Give me 1 reason why anyone should force kids into this world against their will

Yes. Shalom, brother.

No circumcision isn't that big of a deal really although you probably shouldn't do it. However giving something life and opening up all the possibilities and horrors that life can bring to them, thats a big deal.

Isn't shalom a jewish term.

ok, I've frequently heard this as a comparison to circumcision in an attempt to debunk opposition to said practice

anyone with an IQ for 120 or above have a duty to reproduce

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but ok, within your given criteria, I guess circumcision would fall under one of these horrors

but life is not all bad, there is some good too

there is love, there is happiness

Yea babies cry when they're circumcised I hear. I'm not circumcised. You shouldn't circumcise unless necessary. Yea some people have some good times, but still all suffering stem from people being born so people shouldn't be born.

No, no one should reproduce.

>Why do something that, if not done, will kill the baby as well as the mother?

You're going to try to devil's advocate against the ethics of reproduction? If you are born, you get the option to kill yourself at any time. If you are never born, you get no choices.

Is it unethical for a god to create mortal beings that are doomed to being finite? I'd actually love to hear a take on that question, I've pondered it before.

but all happiness stems form existence too

The love and happiness don't make up for the pain and suffering.

What are you talking about killing the baby as well the mother. If you're talking about killing your sperm, I didn't say do that but people do that all the time when masturbating. Also no you don't get the option to kill yourself at any time when you're born, there will be many years where you don't know how to kill yourself, and even if when you learn, the methods will be painful. They wouldn't have to go through such pain if they never existed plus lived and suffered without the knowledge of how to kill themselves. It is unethical for a god to create a world that includes suffering. It being finite or infinite doesn't matter, since it includes suffering it's actually much better that it's finite.

work.

The happy people don't make up for all the people who have been tortured and what not. And even the happy people have suffered. It's not ok to roll those dice on your children's lives when they're perfectly fine not existing.

If everyone stops having kids then we won't need anymore work.

thats not the point stupid people dont consider whether they should have kids or not they just do

at this rate we will be overrun

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What metric do you use, to gauge this?

A life spent filled with suffering is worse than not ever existing?

The stupid people shouldn't do it either.

>A life spent filled with suffering is worse than not ever existing?

Yes ofcourse. I have had more stress in any one single day while being alive than I've had in my previous billions of years of non existence. Non existence is infinitely better.

Quality of life is getting better every generation, and it's fairly likely that a child born today will live to see biological immortality and space colonization.

Why would it be bad to have a kid?

So that they might evolve.

Suffering is an abstract concept while non-existence is 100 percent absolute. The ability to suffer comes from evolution, where we are made to feel subjectively bad if we injure ourselves, make dumb mistakes, etc. But since the only alternative is not ever existing, and therefore having no frame of reference for what suffering is, how can we say if it's actually better?

Yea life is constantly getting better, thats the purpose of humans to minimize suffering as much as possible, thats the point of all these inventions. But suffering will never fully go away unless everyone is dead. And biological immortality is bad, living forever in a world with suffering, and space colonization doesn't matter. It's bad to have a kid because you are ripping them from non existence with it's zero problems, into a world of countless problems and suffering for no reason.

Evolving is only for living better on this planet. If they just don't exist they won't have to worry about evolving and living good on the planet.

>against their will
Sounds like you're just projecting your black pill into unborn children really.

We've all already been through non existence. Now I can't say what death is like, if there is an afterlife or not, but since we're all going to die one day anyway, I'd like to think there's nothing negative in it since we're going to be there for the rest of eternity. Also it doesn't matter why we have the ability to suffer, if it's because we evolved to have get nerve ending and evolved a brain that can relieve stress, the fact is we do have the ability to suffer and all humans do it, so they should die off to end it.

Yea I worded it bad, they don't have a will. But you are doing it without their permission.

Peer pressure and NPC-tier long planning.

Those aren't good reasons.

They dont have will until they are in it for a bit. Honestly I'm not sure babies are concious until after 1 year old.

>against their will.
Oh so they have a will before they are even cognizant and conscious? Wow who knew.

Because fuck him it’s about you and life itself

Stop repeating the same thing I already addressed.

To prevent the extinction of mankind? Because all living things are driven by their DNA to multiply? Maybe babies want to be born, and would give their permission if they could. You don't kill people just because they can't vocalise their desire to live.

No. Other people matter too, especially your children who you're supposed to love most of all.

What Jew do you get your orders from?

The extinction of mankind is a good thing. Then there would be no more problems for mankind. Yes everything wants to multiply but we are human and smart so we can know it's pointless and horrible to multiple as it just causes problems that wouldn't otherwise exist. Babies don't want anything before they're born they're non existent. And no if they could voice their opinions while non existent they would most likely choose not to be born into a world filled with problems when they're currently living in a world without any. Didn't say anything about killing.

I've probably never met a jew in my life so none.

Coz life is sweet as, bro!

sweet as what

The non-existent babies that don't want to be born are never born anyway. And most humans don't want to go extinct. This is your angst you're projecting onto everyone else. If you hate existence so much, do yourself in instead of trying to convince others to kill their own babies. Or just grow up and stop listening to miserable fucks like Inmendham.

You've obviously been brainwashed by them.

Jews do not want white people to reproduce. If they do, the Jews would rather white people reproduce with migrants to weaken the bloodline.

Don't be a Jew Sheep.

>The non-existent babies that don't want to be born are never born anyway.
Not true at all plenty of people have gone on to kill themselves, wish they were never born etc..

And I didn't say kill your own babies, I said don't have kids. In a way, having babies is killing your own babies because they would never have to die if you didn't knowingly birth them into a world where they will one day assuredly die.

That's an interesting philosophical question. If you're born and don't like being alive, you're free to kill yourself. I don't even mean that as an insult. I mean you are free to choose whether or not to keep living. But if your parents didn't have you, you don't have that choice.

No one should reproduce including Jews. No more life = no more problems or suffering. Animals shouldn't reproduce either.

Most people aren't intending to make a baby. They just blast inside a chick and are surprised that hot white cock snot makes a lady prego.

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Suicide is painful and for many years people don't know how to even do it. If you're just never born in the first place you don't have to go through that or any other suffering.

True, but people should be more careful. This is something very very serious.

Getting suicidal doesn't mean that you were had opinions about existence before you were even conceived. Like an user said earlier; sperm wants to fertilise the egg and the egg wants to be fertilised. Eventually, there's a baby that wants to nourished. Being suicidal is an anomaly. You are the mistake, not the rest of us.

they dont have any will before they are born, retard

You're obviously too far gone. Give all your worldly possessions to a white person and kill yourself.

Not really. People are without value when there are 7 billion of us. There is a given amount of value for human life and we are all losing our value as the population inflates

Listen, if you want to convince people to stop reproducing, go on to some black forum or something. You might actually achieve some good with your whining.

Actually OP, why not just off yourself? Be the change you want to see.

bitchute.com/video/cRPXPRwWpyjd/

There are painless ways to kill yourself as far as I know. I think it should take a few years, though, because it's not a decision to be made lightly. But if you're born, you at least have the ability to choose, and many people choose to live.

No baby has any opinions before it's born. You saying the non existent babies that don't want to be born are never born made no sense. But I was replying as if somehow they all had opinions. And yes most people have a will to live once forced to live, but you forced that will onto them without permission when you gave birth to them. They wouldn't suffer without being born so you shouldn't birth them.

Wow, this emo SJW doesn't stop crying about people having kids Says a lot about his own self hatred

>against their will
i think i get what you are trying to say
so the question is
::why have children when it is impossible to ask or determine beforehand if they would be willing to exist and be born

its traumatic simply to be born
perhaps you would prefer to not exist in this world
but there is no way to escape
assisted suicide is more likely to involve a willingness to die rather than live but at least its not against their will
>1 reason
i can't think of even one
sorry OP

If something doesn't have a will then you don't need to take their permission into account. And even when kids are like 6 with their own opinions and feelings you still do things against their will for their own good like taking them to the doctors or giving them a bath or whatever even if they hate it.

You can say the exact same thing about it being selfish NOT to have as many kids as possible because no amount of suffering they might have makes up for even a little happiness you're denying them which would also be dumb.

Obviously the sane solution is don't have kids if their life will be shit and wait until you can give them a good life, which non-retards should already be thinking.

Value to who? You have infinite value to yourself, and your loved ones won't value you less just because nogs in Africa are breeding like flies.

Killing myself would not stop everyone else from reproducing.

suck my dick fag

The population should be zero. There is no value to life.

I go anywhere there are people. And hopefully I will achieve a few people not reproducing which will result in potentially millions of their descendants not existing.

I said don't have kids not kill yourself. But some reasons people don't kill themselves include it being too painful or not having the tools for the methods they want. Or not knowing how if they're too young.

>You saying the non existent babies that don't want to be born are never born made no sense

Of course it makes sense. They don't exist, therefore they were never born. And you don't force a baby to live. One sperm out of millions, all with one goal, to become a baby. The strongest one lives. There's no force, just an opportunity given to millions of hopefuls.

Many people don't have access to those painless methods, or aren't sure if they even are painless, or ways to learn of those painless methods. And yes suicide is a light decision, in the end it doesn't really matter since you're going to die eventually anyway, you're just cutting your life a bit short. And you shouldn't have to choose between suffering and a painful suicide that goes against human nature, instead of just not existing to begin with and never having to make that choice.

I'm not a emo or sjw and I don't hate myself. But people should stop having kids because that would completely end all the problems of the world.

Logic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X

Giving birth to children is not for their own good. It's just to satisfy your base urge to reproduce. What the kids get out of it is work, and suffering, and then back to death forever, with no reason for that short middle man of suffering through life in between the eternity of not existing before then after life. And it doesn't matter if you think you can give your kids a good life, anything can happen in life that turns it around, and even if they do have in your opinion a good life, they will still be suffering. There's no reason to take them out of not existing to go through life's problems for decades.

Read a thread before commenting.

We create videogames to play because we don't have enough problems, get with the program idiot.

Its in the sperms dna to try that. But it is not a conscious being that can really make choices. Just like a tree does things without a brain. But the eventual actual conscious baby did not have a say in being born or not, you forced that on it.

We create video games because of problems. Problems like boredom or to distract us from some other stress. All these inventions including video games are just to minimize our suffering as much as possible. But the only sure fire way to completely end it is by no one being born.

I'd argue it's not a light decision at all. Many people are perfectly happy being alive. But in the age of information, I'm sure you can google a painless way to die. You conflate life with suffering when not all people see it that way. Like the other guy said, sperm wants to fertilize the eggs and the eggs want to be fertilized, which to me shows that life naturally wants to exist. That's exactly why evolution happens. To increase their chances of survival. I don't think it's by accident living things gravitate toward life.

Is this the peak of human evolution?

Maybe if you have a subhuman mindset, if you're not playing games that can piss you off you're playing the wrong games, pain is good, it drives us further, you're just a weak minded nihilist who has failed to embrace and revel in pain.

Plenty of people don't have the internet, or money to buy the methods if they knew the method. Basically not everyone can do everything which should be obvious. I conflate life with suffering because only with life is there suffering. And yes once things are alive they try to stay alive, if they didn't they'd be dead, the ones that didn't, if they ever existed, died off without spreading the dna that wants to stay alive. But by giving life you are forcing that dna that wants life onto things. When they were non existent they didn't have to deal with that and the suffering of life, so you shouldn't force on them without their permission.

no it's the philosophy of suicide

You could say that, we're all destined to die one day.

>nothing negative
Just as arbitrary as assuming there's nothing positive, or nothing at all, for that matter.
>die off to end it
The conclusion is based on your arbitrary assumption, of course.

No pain is not good. If it's good why don't you stab yourself right now. Because pain is bad. And you wouldn't need to be driven further if you just didn't exist. Existing is the source of all these problems you're trying to hurdle over. Cut out the existing part and you're over it.

You're putting overdue importance on suffering.

Someone as equally bias as you but from the other side of the argument could say so what if I know my kid will be born into starvation and slavery and get beaten and raped by our masters every day but they might get to eat chocolate once like I did 10 years ago and it would be immoral for me to take that from them by not giving them life because finding happiness is so important.

Obviously a human life has varying degrees of suffering and happiness and a parent should try to maximise their kid towards the better end of the spectrum.

I bet OP is a 15 year old who just got dumped lol. His 'logic' and posts are making me cringe. You can really see his age through his weird thought process. That fucking flag doesn't help his case either.

Of course, I don't think everyone should be able to do everything. But you don't need boat loads of money to buy a suicide method. There is suffering in life. But it's not all suffering. Almost all of us got something to live for.

They don't have consent to give either hurr durrrr.