Hello, Jow Forums. I desparately need some help in dealing with my friend. I've known this friend since high school, she's been a long-time friend of mine. About 4 years ago, they came out as transgender to me. I had originally met them when they were presenting male, but I was accepting of their identity and pledged to support them, as I valued their friendship. Well, soon, she starting presenting female in public, and this revealed a host of mental problems that she has. She has been diagnosed with OCD, Major Depressive Disorder, Body Dysmorphia, and Social Anxiety. Maybe even more than I'm unaware of. She has been plagued by anxiety and dysphoria attacks repeatedly. She also tends to dissociate, and has a separate personality of a 5-6 year old girl when put under high stress.
Initially, she was optimistic about her transition. We had many bright, cheery talks about her becoming “girly”. Her parents however, have not been supportive at all, and even violent in some cases. Her home life is terrible, and she doesn’t have enough money to leave her parents. Because of anxiety, she is extremely hesitant to try getting a driver’s license or a job. She tried a grocery job once, but had a panic attack on the first day, as her nametag had her legal name on it. She is very weak-willed when it comes to facing reality on these things, and simply thinking about the fact that she has to shave more often than other girls sends her into a devastating anxiety attack. She is currently in her second year of getting a bachelor’s in Psychology, as she is fascinated by the human mind and interactions. This is paid for by the college since her dad works there. However, she was only going to therapy once a month, as her tightass parents thought it was a waste of money. She was terrified of mental hospitals, and would refuse to even consider it.
She has no support group outside of me and her younger brother, who is a minor. I have spent countless hours consoling her in her darkest hours, trying to salvage what we once had in high school. As a result of this, she is very clingy towards me. She has expressed her love for men, and not women. She admitted she has a huge crush on me, and idolizes me, despite my personal flaws. In a terrible lapse of judgement, I agreed to date her for a while, as I was going through a rough patch in my own life at the time and thought this would be a solution. We dated for six long, grueling months before I finally had to end the relationship. It was taking a huge toll on me, and I also realized that her being trans would make my life hell later on in life. I tried to let her down easy, but she was traumatized for about a month over it. I still did not cut ties or anything, as I still hate to give up on people like that. She had always expressed her insatiable desire for human affection, and to this day laments not having someone to love. She has since come to terms with it.
(2/3)
Jacob Robinson
Her symptoms and attacks worsened as time passed. After I left to pursue my own college degree out-of-state, her condition worsened. This eventually culminated in a terrifying text conversation where she stated she planned to kill herself, and that nothing I would say could stop her. She said the only reason she was studying psych was to find out how to keep her conditions under the radar so that no one would know to stop her if she wanted to die. She said she had no will to live, and I should just let her die. She had not told me or her therapist about these suicidal tendencies. She said she was going to hang herself in her room. I did the only thing I could think of and called the cops, believing that her telling me was a last desperate cry for help. They found her locked in her room, sitting on her bed. The officer asked her if she needed some mental help, and she broke down and said yes. So at 2AM that day, she was checked into a hospital. I had told the cops about her preferred identity, and she was checked in as a girl. The mental health wing was full, so they put her in the drug rehab center. Thank goodness for that. It did wonders for her outlook on life, and she came home from the hospital with a few girls’ contact info for support. She had eventually been transferred to the mental health wing, but she said it was scary and not very helpful. This was where she was diagnosed with a lot of her conditions.
(3/3)
Jeremiah Sanders
For the next few weeks, she seemed to drastically improve. She was ready to think differently about life and had scheduled more therapy appointments, as many as her shitty parents would allow. She even started to reach out to people at school and make some new friends. However, her home life remained bad, and the suicidal and self-harm thoughts came back. She has begun to dissociate very frequently, and I have to remind her of her other life to snap her back to reality. She has expressed that she still idolizes me, and that no other relationships are as unconditional and pure as the one that we share. About an hour ago, she had a panic attack in the school cafeteria. I talked her through it and helped her remain calm. She said she felt her mind slipping and thought she may dissociate but I kept the focus on reality and prevented it from happening. It was a long and grueling hour, but we made it. Now, I am just super tired of the whole situation. I don’t want to just leave her, as I care about her, but I can’t do this anymore. It’s exhausting and my own school performance is suffering. What am I supposed to do in this situation? Thanks for those who read all the way, I know it’s a lot to digest.
(4/3)
Wyatt Williams
Youre caught between a rock and a hard place buddy. If you were to decrease your affection towards her, her suicidal thoughts will rise. But if you chose to keep going with this, you'll be stuck in this hellish loophole. If you want to let the whole thing go, get her attached to other people and just fade into the background. Easier said than done tho
Chase Miller
don't light yourself on fire trying to keep others warm
also most trannies are insane car wrecks. it sounds like she'll only drag you down with her.
Jackson Bell
Yeah, I've tried encouraging her to meet other people, but every time she dismisses them and says theyre "not as good as me". She realizes that it takes years to build strong friendships, and it would be a lot of work on her part to expand her support network. So she chooses to put all the work on me.
Alexander Parker
Let her deal with the situation solo. If she has it in her she will live get stronger out of it. You and her brother have only been doing disservice to her. Of course she can't stand on her own two legs when you two fucks are acting as her legs.
I know its tough, but holy shit let her take the first fall, the human instinct to live is strong enough that a wishy washy weak willed human can't override it just like that.
Just tell the brother to distance himself too. Maintain watchful eye from the distance. The goal here is to leave her alone with herself to face the reality alone.
I know its tough to do this, but do it. She needs to stop thinking. Thinking only gets her to think alot, which leads to mental problems. Get her to do fucking sports as a blow off valve and constrain her thinking time ASAP.
And finally, I hope you are ok my dude? Good job on hanging through this whole situation.
I'm hanging in there, man. First year of school was hard for me, but my second year has turned out to be a big success. Thanks for asking.
I very much appreciate the reply, and you are correct that I need to let her sort things out herself for a change. The problem is that she instantly goes 0-100 panic mode at any kind of adversity, which scares me half to death that she'll hurt herself. She has an extensive history of self-harm. How should we go about taking baby steps on this?
Ethan Jones
Of course, she can't do it all alone right away. I mean you've all been babying and humoring her so it goes to show that she is not ready to do things alone.
Tell me about skills you possess first. Second, definitely get her to do sports.
It will probably cure most of her mental problems once she starts feeling good in her own body. Second, give her a lot of tasks to complete. They must not be hard task, but they can't be easy tasks. Teach her how to be self sufficient. I know this will sound harsh, but she has no confidence, because she has no skills or work ethic. You have to make her feel that world is harsh place and that she will face adversity at every step in life you be there or not.
Leave her with a problem, don't help her if she cries with the problem, let her try to solve it on her own. Do this x1000 times, and she will make it. Its called life, its not easy.
Make her do sports ASAP this is the first step and I guarantee you 100% that this will get most of the problems fixed in a span of 2 weeks- month tops.
Rock climbing is my personal advice, and make sure she reaches the top every time she climbs.
If not try something that has challenges.
Honestly, you are too good person for this one. I'm not sure she is a good person but im willing to listen about you and her if you want.
Grayson Morales
>mentally ill >studies psychology like clockwork
Isaac Long
>but every time she dismisses them and says theyre "not as good as me".
You are having a codependent relationship OP. It is not healthy for either you nor her.
Gabriel Green
Skills I possess? Well, my friends all say that I'm very easygoing and patient. I'd say I'm a pretty approachable guy, I don't toot my own horn very often. I'm pretty decent at programming and software, and I like to compose music and drawfag. I also enjoy just spending time in nature. I'm not huge into competitive sports or anything, but I grew up deep in the Boy Scout life, so I really enjoy activities like hiking, camping, fishing, and hunting. Just spending time out in the woods is really therapeutic.
I like the idea of getting her involved in an athletic sport. She is a very sedentary person and spends a lot of time on the computer. I used to be pretty into rock climbing and high-ropes, and I can vouch for the struggle and accomplishment cycle present in the activity. Only problem is, she's very self-conscious about doing "masculine" things, and even though a lot of girls I know do rock climb, her distorted view will make her hesitant. Not to mention, she's pretty lazy and out-of-shape. I will definitely try to encourage her to at least try it. When I'm home for the summer I'll have more opportunities to do IRL stuff with her, which can act as a motivator for her to try.
I would say that she is not necessarily a bad person, but she is not very virtuous. She has very sociopathic tendencies, and has used people like tools before just to obtain her means. However, she still feels immense guilt when she does stuff like this. She has lied to me about her mental health quite a bit in the past, but after the suicide scare she has made it a goal to be more honest with me. I still am wary and fact-check things with her brother, and she has kept her word so far. She always complains that she is a terrible, selfish person, but when we sit down and identify the actions that make her feel this way, she is hesitant to change her mentality as it will put strain on her. I still tell her that changing her behavior is a surefire way to feel better.
Christian Perry
Sorry, OP. This person sounds like bad seed. There may be no helping them.
Dude, you can spend the rest of your life trying to help this fucking succubus or you can drop HIM like a bad habit. That's the ultimatum that is presented to you whether you approve of it or not. Reading some of the other user's replies has confirmed this for me. You're fucking with a King Cobra, and if you don't leave that shit alone, you're going to get bit and that poison is going to make it's way into your entire life.
TL;DR: Leave before it's too late. Fuck that guy - be happy.
Alexander Robinson
found the second video by accident, but I remember the first one being very powerful and thought provoking
Nolan Davis
I just looked up an article on that term, and it literally describes me down to a T. I think that's what's going on here. I see how this can be seen as a unhealthy relationship. Not to mention, I have a history of doing this shit. Quite a few of my friends are these mentally-ill/needy types, and my phone is full of these long convos with other people about their problems. I literally justify it the same was as it said in the article - it makes me feel better about myself. My self-esteem is pretty low.
Leo Ortiz
Sounds like a really shitty person. I told you what would help her, but now, I'm going to tell you whats happen and what is going to help you.
The tranny phase is a fad. If she has problems with body now, guess what happens when tranny hits 30s-40s. Same shit that hits women, they spoil like week old milk. She will just pick up more and more problems along the way until she realizes she spent years fussing over appearances and finally offs herself. Good riddance, but it will drag the best years of your life with you down to drain. DON'T FELL OBLIGED TO HELP THIS KIND OF PERSON
I don't get why you value this person at all, you'd have more success getting out of your own comfort zone, building yourself to become a better version of yourself and find decent quality people. I'd understand if the person in question was a decent human minus mental illness, then sticking it all the way through would not be problem.
Im sorry, but that person is worthless as she is now and unless she steps out of her comfort zone (and she won't if you baby her) she won't change ever.
It is very hard, but for your sake, I want you to go tell her face to face, that she is going to have to do things on her own now. Then you will pack your shit and go spend your newly gained time to do one of following:
-Studying -Sport you enjoy -Outdoor activity you enjoy -New skill -Cook dinner, listen to music -Go out and meet new people
And finally realize all the new possibilities that just opened before you eyes, because you yourself decided to not be lazy and stepped out of your OWN comfort zone and did the hard thing. Good luck, may fortune be with you (or rather you don't need it, just balls)
Man, I'm really conflicted over this. Deep down I know you're 100% right, and that my own judgment is clouded right now, but that is a tough decision to make. I've been slowly building momentum in making progress in my own life, and letting her go would allow me to run with it and really improve myself. But she would surely kill herself if I cut her off. I'm a pretty devout Christian, and I would feel so much guilt if I was responsible. But this is really sucking my life away. I'm stuck in such a bad spot. This has definitely opened my eyes, though. I really gotta think over this.
Jonathan Butler
Im sorry user, but the last thing you wanna do is think over this. Just do it. I know we are nothing to you, but this is honest to God advice, that you should really fucking take. You are infact in a great spot to make a man out of yourself by doing what is the logical and rational thing.
Also, I told you already, such a weak person can't kill herself. It takes fucking determination and she has none of it. Self harm is only cry for help which is how she lures you into the honeypot.
She will either find a new victim or get stronger and out of that shitty phase. You are going to have to trust me on this one. You are too close to see the forest from the trees.
Levi Bennett
OP again, I've been thinking of this whole codependency thing and finding evidence of this in the relationship of me and my friend. It's a very one-sided relationship. When I was on the brink of destruction last year, I solicited help from them but got nothing in return, with them saying that they can't give advice "since they have problems". I had to seek support from others, and not this person who I have always held as the "most valuable". Even recently, I had given them a few songs from my album just to get some feedback and it has literally been 2 weeks and I've gotten no response on the music, even with me periodically reminding them to check it out. They clock in 40 hours a week on Warframe, no reason why they can't listen to 3 2-minute songs. Last time I asked about it, they said that they "needed to focus on themselves for now". Just noting my observations here.
Adam Hill
>Warframe Aw sweet been wanting to play that up again sometime. Still needa get my Frost.
Trick to codependency is the dependant does not want the situation seen for what it is as codependency is notedly destructive to the dependee and everyone knows this, usually anecdotally after a certain age.
Juan Anderson
You're a cunt. He isn't 100% right. While we brings up a solid point about not sacrificing yourself for the sake of helping this person he's mostly projecting his personal feelings about transgendered people onto your situation. Also, to imply that this person is only feigning severe mental illness to lure you into some kind of trap is idiotic and harmful. You can feel however you want about trans people but to say its a "fad" is historically inaccurate. Gender bending, transsexualism, transgenderism and cross-dressing have been staples of human sexuality since the dawn of man. I don't know you or this person but obviously this person needs serious mental health intervention. You can do nothing to help her. Whether or not the things she's going through in her life is a phase isn't for us to decide. The only part I agree with the other user about is that you can't let your life be controlled by her mental illness. I've been a mental health professional for the past 10 years and I would bet that her extreme attachment to you is more to do with her crippling fear of being abandoned and needing support than a conscious effort to manipulate you. Trying to conflate all of her behavior as an attempt to purposefully victimize you is extremely presumptuous and not at all consistent with the behavior of actually mentally ill people. She needs help. You can help steer her in that direction but if she doesn't want to follow through with it you can't let her hold you hostage. I'm all for helping the mentally ill but you can't be her psychiatrist. I know you know this but its worth repeating in the wake of receiving such terrible advice.
Nicholas Perez
>Trick to codependency is the dependant does not want the situation seen for what it is as codependency You have no clue what you're talking about. The keyword to codependency is the "co" part. There is no dependent and dependee. Both people fill both roles, thus the word COdependent. Codependency works in cycles of dysfunction and dependence. One person treats the other one like shit because they can only experience relationships through control and insecurity while the other one feeds off of that negative energy because they can only experience relationships through reenacting past trauma. That is just an example. You really shouldn't be giving advice about mental health if you don't know anything about it.
Jayden Cook
You fucker, don't sugar coat whats happening to OP. Making him stick any longer with this kind of person is just going to serve the purpose of bringing OP to his knees and not getting anywhere in life be it socially, financially, academically,physically and finally may bring destruction to OPs own mental health.
Also you are incorrect about me projecting my personal feelings about transgendered people. A person can be whatever he/she wants, as long as it is a good person it is worth sticking through.
I have nothing against transgendered people, but I do have a thing against shitty people, and I guarantee you 100% that sticking for this person is not worth it, not by a fucking mile.
OP, do whatever your heart bids you, but my advice is not to listen to someone that presents himself "mental health professional" on Jow Forums.
Juan Sanchez
>Making him stick any longer with this kind of person is just going to serve the purpose of bringing OP to his knees and not getting anywhere in life be it socially, financially, academically,physically and finally may bring destruction to OPs own mental health.
Nowhere in my post did I suggest he stick around and sacrifice his own mental health to help her. In fact, I agreed with you about that point in the literal second sentence of my reply to you. The main issue I take with your advice is your presumptuous psychoanalysis of why she does what she does. It smacks of personal bias and a plain lack of education about the actual behavior of mentally ill people. Your childish interpretation of the concept of "good" and "bad" people is also wholly unhelpful. Again, it really shines a light on your lack of insight into what mental illness can actually do to a person. I don't know what kind of person this girl is but the point is neither do you. All I can say is that from personal experience the right medication, therapy and mental health support can completely transform someone like OP's friend. I've seen it a hundred times.
I have a bachelor's degree in counseling, worked as a crisis counselor for a mental health clinic 4 years and for the last 8 years I have been the director of an adult foster care agency. I directly oversee 3 separate facilities and 17 long term clients all with diagnosis ranging from bipolar, schizophrenia, fetal alcohol syndrome, PTSD and down syndrome. The bottom line is you're uneducated. The girl obviously needs help and calling an obviously psychotic individual a "shitty person" isn't productive nor do you even have enough information to logically base that claim on. OP is justified in making any decision he wants regarding this person but I think he should base this decision on reality, not the inane ramblings of some uneducated internet fuckhead who thinks all mental illness is just some smokescreen for being a shitty person.
I think that as humans we evolved egos to help us survive and reproduce.
So as a mind in a body, I believe my first duty should be to myself, and I think everyone else ought to look out for "number one" first as well.
So look out for number one, is my advice, because nobody else is going to do it for you.
Eli Foster
Fuck, your skull is thick, you think you know it all. Step back and take a clear look, with your own fucking eyes and not hide behind some shitty credentials. We are here to help OP, and if you wish to extend your courteous hand further and help the tranny to then I suggest you offer him your phone number and go treat her. Because yes, infact you speak correct about > All I can say is that from personal experience the right medication, therapy and mental health support can completely transform But I know for sure OP has no access to right medication, no resources for therapy,no equipment to treat such a person and is in a shitty situation. Will you do this instead of him? If not then fuck off, it is his life and he has no such duty to drive it into ground just to help someone who doesn't give a shit about him.
I simplify this problem to a good or bad stance, because I don't see a need to overtly think about this thing. Thing is >OPs feeling like shit because of what hes been through >person in question doesn't want to put even a slight effort for OP while OP goes through heaven and hell for her
And that is literally all the justification that I need to tell him to get away. You are wrong, I am right and thats the fucking end of the story. Don't overblow the fucking situation.
Isaac Walker
Wel being trans is a mental illness in the first place, what did you expect?
Landon Nguyen
Wow we need to give more money to israel and other foreign countries so we can get to the bottom of this! We also need to raise the salaries of the teachers whose system led to half of millennials being broke as fuck! Then we need to give psychology a complete monopoly on the solution here because millions of people kill themselves every year and that means that their system is helping!
Andrew Young
I'm going to be the asshole now.
Did you ever get the idea that the relationship might be 'special' from "her" side and that "she" might idolize you simply because you are the only person to validate "her" and "her" shitty behavior all the time? You are "her" refuge from reality. In my opinion, all of "her" problems, including the transgenderism, is due to the fact that this person is mentally a baby who seeks to escape the reality of having to grow up to be a man at every possibility. Basically, I think , and are completely spot on. These problems will NEVER disappear as as long as someone gives this person sympathy for their shitty behavior. "She" will NEVER get better until "she" gets out of her comfort zone and embraces the struggles of life. You're probably a great guy OP, but being a great friend won't help in this situation. I'd probably have snapped long before if I was in your situation. I mean, a biological man who dresses like a girl and turns into a six year old girl in a cafeteria because it is too much to comprehend a social situation? HOly fuck, that's really another level of first world bullshit problems. Humans evolved to struggle against nature, and this person is going so hard against their own nature that it's almost ironically funny how nature's response is to inflict this person with all kinds of mental illnesses. The mental illnesses are a direct consquence of "her" behavior, NOT the other way round.
Cooper Carter
trans are fucking scary. im just telling you that fucking mood swing is going to end your life.
if you ask for my advice i would dash the fuck out of there because her head is damaged one too many syndromes
dont deal with shit you cant handle.
you have to admit theres nothing you can do and just leave it to the professionals. you're not a fucking hero.
David Allen
I'm currently dating a somewhat crazy trans woman myself. You have to get yourself unwrapped around her finger. Tell her that you love and care about her, but that they are projecting a lot of their shit onto you and that it's not healthy, that they have to find other people and divvy up the amount of stress she is putting on them or, better yet, figure out how to deal with it herself. An increase in therapy (weekly sessions) could help, but more than that, she needs to find friends. Are there trans support groups in the area? My girlfriend was batshit until she started going to one of those and made other friends going through the same stuff. It gave her a support network of people she feels she can trust, and not wanting to offend or scare those people also improved her behavior.
Justin White
Does she go to therapy? Does she pass or have a healthy self image? Does she have any other support? With identity issues, gender identity especially, these are the three key things. You being relied upon as sole support is not good for you or for her, and it can lead to her dependency on you. Get her to a therapist, find her friends or get her some friends. Trans ones especially, I'm sure you could go to the LGBT website in your city and pull up some trans support groups for her. Do NOT start dating her unless you have feelings for her. One of her biggest problems at the moment is her parents. Transpeople have a grim outlook when immediate family doesn't support them (adequate family and social support being one of the few things that actually brings trans suicide and mental health rates down to the general population, did you know.) She needs friends aside from you, to move away from her shitty family, and therapy and support groups.
Jace Hill
Its like you're not reading what I'm saying at all. I'm not advocating for OP to stick around and let her mental illness run his life. I specifically advised against that. I specifically said I agree with that point in the second sentence of my first post. I specifically said that he can't be her therapist. This is literally the 4th time I've said this and for some reason its not getting through to you. The only thing I'm advocating against is your moronic understanding of mental illness and your presumptuous demonizing of a girl you don't know for reasons you're just pulling out of your ass. >I simplify this problem to a good or bad stance, because I don't see a need to overtly think about this thing. No, you simplify this problem to good and bad because you're an idiot. Oversimplification is what people do when they want to sound insightful about a topic they know nothing about. >You are wrong, I am right and thats the fucking end of the story. You're an uneducated fuckhead who has no idea what he's talking about. You're not even intelligent enough to see what parts of this I'm clearly agreeing with you on. End of story.
Dylan Hill
What the fuck is the purpose of your original post then? Sorry, I actually didn't bother to read any. I assumed you would bring some kind of argument to help OPs case or something, instead you just off chance told me im a cunt trying to change my view on mentally ill people.
I don't mind mentally ill people or trannies and Im not demonizing anything. OP said himself that she isn't doing a squat in this relationship, im just deriving it all from his description.
What I am doing however, is demonizing a shitty person (read again not because shes a tranny or mentally ill, but just that a shitty person)
Also your ad hominem is really poor in taste. Atleast try to counter arguments with how you think a mental illness might work according to you and where I am wrong, instead of just calling me fuckhead and unintelligent.
Oliver Hernandez
>I assumed you would bring some kind of argument to help OPs case or something I did, but just like the rest of the pertinent information in my posts you're either not reading them or are too stupid to comprehend the words. >What the fuck is the purpose of your original post then? Just read it, user. This conversation will go a lot smoother if you stop typing long enough to read and understand the shit you're responding to. You're a cunt for claiming that her mental illness is just a smokescreen for her attempts to manipulate and control him. I agree with you on the point that OP shouldn't sacrifice his mental health for hers but your opinion isn't based in reality, its based on baseless assumptions. If OP makes the decision to separate himself from her I applaud him but his decision needs to be based on reality, not this narrative you've cooked up about how all of her behavior is just a product of her being a shitty person. You know nothing about her. You know nothing about mental illness. All of these assumptions are coming straight out of your ass. A good example is you having no clue what ad hominem means. Ad hominem is when I attack you instead of your argument. I'm not using the fact that you're an unintelligent fuckhead to disprove your argument, I'm using facts and experience. Your argument is wrong because its based on assumptions about a person you don't know, not any actual information. Your argument is also wrong because its based on false information about mental illness. What I'm doing is insulting you. Insults aren't ad hominems. Learn the difference. Your argument is wrong and you are also a fuckhead and unintelligent. You're out of your league, kid. You seriously need to stop internetting for the day because you're just digging yourself into a deeper dumb-dumb hole the more you talk.
Nicholas Myers
holy shit rekt
Gabriel Jackson
I don't know if you guys are still here, but it's OP again. I took a long nap and thought about all this for a while, and I think the solution here is not to go cold turkey on a long-time friend, especially given that her motives aren't clear. I'm going to try gently letting her tread water a bit, small steps at a time. I also need to be clear with her about our relationship, and how I am currently feeling. I definitely cannot let the current cycle continue. It is mentally and physically harming my health. I routinely stay up til crazy hours like 4 AM trying to console her through bouts of dysphoria that usually end on their own and not even as a result of me talking to her. I also went through our chat logs and found that in 2018, there have only been 6 days where I didn't talk to her. I have succeeded in keeping her alive, but I haven't given her the gentle pushes to recovery that she needs. And if the efforts prove fruitless, if it feels like I'm just banging my head into a wall, I will have to say goodbye. I also think I need to look into getting a spotlight on my own problems, as there are many of them. Everyone's advice here has been super helpful, regardless of a conflict of ideals. I am thankful for everyone's input.
