Feminism

Because feminism is about giving each woman the liberty to choose by herself so when you say "I don't like feminism" you're kind of saying you're fine with things how they are now because you can easily have what you want - being a housewife - and you don't care about who doesn't want to be a housewife and want to be something else.
you can criticize feminism but rejecting it all does sound like you're telling others what to do.

You never want to talk politics with people unless you know what they believe. Unless you don't care if they hate you of course. Most people's politics are emotion based. That's why all they need to hear is one little statement to send them off into an intense rage. They don't care about your reasons or their reasons. I would say it is very risky to tell people that, especially other women. People tend to ignore the failings of things as well.

Take these two
They don't understand why you wouldn't like feminism because they focus only on the good aspects of it. There are plenty of reasons why feminism has been damaging to not only men but women as well. I am not against feminism personally but I don't like when people say 'It just means equal rights for women! How could you not love it!?'. Feminism is a lot deeper then that and you can't judge it based solely on the ideal image you have of it in your head.

No, it's actually because of technology. Thank washing machines, microwaves, that have efectivelly replaced them. Also, if the goal of "feminism" was already met years ago then what are they pushing for now? It'll never stop. It only helps to strengthen the rift between men and woman even further, the exact opposite of what feminism wants.

saying that women have the right to choose by themselves is like saying black people are equal to white people. Saying the opposite doesn't make you a free thinker, makes you a criminal. Just like saying it's okay to fuck babies would make you a pedophile.

I... Thanks. I do have a boyfriend. He was very surprised by our similar views.

It's not just that. It also is ruining lives for women. Feminists demand we throw away everything feminine and just become a bootleg copy of men. It also, ironically enough, tells us to be whores and men's sex toys. The fact that women don't see how ironic this is is sad. Being a whore isn't empowering, you're just letting men use you.

So when my literal opinion is asked, I should just lie and pretend I agree to something I dislike? Seems like women don't have freedom anymore thanks to feminism.

I see, thank you user for the advice. I normally don't have this with male friends, but I didn't know what to expect from female friends. Awkward.

>They don't understand why you wouldn't like feminism because they focus only on the good aspects of it.
I don't get into a fit of rage if someone has a different opinion than me, I would just tell them why my views are different. If they don't agree still, I'm like "that's OK". I don't get sperging and insulting a female for not having the same generic opinions.

Feminism is pushing for sexism against women by this point. "Be a whore, obey man who use you for sex, ooga booga". As soon as that happened, I immediantly lost all hope for the movement and knew it turned into a joke.

I'd say the 'choice' isn't really much of a choice. Doubling the workforce means halving the wages. This means most women will have to get educated and have a career because most men will not be able to support his family on a single income. Equal rights is great, but feminism has gone too far and now women that would be happy being homemakers are being pushed to the limit trying to juggle a career and a family. There are plenty of reasons why some women would dislike feminism.

>They don't understand why you wouldn't like feminism because they focus only on the good aspects of it. There are plenty of reasons why feminism has been damaging to not only men but women as well. I am not against feminism personally but I don't like when people say 'It just means equal rights for women! How could you not love it!?'. Feminism is a lot deeper then that and you can't judge it based solely on the ideal image you have of it in your head.

feminism has been a movement with many ups and downs and it's totally legit to have criticism about it. Feminists can disagree with each other too. But the basic principal is about equality and freedom of choice so you can't simply say "I don't like it!". In order to make criticisms you have to know it, too.

>So when my literal opinion is asked, I should just lie and pretend I agree to something I dislike? Seems like women don't have freedom anymore thanks to feminism.

You should simply know what you're talking about, that's it. If then you decide you don't like feminism and that all women should be in the house taking care of a large family, well then don't be surprise if women who don't want that will be mad at you.

>I'd say the 'choice' isn't really much of a choice. Doubling the workforce means halving the wages. This means most women will have to get educated and have a career because most men will not be able to support his family on a single income. Equal rights is great, but feminism has gone too far and now women that would be happy being homemakers are being pushed to the limit trying to juggle a career and a family. There are plenty of reasons why some women would dislike feminism.

Is that really feminism's fault? That's more how capitalism works

I agree. You shouldn't blindly dismiss or support anything. Too many people will unashamedly take a side without knowing enough to make a real decision.

That's how every economy works. You get thing in return for your labor. When there is more people providing labor, then labor isn't worth as much. You think under communism they just give you free money?

So you're saying mass censorship is good and freedom of choice is bad. OK, Mr. nazi. Your view is extremely communistic too.

Feminism is all about giving women absolutely everything they want no matter how irrational or emotional they are about it. It means believing women even when they blatantly lie, cheat and steal with the best of them and then kindly listening to women bitch about being oppressed when you tell them you caught them lying and cheating on camera. Nothing good has ever been done, thought of, planned, executed, driven to or accomplished by, a feminist. Ever. If they had brain matter rattling around in there at all, they wouldn’t identify with feminism.

Someone who's actually analyzed shit, thank you. The more workers you have, the less valuable they get,the easier to replace. Same as when the more friends you have, the less value they'll have by nature. Maybe not the best metaphor, but you get the point.

Irony is that you're blindly dismissing someone right now for disliking a meme movement. You do realize house wives are being shamed by feminists and told to become manly and work or to join whore culture, right? Many feminists have always pressured me to become something I am not and it is shallow and disgusting. No sane person likes feminism. Feminism ironically is sexist against its own people.

I'm not dismissing you. Both of the comments you replied to are me. I do agree that you shouldn't just say 'I don't like feminism' because feminism at it's core is a positive thing unless you think women should be oppressed, which I don't think you do. However, I also am on your side and think that feminism has had a lot of negative consequences and it's perfectly logical to dislike what feminism has become and it's effect on our civilization.

It's going to be very hard to find someone outside of the internet that will be able to debate with you in a reasonable matter on this issue. Like I said before, this is an emotional thing with most people. So when you disagree with their politics, they take it as a personal insult.

It depends on what you actually said. If you're content with being a housewife, there's nothing wrong with that. It's what you want. If you said something along the lines of "women are better off as housewives", of course they'd take offense to that.

For me, ideally, I'd like to marry a woman that does have a career or ambitions beyond being a housewife. If the person you want to marry is fine with it, I don't really see the issue.

I suppose it is miscommunication from us both. I don't just say "I don't like feminism, wtf". If someone asks my view, I say "well, I don't like it, I'm very traditional and want to be a house wife, feminism in today's world has caused a lot more negative than positive and tells women to be whores. I don't like whore culture, which has become a near synonym with feminism". The way you worded yourself sounded very different, likely because I can't hear your tone, I didn't understand your exact intentions, thanks for elaborating, user.

>Like I said before, this is an emotional thing with most people
I see, thanks, user. Again. This is why I try to keep myself callous and not attach emotion to politics. Law too is callous.

Women aren’t oppressed. That’s the key issue with your entire argument. Women WERE oppressed, but now you have the vote and all the rights of men. Feminism at large seems to be about giving women free status, advancement and praise now, even though they haven’t earned any of it, because not praising them and giving them anything they want supposedly oppresses women or something. The actual truth is, it would all be equal now if you would just let feminism die. We would all be equally poor, ignored and unsatsified. But you seem to think that men owe you something, even though you have all your rights and the men you’re stealing from are also poor and ignored. Rich people are not the norm. Nobody is owed status, money or advancement in exchange for nothing, and that includes women. You want something better? Here’s a thought feminism never had: work for it, just like any man would have to. Don’t whine, don’t bitch, because if we really are all equal, nobody will care, just as if a man had whined or bitched. You will be told to work for what you want, fairly. And you should be.

That is a good view, user, but so far that is not the response I get. My feminist friends have out right insulted me for wanting to be a house wife and called me lazy and selfish, even though I told them both my partner and I are traditional and want this type of relationship. Another pressured and told me "why don't you get a job, it's boring being a house wife, why not make your own money instead of being a slave?". It's ok for feminists to somehow insult me, but suddenly I'm evil for saying I don't want their life style? Kind of double standards.

The essence of feminism is freedom and opportunity. While purists might argue that you are implicitly supporting an unfair system by choosing to live within it, no true feminist could deny your right to freely choose the life you want.

For someone to say you can't be a housewife is precisely the same illogic as saying you can't be a business leader or President.

Look at this idiot

At its core feminism is rooted in marxism it has never been about equalty.
It is building on identity of female = good
Identity of male =bad

If it was ever about equality it would have been called egalitarianism but i dont think your tv and propeganda infused npc brain comprehends this

You can argue "muh equality for wimmins" all day but the fact of the matter is that it has always been a special protected group priveleges rallying cry.

Take an anecdote;
Womems right to vote
Womem only wanted it if they could be free of service and so this special privelege was fought for by brigades of screaming banshees "for muh equality" even tho men still have draft and women are priveleged out of it.

Yes that is what feminism has become in the current year. However, what I am talking about is the dictionary definition, the definition that say feminism mean equal rights for women. Most girls who call themselves feminist, simply believe in the dictionary definition. They don't consider what the idea of feminism has become or what it has been used for. So when they hear 'I don't like feminism' They don't consider that you could mean anything other then 'I don't want women to have equal rights'. That's why they get angry and emotional and refuse to talk about it. It's just ignorance.

We are not talking about the hidden intentions or agendas of feminism. We are talking about why girl's get angry with OP simply for bringing up that she doesn't like feminism. The reason for that I explained above. They don't know about all of that, all they know is
>feminism = equal rights for women
That's the core principle that made people support it.

Yeah, the world is full of them. If they insult you over something that's none of their business, they aren't your friends.

They are not "true" feminists, then. I'm a childfree woman building my career but I don't think that a woman choosing to be a housewife makes her selfish or lazy. My mother was a homemaker, the emotional and physical labor involved is a full-time job and should be respected. I was the second poster to your thread, and want to apologize for going on the offense towards you and calling you ignorant- I didn't know your friends were attacking you like that, that's unkind and not even in the spirit of the feminist ideals they claim to support. This sort of crap is why I can't participate in online childfree communities, everybody is all focused on feeling superior and more evolved than the "stupid mombies" and it leaves such a bad fucking taste in my mouth. I'm a grown woman, I'm not a petty teenager anymore, we should all be building each other up as women and not tearing each other down for our life choices. It's not a competition, we all have different values and life paths, it's so ignorant of people to judge everybody based on what they think is the most fulfilling path.

>No you are not a true feminist

No true scotsman fallacies bore me

>Women aren’t oppressed
Women are still oppressed in most countries on very different levels. They're oppressed when they have no voting rights in some shithole country and they're oppressed when they're paid less than a man for the same job position.

It depends on your definition of feminism.

If it's
>Men and women are for all intents and purposes equal and should be treated equally under the law

That's silly not to believe in it. But that isn't necessarily feminism.. or how it exists now.

If your conception is
>Feminism is the movement to take back power from a power struggle society predicated on patriarchal aggression - including restricting speech when necessary to ensure the power transfer from the oppressors to the oppressed

Which is arguably accurate - then yeah of course you don't believe that.

Most self described feminists can't even describe feminism - and so fall back on the first definition whether or not it suits their actions.

In all western countries it is illegal to discriminate by gender when deciding salary
If you know of any situation where this is happening please call the police

But i know you wont. Because you have a statistic that was made by someone with zero understanding of math contextual analysis and you accept this as hard truth for you have no other excuse for your own ineptitude.

>My feminist friends have out right insulted me for wanting to be a house wife and called me lazy and selfish, even though I told them both my partner and I are traditional and want this type of relationship. Another pressured and told me "why don't you get a job, it's boring being a house wife, why not make your own money instead of being a slave?".

They don't know what they're talking about, they know nothing about feminism. They're lame as fuck. Feminism stands with you, do what makes you happy.

In all western countries it is illegal to discriminate by gender when deciding salary

Oh yes and ofc when something is not legal it just doesn't exist

Tell them that while you appreciate what it has done in the past, it's been corrupted by misandrist fools that see "equality" as special treatment plus all the rights men have. If they ask what you mean, point out all the shit women can get away with that men can't.

>How bad and risky is it if I tell female friends that I don't like feminism, when they ask my opinion?
Lets be really honest here. Saying you don't like feminism is like saying you don't like politics. It is an opinion and a statement too broad to be legitimate. The biggest mistake that people here make is being dreadfully uneducated on viewpoints they claim to disagree with. Feminism is a massive ideology. It spans the entire globe and has never, is not and never will be a unifying set of ideals. There's multiple waves, inter-sectional, non-inter sectional and even TERFs, a brand of feminism that is extremely exclusionary to trans or non-binary individuals. Even among these individual groups of feminism there are wildly differentiating principals. Feminists aren't a species of Pokemon. They're all different kinds of people from all over the world who routinely do not agree with each other. So, when you say you don't like feminism I'd ask you to qualify your statement. Exactly what kind of feminism do you not like? Which specific tenants of feminism do you disagree with? Which tenants of feminism do you believe is at odds with your desire to be a housewife? Most importantly, why do you believe that the entirety of feminism is invalid? Is your quarrel with first world feminism or third world feminism? If I had to guess, people are probably getting angry with you because you're making a broad, uneducated statement. "I don't believe in feminism" is, frankly, an idiotic statement based simply on how broad and undefined it is. Try to frame your opinions with some knowledge and at least a half-assed attempt to be logical and people will most likely find less of a reason to be upset with you.

Attached: 1504655900928s.jpg (250x250, 7K)

Communism was also good on paper, im not gonna support a movement by its definition alone. Actions speak louder than words

When you feel like you are being discriminated against at work, then you can sue your employer. The law is on your side. What more do you want?

You can define it by how you want to but that's just how I (and a large amount of people) will define feminism (equal rights and choice for women). You can define it from the crazy 3rd-wave crap but I think it's unfair to dismiss all the work women did for decades to get our society to where it is now. I said my piece, sorry to derail, that's it from me

>paid less than a man for the same job position.
Total lie made up to get you to vote democrat. There are a lot of factors that go into how much you get paid. It would take a really in depth study of each person to figure out exactly how their salary was determined. If you go to target and get a entry level job, it's going to be the same salary no matter who you are.

>Total lie made up to get you to vote democrat.
Nope. Not a total lie, just mostly misleading. There is a pay gap but it is much, much smaller than the number reported. When taking into account the dozens of mitigating factors that decide one's salary (experience, education, hazard pay etc.,) men make a very small percentage over women but it is a percentage nonetheless. In fact, a recent study found that men are more likely to negotiate higher salaries than women for the same positions. While I don't agree that the pay gap exists solely because of misogyny or bias the fact is that there is a small gap in pay between men and women that can't be quantified. Look it up for yourself.

>If you go to target and get a entry level job
These aren't the jobs they're talking about. They're talking about jobs with negotiated salaries or similarly negotiated award structures - actual in-depth studies have found women paid less for the same work as men, and there aren't that many factors at play. I'd post them, but I don't have the bookmarked folder on this computer and let's be honest, you'd just skim it to find a flaw with the journal/researchers/sample size or something and not read the rest anyway.

That's not how my country works. I have friends who were asked if they plan to start a family at job interviews, if you refuse to answer, you won't get the job probably. And what you do since you have no proof and probably no money or time to invest in a lawyer?
It's not always so easy. Shit that's wrong still happens because some people think it's okay.

>While I don't agree that the pay gap exists solely because of misogyny or bias
This is the total lie I'm talking about. There is no oppression.

Yea I know they aren't talking about those kinds of jobs because if there was actually oppression going on, you'd be able to see it plain as day in jobs like that.
Yes there are a lot of factors. I don't much care what your studies say because of the simple fact that paying someone less because of their gender is ILLEGAL. There isn't anything more that can be done about it, it's already illegal. If a woman out there is being discriminated against but doesn't do anything about it, then that's her own fault. There is no nationwide systemic oppression of women going on.

>I... Thanks. I do have a boyfriend. He was very surprised by our similar views.
Good for you, I sincerely hope you guys can live well lived lives together.
As for your friends, keep in mind that if you ever have children they will be heavily influenced by the people they grow up with and are around them.
It's your responsibility as a future parent to make sure your kids end up in the most healthy enviroment you can provide for them.
What healthy entails is up to you, but it sounds to me like you have your head on straight.
Make sure you are not too nice for people, most of them don't deserve nearly as much as they are given.

Thanks for that. I will say though, however, one of them was no casual feminist. The one calling me lazy despite by partner also wanting me to be a house wife, was someone who has read tons of feminist literature. In fact, she's even shared some of the said literature with me, and occationally I'd agree or like some of it. Despite all research she's done, she still insulted me for... How both me and my partner choose to live out our relationship. I used to take interest in feminism before it became overly sexual (hell, if I ever became a feminist today, I'd be the "sex negative feminist" who believe women sexualising themselves is favoring and giving depraved men what they want), and I have noticed many feminists online just shitting on other women for being more traditional in how they live out their lives. This isn't just some of my friends who act like this, a good chunk of feminists do this, hence why I left the community. It has a toxic side to it. Of course, not saying all feminists are this, however the community lately has had a growing number of these types of members who tear down other women all the time. The place had been turning more and more toxic, to the point I couldn't stay anymore. It is good to hear that people like you still exist wihh in the group though, however my experiences with feminists irl has not been as pleasant as with you. There is even a feminist youtuber i take interest in, even though most of my views would not align with feminists' views, I still am curious. I won't form random opinions about something without researching it. I am an extremely "manly" female, people all the time mistake me for a teen boy, I have short hair and hate make up, so feminists love me for that until they find out about my relationship life. Hope this clears up a bit more why some women are beginning to leave the feminist thing or double question it.

Attached: 4cd1369d9a5baf893d3ea67ee2f2a82d.jpg (500x326, 14K)

>This is the total lie I'm talking about. There is no oppression.
Careful, user. If you want to talk facts then lets talk facts but you inserting your assumption that oppression doesn't exist simply because the variable isn't quantifiable is just as logically incorrect as someone else inserting their assumption that it does exist. What we know for a fact is that after all the variables have been accounted for there is a small percentage difference in pay between men or women that cannot be quantified. We have no logical explanation and/or do not have enough information to quantify it yet. I'm not saying that the percentage exists solely because of oppression either but the fact of the matter is neither you or I have enough information to decide either way. Its a bit hypocritical to rail against "feminism" using gaps in information to assert an agenda then turning around and doing the exact same thing.

Well first of all I'm obviously not talking about your country. Vote to change the laws there if you want, I don't care. Second of all, why would an employer want to hire someone who won't be able to come to work because they are pregnant and constantly taking time off to take care of their kids. Businesses are fragile. Employees cost businesses more then just their salary. You got healthcare, insurance, maternity leave, all kinds of things. They can't afford to waste money on people who don't generate money for the business.

People need to stop thinking that the world was designed to make their lives comfortable and easy. You've got to contribute to society to get something back.

Pretty much. Sadly, a ton of feminists call me bad or enslaved or "lazy" for my and my partner's mutual choice in how we want our relationship to be shaped. Why does this then happen so frequently when I communicate with other feminists if it isn't true to feminism? It is why I went from being ok with feminism to "man, this feminism thing seems rude and close minded, I don't like this anymore, I always get insulted for my personal life goals. Why do I get pressured to change my relationship life by these people, who aren't affected by it at all?".

Attached: 27657.png (196x192, 63K)

> feminism is about giving each woman the liberty to choose

feminism is about increasing women's privilege and power in society. Even more than men. It clearly isn't about equality anymore. Women nowadays can do anything they want and they aren't held up to the same legal or social standards as men. And if you say they should, then you're labeled a sexist.

You should stop getting your information about feminism from Jow Forums memes and actually speak to people in real life. You may actually learn something.

Sorry, you're wrong.
Even if there is an unquantified inequality, which I'm not even sure there is, you're still the one jumping to the conclusion that it's because of some degree of sexism or inequality between male/female.

>Sadly, a ton of feminists call me bad or enslaved or "lazy"
Where are you interacting with these people?

>What we know for a fact is that after all the variables have been accounted for there is a small percentage difference in pay between men or women that cannot be quantified.
No we don't know this for a fact. There is no study out there that could possibly come close to accounting for every single variable. These types of things can only be determined on a case by case basis.

>rail against "feminism"
I never once mentioned feminism. I'm not against feminism, I'm against propaganda designed to emotionally manipulate people like the 'pay gap'.

Hello, alt-righter larping as a fascist. Let me further add context that's often missed.

>era where women couldn't vote was a greater society
Back in the day, husband and wife meant being a unit. The man and woman had to discuss in depth about why they wanted to vote on x thing, and make logical arguments, until one eventually agreed with the other. Then the man went out and voted on what both he and his wife chose to vote on. These days feminism wants man and woman divided. It wants to create cock envy. It wants more workers, which means both sexes will be more exhausted and tired and have no time for their children, who greatly miss and need at least one parent in their lives. Ideally, a child growing with 2 parents to bond with is best, having one mother and occationally a father is OK, having no parent is just forced neglect.

Feminism is just about making women go against men, until men get annoyed and want to go against women. Back in the 1950s, if a man ever laid a hand on his wife, he'd get punched as soon as she'd complain to a friend or neighbor. Women never needed feminism during the 20th century, the only women who need feminism if anything are middle eastern Muslim women.

>you're still the one jumping to the conclusion that it's because of some degree of sexism or inequality between male/female.
I literally said that neither you nor I have enough information to say either way. I specifically said that there was a percentage that was not quantifiable. That's it. It hasn't been quantified. There is no explanation for it. I don't know where you got the idea that I came to any conclusion. Did you even read my post?

>why would an employer want to hire someone who won't be able to come to work because they are pregnant and constantly taking time off to take care of their kids

Because that's discrimination you asshole and man should be asked this too then since in most of the civilized countries they too can get a leave when they get parents

A man doesn't need to take a huge amount of time off during the pregnancy. And yes if the law requires employers to give both men and women paid maternity leave, then they should ask the men too.

>There is no study out there that could possibly come close to accounting for every single variable.
Ok. Let me explain this again. Men get paid a slight percentage more than women, on average. It is a very, very small percentage. Much less than the 20% or whatever it is that is reported. This small percentage cannot be explained. The reason this percentage cannot be explained is precisely because there is no study that can account for every single variable. So yes, we do know this for a fact. Why this gap exists, nobody knows for sure but, like I said, its very small.

>These types of things can only be determined on a case by case basis
That isn't how averages work, user. Statistics are irrelevant on a case by case basis.

Uhhh... Not same user but there is an issue in this view. A woman who had a baby has to breast feed and look after the baby all the time, she will not be able to work properly during this, forcing the company in some countries to pay her while she stays at home. If a man is starting a family, he can still go to the job, he doesn't have boobs filled with milk that's needed for their baby to stay healthy. Even my feminist friends would become house wives for a couple years if they got a baby.

>Men and women are for all intents and purposes equal and should be treated equally under the law
They are both already equal in most countries, and I'm someone who immigrated from a sexist country. I know what sexism is. I left my homeland for that purpose. You don't have to be a feminist to want same law rights for same people. Feminism literally no longer has a purpose to exist in western countries.

Another way of saying "you can never define feminism, whatever argument you make against it, it will always be wrong, feminism is everywhere." this isn't 4th grade. This is a very immature way to make an argument. Every ideology has a set of rules. It wouldn't be a group if it didn't have a basic set of rules.

Let me quote your first post again
> after all the variables have been accounted for
That's what you said, so I responded accordingly.

>Statistics are irrelevant on a case by case basis.
Especially broad statistics that haven't accounted for all of the variables, which is exactly what I'm talking about. Every job is different, everyone takes a different path to their current job, every boss is different, every company is different. There is no standardized set of rules that go into what a person earns at work. Their salary could be affected by potentially hundreds of variables or even more. The pay gap statistic is completely useless information that with the slightest tweak could show the opposite. This is textbook propaganda. They take a statistic that doesn't really mean anything and present it in a way that manipulates you into thinking whatever they want.

Everywhere. School life, childhood friends, online, group servers, online friends, artist groups, art gatherings, etc. The art community also is full of these toxic types of feminists, and I am active there since I'm an artist who sells.

That user isn't even wrong though. That's literally what feminism has become. Feminism has failed and needs to die, a new group needs to be created. Either form a new, more well thought of group for women or not make a group at all since women already have all the basic rights men have. Why not put your time and energy into something more useful, like fighting against Muslim men who beat up women and force hijabs onto them?

>"you can never define feminism, whatever argument you make against it, it will always be wrong, feminism is everywhere."
You're a moron. You CAN define feminism, that was precisely my point. Nowhere in my post did I even remotely suggest that there was no legitimate argument against specific tenants of feminism but first you actually have to define what those tenants are. Nowhere in my post did I suggest that arguing against "feminism" was wrong but "feminism" is incredibly broad. There is dozens of different kinds. What exactly about feminism does OP not like? That's the only question I asked.

>Every ideology has a set of rules. It wouldn't be a group if it didn't have a basic set of rules.
Feminism is not one group. It is several different groups scattered across several different generations from several different countries.

You seem cool, OP. Your bf is a lucky guy.

>The pay gap statistic is completely useless information that with the slightest tweak could show the opposite. This is textbook propaganda.
Again, that isn't how averages work. Any one person can have a different salary for any combination of reasons. That's why we have averages, user. Seriously, dude, you need to educate yourself. Statistics aren't propaganda. They're just numbers. Whether you like the numbers or not is irrelevant.

>Feminism is all about giving women the choice to have careers, be homemakers, or do whatever they wish.
Plenty of feminists take it way past that and demand all kinds of initiatives to encourage what they see as the ideal for women and discourage what they don't like. Some don't like whores, some don't like homemakers. The only true unifying aspect of feminism is their brand of rhetoric.

And just because you collect a bunch of numbers and make an average doesn't mean you can make any meaningful conclusions with it. Data without context and analysis means nothing. If you haven't figured out by now that data can be presented differently to provoke different conclusions, then you are the one who needs to educate yourself. The propaganda part comes in when political groups use this meaningless information to implant an idea into people's head. An idea like women are being paid less then men on purpose.

What is the problem with this though? Lots of boomers think it's novel to have a housewife type of deal, but in reality it seems like a bad idea. Would you rather have a woman who sits at home all day and relies on you but you have total control of the relationship. A woman having some independence in her life is more desirable to me and I'm glad it's changing in that way.

You're literally proving my point. You're again saying feminism is too ambiguous and cannot be defined precisely what it is, therefor magically you're not allowed to disagree with it. It's like me saying you cannot disagree with fascism because there's several forms of it, or saying you can't disagree with conservatives because it also has tons of views and variations. Fuck yourself up, user. Go back to reddlt.

>Would you rather have a woman who sits at home all day and relies on you but you have total control of the relationship.
Nice toxic materialistic world view there.

This. Feminism is about giving women a choice. Of course it's also about preventing men from having those same choices and screaming "misogyny" whenever somebody tries to do something about male gender roles.
Feminism is shit but not for the reasons OP thinks

I don't need to "speak to people in real life" who have been indoctrinated to parrot view points or read Jow Forums posts to form an opinion. All you have to do is read news story and look at the world and you'll see feminism is not about equality.

Women nowadays are in every way equal to men. But they can get away with a lot more than men and have privileges men don't. Current day feminism wants to increase that and take way rights men have

Everyday people are waking up to it too

You are being a dick and basically shitting over a million of women who work their asses off being house wives. The emotional and physical work isn't an easy challenge. Hell, women used to get rewards and badges even for such work back in the day. Fuck you.

She is not being controlled by her man unless he is a Muslim. She can go out and do whatever she wants after she's cleaned and maintained the house for that day, to balance out how her husband works his ass off at his job. She has free time to form new hobbies, get into arts, become further educated yet faggots like you try to steal this away from us. People like you ruined female life = fun.

>You're again saying feminism is too ambiguous and cannot be defined precisely what it is
That isn't what I'm saying at all. I'm not going to repeat myself if you're not going to bother to read.
>therefor magically you're not allowed to disagree with it
That isn't even remotely close to what I said. Nowhere in my post did I say anything that even subtly implies that it isn't okay to disagree with feminist ideals. In fact, I specifically said there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with it. If you're going to claim to disagree with something but you are also completely unable to articulate exactly what it is you disagree and why with then prepare for people to call you a moron. That's it. Your reading comprehension skills are shit, user.

There are countless lazy cunts whose life aspiration is to laze around the house and pop children every 2 years. Op isn't special.

>read news story
>look at the world
You're completely uneducated.

Not everyone is smart enough to get a degree in gender studies.

>And just because you collect a bunch of numbers and make an average doesn't mean you can make any meaningful conclusions with it.
You know absolutely nothing at statistics. This is the third time I've said that the statistics on the topic do not provide a conclusion. There is a statistical difference between the average pay of men and women that has no conclusion. That is an objective fact. I don't know what part about this concept is so difficult for you to understand.

What is so toxic about what I said? Should a woman choose to be a housewife I don't care but they shouldn't be forced into a boxed mentality of doing it. Financial independence gives you a lot more freedom then you realize. Maybe im wrong but it's how I view the situation.

I'm a guy and told a girl at work I'm neutral towards it and she didn't care. Another girl I talked to I kept making a bunch of derogatory comments and she ended up falling in live with me. I guess it depends on how you present yourself.

And I never once said that there wasn't. I said that the statistic is meaningless because it doesn't account for all of the variables. What part of that concept do you not understand?

Apparently, not everyone is smart enough to get their information about topics from hard facts and statistics instead of online news outlets and just "looking" at the world. Your anecdotal drivel means absolutely nothing. You don't need a degree in gender studies to understand that.

>I said that the statistic is meaningless because it doesn't account for all of the variables. What part of that concept do you not understand?
You're so fucking stupid it hurts. Please do some research on averages. Averages exist for the specific purpose of accounting for the fact that we cannot account for every known variable in existence. You have absolutely zero clue how statistics work. To say that averages and statistics are meaningless because they don't account for every single variable is so beyond retarded I can't begin to grasp how a person could believe such a ridiculous thing.

Google "aggregate data", user. You're a bit out of your wheelhouse here.

My objection was to how you said that men control a relationship because they make money and implied that women in that situation are of of less worth than women who are "financially independent". Boiling down someone's worth to money is crude to put it mildly.

Have you ever tried surviving without money, user?

>this thread

Attached: just a cool normal guy.jpg (1000x562, 86K)

but what statistics and "hard facts" prove feminist talking points? They would do the opposite if anything. biological differences account for why men and women are different and have different societal roles

I'm not the guy you've been arguing with, I just popped into mock you while you were on your intellectual high horse.

You're missing his point that a statistic and how you interpret that statistic are separate issues and instead talking over him, calling him uneducated. Maybe he is, how would I know on here, but he makes up for it in maturity at least.

>people that don't agree with me are MGTOW or incels reeeee

Not sure what relevance that has. I don't believe someone with less money isn't worth less as a person than me, which is what was saying.