I am a student of western philosophy, history, and psychology so the viewpoints espoused by stupid christian rednecks and skinhead thugs don't seem very convincing to me. However I am regularly surprised by the amount of ideals I seem to share in common with the self-described National Socialists and Fascists on this board.
The only information I can find on online libraries like Wikipedia likewise seem to be inherently negative and only describe NS as being entirely organized around producing a wartime economy like that seen in Nazi Germany. For an individual like myself who is not interested in the endless war of Oceania like that described in 1984 I assume there must be some kind of comprehensive ideas of what the economic and political structure of NS would look like in peacetime, right?
I am especially interested in what social mobility would look like in such a country. If NS is about handing over monopolies to specific corporations in return for there obedience to the state, then how does the normal man get rich, or begin a business of his own? Does NS/Fascism create a permanent class of oligarchs and peasants with nothing in between?
National Socialism is interested not so much in money but in the creation of community and a strong nation stemming from strong families. It views economic prosperity as the guaranteed by-product of ensuring the well-being of its citizens, not as the end goal. It does this through offering financial incentives for having children (straight up loans to be forgiven after X number of kids, subsidized home loans, etc.) and worker's rights. The latter is achieved by, as you said, the control of corporations and businesses for the national community. You are allowed to run your corporation so long as you abide by the oversight of the state and its policies, but should you try to oppose this or abuse the workers then you will be replaced with someone chosen by the state.
Many libertarians would worry about this being abused, but NatSoc recognizes hierarchy and that everyone must serve a purpose, they do not wish to dismantle ownership as communists do. Basically, the state ensures the CEOs serve the interests of their workers as they would serve their own interests, because they provide the livelihood for so many.
Justin Myers
He means bump while he gets his NEETsoc copypasta propaganda
This kind of reminds me of the current relationship that Russia has with it's oligarchs and citizens, to a degree. The oligarchs agree to keep prices at an affordable level and all that. As a Libertarian my worry is less about whether the corporations and government will continue to abide by the philosophical tenets of NS than if the corporations will control monopolies. If a business startup has no ability to compete, ever, with the big corps, then what does the middle class really get out of the bargain. Just living in a civil society is not enough, I want the ability to achieve what the owners of large corporations have.
Evan Reyes
Nazi Germany relied on conquest for economic growth. When they couldn’t take over more vassal states, their economy collapsed.
Mason Reyes
False.
Jaxon Ramirez
Thanks, I'll check them out.
Logan Bennett
You really convinced me.
Joshua Reed
National Socialists also seek to bridge class divides through the building of a strong national consciousness capable of transcending wealth differences. This is made easier to do by direct state oversight of corporations as it ensures that individual workers can trust that their interests are being looked after and not being discarded for the sake of personal profit. The worker, because he is being well-paid and feels that he can trust his company due to his country, will not feel that dedicating himself to working harder will be a waste; in fact, working harder is a way of showing gratitude to his country and serving it as well.
I will add a caveat to everything above, this applies to Whites living in an all-White country. Not only because of our work ethic and selflessness, but because ethnic minorities contribute to alienation and not to building a strong national community
Fucking ancaps
Angel Walker
I get the feeling that you're stuck on competition. National Socialism is not about competing with fellow countrymen, it is about everyone within the country working for the benefit of themselves through the well-being of the whole. Being racially homogeneous and with a common history means you are one people, and as one people you all share blood ties to one another, like a family. The competition comes from other countries and other peoples, from without and not from within.
Jacob Price
Ancaps are the main reason why I question Libertarianism, it seems to be moving more and more into the ideological quagmire of Anarcho-capitalism. I can't figure out if anarcho-communism or anarcho-capitalism is the more absure oxymoron.
Luis Morales
I second this. Cultured-Thug has some great videos
Read the entire NSDAP canon and see if you agree with it. You can probably find book threads containing them on best chan. I mean jeez user, what were you expecting?
Aaron Reyes
I'm stuck on competition to the degree that it has thus-far been the only method I have seen to bringing about technological and material advances in society. This is because in basic free-market capitalism the system seems to be corrupted over time, the corporations soak up more and more for themselves becoming monopolies, and then the overall material well-being of the common man seems to degrade.
I do agree though that is is in large part because I do not believe my labor will be appreciated or used to a positive end in today's society. It seems only to strengthen the elite, and this is also due to alienation.
Charles Edwards
Read “Hitler’s Revolution”
Caleb Martinez
Watch some vids on Vertigopolitix's channel. My path from Libertarian to fascist went something like this; >State uses violence and its bad To >Everyone who has the capacity for violence uses it. Violence isnt inherently evil or bad, merely a tool required in life. Will to power. Next >Humans are unequal in the realm of economic ability and opportunity, free market/private property are equal though To >Humans are unequal in every facet of their being, some people do not deserve political opportunity or ability to own property/participate in the market. Additionally >Man is an economic unit To >Man is zoon politicon. His sense of self is created by the group, and his interactions with the broader societal structures around him, whether this is in lone or opposed to the group identity means little. The man who exists outside the polity is simply a beast. And one thing I thought was funny >Socialists/Communists claim it wasnt real Socialism/Communism >Capitalists claim its not real capitalism >Fascists say youre damn right it was fascism, and we got beat by the whole rest of the world who themselves had plenty of fascistic policies and structures already in place, or quickly enacted them.
Ryder Butler
Let me ask this question: do you believe this technological innovation would not have occurred if we were not operating under capitalism? Because a lot of the space travel advances and such occurred because of German scientists captured at the end of WWII. Not to mention that National Socialist Germany had the most technological innovations during the war of any one nation. Europeans are unique among other races in our ability to always innovate and push the boundaries because of the challenge it presents, and other times Europeans are chasing glory and want to etch their names into the history books. The free market doesn't produce advancements, the people do.
David Morgan
Sounds like Plato's republic minus the bullshit and with guns added to the scenario. I'm thinking..
Jace Flores
>Fascists say you're damn right it was fascism That's a great line user
William Scott
I'm not sure, I honestly don't know enough about the economic rise of Germany during the interwar periods. Like I said, all of the information I seem to get my hands on only says they acquired the wealth to do these things by confiscating them from others, such as Jews.
I have also been reading a lot about the rise of Venice as an economic power in the 11th to 14th centuries. They seem to operate as a commune for the collective good but this also appears to be because they were competing against other nations and peoples. Sort of a capitalism engaged in by the collective? Are their similarities between this model and Germany in the early 20th century, in your opinion?
Joshua Ross
Your fascistic tendencies will emerge when opposing socialists/Communists. You'll get there eventually.
I'm not read up on the economic policies of states from that long ago, I have always studied the relations between political entities and the evolution of the state arising from the Thirty Years' War. But what you describe sounds similar, as Fascism in general believes that competition occurs not at the individual level or the corporate level, but between different peoples organized into their own centralized states.
I'm sure the seizure of wealth helped some, but the biggest problem in Weimar Germany was hyperinflation caused by the vicious borrowing cycle to pay off the Versailles Treaty reparations. The US essentially lent money to Germany, who then used the loan money to pay reparations to Britain and France, who then used that money to begin paying back the United States who had lent money and material to them during WWI.
Leo Nguyen
Communism, Fascism, and National Socialism are all from the same roots, that are the Marxian theories.
They all have the same end goal, with similar promises of a perfect society, but they divert on how to attain it.
That's all you need to know.
Jace Robinson
Pretty much, though the take all the kids away and raise them as one is one thing I say is a little to silly.
I'm not a natsoc, so can't help you there. I would like to talk philosophy with you though. Also, I'm gonna assume you're new and tell you that posting with a meme flag and a name is very poor form. If you plan to remove your name after this thread that's fine, but if you don't point that out right away anons are going to be hostile to you. Are you a stoic master race?
John Brooks
ah fuck there goes my social life
Michael Morgan
Are teams stronger than individuals? If yes: is this idea central to your politics? If yes: you're a fascist. Other than that you're just going to get autistic purity spiralling about who was first and whether NatSoc is even fascist. It's really fucking boring and retarded.
Jaxson Allen
It is ancaps are retarded niggers but it's ok because they never achieve anything and are all underage
This isn't really central but it isn't false either
>This kind of reminds me of the current relationship that Russia has with it's oligarchs and citizens, Well you're retarded then, all Russian oligarchs are jews that was the entire point of the Soviet Union to rob an entire nation at gunpoint
>as a libertarian Yep retarded classic mutt Textbook average American dumbfuck, your government is proud of your adherence to the default opinion citizen!
Oh yeah that makes sense, bankrupt? Perfect time to start a war tha costs money, and if we win we ll inherit the rubles, a few million mouths to feed and the depts f the guy we conquered If you're ever bankrupt just go wage an expensive war that's how you do it
Again this isn't really central this is more of a talking point to convince retarded socialists Also both the theory and the implementation were a lot more complex
Yeah do that at least that's a starting point lmao >HAIII GUISE I WANNA LERN ABOUT THAT STUFF BUT I DONT WANNA READ THE BASE LITERATURE OF IT
Again what that guy with the yellow id doesn't mention is the ideological foundations of natsoc, and THAT is central
Dude germany was the most advanced country in the world in terms of innovation, the most active in terms of economy and discovery, and had the highest per capita discoveries just look at the results
>>Man is an economic unit Based libertarians Fuck having a society and shit just be greedy and do what you want
I mean there are only 3 groups on earth that use the "it wasn't real X" argument >ancaps >Marxists(commies socialists progressivists) >christians
Communism was tried dozens of time with the same result every time, natsoc was tried once and worked perfectly, and as intended
Ok I ll give you a basic introduction to how states function >states are organizations >they have a private treasury >they're pretty much just a private actor in a larger economy, difference being that they can raise taxes and pay for non profit stuff >because we don't live in a sane system states don't have access to whatever resources they need, so they can actually run out of cash and then they can't buy stuff from private actors anymore >mr rothrossshekelberg comes along with his bank and goes a loan to the state (yes) >that loan has interests on it, and instead of getting their cash from people banks get their cash from the gov they re lending the fucking money to (yes) >to pay of the banks the gov prints money >when you print money you steal value from all the people who have that money at once >so the banks steal a large chunk of the gdp of your entire fucking country while producing NOTHING, and people don't even realize it because they don't have to pay higher taxes, but literally all of the money they have is being siphoned away of its value >you may amass a fortune, but if you have it in a currency 50 years later it will be worth nothing, because if inflation, where s that money gone? To the banks >that's why banks try to make states spend more, they love welfare states and niggers, because the more useless things the gig has to spend money on the more the gig will give them money >also the economy can never stop growing or the Tate won't be able to pay back the interest in his loan and will go bankrupt
No he s from brazil Technically musso was an ex commie but he wasn't exactly the shining star of the fash regimes
Generally quality books are banned, the germans banned around 4000 books, mainly pornography, and the odd marxist jewish book The allies banned 34000 books when they invaded
I assume that you re proud freedom loving American who supports trump and free market
They're not all good
Yeah this text is pretty accurate but just watch any video from that time, everyone was happy, don't forget adolf won THREE elections in a row, first to make him chancellor, then he won AGAIN to make him a dictator with even better results, then he won A THIRD TIME in austria for annexation into his regime with like 90%+ votes
Moderate Muslim don't exists or they re heretics, not a Muslim, but doesn't mean that I ll let blasphemers get away
I m reminded of vid that really pissed me off, where a jewess who makes a show about transexuals for toddlers invited a quadroon New York jewess who pretends o be Muslim to not only pervert the minds of toddlers and endocrinate them into that who gender part of modern marxism, but at the SAME TIME try to subvert islam
Willing to jump on anything at this point that’ll save our people. As far as the individual can we keep our guns? Also, private property. What’s the role of the farmer? That’s the only thing keeping me from National Socialism
Checked and gay Try taking off the meme flag homo and people might take you seriously.
Henry Adams
>Moderate Muslim don't exists That's almost literally the flip side of what moderate muslims say >terrorists aren't real muslims Anyway I'm inclined to agree that moderate muslims are just less devout, but you could say that about most christians or jews too
Ryan Smith
Why are all burgers always so systematically ignorant and misinformed about everything
Are you a Libertarian? Just making an assumption based on your pic, if that's what got you thinking.
Fascism is a reaction, it is the immune response of being faced with commie bullshit. Many libertarians end up contemplating fascist ideals (and some even embracing them) as a direct response to protect and preserve the people and culture that enables libertarian society. While inherently they seem opposed, the core goal of Fascism is to hold on high the culture and tradition of a people, and if that is a free culture and tradition like what we had in America, then the Fascist of America would have to put such ideals on a pedestal and always strive for it, although it may be contradictory, it invokes the ideas of "Mandatory freedom", the "Non-negotiable democracy".
Though as you mentioned, many people that produly tout the title of "Nazi" or "Fascist" are often just thugs looking fora fight and have no care for the tenets or ideals of the ideology, they just know it attracts heat and they like punching. Those kinds of people are not the ones that will do anything good for you, if you gain power, they'll flip sides just to get in more fights.
Singapore is a good example of a Fascist uprising that resulted in a non Fascist society, successfully transitioning into a stable state.
Lincoln Parker
No that's the opposite of what I said terrorists are real Muslims and those who say that they aren't are heretics
Jihadis are the real Muslims, all other denominations are technically heretical
Luke Diaz
George Lincoln Rockwell put it that way. I think it's just what happens when you end up with nothing to your right but the wall.
Adrian Torres
Their entire knowledge can be summarized in a wikipedia article. Those worthless subhumans (most of them, at least), will educate you on YOUR country and it's history and culture. An American is no more than an entitled little roach, full of pride for something he hasn't accomplished. Either that, or fast food, that is.
these are the guys that make slide threads, don't sweat it, they just jumped the gun
honestly the nitty gritty of it is just basic governance and economics it's the social nuance of keeping the lower primates out thats got everyone stumped
Brandon Lopez
Whether your intent was to slide or not, the thread at least has content and real, genuine discussion, and belongs here. Don't worry about people calling you anything.
Hunter Morales
Lol no senpai, if someone claims they are going to save the white race but takes away your guns you shoot those kikes.
Bentley Stewart
Sigh come on man, I have a board test in 2 weeks =/
Christian Howard
Because, like the rest of the anglosphere live under representative democracies that incentivise politicians, bureaucrats and oligarchs to destroy their countries and nations for profit.
Fascism is a reaction to modern systems of government and social problems. Libertarian society is an ideal, and once the future is secured, government intervention and policy would be reduced to avoid infringing on liberty, while also ensuring the continuation and prosperity of society. At this point, federal attention would mostly exist only as a projection of policy outwards instead of domestically.
They're compatible in the sense that force is required to create and sustain a libertarian society. Fascism is a means to an end, a free and prosperous white society being that end.
The second greentext was intended to be quoting moderate muslims, not you
Brody Sanchez
Only stupid if not asking questions in a conscious attempt to grow. I am admittedly ignorant on the subject of NS. Other than that my worldview is based on the Hegelian Dialectic and at 6'3" 240 I bet I could kick your ass afk.
Xavier Hall
Of course, that’s not what I was saying. I didn’t know if that was the goal of this neo-wave of national socialists that are gaining momentum within the cause today. Since it’s happened with socialism in the past.
Ian White
>Fascism is a reaction, it is the immune response of being faced with commie bullshit. There's a lot more to react to than just "commie bullshit" >Many libertarians end up contemplating fascist ideals (and some even embracing them) as a direct response to protect and preserve the people and culture that enables libertarian society. Libertarians are a discontinued psyop from the U.S. Government and 3 Peter agencies, they aren't natsoc to begin with simply because they have no idea what natsoc is, as everything related to it is mercilessly censored and all of the propaganda >While inherently they seem opposed, the core goal of Fascism is to hold on high the culture and tradition of a people, Nah not really it has more important are more basic central principles but I guess that they still do that >and if that is a free culture and tradition like what we had in America, Absolute freedom is not an objective good and natsoc utterly rejects even the idea of complete freedom, that's not a debate, wtf does free culture even mean
>then the Fascist of America would have to put such ideals on a pedestal and always strive for it, although it may be contradictory, it invokes the ideas of "Mandatory freedom", the "Non-negotiable democracy". I think you just went full retard What you seem to be saying is that freedom is a part of burger culture and so if there was a fa movement there they would respect that Well yeah pretty much correct, but one of the MAIN TENANTS of natsoc is that all things government related are means and not ends You adapt your state to whatever you need to do what you want to do and if something doesn't work then you don't do it But for what you said in regards to freedums, sure a burger movement would put a higher emphasis on individual liberties, but doing things that hurt more people than they beneficiate, and things that have a net negative effect on the whole will NEVER be allowed Again you need to view it from the right perspective, in natsoc the only reason you have corporation is because they are a positive for both the people and the nation, but the state ALWAYS has power OVER the private sector, and can dismantle or create any industry it wants, at any time, only then do free enterprise, the free market and competition start coming in
Atta boy Too many doomers and nihilists want to feel superior in a dark room with only a keyboard to do the talking for them. They’re losers.(pic related) They should take the white pill and help their cause.
The masses are too retarded to do anything right, that applies to religion as well, but usually you don't take them into account when you compare them
Yeah, America is a really weird country It steered when the unwashed masses of Europe who couldn't compete fled to the new continent, the "land of opportunity", so already the genetic stock is a bit fucked, we don't have rural retards and rednecks in Europe btw my fellow mutts, and the. A part of the very competent who also went to America Then you get the massonic coup, so the country is already fucked as it started Then it kept getting even worse, the fking fed act, fiat, have a commie sympathizer zio president orchestrate ww2, the 1965 act etc etc Americans today are some of the most brainwashed people on earth, it's probably in the same level as North Korea, and in top of that they re kept docile and ignorant by Truro psyops from their fovernemtn it's pretty fucked up Literally everything an American believes it every reaction he will have, everything he will say was preprogrammed in some way
I'm what they would have called in the old days of radio, "long times listener, first time caller". I used the dumb pirate flag because I am yet to be loyal to any specific cause or nation until I have clearly defined what I am pledging allegiance to. I'm from the US but what this country has become is very far from something I could ever hope to fight for. This is perhaps why I am here.
As a youth I was an ideological leftist, sometimes anarchist. Over the years I have read much history and became engrossed by philosophical Idealism, particularly the work of Hegel.
Next time I will follow you advice but I hardly see how "some drunk guy" is disclosing much about my personal life. Lastly, I have recently been listening to Marcus Aurelius with great enthusiasm. So stoic, yes, but master race? I'm a mixture of Greek, Scottish, and English. So by default I'm a mutt, which is a large reason why I've been turned off by the eugenics talk in the first place.
I believe foremost in the superiority of European culture, but when we begin dicing up the white race into all these competing factions then what place is their for me?
Adrian Jackson
>Fascism is a reaction to modern systems of government and social problems. See there you go, it's not hurt a reaction to "commie bullshit" like the other mutt said, it attempts to fix all issues of society, social economic and governmental, and it adapts depending on what problems of needs to fix >Libertarian society is an ideal, Literally why what does it offer that's so much better than the alternative? You have the option to be left alone? Not really, if you want to do that you need someone to protect you, and just ignoring politics is never an option, so if that's the main appeal its doomed to fail >and once the future is secured, It's never secured >government intervention and policy would be reduced to avoid infringing on liberty, Muh liberty is generally an argument powerful (people))) use to protect themselves and do evil shit You can allow people to be retarded in their homes WHILE keeping an eye on corporations >while also ensuring the continuation and prosperity of society. No you can't, you always need to keep private actors in check because their interests is always self serving and always opposes the greater good of the society >At this point, federal attention would mostly exist only as a projection of policy outwards instead of domestically. Idk wtf that is but that aint natsoc >They're compatible in the sense that force is required to create and sustain a libertarian society. What even >Fascism is a means to an end, a free and prosperous white society being that end. True dat
But for all libertarians it still includes the fact that NO ONE PERSON OR CORPORATION CAN BE RICHER OR STRONGER THAN THE GOVERNMENT WITHIN THAT VERY NATION
Did you not read all of my post? Or was that simply a funny statement looking back at it?
Jose Hall
That sounds similar to the whole "socialism is just the response to capitalism, communism is the end stage" Marxist nonsense, but I do agree that fascist responses are like a society's immune system.
I'm uncertain what the ideal political system for a society is, but I'm sure it coincides with ethnic homogeneity.
Grayson Torres
> I used the dumb pirate flag because I am yet to be loyal to any specific cause or nation until I have clearly defined what I am pledging allegiance to. I'm from the US but what this country has become is very far from something I could ever hope to fight for. This is perhaps why I am here.
Don't worry everyone could tell you were an burger even with the meme flag, your posts has this sense of naive arrogant ignorance and stupidly only mutts can achieve >As a youth I was an ideological leftist, sometimes anarchist. Over the years I have read much history and became engrossed by philosophical Idealism, particularly the work of Hegel. Well that's pretty fa mate, idealism is the cornerstone of the ideology >Marcus Aurelius with great enthusiasm. So stoic, yes, That's good just don't let it turn you into a lil bitch cuck where you just let everyone fuck you over but master race? I'm a mixture of Greek, Scottish, and English. So by default I'm a mutt, which is a large reason why I've been turned off by the eugenics talk in the first place. Nigga what Scottish isn't a race See this is what I mean only Americans speak with this much confidence about things they have 0 understanding of
The masterace thing is allied propaganda, the aryan thing is more of civilizational and metaphorical thing, basically IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW (but who am I kidding you're an American you know nothing, not even the most basic facts) literally all white people on earth came from 1 people, before ww2 they were called the aryans, after ww2 they're now referred to as "the early indo Europeans", so do some research on that name Basically all cultures, languages and society of Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and India came from them, after the aryan invasions, a time in which our ancestors literally conquered half the globe the word aryan comes from the Sanskrit word for "noble" it's the way our ancestors chose to call their race, after they invaded india
Isaac Sanders
Yes, this is at least the most honest current description of my beliefs, my evolution has gone something like this:
1) Raised in a guilt-ridden psychotic christian hell of Pentecostals who view "intellectual" as a bad word, suffered from psychosis, and attacked everything they were too dumb to understand. At one time threatened by my parents to be put in a home for delinquent children if I read books they didn't agree with.
2) Rejected the entire world I new and left to live on my own as a teenager. Called myself an anarcho-socialist.
3) Descended into a world of drug use, realized that all the liberal people around me were retarded and had no understanding of history or philosophy. Turned to drugs out of depression, homeless drifter for a few years.
4) Got off drugs, built a career, got in shape, stopped making excuses for myself. Began to see the legitimacy of affinity for one's cultural group and nation. Called myself a Libertarian.
5) Spent the past year reading the German Idealists and realizing their opinions were the most logical I could find. Read Nietzsche. Saw Marxism and subsequent critiques of Absolute idealism as being based solely in Materialism and a lack of ideals or moral fiber.
6) Started reading posts on /Pol.
Oliver Reyes
Nigger
Cooper Flores
Libertarian + Facism = American
You’re welcome.
Isaac Thompson
>Fascism is a reaction to modern systems of government and social problems. No, it's a recognition that teams are stronger than individuals. A fascist will advocate for whichever policies he believes will make his team stronger. Fascists from different populations will have different doctrines, eg a Japanese fascist shouldn't be Christian because this religion is not part of Japanese heritage. A fascist is a pragmatist when it comes to bettering the strength of his team.
Did you just claim the fighters weren't needed? Hitler honoured his fighters, men who carried him in his rise. He moulded his "thugs" to be smart warriors. They did not start out as educated civilized fighters. Many were angry men with no hope. None of them flipped. They stayed loyal. That's the whole point of cultured thug too. Keep your strength, your anger but learn to contain it for only when necessary to use it, and in the meantime to study.
Anthony Cox
They didn't even reach a full war economy until way too late in the game.
Parker Cruz
They're completely incompatible.
Cameron Hernandez
Nah option b I only correct when people say wrong things in case you haven't noticed, nothing about your post was horrifically incorrect, so kudos I guess
So the use of aryan was more of a play on German romanticism and idealism, the thought that we (all Europeans) are the heir of this noble race that once conquered half the globe
Also look into haplogroups, the original whites/indo Europeans/yemnar were of haplogroup R, that split into haplogroup r1a(Slavic and aryan, the group that went east, conquered Russia, Eastern Europe (so I guess west technically), Iran (Iran means land of the aryans btw, India and Mesopotamia) and R1b(celtic, Mediterranean, Nordic, the group that went west)
All of those peoples decsend from the same original people
>I believe foremost in the superiority of European culture, Pure brainwashing, culture mainly comes from race, and on top of that there are HUGE racial differences just lurk more >but when we begin dicing up the white race into all these competing factions then what place is their for me? Nobody does that nationalism is pretty retarded, it made sense when we had our very closed cultures and common history, but now that those have been destroyed it makes very little sense, now only the race matters, the basic sense of no more brother wars The only difference in the white race people make today is between slaves and western euros
