Pol has no arguments against this

this kikes have 0 selfawareness

It frees American to pursue other stuff. That's what they say anyways. They produce it better than us so we produce something with a competitive advantage of ours and we trade to our mutual benefit. That is the point. It is math, but it is not a concrete relationship nor is it, by default, in the average American's interest. Golly gee, we've given away our countries in the name of this false church and no one looks to measure the trends of the quality of life. Equalizing foreigners with Americans is in our GDP interest, but GDP is an anti-national metric.

>production moves overseas
>overseas decides to fuck us over
>"oops we don't have any production"
>economy crashes, overseas does fine

Never let your nation forget to grow its own food, produce its own natural resources, and manufacture its own goods. If you do forget to do those things, you're just a cuck for another nation, and they'll fuck you eventually

>But under free trade Americans can just by cheap shit abroad, instead of wasting resources producing it in the US. The saved resources than can be used on something else.
You mean things like a massive navy required to keep free trade, and by extension the entire global economy afloat?

Legalize slavery worldwide so companies can just pick the hardest working ones and not worry about cost.

But they don't have a reason to fuck you over, they rely on you buying the food
> global economy exists only because US navy protects it
Cringe

Cool! If they want to outsource labor to overseas feel free, but don't expect to compete tariff free with our domestic labor force :^)

OTHER COUNTRIES SUBSIDIZE THIS, CONSUMERS ARE NOT RATIONAL AND WILL NOT FIGHT AGAINST THE LOSING OF PEOPLE'S JOBS.

I'm really glad we shifted our manufacturing to other places with absolutely no environmental laws.
Then get told we should be taxed for global warming

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implying we need all this bullshit? internent food shelter and a family is all you need.

oh, and flood our countries with "refugees" due to climate change

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>OTHER COUNTRIES SUBSIDIZE THIS,
Thtats great, other countries literally give you money to buy their stuff for free.
>CONSUMERS ARE NOT RATIONAL
Thats quite irrelevant and is more of a philosophical question.
> WILL NOT FIGHT AGAINST THE LOSING OF PEOPLE'S JOBS.
Who gives a shit about some people losing unnecessary jobs, they can just find another one.

What are tariffs, you mong?

There are many ways to discourage people that want access to our markets from using indentured servants and ruining the environment in other parts of the world.

Yes I do. Your factory isn't worth shit with a bullet in your skull, and if you fuck up the country you live in enough, a bullet in your skull is what you will eventually get. Economics is not the only, nor even the most important thing that must be considered in this context.

>But they don't have a reason to fuck you over,
Every nation always has every reason to fuck every other nation over. The only reason they don't is because they can't get away with it.

Why not ?

Australian's are too entitled to 'muh minimum wage' , super and others employment benefits that make it hard to maintain a competitive edge.
Less capital for improvement, the more likely you get wiped out.

Brand loyalty is now a near thing of the past where cheap supplements are the desired outcome.
So why should companies show consumers loyalty by staying domestically?

If you value nothing in life but raw GDP numbers, then you are correct, there are no arguments. If you don’t treat economic systems like religions, then there are plenty of arguments against it.

It's a factual statement. There is nothing to argue against.

The real argument begins with this question, "Is this good for me?"

Globalists free traders
>We're moving your job to the third world
Also globalist free traders
>your country needs millions of immigrants from the third world

I dont disagree that you shouldn't trade with hostile nations like Russia or North Korea, but there is no reason to have tariffs against Canada or Mexico

Do any psychopaths in this thread actually believe that we're all better off when we prioritize consumerism and maximizing profit for multinationals instead of promoting the welfare of our own families?

You're not considering the externalities. Americans need more than just "cheap shit", namely jobs and wages with which to buy said cheap shit.
America is better with full employment and TVs costing an extra $10 than it is with 50% unemployment.

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>"Just learn to code you stupid Booker!"
(You)

Also if you're really making your economics assumptions based on rational actors then your opinions belong in one of two places, in econ 101 or in the trash.

Boomer*

That's why we have nafta

>So why should companies show consumers loyalty by staying domestically?
Just think if everyone company moved production away. How long before they start complaining that no one buys anything because no one has any money to pay them?

Economies are not more important than the people in them.
Fuck your damn greed.

It wasnt ideal, and Trump renegotiated it with even higher tariffs

Economy is family interacting with other families.
Anything you do to disturb the family will disturb the economy.
The outsourcing of jobs overseas helps people overseas, but destroys families here, thus limiting local and national economic power.
Hiring women is perhaps the biggest contributor to the downfall of Western economies, not just because they remove women from their duty of making and raising children (which btw is infinitely more productive for the economy), but because their entry into the job market has doubled the supply of labour while demand has been shrinking, ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING WAGES IN THE PROCESS.

>(((Cato)))
Oy vey why not bring back slavery since we're divorcing Business from Ethics now.

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Group A: We have more money so we'll pay you to make our goods
Group B: Sounds Good!

30 Years go by

Group A: B, why are you charging so much?
Group B: You don't know how to make it anymore

15 Years Later

Group B: Fuck these people are we slaves? Let's not do anything for them anymore
Group A: *dies*

American industry and jobs have been fucked, people are forced to leave their roots or face economic ruin, immigration is out the ass, but at least I can get cheap shit from Walmart right?

Fuck you.

>company leaves first world nation to make products in third world garbage country
>company thinks it should be allowed to sell it's products into first world country without paying the dead weight costs of labour laws and ecological regulations
Place tariffs on these products and they can piss off. In a first world country there are laws and regulations, if you run away to undercut our laws then the costs need to be recouped.

>Group B: You don't know how to make it anymore
What are you even talking about, to you lose technology because of freetrade or what?

>He actually thinks "they produce it better than us"
>He also thinks "we trade to our mutual benefit"

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>oy vey think of the poor global corporations and their profits!
>don't try to stop them from fucking your country over!

(((Efficiency)))=Cheap 3rd world labour

The nation should protect its workers

Yeah, because his job isn't to get rid of tariffs for every country on the planet in a misguided attempt to build murray rothbard's wet dream of a stateless corpo-world, it's to support and protect the interests of the united states of america. If that means screwing another country over, all the better.

>American industry and jobs have been fucked
Just find a non-industry job
> people are forced to leave their roots
Who gives a shit, just move to a big city.
> immigration is out the ass
Thats a different issue
> but at least I can get cheap shit from Walmart right?
Yes, you are right, you cannot substitute material goods with something immaterial.

So its a race to the bottom of who can produce more crap for cheaper?

Over time the skills and methods will be lost.

Or maybe just remove meaningless regulations at home

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>hey guys lets bring back child labour, indentured servitude, and dump raw chemical waste into our rivers once again

No.

>Just find a non-industry job
>Who gives a shit, just move to a big city.
>Thats a different issue
>you cannot substitute material goods with something immaterial.

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can't argue with retarded
>meme flag
gys

The only real problem youve mentioned is pollution, but you can solve it by privatising the rivers.

In some cases, in other cases the regulations are there to keep standards like safety. Industries that deliberately undercut the laws of a nation to save money need to have a financial burden placed on their products entering the country, they need to pay the fee to enter a first world market. This is the only way to implement true fair trade.

>everything has to be done as efficiently as possible
How about you go fuck yourself instead?

How does taxing people for buying foreign stuff and maintaining unnecessary jobs help collective wellbeing?

>i'm a psychopath

Don't worry, the meme flag gave it away.

If I decide to mug you it's not because I'm asshole, it's just cheaper and more effective.

>but you can solve it by privatising the rivers.

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Herein lies the case for Australian goods.
If we were able to lower the min wage and expected wage of these basic jobs we would be able to provide local manufacturing once again.

I say this as someone owning a small manufacturing firm and as the child of a large state manufacturer. But it just isn't feasible to turn a profit here anymore, our workers would be getting the better deal.

Now imagine the Americans win their "fight for 15" Campaign, compare 15 USD to 18.96 AUD....

We will have a serious problem, and the most publically approved course of action will be to raise our wages to a comparable level.

Except the moral argument. China has a very evil government. Everything we buy from China can be made in other countries — countries less evil. The whole world needs to shun China.

The vast majority of consumers don't know where or what their product is made out of. That's why we usually have gateways such as reviewers, regulators, testing laboratories, etc to prevent all this shit. But since all this is being eroded away by corruption, idiots and bribery, it's all falling apart.

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For example, China selling you teacups for cheap. Obviously, any local manufacturer can't compete with them, and sooner or later they either go bankrupt or would be bought by Chinese and closed. After some time, nobody in your country will know how to make teacups. And then, say there will be a trade war with China, and they obviously will stop selling you teacups, and nobody in the country will know how to make them and won't have instruments and factories to do this.
Of course, if it's something simple like teacups, you can figure how and what to do out of books and internet, and your government may even invest money into it. But if it's something high-tech, it won't be simply, and it will be very hard, if not outright impossible. And if it's something very critical for the country's functioning, and there won't be any alternatives anywhere else (or they slide with China/take neutral stance), you will be fucked.
We had this shit in 90s.

I actually agree with this, but there are better countries to trade with

>a very evil government
Protip: they and most of the rest of the world think the same of you.

>Less capital for improvement, the more likely you get wiped out.
I think you mean less capital for stock buybacks and CEO benefits.

>unnecessary jobs

Holy fucking shit is this your mind on ancap?

>globalism

>you can solve it by privatising the rivers

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Please, even with all your CIA fuckery, Americans can't keep up with the soulless Chicoms when it comes to systemic evils.

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someone turn this into a screencap meme

There are lots of jobs which disappeared in the past

It doesn't have arguments because this board has been castrated and is flooded and modded by a bunch of chumps

You can invite Chinese to build factories, or just by their tech

>What are tariffs, you mong?
Taxes on your own citizens

His argument is that the jobs can be done cheaper elsewhere, meaning there is an unnecessary waste of resources happening. IE why pay $8 an hour if you can get the same work done for $2 an hour. The $6 difference could be used for some other purpose, which is an increase in efficiency.

The error occurs because this scenario assumes all peoples are the same, which they aren't. The goals of the Chinese are not the goals of the US, which are not the goals of Germany, ad infinitum. In a world of competing nation states, efficiency as an end goal by means of cooperation between nation states is irrational, as the goal of a nation-state is not efficiency, but the safety and security of its composite nation.

According to you, a canadian. I'm willing to bet a fair number of chinese might disagree.

Yes, they will certainly agree after spending time in a reeducation camp. Anyone who disagrees after that, well, pic related.

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Meanwhile, chinese wages have octupled in the past 15 years.

The chinese government derives its legitimacy from a simple promise: "As long as we're in charge, your life will get better."

So far, that's been true for them, which is why the CCP is still in power. However, with their economy sputtering in the wake of 2008 and likely being hit very hard by the coming recession, whether or not they can keep fulfilling that promise remains to be seen.

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The economy should serve the people, not the other way around. Profit for the sake of profit is no valid measure of national progress.

More like: "As long as you don't question that we are in charge, you get to live."

People are forced to let state officials live with them to monitor them, sent to camps to be "reeducated", straight up disappeared, or gunned down in the streets. I wouldn't trust a single statistic that come out of the hell hole.

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The problem is, you prioritize interests of nation-states, but I prioritise individuals and their voluntary associations. But even 2 nation states can help eacch other by doing something the other cannot more efficiently.

Sure, but they're making more money than they did 10 years ago. The people aren't revolting en masse (yet), so obviously the benefits outweigh the costs for the chinese people. Ultimately the measure of injustice is what people are willing to tolerate, and the Chinese are more than willing to tolerate everything you've said provided their nation prospers.

Yes, that's your mistake. Humans aren't primarily individuals. We are social creatures that can have the capacity to display individual distinctions. There are plenty of animals which are born alone, live alone, and die alone. They are true individuals. They are biological and evolutionary individualists. They inherit nothing. We do. We learn our language, our culture, our history, and our values from our parents and our communities. And when there are enough communities together, we call them a nation. Before we are David, John, Elise, or Katie, we are "The Smith's new baby boy." Before we say "I am an individual", we say "Mama". Because without her, to teach you, to feed you, to protect you, and to give you a home and a place to belong, you would have died hours after being born.

Even those of us who deny these simple truths do so because of the values instilled in them by their cultures. You think you can leave your nation, but as Andre Malraux said, "we all leave our nations in very national ways". Born another time, another place, the idea of leaving your nation would be unthinkable. None of us escape the necessity of love of one's own. Those that think they do are only kidding themselves.

They have revolted before, they were shot.

And if trading with them might increase the wages for some of them, assuming they are even telling the truth about that, it also funds the literal death squads and Orwellian surveillance systems that keep them all in line.

>They have revolted before, they were shot.
Well then obviously not enough of them thought it was worth revolting. There are many, many more citizens than there are police or military men. If all the Chinese agreed their government was evil, it would be gone tomorrow. They do not.

I would remind you that US citizens have revolted on more than one occasion, and they were shot as well. The civil war was a revolt of US citizens against an oppressive government, if you asked the confederates. They were put down. Revolts don't matter. What matters is the mass of the people. And if your revolt doesn't have their backing, it is not a revolt worth mentioning.

And those stats aren't just coming from the Chinese government, they come from businesses that operate in China. They are accurate, Chinese wages have exploded in the past two decades along with their GDP.

kill yourself shill rat

Where's the problem?

Bullets are how you argue with that. These people will destroy the planet and all the people who live on it if they are allowed to continue with this "muh permanent economic growth" poison.

Done

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maybe include some memey replies as well in the screencap

they just use $2 a day chinese labor and we all lose our jobs. ching chong makes and extra dollar a day and some jew makes a few extra shekels. everyone else in america loses.

>if they aren't overthrown the people must simply be too happy to do anything

I see now you are delusional.

The governments that Americans and Europeans overthrew in the past would have had wet dreams about the types of surveillance, the kinds of weaponry, and the level of indoctrination that the Chicoms have access to. Just because you can't win a fight against someone doesn't mean you're happy doing what they tell you to do.

Yes, slavery is the goal of capitalism. Is this a defense or something?

i acknowledge it is in the best interests of a company to use slave wages to maximize profits. and i hope when the time comes the people in control of those companies acknowledges flaying the skin from their bodies is in the best interests of the people

I never said they were happy. I said more of them are content with the status quo than aren't. They certainly could win that fight, and they likely will as soon as the obvious inability of the Chinese government to control the backslide of their economy during a recession in global demand becomes apparent. But that means a return to regionalism and poverty. If the Chinese people chose that over oppression, so be it. It is neither my business nor yours, and why you think you know better than the Chinese what is best for the Chinese is beyond me. No modern government exists without the tacit endorsement of the people. The simple fact is that most chinese will chose "oppression" and wealth over a lifetime of working in rice fields, which is what they all did before the CCP showed up. If the wealth dries up however, you're more likely to see your desired "revolt."

Well, I agree, thats why I put voluntarily associations there as well, but nation-states are both artificial and involuntarily associations