How isn't abortion illegal yet?

Fuck off you faggot mutt.

Right, but WHY though? What's the ABC's of showing someone, secularly, that abortion is murder by all reasonable definition and argument?

As far as I can tell, one such argument might go like this

>the fetus is a unique organism, separate from both the mother and the father
>the fetus is not a part of the mother; in the most explicit, clinical sense, it may be thought as a parasite, not an outgrowth or tumor of the mother
>personhood, in the general sense, is defined as having conscious thought and/or the quality of sapience
>despite this, mentally retarded, sleeping, and comatose humans are all regarded as people.
>in the former case, this is because it is a fuzzy line to distinguish sapient from sub-sapient individuals, and is similarly why there are extended animal rights for more intelligent species
>in the latter, it is because the individual in question is only temporarily (potentially, in the case of comatose individuals) nonconcious, and this does not justify revocation of rights during this period
>the only cases where an individual may be euthanized without their express consent is when them continuing conscious thought at some point in the future is all but impossible
>going back to the fetus; we know that there is a transition from wholly unintelligent, non-conscious, non-sapient organism (fetus) to intelligent, conscious, sapient individual (child)
>this is a continuous progress
>it is immoral to kill a young child because, while they are not as intelligent, conscious, or sapient as an adult, they do have the beginnings of this
>it is immoral to kill a very young child or baby because, similarly, the faint beginnings of these qualities that would make them persons

It is

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The issue I'm running into is how to extend this to the fetus itself, because there's no genuine distinction from the newly born infant and the hours-before-birth fetus, and similarly, there's a continuous process (and no discrete distinction) between the almost born fetus and the newly fertilized zygote.

I suppose the more general question is: Do we have a moral obligation to moral agents that have yet to be, but will likely be? If we do, how fuzzy and to which extent does this apply?
Do we have a moral obligation to fetuses to protect them as if they were people?
Do we have a moral obligation to not cause potential harm to future generations, to the best of our ability?
If the following are true, then is allowing sperm or eggs to die without conceiving new life tantamount to murder, why or why not?

True, but then you run into the issue of not only "meat is murder", but also things like
Is harming a bug morally objectionable?
What about microscopic life?
Etc etc
It can't just be a "life in all forms at all stages" is sacred, because nature shows us it isn't.
It can't just be "human life in all forms at all stages" is sacred, because that dissalows for the rights of hypothetical non-human sapients.

As far as I can tell, the argument has to somehow make the link that even if a fetus isn't -technically- a person, the rights of a person do apply to it.
Or you have to somehow come up with a meaningful definition of person that includes objective fetuses, but not say hypothetical future generations or unfertilized gametes.

Not all children born from left wing parents become left wing, My mom's left wing and I'm more Centralisy

No real reason to get angry at me

I strongly agree with your statement

In my option Life starts at Conception, A human is only formed when the sperm fertilizes the Egg

Also in my option killing a animal for food is justified sinse humans are Omnivores and Meat is important in our diets

i don't give a shit. womans choice.

We need to act

>No real reason to get angry at me
Sorry user, I didn't mean to give that impression, I'm just actually looking for arguments, not just statements.

I've got the XYZ is true, I just need the ABC that proves it.

The child has no say in if it's murdered or not, Abortion is just as bad as killing a newborn child

Anyways everybody I'm going to bed, If this thread is still open I'll reply to any comments but if you want to continue talking to me specifically contact me on Steam

steamcommunity.com/id/

Because there are many niggers that still need to be aborted.

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Well, if we're being honest, I think that animal agriculture is utterly and completely morally reprehensible, and future generations are going to look back at how we treat livestock with disgust. That being said, I grew up enjoying the ease of acces and taste of those products and I dont have the time or energy to swim against that cultural current.

But I'm confused by your other statements--Im talking about human life. Insect life and microbial life has no moral value and mostly doesn't even feel much pain. Like I noted earlier, some higher life, like cattle and swine, can suffer and feel pain and how we treat them is gross. Human life needs more protection still, because it's the highest form of life.

I guess my definition of personhood is a natural one? A zygote gets to be a person because by it's nature it really only comes to exist in a sustainable way inside the conditions that will lead it to become a person. Normally that's inside a woman's body but I guess there are test-tube babies? Is that a thing?

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>A zygote gets to be a person because by it's nature it really only comes to exist in a sustainable way inside the conditions that will lead it to become a person.
Can you explain this a bit more, user? I think I get what you're saying, but it's not fully clicking.

>Well, if we're being honest, I think that animal agriculture is utterly and completely morally reprehensible, and future generations are going to look back at how we treat livestock with disgust.
I'd be tempted to agree with you if/when synthetically grown meat becomes available, but as it stands, there is very little non-human life that I think even counts for limited personhood.
In terms of pain and cruelty for livestock, I do agree though, but that can't really be helped unless you somehow get people to be fine with less meat (good luck lmao) or provide suitable supplements, like somehow making that 3rd world bug protein palatable, or perhaps increasing the efficiency of aquaculture to reduce the need for higher, terran meat.

I support farms that give animals a good life and I'm against factory farms.

Hopefully lab grown meat is a thing soon