How do I get a girlfriend without making the first move?

Where is it ok to ask girls out?

Well I'm not scared of social rejection. I can walk into any room and strike up a conversation just fine. I can go to bars alone and make new friends in a night. I don't care what people think of me, I live for myself.

But I am terrified of romantic rejection, I just can't do it under any circumstances. I don't know why, considering I'm not afraid of any other form of rejection.

user, maybe you should try some therapy or something? Not to sound rude but you don't sound mentally ready to be in a romantic relationship. Because in relationships bad stuff can happen, much worse than getting rejected by some chick you don't know that well yet...

Good luck with that

I asked out a guy without him having to do much but that's because I felt crazy attracted to him and was impatient. Most girls even if they're really into a guy are still too scared or just don't believe in breaking the 'rules' in dating.

It's hard and rejection really hurts but if you want a girlfriend, and in general anything in life, be prepared to take risks and just fucking do it

I lost my virginity to a girl I was completely oblivious to her interest in me. Until we got drunk and she basically threw herself at me

Glad to see you ignored my question and just repeated the same line of denial. Can you asnwer my question now?

>what if she asks you out, sees you are not what she thought, and wants to stop seeing you? Isn't that rejection, too?

Tinder, parties and crap where they flirt with you (either first or because you flirted and they flirt back), same with friends and people you know, if you see they arevinterestedit's fine to ask them out.

As long as you don't go for strangers shoping or on the bus, and as long as you flirt first (or go to Tinder where it's expected to be asked out) then it's fine.

Well I'm not scared or stressed by "bad things happening" in a relationship. I'm not a child, I know about the realities of life. I just have a very specific isolated and intense fear of being rejected by a girl. It's not my fault. I don't know how or why I developed this fear, but I can't get rid of it no matter how hard I try. Like I said I have put myself in countless awkward social situations over the years to improve my conversational skills and become desensitised to rejection, and while I have now become basically invincible when it comes to social rejection, romantic rejection still petrifies me

You’re not worth having a girlfriend then, pussy.

>what if she asks you out, sees you are not what she thought, and wants to stop seeing you? Isn't that rejection, too?

Well, in a sense. However user, I have never even come close to that scenario. No girl has ever expressed interest in me, let alone asked me out, and I have never been on a date. So while I would be sad if she dated me once and then dropped me, I think I would still be very grateful and elated that after so many years, a girl finally liked me and went on a date with me.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, man, you've NEVER dealt with rejection before, have you?

>I think I would still be very grateful and elated that after so many years, a girl finally liked me and went on a date with me.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

>I just have a very specific isolated and intense fear of being rejected by a girl. It's not my fault.
Like some user before said, maybe the fear itself is not your fault but submitting to this fear is your fault (and your choice too). I'm serious, try therapy. Because in reality waiting for some girl to approach you is... a pointless waste of time.

If you elevate your lifestyle enough and stay social, its very possible. Instead of chasing after woman directly, claw your way to the top of the local food chain and woman will take notice.

I've never seen a girl be interested in me. Usually they seem to avoid eye contact regardless of the situation. I was on Tinder for a week and got a few matches but no replies. I'm so lost.

This really isn't necessary user. You don't need to mock me

Is is possible to get therapy for the specific and isolated purpose of being terrified of romantic rejection?

I don't really need therapy for any other purpose.

If you need a therapist to tell you to stop being a faggot and get over rejection, you're a failure as a human being

I ask guys out but that's because I like autistic guys who are much hotter than me.

Unless you're an 8/10 and you're fine with dating a 5/10, then heehhh.

>This really isn't necessary user. You don't need to mock me

Yes I do. You are talking like a child. How old are you? You are so sure sbout things you have no idea about.

You don't know if you can handle a rejection, and you don't know if you can handle a girl leaving you. Be humble enough to admit your ignorance.

Are you open to something happening or do you close up in your fear? With a low self-esteem, you probably ignore any signs you get and think you just imagined them or something.

I'm 22. No, I don't know if I can "handle" a girl leaving me, but why do I even have to worry about that at the moment? I've never even been on a date, it's too early to start worrying about what happens AFTER a hypothetical date.

My problem is rejection, and not feeling attractive, and feeling like no girls want me. If I went on a date and got rejected after, then yes it would be sad, maybe even very sad, but at least I will have been on a date, which is more than I can say right now.

You shouldn't avoid rejection. It hurt me so bad I stopped caring about even having a gf.

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>My problem is rejection,

You haven't been rejected yet, how do you know that's your problem?

It kinda sounds like your problem is not feeling good enough.

Well whenever I think about the idea of being rejected by a girl, I start to feel a bit sick, I start shaking, my body temperature and heart rate increase, I get really really anxious. And that's just from thinking about it, not even doing it.

I've tried to psyche myself up to approach a girl but I just can't do it. I can't override the voices in my head that tell me not to do it. And because no girls ever show even the slightest amount of interest in me, it's basically impossible, because I never get any encouragement.

So, you think the idea of domeone getting to know you and only then deciding to leave won't make you feel as bad?

>And because no girls ever show even the slightest amount of interest in me, it's basically impossible, because I never get any encouragement.

Yes, the famous incel line. Why don't girls do everything for me?

I'll let you in on a secret. A bit of attention wouldnt penetrate the layers of self doubt you carry around. You have to break those yourself.

I can't possibly know how I would feel if a girl dated and then rejected me. The idea of even going on a date with a girl in the first place is so far outside the realm of possibility for me that I can't even comprehend what would happen afterwards.

All I know is that my current situation, in which I have been on NO dates AT all and never received ANY interest from women, is really dark and lonely and depressing. So if I could add just one date on to that, at least I would have something positive on my "dating resume" so to speak

And I never said I want girls to do everything for me. But they don't do ANYTHING for me. Like I said, they don't even show interest. Why should I be expected to do 100% of the work all by myself? Can't they flirt with me a bit and then I take it from there?

Enjoy living alone.

PSA: don't bother anons, this lad has serious mommy issues and he won't change his ways/get medical help. So right now he is basically throwing himself a pity party and attention whoring for (You)s and we are validating him by responding to him. Trying to help him is futile my fellow anons, this lad has been posting for ages about his "problem" and no amount of advice goes through his thick narcissistic skull.

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Completely delusional.

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Fucking Brandon.

No one here is able to give me adequate advice

Telling me "go ask out girls" is not adequate advice when:
1. Girls show no interest in me
and 2. My fear of rejection is so strong and overpowering that it is impossible for me to ask out girls without them showing interest first

Obviously I'm open to it. I can't remember ever getting a non-transactional smile from a girl.

>No one here is able to give me adequate advice
Wrong. No one here is able to give you the advice you want to hear, which is probably some quick & ingenious fix. Of course this kind of a solution simply doesn't exist (but you refuse to believe it), and the only sensible advice - to seek medical help for your pathological self-esteem issues - is something you shrug off. What do you expect from these threads, really? Some femanon coming her and sweeping you off your feet?

You’re approaching this backwards, nigga.

You see women can smell your fear of rejection and are turned off by that.

You can only have a gf if you overcome your fear of rejection first.

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You don't get to decide what advice is adequate or not when you come here asking for it. You're not paying for a product you don't get to decide whether it's up to your standards or not you gigantic fucking baby
>My fear of rejection is so strong and overpowering that it is impossible for me to ask out girls without them showing interest first
Maybe girls don't like you because you don't have any fucking testicles you pathetic bugman

>My fear of rejection is so strong and overpowering that it is impossible for me to ask out girls without them showing interest first
Yeah I don't care. Normies have no sympathy for scared guys because we go out and get shot down all the fucking time. Way, WAY more than we're successful. We know exactly what it is you're afraid of, and it's a trivial thing.

>But they don't do ANYTHING for me.

If they did, you couldn't believe it. It's so outside the real of posibility that you would run away from it.

>Can't they flirt with me a bit and then I take it from there?

Why would they flirt with someone as scared as you?

You can't even imagine it, I doubt you are really open to it. You need to eork on tjat self esteem mate.

I remember a similar thread not too long ago. You have received quality advice, which echoes previous threads you have made on this subject. You refuse to accept it. You don't want help, you want validation in your belief.
Here is what you should do; Never approach a girl, wait until they approach you. In order to have a chance at this you need be Chad, with status and money of which you will need to actively flaunt. But guess what? you aren't and will never be. Have fun being lonely.

>No one here is able to give me adequate advice

You are asking something impossible.

1) No, there's no way to make sure girls come to you, all you can do is wait.

2) Girls won't wase their time with someone so scared of doing the wrong thing that he does nothing.

3) You'd still be needy and possesive when dating, and it would devastate to lose your gf because you are just not comfortable with yourself, a girl can't change that.

The only way I can improve my self-esteem is if girls start showing interest in me. That's the only thing holding me back. I don't feel attractive. And the reason I don't feel attractive is because girls never show interest in me

You get shot down sure, but you get at least some successes. I get NO successes in my ENTIRE LIFE. So our situations are not exactly comparable

You don't have any proof that I would "run away from it". It's been a very, very long time since a girl last expressed interest in me, and I was a lot younger and more anxious when that happened. I don't know what my reaction would be today, but I'm pretty sure I'd handle it better

>2) Girls won't wase their time with someone so scared of doing the wrong thing that he does nothing.

Okay, you people keep suggesting that girls have magical mind reading abilities that enable them to instantly and completely view all of my fears and insecurities just from a 5 minute conversation with me. I don't know how I can prove this to you, but I am certain that that is NOT the case

Most girls presume I am not a virgin. I have female friends who are convinced I have sex at least semi-regularly because they have asked me innocently before "are you seeing anyone at the moment" and I just play coy about it.

Despite all of this, girls still don't flirt with me. I don't know why.

>need someone else to give you self esteem
Jesus what a fucking loser
SELF-esteem. Key word being self.
You have to like yourself you retard

>Why don't you just like yourself despite being a 22 year old virgin who has never been on a date and hasn't had a girl express romantic interest in them in at least 2 years

Please tell me you realise how difficult this is. Please

>I get NO successes in my ENTIRE LIFE

You also never try.

>It's been a very, very long time since a girl last expressed interest in me, and I was a lot younger and more anxious when that happened.

I knew it had already happened! What else would you do? You are too scared to try.

>The only way I can improve my self-esteem is if girls start showing interest in me.

You don't know that. Admit you don't have everything figured out. I know you are scared and I know you run away or outright ignore attention, but you don't know if a gf would solve your issues. Spoiler: It won't. You'll still be sad and worry all the time.

Maybe, just maybe, they are flirting with you when they inquire about your availability.

>The only way I can improve my self-esteem is if girls start showing interest in me.
That is not normal. The fact that you need/want to rely on other people to have any self-esteem at all is not normal. It is something you should discuss with your fucking therapist. There must be something very fucking wrong with your head if you don't have any sense of self worth. This makes me think that you were abused as a child, sexually or in whatever other way.

See that? That's you hating yourself because of something of your own making
That is the opposite of self-esteem
Jesus christ man grow the fuck up and stop basing your opinions of yourself off of what other people think.
Hate being a virgin so much? Do something about it
Whining on Jow Forums about how unfair life is will get you nowhere

>I get NO successes in my ENTIRE LIFE.

>It's been a very, very long time since a girl last expressed interest in me

Tell me again how you never get attention.

You must learn to love yourself by yourself first instead of expecting others to love you on your behalf. No one is willing to do that for you.

Because if you don’t love you, no one will.

I have hope you’ll overcome this.

"It" already happened yes, but YEARS ago. When I was a teenager. And they never actually came outright and said "I am attracted to you and want to date you" so I presumed that their interest wasn't real or that I was misinterpreting friendly signals for flirty ones

The girls who asked me those kind of questions include
>A girl in a relationship
>A girl who was in an on/off relationship for ages who flirted with me but then stopped flirting with me when she became properly single
>A girl who had shown literally no possible signs of interest in me and was probably just making conversation

So I doubt it

I have self-worth. But I have a complex about the fact that I am a 22 year old dateless virgin. I will not have proper confidence until the day this curse is lifted from me

I just want to go on a date with a girl and have a fucking normal life. Why is that too much to ask for?

It's been 2+ years since it last happened. And I didn't get anything from any of those occurrences because all those girls were too shy and so they just hinted at me for months without actually doing anything. Some of them I never knew liked me until a mutual friend informed me months after the fact.

In the past 2 years, its been nothing. No interest, no flirting, no girls crushing on me. And it makes no sense because I am fitter, better looking, better dressed and more confident and charismatic than I was when those girls used to crush on me

I cannot fully love myself while I am a dateless virgin. Sorry. That just isn't going to happen. I am never going to be content with being a dateless virgin

>In the past 2 years, its been nothing. No interest, no flirting, no girls crushing on me.

It probably happened and you ignored it lile you did here:

>so I presumed that their interest wasn't real or that I was misinterpreting friendly signals for flirty ones

That's sad. Self love is about yourself, not about dating.

>Why is that too much to ask for?
Life doesn't give you shit because you think you deserve it
You dont deserve anything. If you want something you need to shut the fuck up and take what you want. You think your ancestor ever bitched and moaned about how awful living in his day was? No he got over it and fucked some woman who gave birth to some other loser who fucked another girl and eventually you were born
You're not special, you're not unique and life doesn't owe you anything other than cold death at the end of your life. So quit bitching and go do something you loser

>And they never actually came outright and said "I am attracted to you and want to date you"
Nobody says stuff like this irl so if thats what youre waiting for... you can just as well join the eternal incel club

Well it's impossible to know. In the past whenever a girl crushed on me I would usually hear about it through a mutual friend. In the past 2 years that hasn't happened.

Imagine if there was something that you really really wanted to do, that everyone else was able to do with ease, but society forbade you from doing for no good reason at all. Wouldn't you be upset about that? Wouldn't you question "why is this happening to me?"

Do what? What do I need to do?

Well I can't deal with all this beating around the bush and hinting. I need a girl to spell it out for me. If she's just going to hint and suggest things without coming out and saying it, then I'm just going to assume she isn't interested.

>you can just as well join the eternal incel club

Is it really "involuntary" when he isthe one causing it with his impossible demands?

How am I supposed to do that? My life is good in every other way. Girls have never taken any interest me.

>I would usually hear about it through a mutual friend. In the past 2 years that hasn't happened.

Because you are no in high school anymore. Try being an adult.

>but society forbade you from doing for no good reason at all.

How is society forbidding you? You are the one that doesn't want to try!

>I need a girl to spell it out for me.

But you would never show anty interest, so why do you deserve what you are not willing to give?

Bullshit. If you really had a good life you wouldn't be a spineless, lazy coward that wants girls to do everything for him.

I'm not OP and I don't want them to do everything for me. I can't just approach them out of the blue, though.

>society forbade you from doing for no good reason at all
So now it is society's fault that you can't grow some balls?
Let me sum it up:
you can't deal with asking someone out
you can't deal with rejection
you can't deal with taking action after getting hints that a girl is interested in you
Is there anything you *can* deal with?

You are right, this fag is even worse than most incels
at least we know he won't breed and spread his shitty genes/mental illness

>Do what? What do I need to do?
I don't know? Why is your life so worthless? Why do you suck with women? Why are you wasting time on this board asking for advice you won't follow?
You know what you have to do to improve your life a lot better than I do. So again
Shut the fuck up and go better yourself

>I can't just approach them out of the blue, though.

You shouldn't approach out of the blue. You should flirt and do it in places like parties and social gathering where it's expected.

And if you are not OP, then you need to explain your situation more. We don't know you, dude.

Follow the reply chain from my last post.

I've never received a lick of interest from girls. They never even look at me in the eye, much less smile. How am I supposed to approach anyone like that?

get less ugly

In that same chain I explained to you that you are probably in denial. You, like OP, are hypercritical of yourself and can't imagine a girl being into you. So, like OP, you are too closed off to invite or even pick up on any interest.

Deal with your self esteem issues.

My only self-esteem issues arise from the lack of attraction from girls. I'm almost done with my degree, I have a pretty good job, a few really close friends and I'm in a decent shape. How am I supposed to find self-esteem?

Yet again
You're blaming women for being a loser
It
is
not
their
fault
you're
a
loser

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm trying to understand why I'm invisible to girls everywhere. It's obviously my fault.

>My only self-esteem issues arise from the lack of attraction from girls.

Again, bullshit! Get a therapist to help you drag down the root of your fear, but it clearly goes deeper than just "girls don't like me!". PLenty of guys get rejected all the time and keep trying. Even virgin creepos keep trying, so it's not just the rejection.

So I _am_ supposed to approach them without even a hint? Make up your mind.

>I've never received a lick of interest from girls. They never even look at me in the eye, much less smile. How am I supposed to approach anyone like that?

You're blaming women fuck off you idiot.

I'm blaming myself for being so repugnant that no woman ever finds me attractive. I'm trying to change that.

You need to get rid of the mental blocks you have. You need to get rid of the denial that makes you feel unloved and unseen. You need to grow some self respect.

Doing all of those things is and internal process that you must perform, helped by a therapist if possible so it's less taxing. Girls don't enter into the equation until after you've faced your issues.

That's a complete non-answer. I have no idea how to even begin to do something like that.

THERAPY
E
R
A
P
Y

You think you're going to change that by asking people on Jow Forums how you can fix yourself? How about you fuck off you idiot

Self reflection, mostly. Get therapy.

How are my demands impossible?

Look, okay, two years ago it WAS my fault. I had a handful of experiences where girls displayed semi-clear interest in me and I didn't reciprocate, even though I really liked them back, because they didn't actually say "I like you" and so I kept coming up with excuses as to why they weren't actually flirting and were just being friendly. That was my fault, I get it.

But for the past 2 years how is it my fault? I'm more attractive than I was before, in better shape, more confident, more charismatic, and I know a LOT more girls. But no one shows interest in me. I don't even have a chance to correct my past mistakes.

Do you want me to approach girls without them showing interest in me? Is that what you want?

I just want a girl to flirt with me, and I'm pretty sure I can take it from there. I know that in the past I failed at that, but I've learned my lesson now. I want another chance. But no girls flirt with me anymore, so I don't know what to do.

>I don't know what to do
start flirting with them and see how they react
just don't use cold approach

How can you say that the problem is mental? How can you say with absolute certainty that I'm misreading the signs?

Yeah, this is Jow Forums. You ask for advice here.

>How are my demands impossible?

You demand emotional honesty while not being willing to provide it back. You want them to show unambiguous interest while you won't do it yourself.

>Do you want me to approach girls without them showing interest in me? Is that what you want?

No, flirt, socialize, show interest, open up. Be emotionally available.

>How can you say that the problem is mental? How can you say with absolute certainty that I'm misreading the signs?

Becuase we read what you write.

But you weren't there. I know when a person looks at me in the eye or smiles. It is not hard.

>I know when a person looks at me in the eye or smiles.

Has it ever happened?

just fuck off now

Yes, by a male or a cashier. Should I hit on cashiers from now on?

Soon, my friend.

>Yes, by a male or a cashier.

Why did they smile to you?

In the case of other men it was because we were having fun together. For the cashiers, it's transactional and a part of their job.

>In the case of other men it was because we were having fun together.

Why can't you have fun with women?