This is still gonna be an issue, but bear in mind that it's not the age gap that causes the issue. My ex had the same fears about me getting bored, thinking that getting with her and moving was too hard, and just giving up. It's very much a self-image problem. Stroking her ego, at least in the right way, is gonna be something she needs, certainly in the beginning. "Healing romance" basically.
Some of the things you can do will seem stupidly easy, but don't overlook them. Like with my ex, in the early phases, one thing that made her stupidly happy was when I ironed a blouse for her before work one morning (I'd also poached her an egg; she had a horrible habit of eating McD's and Tim Horton's every fucking day). The day that I did that, her "let's get married" talk took on a new urgency. The plan we'd had before then was that I'd move to Washington state, get licensed and practice there while studying for the Canadian bar, so we'd at least be within driving distance. After that, she basically said she wanted me to move in with her by the end of the year (this was in late summer).
>Ultimately, half the battle of a relationship is recognizing that you're both flawed then working collectively to improve.
Yep. You've got a good head on your shoulders if you can appreciate and express that principle so cogently. Though, of course, for her what'll matter more is the actions that show that level-headedness.

Ive always been more of an 'expression through action over words' kind of guy. I did little things like laying out a suit for her next day at work or picking up something from the grocery store if I knew she was out.
Something kinda cute too was when I'd hug her from behind while she was cooking. She'd complain that I was getting in her way, and when I'd try to release her she'd tell me not to stop.

I just have to be conscious of and make an effort to vocalize it a little more. Actions big or small are nice, but sometimes people just want to hear some warm words from you.

One thing that got my ex past her hesitation to get with me was this "realization" she made after we had a huge fight, that I actually needed her in my life, and that she was actually important to me beyond just being a good conversation partner.

With your girl, you mentioned that some of her concerns had been that, with the age gap, your feelings would be fleeting; presumably, that you'd get bored and find someone more exciting and move on. The realization that you get something deeper and more unique out of being with her than generic emotional fulfillment is something that should help lay her fears to rest. Wish I could give a concrete example of how to express that. My gestalt is that part of it is ensuring you show a genuine interest in her entire person, past, present, and future. And I don't just mean talking or getting her to talk, though that's important.

Another issue I see, and one weirdly contrary to what I said earlier about actions over words, is that as an attorney, words are her wheelhouse. Especially in transactional law (e.g., contract stuff). Words and implications matter a lot. And, sometimes, it's hard for women (especially older women) to forget that guys say shit without even considering the implication, that they can take things badly without thinking. And, at least for quieter women, the reaction is to become quiet and start overthinking things. And being a bit older, she's going to have a real good poker face.

Of course, as you said, you guys had a real openness between you. That's huge.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to hearing how this develops OP. As others have said this is probably the most wholesome thread on here, certainly the most wholesome I've seen on here in some weeks. Good luck in your phone call tonight.

Idk if you should do it just yet, but if she broaches it tonight then talk about it

>I want to bridge some of the relationship stuff
Kinda fast dude. I mean, if it comes up, fine, but I'd not verbalize that I was coming back for a relationship. The whole time until you come see her, she's gonna have those thoughts going through her head about whether she's good enough, whether she's gotten uglier as she's gotten older, etc.

I know you all had a good thing together, but you're still a month out from meeting up, and this is something that's probably going to be racing through her mind constantly.

If asked, if it were me, I'd say that I don't want to set any expectations or lay on any pressure, that for now you want to get back in touch and see where things go. YMMV, you know her best and what she'll react to, but from my perspective relationship talk is the kind of thing that's going to make her head start spinning, and that it's not the kind of thing you want her to be doing without you being there to see her on a whim. You know what I mean? It's the same as the problems that come from LDRs.

So the general consensus seems to be to hold off on relationship talk for now and posture more towards lets get to know each other again and see where that leads, which is similar to my original plan.
I don't think either of use are stupid enough to hop back into a full relationship right off the bat, especially with us being in different cities right now. I just know that the talk about our relationship going forward is going to happen sooner rather than later.

I just want to convey to her, and I believe she feels the same way, that we had time to go our separate ways and experience life without each other. Now we have an opportunity to be a part of each others lives again, why not take it?
It'll be just like when we started to see each other. Little by little in the beginning, gradually building up as time when on. That's kind of why I feel like setting setting aside some time during each week to talk with one and other will be a good way to normalize our presence back into each others lives.

And I should say before I forget, I do appreciate the input from everyone.

>I just want to convey to her, and I believe she feels the same way, that we had time to go our separate ways and experience life without each other. Now we have an opportunity to be a part of each others lives again, why not take it?
I mean, it's sweet of you to want to do that, but I don't think it's necessary (it's not like she's gonna start seeing someone else in the month before you get there, and all you're really effectively doing is "reserving" her), and I don't think it's a best practice for her mental health.

Remember, the fact that you've reached out to her out of the blue speaks VOLUMES. Being too youthfully exuberant also speaks volumes, and potentially in ways you don't want.

I want a fat boobed busty older woman whose gaining and cant fit in her pants

I talked with her again. I'm sure your don't want to hear about us bitch about our days, or about her asking me things like if I'm still in the habit of tensing my hand to crack my fingers while I think, so I'll jump to the meaty stuff.

So we had one of those moments when no one knows what to say so someone just blurts out what they're thinking. Turns out it was her.
She asked if it was alright if we try again. If it was okay to try and build back up our bond and see where it leads us. She spend some time talking about what our relationship had meant to her, and she said that even if I don't want to reconnect like that, it still means the world to her that I reached out to her again, even just as a hello.

I did what I've always done with her, I was honest with her. I told her what our relationship meant to me, and I told her flat out that I would like the chance to try again with her. I told her we could do it step by step like we did the first time. She can invite me over for dinner every couple of nights, I can poke fun at her cooking, and eat it happily all the same.

We started to trail off from there into some back and forth bantering about who makes a trash fire more appetizing, as well as figuring out times we are free throughout the week.

Well boys, looks like its happening.