Okay so I'm a pretty standard fare 25 year old virgin. I'm on the ugly side, not fat however and kiiiiind of fit (a bit more than a year of gym going, not a great body by any measure but I think you could tell I work out)
My reasoning is the following:
1. I've been myself for most of my life (let's just take the last 10 years into account) 2. In these 10 years I have never had a sexual interaction (not even a sexually charged situation) with a woman 3. By 1 and 2 we can assume my personality is not something capable of arousing women, be it because of shyness, awkwardness, being boring, uninteresting, what have you. 4. Personality traits are mostly stable throughout life 5. By 3 and 4 we can assume this situation is likely to prolong itself into the future. 6. However I could act differently in order to try to seduce a girl (assuming this is within my possibilities, which I'd like to think it is) 7. However taking into account 4 this would be basically the same as pretending to be someone else and hence basically manipulating somebody into having sex with somebody you are not
Needless to say this is very taxing on me since everytime I think about it it makes me feel like the most unsexy and lonely man on earth. Yet I can't find any flaws in the argument. Please help me try to debunk it.
You sound rather autistic. You try to way overanalyze things. Nothing good will come out of that. You can't apply "if A, then B" type of logic to what gets people attracted to one another. The only way for you to succeed with a girl is to practice and learn. You will get the hang of it eventually, it's pure instinct, not logic.
Lincoln Cruz
"Be yourself" does not mean "stop improving" and making improvements is not lying about who you are. Stop doing mental gymnastics to avoid fixing your personality.
>"Be yourself" does not mean "stop improving" and making improvements is not lying about who you are. Be yourself means be yourself, improve yourself means improve yourself because you suck and people won't accept you for who you are.
Stop spreading one shit while meaning the other. People like you are the problem
Gabriel Foster
But how do you improve a personality, and what makes one personality better than other? I think I'm a somewhat agreeable person, my coworkers never had any problem with me and I made some friendships with them too. I'm just pretty much invisible sexually.
I guess I am somewhat autistic. But I still feel like logic applies here, and attraction isn't this impossible to understand thing everybody pretend it is.
Cooper Hall
Stop. Logic does not apply in matter of attraction. Not in the slightest. You can learn about attraction through experience, but at best you can still only do approximations, since every person has different criteria for attraction.
The only way to learn about attraction is through experience. That means practice. Talk to girls. Go on tinder. Go on dates.
Grayson Ward
user, i used to autistically try and figure this out too. But I've realized some fairly obvious things over the years.
Women are not a monolith. There's no one right way to go about finding a woman. Just take a look at those crazy bitches who wanted to marry Charles Manson even after all the terrible things he did.
Chances are your standards are too high (and you might not realize it). You aren't attractive so you will not be attracting the attractive women. That's just how life works. Start aiming lower in the looks department or start making yourself more attractive.
You aren't putting yourself out there. This includes going on dating sites and being on tinder. Network with your friends and if you meet a girl you might like then find a way to ask her out. You will create uncomfortable situations and there will be pain. That's just the way things work.
David Perry
>Stop. Logic does not apply in matter of attraction. Not in the slightest. Yes it does. That's why there are algorithms which can predict with a certain percentage that people will find x attractive based on certain physical appearances, same as with other traits.
Facial expression and gestures are very definite unless you are completely incapable of reading human body language.
Justin Harris
Those algorithms can only predict averages, not the attractions of individuals.
William Phillips
True, but the average, still applies to at least 50% of the population, which is very insightful regarding physical traits that are considered attractive.
Kayden Murphy
Much less. Tastes of people vary a lot. There is simply no person, male or female, that as much as 50% would find attractive. Seriously, if you're trying to think "I will become this because algorithms say it's attractive" you have failed before starting.
Carter King
> tries to reason about feelings > gets to the conclusion that he sucks
Wow, what an unexpected plot twist, I wouldn't have figured that one out unless I read the whole 2,000 word essay.
Kid, decide what kind of girl you like, look at one and talk to her to decide if she's the kind of woman you want to be with or not. Tell her about what you like and hope she'll like you back and you'll like her.
Things make you feel bad? Move on to another girl. Repeat until success
it is that simple, just stop being so afraid to talk to people- realize there is nothing to lose and everything to gain
Aaron Russell
More mental gymnastics. The effort you put forward to improve is PART OF who you are.
Jason Reyes
>There is simply no person, male or female, that as much as 50% would find attractive. You have not understood what i said. I am not talking about an individual finding another individual attractive. I am talking about physical traits that are considered attractive by at least 50% of the population.
If you really think that we, humans, have objectively a choice in what they/we like, then you have missed a couple of biology classes during college.
Carson Rodriguez
>hiding behind biology to cover-up for your mental health It's you, man. Not us, not 50% of people, not attractive traits. You could be hotter than any celeb on the market and your shitty personality would shoo away most girls.
Plenty of people have a choice in what they like. Just because it's not you, doesn't make it some primal, instinctual reaction.
Caleb Martin
No it is not. It is a demand by outside parties to project an image of accomplishment to signalize the herd my intention/status. I am not saying that improvement is bad, it has its benefits. But projecting yourself as an ever improving being is pure bullshit, and people who repeat this bullshit like a fucking mantra don't know shit.
>You could be hotter than any celeb on the market and your shitty personality would shoo away most girls. Yet scientific evidence can prove that your attraction to another person can be figured out by very basic traits within less than 2 seconds of seeing a person.
>Plenty of people have a choice in what they like. Just because it's not you, doesn't make it some primal, instinctual reaction. You still did not understand a single word i wrote, unfuckingbelievable . There is no such thing as choice
Andrew Jones
That guy is not me btw, I'm reading and trying to process this. I guess the core issue is that I just can't even begin to fathom how a girl would be interested in me sexually.
Kevin Foster
Everyone is complaining about using logic in this case, but seriously, even if logic is admissable here, your logic sucks: >By 1 and 2 we can assume my personality is not something capable of arousing women No, we cannot. You might have spent the last 10 years in absence of all women, then 1 and 2 cannot contain any information on your ability to arouse women. Considering you're not such an extreme case, but rather an average shut-in, you've just spent the last 10 years being under-exposed to girls or have been going at it the wrong way. As the whole thing is additionally luck-based, there are no logical conclusions to be drawn here, just implications. >4. Personality traits are mostly stable throughout life Almost all psychologists admit that personalities can differ significantly if put under pressure in experiments. Some recent experiments even go so far as to claim there are no stable personalities at all, just sequences of situational roles we assume under peer pressure. Most personality traits also display trends throughout life-stages. Conclusion: inconclusive Conclusion 5 is wrong, not only by being based on 3 and 4, but also on assuming that women's priorities wouldn't change throughout their life's (this needn't be true, but your conlusion is wrong without stating that it's untrue ) ad 6&7: personality and actions are different things, though naturally closely connected. Acting opposed to your inclinations mustn't necessarily be considered deception, but can also mean you're brave, or open, or just experimental. It's hard to determine what encompasses being or not being yourself, just as it is unclear where being manipulative starts and being persuasive/charming ends.
Elijah Sullivan
There you go
Jacob King
I don't know why everybody is dismissing OP because he has the tism. This guy sounds exactly like me except I convinced this ho to be my gf for a week so I could fuck.
OP you are literally incompatible with people. You should expose yourself to as much discomfort as possible with the guidance of a mental health proffesional. By this I mean exposure therapy ie learning how to get what you want in a social setting. Its not unethical or wrong just a little counterintuitive to us autist.
Gavin Clark
>There is no such thing as choice You are a fundamentally damaged person and I hope you snap out of this determinism horseshit eventually.
