I need your help, guys

I can't remember who said this: "We spend to much time focusing on fingers pointing at an object rather then the object its self."
As long as you think there is something above you, you should worry about what religion it is. Just focus on being what you think that higher power would approve.

I think there is something that we have no fucking idea about. We did probably evolve into what we are but there are other things we may never be able to explain. That fact I know I am is utterly mind blowing, but how do I know I am? The more you learn about science the more bullshit it becomes, just like religion. You shouldn't follow them to a tee.

Trust your logic and instincts, there is no "god". Your friends getting pissy at questions is the type of b.s. you should avoid. Always ask questions so you can discover new things and grow as a person

Hey brother, my heart goes out to you. I have many friends who uphold evolution, an old earth creation model, and still find the bible to be inerrant so we can set aside those topics for now.
Supposed contradictions aside, the only real questions that matter are these;
>do you believe Jesus rose from the dead
>do you believe he was God
If your answer is no/possibly then maybe if you explain why not we'll have an easier time answering the other problems

even when there would be no god, humanity still would flourish when they behaved better
there is no downside to the laws given to humanity

if you can't bring yourself to believe in an omnipotent, omniscient deity, believe in the message it's trying to convey.

don't be an asshole. don't steal. don't kill. don't fuck with other men's wives. just be a good person. but remember, you may not always be rewarded for your good acts and that bad shit happens to good people.

you don't have to read 10000 page book to be a good human being. might help though.

I've read a lot of science and have come up with a lot of contradictions too. I'd rather believe in a loving God when both religion and science have to be taken on faith.

lmao rich coming from someone who benefitted off biblical civilization. You only consider those things bad because its been culturally around you. Even those laws are slowly degrading and becoming irrelevant.

True, this thread reads like angsty 16 year olds.

>muh evolution, can't feel Jesus anymore
Did you ever stop to consider the idea that evolution is the answer to "how" and not the answer to "why"?
Your faith is your own business but don't con yourself out of it based on stupidity.
t. Agnostic

I find an agnostic frame of mind more pleasent. I also don't think its that black and white
>Is god real or not?
I understand your crisis however, I can imagine its quite painfull to doubt things you have believed in all your life.

But I personally think no book is going to tell you anything about spirituality, god or jesus. The bible is manipulated to the degree that its become virtually useless as a teacher.

I'm not going to argue if Jesus is real or isn't real. What I can say is however, is there was such a force of change in the world(Jesus)? I bet a lot of men would stand in line to control it or somehow selfishly profit from it (which we've seen a lot troughout the ages).

So even when everything is a lie around you, that does not conclude God isn't real, or that Jesus isn't real. It just means you have no legitimate sources of information. I think you're smart enough to not get carried away by atheism, as its a form of denial (imo).

I used to be an atheist untill I was about 15-16, I simply admitted I didn't know at some point and that it doesn't really matter in the first place if god is real or not. I did think that if god is real then likely he/she/it would just as humans progress and start understanding eachother, be compassionate. After all we we're made in his image?

You'll get trough it, I experienced a similar crisis with science and atheism, looking back at it, it was just complete denial of what other options are actually there. I hope this helps.

>You only consider those things bad because its been culturally around you

so you wouldn't consider it a bad thing if someone killed your loved ones or stole everything you worked hard for? i'm having trouble understanding your point.

the theories of evolution and the existence of God aren't mutually exclusive. you can believe both. and the Bible may have contradictions but you have to realise it's a collection of books written by a bunch of different people. it may not be perfectly factual but there is one theme that resonates through the whole thing and this is that to achieve eternal life, you must have faith in Jesus Christ and not doubt his existence.

believing in God may seem hard at times but this is part of the test. we are tested to see if our faith will remain strong in the worst of times. and it will be completely worth it for the reward at the end.

we are conditioned through media and education to not believe. this was predicted in revelation. along with wars and rumours of wars as we progress through to the end times. just look at all the sinful behaviours and lifestyles that are becoming normalised through the media. it's textbook Revelation.

if you struggle to believe that there is anything greater than what we see with our eyes, just try to picture the absence of everything. picture complete nothingness. now think about everything we have and every opportunity we have. there is an unthinkable difference between these two extremes. existence itself seems so far-fetched compared to complete nothingness so why is it so hard to believe in an extra being outside of the reality we see? why is it so hard to believe in a life after death?

if you could tell someone before they were born that they would be born into a world with trees, grass, nature, sea, stars, sun, rain, snow, landscapes, people, love etc. they may not believe you. it's the same principle telling someone alive that there is a Heaven. it seems so great and different to the reality we know, that it's impossible to imagine. this is why we need faith.

God exists.
Your ancestors are in fact still around, be they in purgatory roaming our world or have joined eternal peace.
Your actions do have consequences.
I am 100% certain of this.

You're a critical thinker. Here's Christian logic...

If God made you, he made you this critical, and requiring of evidence to prove anything. He surely wouldn't hold it against you for your doubts. Not like you'll go to hell (which is also silly af).

And if he's not real.. well. You don't spend to spend the rest of your life in a delusion.

Oh and also...you can totally believe in science and evolution and quantum theory and whatever have you *and* be Christian.

It's one or the other.

It's *not* one or the other. Sorry.

Exactly what im saying. We consider it bad because of our Christian justice system, al be it slowly degrading. If you go around the world you find murder is less serious and turns into blood feuds spanning generations. You'd be surprised to find out whats acceptable outside of the "western" world.

>Murder leads to blood feuds spanning generations.

I think that means they also don't think it's ok dude.. huge difference between what the law has to say and what the victims feel...

People don't like death or murder prettttyyy universally regardless of the consequences in place...

>evolution

We must first distinguish between the myth of evolution and evolution as studied by practicing scientists. Because they are different. I call it a myth because it is the imaginative and not the logical result of what is vaguely called ‘modern science’. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as ‘modern science’. There are only particular sciences, all in a state of rapid change, and sometimes inconsistent with one another. What the Myth of evolution uses is a selection from the scientific theories--a selection made at first, and modified afterwards, in obedience to imaginative and emotional needs. It is the work of the folk imagination, moved by its natural appetite for an impressive unity. It therefore treats its data with great freedom--selecting, slurring, expurgating, and adding at will.

The central idea of the Myth is what its believers would call ‘Evolution’ or ‘Development’ or ‘Emergence’, just as the central idea in the myth of Adonis is Death and Re-birth. I do not mean that the doctrine of Evolution as held by practising biologists is a Myth. It has however been shown, by most serious modern biologists, to be a less satisfactory hypothesis than was hoped for fifty years ago. But that does not amount to being a Myth. It is a genuine scientific hypothesis. But we must sharply distinguish between Evolution as a biological theorem and popular Evolutionism or Developmentalism which is certainly a Myth. (Cont'd)

Im talking about the severity of it in the culture.

I was in your boat, user.

What I recommend is doing some exploring.

Learn about other paths, what they teach, what the believe. Try some out. Don't be afraid to turn away from your original path, if it was meant to be you will find it again.

Try looking at the world through atheist glasses first, then move on to study other religions.

This is what I did, and while I practice a pretty obscure spiritual belief (ngl it seems nutty to others so I keep it on the dl), I at least now feel like I have a connection to my God and it gives me a little more reassurance, as I never really felt a connection to the Christian God the same way.

Attached: download (1).jpg (272x185, 13K)

(Cont'd)

In the science, Evolution is a theory about changes: in the Myth it is a fact about improvements. Thus a real scientist like Professor J.B.S. Haldane is at pains to point out that popular ideas of Evolution lay a wholly unjustified emphasis on those changes which have rendered creatures (by human standards) ‘better’ or more interesting. He adds, ‘We are therefore inclined to regard progress as the rule in evolution. Actually it is the exception, and for every case of it there are ten of degeneration.’ But the Myth simply expurgates the ten cases of degeneration. In the popular mind the word ‘Evolution’ conjures up a picture of things moving ‘onward and upwards’, and of nothing else whatsoever. And it might have been predicted that it would do so. Already, before science had spoken, the mythical imagination knew the kind of ‘Evolution’ it wanted. It wanted the Keatsian and Wagnerian kind: the gods superseding the Titans, and the young, joyous, careless, amorous Siegfried superseding the care-worn, anxious, treaty-entangled Wotan. If science offers any instances to satisfy that demand, they will be eagerly accepted. If it offers any instances that frustrate it, they will simply be ignored.

Again, for the scientist Evolution is purely a biological theorem. It takes over organic life on this planet as a going concern and tries to explain certain changes within that field. It makes no cosmic statements, no metaphysical statements, no eschatological statements. Granted that we now have minds we can trust, granted that organic life came to exist, it tries to explain, say, how a species that once had wings came to lose them. It explains this by the negative effect of environment operating on small variations. It does not in itself explain the origin of organic life, nor of the variations, nor does it discuss the origin and validity of reason.

(Comt'd)

So strictly speaking, the scientific theory of evolution is not incompatible with Christianity. Afterall, all literally every science claims or can claim to be is a series of inferences based on observed facts. And evolution is perhaps the most highly theoretical since we cannot observe the world over 1000 years ago, let alone 100 years ago, we have to base what things were like previously on fossils and our imagination. Which I think is what lead us to the modern 'myth' of evolution. But the myth is most certainly incompatible with Christianity. Because it is so illogical. If everything I see around me is the mindless and ever changing result or stage in my endless and ceaseless 'becoming', if it is all only one small stage in my 'evolutionary' process as man, then how can I trust my own reasoning to be true? For I must accept my reason as absolute to even believe in the sciences that lead me to believe in evolution. But to do that I must accept my reason is only the unforeseen byproduct of evolution in my endless and ceaseless becoming. How then can I accept it my reason as true? I can't. If I don't believe in God given reason, if I don't believe in God, I cannot believe in thought.

Hopefully this makes sense. I'll tackle the gay thing in my next post

>gay people

We must ask ourselves what is the purpose of sex? Reproduction, plain and simple. It is Gods greatest gift to man. It is the only thing that allows us to share in his creative power, that allows us to create another living, breathing human being. It is really incredible when you think about it.

However, sex also brings great pleasure. And there is nothing to be ashamed of in this pleasure. However, isolating this pleasure in lieu of sexes natural purpose, childbearing, is a sin, plain and simple.

Thus masturbation, contraceptives and birth control, abortion, and homosexual sex are all sins. They isolate the pleasure in lieu of sexes purpose of reproduction. Cure for homosexuals? Abstinence. The homo must give up sex just as the alcoholic must give up alcohol, since both are a perversion of a certain pleasure. It does not make them 'bad people', and you should not treat gays any differently. I have lots of gay coworkers whom I am very close and friendly with. They're usually very friendly. Though usually not the smartest bunch (though they try very hard to appear that way) But they are living in sin.

Remember it's not our job to judge. It is Gods. I remember going to Orthodox confessional and that is what got me to quit masturbating and porn. It's been two years, almost three years, since I've masturbated or watched porn/had sex. It can be done. And it's amazing what you can do when you have to.

I think in general you have a very weak grasp and view on religion in general, especially Christianity. Go to an Orthodox Church and attend their adult education courses (nearly all orthodox churches offer them once a week). There you will learn the history of Christianity. Remember the Orthodox Church was the original church. All bishops and clergy can be traced back to the original apostles. No other church has that tradition or history and thus, even some of the better Protestant church's (baptist, Methodist) have become tainted.

I know... But you seem to have mistaken the punishment and justice systems involvement with an indicator of how serious it is...

Just because the govt gives less fucks does not mean people give less fucks. This isn't a Christian justice thing as you put. This is a "humans don't like their family members and friends dying" thing.

Severity and consequence and what you can "get away with" are totally unrelated to people's views and feelings.

Because as you said, nurser someone in one of those countries, and their great grandchildren are still mortal enemies over the death of someone in their bloodline they have zero meaningful connection to...

I think that means they really really hate it. Not that it's less severe and more lax and don't think it's a bad thing like our dumb ol Christian culture who gets all offended when someone's murdered.. which is how you make it seem..

>The original church
>Therefore correct

Dude... They were literally the government for nearly two thousand years, at some points, of all of Europe... You don't think there may have been some corruption and switchyard switchyard of laws and mistranslations here and there?

Old doesn't mean right.

>Weak grasp of what Christianity is about.

Here it is. Jesus came.. said hey we're updating Judaism everyone listen. Don't judge anyone, don't be an asshole, mind your business, be charitable, love others for who they are.. oh forgiveness is totally a huge thing on our list of good things you can do..

Anyway, while I'm here I'm going to give my life to cleanse all of you from sin for all eternity so if you believe in me you're covered. It's totally all good.

Don't judge now!!

>You thousands of years later.

Homosexuals are a sin and God hates them!!! You don't understand Christianity!!!

This much of a deluded retard...

Tell you what... Next time your mom has her period, lock her in a shed out back until a week after her periods done. She shouldn't be looking at you or talking to you at all during that time. It makes you unclean. God doesn't like unclean.

Also make sure all your clothes are 100% made from one material.. if I find a cotton polyester blend were gonna stone you to death.. like right away..

As per the commands in the same book that condemns homosexuality. You tool.

Almost like he was never there in the first place.

Welcome to the club. Keep searching foe rhe truth.

I'd like to share my experience with you, user:
I'm italian, 18 and I grew up in a catholic school for quite a lot of time, therefore I was used to worship god until i was about 12, when I started questioning myself "Am I worshiping and believing in something that does not exists?".
So I went to the nuns that used to teach me in primary school and I talked to them about it.
In a nutshell they told me to "keep praying to god, because sooner or later I would have received an answer from him", but they COMPLETELY missed the point of it, so I tried reading the bible, but I found out quite a lot of contradictions even from the beginning (take for example Genesis 1:27 (God creates the man and woman), Genesis 2:7 (God creates the man) and Genesis 2:22 (God creates the woman from the man's rib). It does not make any sense, doesn't it?
So, as the time passes I get more and more interested in science/technology until I realized that god does not exists (or at least for me).
I don't want to say that I'm an Atheist, because that means that I DO NOT believe in god. Instead I do not believe that exists any entity above the human being. (I don't know if you understand what I mean)

Sex is also for bonding between people. Why is it wrong for a husband and wife to enjoy a good sex life without wanting to squeeze out a dozen kids?

I'd say investigate both and decide based on which has sounder arguments and evidence.

>That's not to say that the bible is worthless because you can still learn moral values from it (although some are highly questionable).
The Bible's a pretty bad moral guide overall, though stuff like "treat people how you'd want to be treated is definitely good. DO NOT base your morality off the Old Testament, else you get shit like "Rape's fine as long as she isn't married and you give her dad a bit of money (You even get to keep your victim as a wife!)"

Care to explain how laws like "Stone the gays to death" and "Don't wear mixed-fabric clothing" are beneficial?

>Our Christian justice system
You're an idiot. You gonna claim that America was founded based on the Ten Commandments next?

The universe is God experiencing itself. Enjoy the ride.

Hey man, I'm not sure if this is bait or not, but losing faith can be a tough time. Just understand that with every loss there is a gain. In your case, you're gaining your right to think for yourself. Also, if any of your friends are going to get upset at you, they're not your friends at all.

Life as an atheist isn't that much different than life as a Christian. The biggest difference though is that you might miss regularly attending church service. If that happens with you, try spending time regularly volunteering, or attending a Unitarian church or something like that.

youtu.be/vQnFU5JvuWY

youtu.be/7zQOX8NmC0c

Rich Mullins will provide you with a different outlook towards your approach on this issue.

You just got to be you. If someone makes you feel less for it, thats on them not you.

"Stone the gays to death" is false
if it's not love, it's not from god

I don't know about the fabrics

I am coming from opposite direction - I was an atheist pretty much since childhood and did convert to christianity a few years ago. Not an expert by any means as all I know I learnt by myself but I think I see some things clear enough.

> I dont ever feel his presence
Neither do people with very rare exceptions of saints like Teresa of Ávila. He withdrew after an act of rebellion in the Garden so that humans could make use of their free will.

>evolution seems so much more plausible to me
Once again, my knowledge is limited in that matter, but people of science seem to mistake evolution with alive beings' ability to adapt. Cats and many other animals could make use of wings and human-like hands that would enhance them greatly yet somehow they didn't. Also it is not scientifical approach to assume that certain things had to happen just before there is no other explanation. Especially when there is no possibility to test whether the evolution works in a certain way. Throwing changes back to millions of years is very convenient, but once again there is no real proof that these things happened back then as well as the time was counted/assumed correctly. In this context christian version of creating animals just as they are now by God seems more logical. Even with skeleton in the closet that the story about the Noah's Ark is. Kangooroos weren't mentioned there yet somehow they survived and passed the ocean to get to Australia...

>I also have some gay friends which are really chill guys
No reason for them not to. People that do things in which case it is obvious they do something bad, like theft or murder, can be fine people when met in person as well. The problem with homosexualism is that it's one of forms of disordered love that sooner or later brings bad consequences. It's represented by 6-colour rainbow instead of 7 one made by God. Did you old Apple's logo? It appeared in Forrest Gump movie.

To be continued...

Part 2
(...) Its logic is to satisfy your sexual urges without a procreation it was supposed to be linked to which leads to degeneracy. Read about Sodom and Gomorrah and compare with homosexuals and other degenerates on manifestations in Europe, half-naked, with dildos glued to their foreheads and so on.

>I feel like miracles are just rare events now.
Weren't they earlier as well? Bible is filled with them since it pretty much lists the important ones that happened during 2k+ years. Later they were happening amongs catholic saints what pretty much shows they are the continuators of God's will to a higher extent than protestands or so called orthodoxes. For example, anglicanism as a nation-religion is pretty much pogan logic idea. In ancient times it worked the same way - one nation had one private religion (Egyptians, Greeks etc). In case of orthodoxes - they partially accepted the logic of this world, the pagan one, as well. An important example is attitude to religious leaders. In catholicism the Pope was above Kings just like human mind was ruling the body in pre-sin state. On the other hand, orthodoxes like pagans assumed that earth leaders, as the strong ones (rich and with army) are those who rule and patriarchs are below them. Compare with pagan systems like Egyptian one (Pharaoh above priests) and other.

>I tried reading the bible but I think I found a ton of contradictions and cannot come up with a way to explain them. I also realized the bible has been altered throughout hundreds of years and dont know which version is the most credible.
It's even worse. Books like book of Esther belongs to many cannons even if it doesn't mention God even once and is filled with jewish logic that remains in conflict with both Testaments. I can only guess it's safe to stay with first five books of Old Testament (as they are basically about history) and then prophets and New Testament (books about Jesus' life + Apocalypse).

To be continued...

God, as a Source of all creation, the uncaused cause, the eternal Substance, doesn't take much faith to believe in. We don't understand what the pure Substance is, really, but we can describe it using such words as "necessary", "prime", "all", etc. The creator of all the universes has no personal relation to humans. Therefore, the Bible is either highly composed of symbology and metaphor or there are higher-dimensional beings which interfered with our universe for a bit, and we called them gods. Yahweh just happened to be the strongest of the beings that visited here. But, of course, there's absolutely no way of knowing anything for certain. All the Bible could be an elaborate fictional story just like all the other religions. Maybe another religion is true, instead. Maybe the true religion once existed, but was lost through time. Maybe we haven't discovered the true religion, yet. It's certainly possible that the gods are evil, and just using us for their own gain. Even within Christianity, how do we know that Lucifer is bad, and Yahweh is good? How do we know anything at all? There are infinite possibilities, especially if you consider the multiverse. Unless you're omniscient, you can't relate every detail of your knowledge into a whole system of truth, because every particular detail affects the rest, and until you know them all, all knowledge remains uncertain. Live a good life and fulfill your biological desires, because that's the only thing you DO know.

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>There is no valid evidence for me to reassure myself and I do not want to tell people I know about it because last time I asked about something in the Bible they got extremely mad and tried to make me feel guilty about Jesus or something.
Bible bashers? Anyway, there are many interesting questions when it comes to history that are hard or just unexplainable if we assume that God doesn't exist, like the story of Joan d'Arc. Other examples: many elements in pagan mythologies can be traced back to Bible story, like the idea of the Flood, giants, gods (fallen angels) living on tops of unaccessible mountains (look - heroes in Greek mythology) or pyramid-like buildings (Babel). And other examples: pagans were creating gods who were just like them - warmonging, primitive, liking sex. This is why worshipping them was easy for them. Jews, on the other hand, seem to have constant problems with their God, rebelling against him all the time, disobeying him, not understanding him and coming back to him for more than thousand years. It is illogical to assume that they made up him like pagans did with their gods, as then they would create Him similar to themselves. Next thing: apostles. They were normal, common people, who didn't fully understand their teacher. When he was sentednced to death they reacted logically - hiding and claiming they don't know him. However, after gis Ressurection they spent rest of their lives on preaching him on the whole world before they were brutally murdered in His name. If we assume there is no God, then there was no Ressurection. If there was no Ressurection, there was no reason for them to do so as it would show Jesus lied to them and was not whom he claimed to be.

>all of my prayers dont do anything
>God wont answer me.
He is not a worker in call center to be called and be angry at for not responding. It does not work that way.

To be continued...

Last part

(...) Telling from my own experience: prayers might "work" many years later, and in way different way than we expected to. You can't say that prayers don't work at all since the effects might not be noticable; it's rather a question of whether you believe or not. The logic is to stop worrying and make God work on it, since often there is nothing you can do. If you trust Him.

Sorry for long posts. Attaching a picture of potato to make up for it.

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Didn't read your wall of text, but I can vouch for prayers working. I was in Boot Camp and almost got sent home for a medical misdiagnosis. I had a really high ranking medical professional help me out. She could have easily cast me away like the 100 other trainees she saw everyday, but for some reason she knew my situation was messed up, kept me in mind, and fought for me over a period of 3 weeks. I prayed my ass off every night over that 3 week period, and I am still so grateful to God for sending someone my way who cared and was able to (somehow) push some buttons. I would be homeless if it wasn't for God answering my prayer through the high-doctor.

How do you know God had anything to do with it? Maybe you just met an awesome person and no deity intervened.

I've been thinking about this a fair amount lately. Hopefully one of these ways of thinking might help you.

1. If you're interested in a belief in a literal God, that's totally doable. Evolution, nor any scientific theory, can do away with faith if it's serious. You take God as an axiom - as a precondition to everything. Before, underneath, and within everything is God. In this view, God's existence isn't a condition to be proven or disproven.

That being said, the Bible is full of horrible events committed by humans. People overly faithful to the book might try and justify these things - this is where a personal relationship with God becomes important. Forget what other people believe, just live your own interpretation and try and do good. There are some good stories, however - try and learn from them.

2. A more interesting view I've come across is from a scholar named Jordan Peterson (he's had some scandals in the media and is kind of a meme, but has some genuinely good ideas about religion and Biblical stories). I'd seriously recommend the Psychological Significance of Biblical Stories episodes of his podcast if you want to try and reconnect with your faith in a new way.

His idea, roughly speaking, is that religions are something like "memories of ways of being." The stories communicate to us important facts about being human that remain true in any time period, and God is like the ideal that we all strive to live to, the moral center. I'm almost certainly butchering it, maybe someone else can do a better job here. In any case, in his view, it's less important that God actually exists and more important that we believe in that moral center, the ability of humans to have faith and pursue the good. If you don't think your faith in a literal existent God is possible, then I'd seriously try this route.

again.
>prayers dont do anything
Instead of expecting prayer to produce results and relying on it, it might be wise to start using prayer as a time to meditate or visualize the things you want to happen. Lots of people have success with that.
>miracles are just rare events now
This all depends on how you define the word miracle. If it's something impossible, it doesn't happen. If it's something extremely rare, then it's just lucky. Miracles don't happen, but that doesn't mean there aren't seriously beautiful parts of the world.
>There is no valid evidence for me to reassure myself
It bears repeating: you'll never find evidence, but you also don't need it - that's what faith is

I have been moving in the opposite direction, OP. Trying to discover my faith.

I think its normal to question your faith, god wont answer all your prayers, life is trying and full of tragedy.
Rather that asking why god wont answer you, ask what god is trying to teach you... there is growth to be had through suffering, being left to your own devices, and being critical of your own philosophy.

I don't think anyone is better off as an atheist. I don't necessarily consider myself a christian, I somewhat agree with , but "god" is real - the immovable mover.

I would recommend exploring the Jordan B Peterson podcast. He is a brilliant psychologist who analyzes the bible through the lens of reason and human behavior... it is really fascinating and is making me a believer.

Good luck on your journey friend. Don't give up on god.

This is where I find myself more and more. I've seen cats reason more than I've seen it weep or laugh. Science is a tool, not a religion. It tickles me to hear people say, "their an athiest scientist," as if it derived any direct moral connection. God (or good) is our duty. Do good. Live happy.

Their is so shame in your humanity because Christ died so that we may live. Sexual commandments are more warnings to protect yourself from unwanted hurt and false guilt. You still need to love yourself and those around you.

I want a world with forgiveness, compassion and selflessness. A world with community and food. Not war. These are traits that we need to highlight in order to continue to progress.

I love Rich Mullins and the Icthus concert.

* they are, "atheist scientist."

* There is no shame....

Sorry arthritis makes typing on a phone a little bit of a challenge.

I personally don't believe that prayers should have any effect on your life. They are a way to connect with God, not to get something from him.

If you come to the conclusion that you're an atheist or agnostic, keep on being a good person to everyone around you. That's the real point of religion, becoming a better person and improving society. Don't become a miserable fag just because you don't think you'll be punished in the future.

If you miss God, at some point he'll come back to you. Don't worry about losing the connection to him permanently, if it's meant to be then it will happen.

Well, science and religion don't clash... People just think it should.
You can believe in evolution without losing for religion. Humanity definitely wasn't what it is now 30,000 years ago.

And believe me, my friend group in high school was COMPLETELY made up of gays, trannies, and non binaries completely away from my sode of the political spectrum... I prayed for their health... Only to realize Jesus' teaching mainly surrounded "sexual immorality". So, in my personal opinion... The sin isn't being gay, but rather the oversexualized culture behind it.
A person won't change if they don't see the need to.

Like the beautiful Celine Dion and Whittney Houston sang... "There can be miracles when you believe." From curing cancer to not getting ketchup on your favorite shirt, you really do decide what is a miracle or not.

The Bible is full of contradictions, really... especially with Old vs. New testamate, but that's where a little thinking comes in. If somethings seems off, read around it and find out if an answer should be discovered from it or one of the verses should be ignored.
That and transaltions probably RUINED Paul's original scripture of the New Testamate.

And mate, if ANYONE gets MAD at you for asking questions, DISREGARD THEM. You should always ask question because that's when answers come into play!

Now after reading this post, bud... I see your having trouble believing. But it also seems your having trouble NOT believing. To me, you don't seem to want to let go... And that tells much more than you know.

Just dwell, ask, and pray until you feel you have made the right choice. Free Will and all. Lol

You need Satan bro

You don't have a problem, you're getting over one. Be proud !

Christianity is not the only religion out there and believing in God does not mean that you have to be a Christian. Just because one faith does not make sense to you does not take away the fact that there are so many other theories out there. Its not Christian or atheist.

>We must ask ourselves what is the purpose of sex? Reproduction

...have you ever looked at sexual relationships in animals? Homosexuality and masturbation is very normal and common among them. Sex has a lot of purposes and recreation is the main one, but not the only one.

Why do you think human morality inspired by God would be based on animals? Sex can be recreational, he acknowledged that, but that pleasure is a sin. If you want to build a strong, healthy person/society, pleasure for the sake of pleasure should be avoided because it's just a distraction and has no long term benefits.

Remember when your parents said santa always listens and watches you, knows your moral actions and prescribes your presents accordingly? Well, of course you can't prove santa isn't flying his reindeer in space somewhere, but theres not really a good reason to believe that, right? Literally replace santa with God and I think you can see the overarching flaw in logic when you assert God exists. No reason to curse him or be resentful and bitter about it. Just accept that you don't know and that that's okay since the majority of people don't know. Its alright to have doubt in all things. It keeps you witty and on edge. Never just accept.

Way back when, there were a couple of memes running around Mesopotamia of how supernatural power could be obtained. One of them was mindlessly chanting names over and over again (like the Egyptians did), another was weaving different fabrics together, a third was tattooing yourself with names of spirits and ancestors. Yahweh says “you don’t act like that, and I don’t want anyone else to think you do” and so those things were banned. It was about the appearance of impropriety.
These days, no one thinks you can get power that way, except maybe Buddhists and Hindus and Jainists with chanting.

Humans are animals, but I do agree with you on that. However, how does browsing Jow Forums benefit you? It does not benefit you in the long run and it is a distraction...

OP here.
I think I decided for now.
Thanks for all the discussion, guys, it was really helpful, but I think Im gonna stop believing in God for now.

I dont know, but there always was something fishy to me about God being an all loving father figure. It seemed weird to me how a parent would demand so much love from their child, especially since I have really fond memories of my father and don’t ever recall him doing things like that.
There are so many other people in my life that I feel much more gratitude towards than god, that taught me so many valuable things that have never been told to me by Christianity, people I can trust, and not just have faith in. I cant put god higher on my priority list than them.

The thought of God likely sending them to hell also bothers me. If you send peole to hell based on their actions in life then the difference between two people going to heaven or hell would be a single action, which is simply not fair. Surely no loving God would do such a thing.

Ive also realized how many other just as likely possibilities there are besides god. The more equally valid answers to a question can be made the less credible each of them becomes. Am I living in a simulation or in an intergalactic zoo made by aliens that are too great for me to comprehend?

There are a lot of things I have yet to do right now, if I beg God to forgive my so called sins then I feel like I wont actually take responsibility for them and improve as a person. I think my parents taught me enough things that I don’t need the bible to have good morals.

Im sorry if I disappointed you Christian guys, but perhaps I’ll look back someday and think about this subject again, but I need to get this struggle out of the way for now.

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There's strong people and weak people and you just outed yourself as weak.

Disregard this guy, you are much stronger when you question things, learn, explore and grow rather than believe blindly.

>2018
>believing in God

What are ya fucking stupid?

santeria or some sort of african religion?

>the goo, the zoo, and you is plausible
Why do atheists keep making these threads?

I've benefited some in the long-term by browsing, mostly learning about literature or certain ideas/theories that wouldn't have been as accessible otherwise. But I would say that I could be more productive doing other things. Today I was thinking about what a man would look like if spent all of his time improving himself/ his family, wishing I had the willpower to do that.

near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html
med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/research-area/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/

Atheism is a Jewish trick too, user. Just remember this world exists for a reason, and that reason is not to set up billions of mostly-innocent people for eternal torture.

first off, God doesnt owe you anything. Jesus dying on the cross was Him basically saying "fuck it, you're on your own now", dropping the mic and leaving. if people got what they prayed for they'd only pray for what they wanted.

no one takes genesis literally so evolution doesnt contradict anything.

theres nothing wrong with gay people and they won't go to hell just for being gay. we are all sinners. people who say otherwise are ignorant and their own souls are in dispute.

for every contradiction you see in the bible there are 100 reasons why this or that passage is in there. without backround of when/why/who wrote the books, its easy to just find supposed holes that dont make sense to us.