My girlfriend’s friend is really sensitive and easily triggered...

Rape jokes have their time and place and unlike most I love that shit (the jokes), but this was just pathetic on every level. Having to beg for validation on 4chains shows how much of a faggot you are too.

Is it really that bad when the victim isn't the butt of the joke? What if a rape survivor tells it?

>And I prefer to avoid interacting with her over this. Am I justified?
Yea. People who always make themselves victims are basically just bullies who are too weak to bully.

thats your opinion.. i dont think opinions justify responses, only facts

>I'm a fairly chill chick when it comes to hanging with guys, but a rape is an untouchable topic. A man who jokes about it will kill any respect or connection I had with him. If I was in your girl's shoes, I would never forget this remark, no matter how you made amends. My trust and/or respect would be permanently crippled.

Your opinion.

I'm of the opinion that no subject is off limits when it comes to comedy with the exception of events that may be too early
(tragedy+time=comedy.)

Humor is supposed to make the world a livable place DESPITE how awful the world is. Talking about the awful things and being able to laugh is a part of transcending the human condition. Human beings are capable of rationalizing intent, if someone is trying to get a laugh out of you its more than likely they are trying to connect.

Maybe it's with other rapists, but I'd like to think that usually it's with other people in general.

For the record the opinion is his to keep, modify, double down on or whatever

The point of contention is that he didn't explain why he doesn't like her friend, but rather made a nonsensical joke that could only be explained with the mindset "false accusers are sensitive sallies therefore she is the type to falsely accuse," which hopefully tells you how experienced OP is in the world

Fighting a different fight here. The comment was described as a joke but in reality it has nothing to do with humor or timing or topic. It was a baseless assumption that is insulting to his gf

>Is it really that bad when the victim isn't the butt of the joke?
I just don't think it's a subject that should be joked about, especially in the context of talking shit about some chick who, for all you know, has actually been sexually assaulted. It's poor taste and marks the person with a blinking red sign that says to me "insensitive asshole you cannot trust, do not get too close."

>What if a rape survivor tells it?
Entirely dependent on situation and tone, and your definition on a joke. I've had some very dark exchanges about rape with another survivor where we'd discuss it with a detached sense of humor, for example, "please, use my body, that's fine I guess." If you count those exchanges as "jokes," then, sure, that's a context that it might work. Most of the "jokes" about rape from survivors I've heard are not about rape, but about securing retribution and mocking rapists and rapist-apologists.

But a classic joke or judgment about rape like OP did? Not a chance.

Considering some fucker mentioning rape can throw me out of my head straight into a dissociative episode, and that I do not openly disclose I am a survivor to people, I have no desire to forgive men or women who poke fun at the subject. You can disagree, but I cannot associate with someone like you for my own mental well-being.

This is completely a different topic, as delineates.

>The point of contention is that he didn't explain why he doesn't like her friend, but rather made a nonsensical joke that could only be explained with the mindset "false accusers are sensitive sallies therefore she is the type to falsely accuse," which hopefully tells you how experienced OP is in the world

He did explain why. He said that he felt that she is the kind of person to say they were unjustifiably raped due to how she reacts to people because she is sensitive.

Is he justified to hold that opinion? I don't know, I never met the girl. I would say you don't know ether. More to the point, that wasn't what he wanted to know.

He is asking if he is justified to not hang out with the girl. The simple answer is yes. If you don't like a person (regardless of how stupid the reason) then you are justified for not hanging out with them as it is a "free" country.

He doesn't need a justification to not hang out with someone, it's kind of a silly question really. He obviously feels bad for making his girlfriend feel uncomfortable which I think is why he thinks he needs justification.

He doesn't, pure and simple. I do think he should apologize for TMI regarding why he doesn't like her. It sounds like his girlfriend might not have asked why, at that point he overshared.

>Most of the "jokes" about rape from survivors I've heard are not about rape, but about securing retribution and mocking rapists and rapist-apologists.
Well, I'd include them under the umbrella of "rape jokes" too, since the act itself doesn't leave too much room for humour to put it mildly. And yeah, obviously the shit OP pulled in unsalvageable, even with a better context; the most kind interpretation would be him being a clueless idiot.

I suppose my answer is that how you joke about it, when you joke about it, and who you joke about it with matters. As a general rule, I cannot jive with those jokes, especially from a man who doesn't have the slightest clue of what is and isn't acceptable behavior and no concept of framing it to not be offensive or rude.

>Considering some fucker mentioning rape can throw me out of my head straight into a dissociative episode, and that I do not openly disclose I am a survivor to people, I have no desire to forgive men or women who poke fun at the subject. You can disagree, but I cannot associate with someone like you for my own mental well-being.

Unfortunately that is the risk you take when you are socializing with people. Comedy is so subjective that it is absolutely unreasonable to think certain subjects should be off the table.

It is your problem, not the person who is making the joke. I'm confidant that most well-adjusted people would feel awful for having made the joke knowing you feel so strongly, but again, that isn't their fault for not knowing.

It's a no-fault situation as far as I'm concerned. You aren't at fault because you don't have to disclose that you were raped. They aren't at fault for making a joke with the purpose of making you laugh.

I'm very sorry to hear that you were a victim to something so horrible. I hope that you are able to continue healing. Best of luck to you.

You are 100% responsible for the words you say and how they affect others. That is a core tenet of accountability for your actions. OP fucked up. He needs to accept accountability for that fuck-up.

>I said sorry.

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>Comedy is so subjective that it is absolutely unreasonable to think certain subjects should be off the table.
Not really. If you aren't a complete sperg, you know that certain subjects are very, very likely to lead to a negative reaction, and hence should at least think twice before joking about them if you care about social ostracisation. There is a reason some topics are considered edgy or even taboo. If you're willing to take the risk to step over it, you should also be willing to accept the negative consequences. Blaming someone getting offended by something considered universally offensive is insane.

>You are 100% responsible for the words you say
Sure.
>and how they affect others
Sometimes it's beyond reasonable assumption. If you tell a off beat story about a sunny day and your cat and someone has an episode because their family and their cat died on a sunny day, is it really your fault for them reacting so strongly if you had zero reasons to presume their would?

>You are 100% responsible for the words you say

Correct. I have absolute say over what I say.

>and how they affect others.

Incorrect. I am fully responsible for what I say and the intentions behind each word. My audience is 100% responsible for how those words make them feel.

>That is a core tenet of accountability for your actions.

Words and actions are two distinctly different things. This is objective.

>OP fucked up. He needs to accept accountability for that fuck-up.

I agree that he overshared if his girlfriend didn't ask why he didn't like her friend. That was his misstep and he should apologize.

>Not really. If you aren't a complete sperg, you know that certain subjects are very, very likely to lead to a negative reaction, and hence should at least think twice before joking about them if you care about social ostracisation. There is a reason some topics are considered edgy or even taboo. If you're willing to take the risk to step over it, you should also be willing to accept the negative consequences. Blaming someone getting offended by something considered universally offensive is insane.

Depends on the circumstance. At a workplace I'd agree with you 100%. You are there to work, you aren't their to socialize and so you shouldn't be taking a risk while socializing unless your job entails it.

While out in the free world? No. Hard no.

At work, you're usually just a few steps closer to the line. "The free world" has pretty strict social rules actually, and while you're absolutely free to break pretty much all of them; you won't be free of the consequences for doing so. "It's just a joke" excuse won't fly.

>"The free world" has pretty strict social rules actually,

All free citizens are imbued with free speech. If I intend to say something to incite negative emotions in someone then I fully accept the consequence of offending them.

If I intend to say something to make them laugh/connect to them and they are offended then I'll apologize for connecting in a bad way and move on. There are no consequences aside from that. I'm certainly not going to feel bad that someone holds a grudge against me for saying it. Their problem. I made an effort and it failed, oh well.

>"It's just a joke" excuse won't fly.

That is a petty and bitter way to look at a social misstep. You can feel that way, but that doesn't make it right.

>There are no consequences aside from that.
Depending on how far you went, it's likely that the person/group will now avoid you. And depending on how many people know about it, there are further consequences; take the James Gunn tweets. AND of course there the the "right space" aspect. Yelling "I HAVE A BOMB" in a crowded place, is likely to have even more severe consequences, no matter how funny and light-hearted it seemed or how you absolutely had no ill intent.

Now how you respond to negative reactions is all back to freedom and if you choose not to feel bad about missteps anyway, all the power to you.

>That is a petty and bitter way to look at a social misstep. You can feel that way, but that doesn't make it right.
Well, depends on the level of the misstep. Holding OP is complete disdain after THAT kind of stuff he said seems pretty appropriate.

>Depending on how far you went, it's likely that the person/group will now avoid you. And depending on how many people know about it, there are further consequences; take the James Gunn tweets. AND of course there the the "right space" aspect.

I think what happened with James Gunn is twisted and wrong. I don't like how society has gone full on US vs. THEM mentality. He made a couple jokes and they are crucifying him years later? They were clearly intended to make people laugh. Getting fired over something like that is deplorable.

I don't want to live in a society like that and I sincerely think it needs to change.

Social media has just become echo chambers of vitriol and anger over the slightest misstep against whatever agenda. Being safe behind a screen grants the ability to be anti-social and has a deleterious affect on humanity due to that.

No one can say anything anymore without possibly losing their livelihood? Madness.

>Yelling "I HAVE A BOMB" in a crowded place, is likely to have even more severe consequences, no matter how funny and light-hearted it seemed or how you absolutely had no ill intent.

This hypothetical is so unlikely that it bears no resemblance to an arrangement. No able minded person would scream that with pure intentions.

>Well, depends on the level of the misstep. Holding OP is complete disdain after THAT kind of stuff he said seems pretty appropriate.

I agree that he needs to apologize as I've said from my very first post to him. If he apologizes then it is on his girlfriend, not him. I would also say that if she asked him why then he was completely justified in telling her why and deserves no apology.

This hypothetical is so unlikely that it bears no resemblance to an argument.*

Also bare, I suck at spelling.

>James Gunn
Well, the discussion was never about that; just that there might be consequences for shit we say.

>they are crucifying him years later
No one is really doing that. His contract got cancelled because Disney wanted to avoid negative PR due association with the shit. (And yeah, they acted like total cunts since they knew about the stuff and only choose to act after media attention but it's a business after all and these are usually dirty)

>clearly intended to make people laugh.
That's why he doesn't have the FBI on his ass. Just as he was free to make dumb jokes, people were free to not like them and voice that. If your job depends on people liking you ... it's a bad move to make jokes that are likely to piss off many people; and he acknowledged himself that he was an edgy cunt for the sake of it.

>No one can say anything anymore without possibly losing their livelihood
Pedo jokes would have even worse consequences at any other time. All social media did was increasing the reach and democratising the process. Otherwise it'd be down to some "moral authority"; now we as a society can decide. Of course it's still very much work in progress due the whole echo chamber nature, but it's better than the shit before, which was even more authoritarian without concern for the general public.

>No able minded person would scream that with pure intentions.
Not everyone grew up in a culture and country where it's a realistic scenario. Besides, it's probably still more sensible than the shit OP said if the "bomb threat" ends with something like "muh dick". The only saving grace for OP in comparison is that he didn't say it to the chick directly.

>If he apologizes then it is on his girlfriend, not him.
Well, to a point sure but "lol, I am sorry" for a comment like that doesn't seem too sufficient either, and given that he doesn't even realise what the fuck was wrong with making it, nor actually feels sorry, it's all moot either way.

This, OP is a faggot

>Well, the discussion was never about that; just that there might be consequences for shit we say.

You used him as an example so I was responding to that example. I think I summed up my opinion on having opinions and humor in society pretty well which pertains to the original conversation.

>it's a bad move to make jokes that are likely to piss off many people; and he acknowledged himself that he was an edgy cunt for the sake of it.

Depends on the person and their line of work. I'd say the whole thing was overblown and I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was looking for a reason to fire him. Not wanting the PR for something that clearly no one cared about doesn't make much sense.

>Otherwise it'd be down to some "moral authority";

I don't understand what you mean by this. If it weren't for social media it would be down to whoever is in your closest vicinity that you are trying to connect with which is how it should be. If anything social media has become the moral authority because figureheads who push an agenda are able to voice their outrage over something that had absolutely no intention to reach them and furthermore had no business responding to.

Akin to overhearing a conversation that wasn't intended for you. That used to be called eavesdropping and it used to be considered incredibly rude.

>Not everyone grew up in a culture and country where it's a realistic scenario.

How far removed are we going to make ourselves from the conversation?

>Well, to a point sure but "lol, I am sorry" for a comment like that doesn't seem too sufficient either,

Don't recall saying that is the kind of apology he should give. An apology is an apology. Saying an apology and apologizing are two different things (although they shouldn't be.) I said he should apologize.

>and given that he doesn't even realise what the fuck was wrong with making it, nor actually feels sorry, it's all moot either way.

He does feel bad.

>An apology is an apology. Saying an apology and apologizing are two different things (although they shouldn't be.) I said he should apologize.

Bad wording, I'm kind of in a hurry. But what I mean to say is if I say someone needs to apologize, then I obviously mean a real apology. Saying lol sorry is not an actual apology. It's saying the words usually associated with apologizing.

Well she seems overly sensitive yeah. But yah stay away from rape jokes.

>You used him as an example so I was responding to that example.
The point of the example was countering your "If I intend to say something to make them laugh/connect to them and they are offended then I'll apologize for connecting in a bad way and move on. There are no consequences aside from that." which isn't a viable attitude in the real world, if the stuff wasn't under four eyes, since shit can bite us in the ass. Whether either of us agrees or likes it doesn't matter too much for the sake of the conversation.

>If it weren't for social media it would be down to whoever is in your closest vicinity that you are trying to connect with which is how it should be.
If you are a nobody, and then the situation is pretty much the same now. If you were the in public eye, the public didn't actually decide thought, since they had minimal say but muh moral guardians and authorities did.

>Akin to overhearing a conversation that wasn't intended for you.
Would only apply to private stuff. A majority of social media is yelling stuff to the whole world. Seems only natural for the world to respond to some of it.

>He does feel bad.
About his gf not liking it.
>But in honesty I wasn’t kidding around
Doesn't sound like someone who feels bad about the comment. Or even understood why others would have issues with it.

As for the rest of your post, yeah, sure and agree.