Prove me wrong:
I posit that the EU as an idea is not a horrible one.
But that in its drive to be the driver of Europe (natural or nationalist can be argued by others) Germany and EU member banks jumped into forcing trade equalization long before the EU population was acquainted with each other.
As such, the normalization of expectations is being met with sane and rightful resistance and resentment.
I suggest that if the EU is going to survive, at all, it must drop the pretext of free trade and shared equalization bank, and return to a simple open borders contract.
The people of Europe need to have more exposure and more common experiences before they can comfortably begin to engage in giving a rat's ass about what happens 2.5k km away.
Prove me wrong, or expose my shortcomings.
Did the EU Jump Too Far, Too Soon?
Brexit won't happen and the EU of the east will be like the eastern roman empire.
interesting times ahead
UK who?
Does this imply a new model of European civilization?
If we had kept it to the six founding members, we would have a federal state by now.
fritz you don't remember? we are kicking your arse for the 3rd time in a century, i think you have PTSD leading to memory loss
>Italy
>Axis
Third time's the charm
There are 3 problems in the EU:
A. it never imposed one single common language
B. it did not impose a first-past-the-post election system for the EU Parliament (the “House”) and a senator first-past-the-post system for the EU Council and a US style presidential election for the EU government (the Commission)
C. it never agreed on a wall and wall machine guns around the EU to keep illegals out
So you agree that it went too far?
Would a tighter core establish a market worth joining so that if certain members were allowed (or forced) to step out of the economic ties, they would still desire to come back in?
Also, who would you include in such?
I would suggest you should split chambers, much like the US used to do. Have one chamber which operates on popular vote, and another chamber which is elected by the member State. This allows a professional board, and a popular board, and the two assist in bringing all sides and concerns. I am, of course, a burger, so I'm biased.
>So you agree that it went too far?
yes, but it's too late now
the best way forward is to roll back the power of the EU parliament and commission, and focus on free trade
>A. it never imposed one single common language
No, it did not, and I think for good reason. But what language would you have suggested, and why??
Also, income inequality across borders creates excessive migration which causes friction. They just had to wait 20 years for income to get more even before implementing free movement so that migration would have been more controlled. Alternatively, a free movement zone could have been established for countries that reach 75% of the average EU gdp per capita, allowing further countries to join when they surpass the threshold.
>focus on free trade
so maintain the EU as currency?
would you suggest all nations remain in as well?
>excessive migration
ahh, yes, and I think maybe I spoke without clarity in my thoughts on this. I believe open borders travel was the only starting point, not open migration choices.
all that want to stay can stay. keep the euro but with a very conservative ECB (ideally it would be gold backed, but there is no chance for that)
But, if we believe that they did move soon on this, what should be done now?
Will the populations continue to shift back and forth as boom-busts move from scarcity to opportunity and then push into over-population/job shortages, making previously abandoned territories worth returning?
Should they shut down the open migration options and return to national chosen filters?
The EU is there to destroy every single Countries culture in Europe they are openly globalist and do not simply give a shit about any other Country or any "democratic" vote considering they're Elitist who are just looking a way to get more of the tax Money.
Any Country that stays in the EU will have their Culture removed and it will turn into a USA 2.0
The EU is an ambitious divide and conquer operation, they were never supposed to function as a legitimate political entity. All the EU does is provide plausible cover for (((them))) to tear Europe apart and create conflict within its borders
In my opinion just wait it out. Eastern European countries are developing much faster than the average and the gap is closing. Poland is a good example of this, I think polish migrants will start coming back home en masse pretty soon. In 10 years this won't be an issue anymore for most countries. Maybe just for Bulgaria and Romania, those two might need 20 years, but at this point it's probably just easier to wait.
Pardon for my delay in reply, because I don't want to minimize what I cannot fully understand, I am, after all, not knee deep in the event.
How should this be dealt with, let's say from your perspective? Would you argue they are not experiencing "positive economic benefits? What should Germany do?
Your friend makes a fair point. You've taken the history of these people, the things that made them successful, and washed them into a mass of foreign faces and cultures, which now not only have to learn to get along, they have to struggle to decide which cultural "features" will be adopted into the future.
These create some real risks, is that fair to assess?
The only thing the EU be is what it was supposed to stay as a TRADING UNION not a retarded wannabe Superpower that turns Europe into a single Country.
should be*
Sure, but there are two big counter-arguments here:
1. Most of the cultural shock comes from migration from outside of the EU, European migrants tend to integrate quite well (at least in Germany). With most of them you can't even tell if they're from here or not until they speak and you hear the accent.
2. As the income gap closes, migrants will not have the economic incentive anymore to stay in the countries they've migrated to and many will come back to their places of origin. Having free movement of people in a union where there is no economic incentive to migrate should not be an issue. Most people simply won't move, and the few that will do won't cause much trouble as they'll simply adapt to the places they move to.
There's no need to turn Europe into a single country, but there is need to be a Superpower if we are to defend ourselves in the hard times to come. You just don't understand how heavily outnumbered we are, and papa US is not going to save our ass next time (in part because they're also heavily outnumbered). Creating a political union is the smart choice. No one is telling you to renounce your culture, and I sincerely hope we don't lose our cultural differences between different countries because it's one of the most enjoyable things about Europe.
>Most of the cultural shock comes from migration from outside of the EU.
Is it fair to say that you have had a broader selection of genes at work since Wilhelm, and are, perhaps, more culturally immune to variations of cultural choices?
>the few that will do won't cause much trouble as they'll simply adapt
I find Turkey to be a serious problem in such integration, but I am openly biased against Islam.
>First world Countries
>Getting attacked in the times of Nukes
Lmao yeah right the EU was the reason there was never a War instead of nukes right? /s
EU shitheads can fuck off and stop calling themself Right wing or Nationalistic they're quite the opposite and if there will be an union where German tax money is being spent on other Countries or where the German military will have to fight for other Countries then that union can die just like the EU can die.
No, their cultures are simply not so different, we share the same values in most things. I don't have a good opinion about Islam and I believe we should keep countries that are openly islamic out of the union. Their cultures are just too different and they would cause too much friction.
>"you suck and the EU can die"
Solid arguments there, friend. It's not about nuclear war, it's about economic war and also a military war of attrition that does not escalate to an open war but leaves us in the same ugly spot anyway. Germany is small and growing smaller by the day. Grow up and face the facts, we're not a world superpower anymore.
>Did the EU Jump Too Far, Too Soon?
Jews always jew too far and jew themselves in the end, hence the rapid rise in JQ and rejection of (((globalism))).
>we share the same values in most things.
Oh man imagine the suprise that the Union turned all these Countries into a lifeless copy of eachother!! can you imagine that they all nowadays look the same?? that is such an amazing coincidence!
And yes you Suck and so does the EU so you both deserve the same fate.
>we share the same values in most things
High and Low German still a thing?
>too different and they would cause too much friction.
You say it far more diplomatically than I think it.
The EU have a split house already. FYI The American system is based on European style, see the British house of lords/house of commons for the origins of the US senate/representatives with a dash of French republicanism.
Much to the French's disgust English is the common/business language in the EU administration.
Iroquois Republicanism. The French had a Monarchy when we split. But yes, our Constitution is an extension of the Magna Carta.
Now-a-days, it's more akin to Marx and Gentile, but that's another thread of its own.
I agree with a split chamber approach, But in both cases it needs to be based on a first past the post system rather than party lists
Either English or German. English because it is spoken worldwide, German would make sense because it is spoken nowhere but Europe. So English if the EU wanted to have immigration from around the world, German if it didn’t want any immigration.
Latin to English is a harder shift than German to English. I can't imagine the shifts from Slavic to either.
oh... here is another Bavarian pic
I think the native Indians are given more credit than they deserve, but fair points. I am with you completely that the EU went far too far, far too fast. The UK signed up for the EEC in 1973. That is what we wanted and would want to be in again.
So Coalition government is a failing idea?
What issues has it brought that bring you to this idea?
Should I be excited by the strength of the horse or the woman? Neither one, frankly, looks particularly impressive. I do like the stripes and seal location.
Thanks to the previous work of the empire and lately a lot more due to the influence of your own Hollywood the whole world speaks at least a little English. It is the second language of both East and West Europe.
You guys still have a few nations to go for 100% invasion rates? Would be cheering for you, if we weren't already in some of those, I think.
We'll keep up the good work.
So you will not miss the UK if/when they go?
Do you think they can leave if/when they want?
The little Axel Rose. So sweet!
Hmm, must be another thread about titties somewhere... Guess I'll have to check the Catalog.
Welp, guess that's that.