What changed in the past couple of decades that men are being told they need to "learn game" and that "attracting and...

Not true

As if. I'm pretty sure if I had a good career and were successful at my hobbies, I still wouldn't be able to compete against a woman's ability to go on Tinder/OkCupid and find someone with better facial genetics. Back then you had to leave the house to meet anyone and even if you joined a club or a church, you would have access to maybe 10-15 suitable non-taken men. The more options you have, the harder it is to make a choice. It's a lot easier to figure out out of 15 men which one you want to give a chance versus 100 guys, and 10 new guys each day. People are all about optimization and perfection nowadays, they don't want to settle in case a better guy pops up on a dating site the next day.

Not all women use Tinder and even the ones that do, do not all think the same kind of guy is attractive. I'm a mixed guy, and short, so I'm painfully aware of the fact that my taller, Caucasian brethren typically fair better in online dating etc. However, I've also had women be insanely attracted to my appearance as well as my personality (and they've told me so). What you might wanna ask yourself is this: just how many women do you want interested in you, and what type of woman would you want to be with in a longer term relationship? I know that if I had even just a few girls interested in me it would be tricky, because I really want to just settle down with a "nice girl" (vague, generic shit, I know, I'm sorry). A lot of male dating advice seems to assume the reader just wants to get laid and have many girlfriends, or it tells you that's the proper way to go about it. While it's not wrong for many guys, it's also not right for all guys. I don't disagree that you may have to date many women or even just more than one, before you find a suitable marriage partner, if that's what you want. But I also don't think it's necessary you push for sex too quickly in order to make her fall in love with you - really, the biggest criticism anyone could have for dating advice, it's the idea that you can never be rejected again, so long as your game is good enough. You can do everything "right" and not get with someone who isn't interested - on the other hand a woman who's really into you will be more forgiving of "BIG ATTRACTION KILLING MISTAKES!!!" like texting too soon.

The dating market has become more competitive now than it was back in the, say, 50's and 60's. Back in those days, women were more dependent on a finding a man. Back then, as long as you had a decent job and you were able to provide for a woman and her children, you were desirable enough to quite easily find a girlfriend and eventually wife her up. In fact. often times you didn't even have to go around looking for girls yourself. Sometimes your family might even set you up with someone elses daughter who was available. Women nowadays are less in need of a man because they can take care of themselves mostly. Thus, their standards have risen. Being an average Joe isn't good enough anymore to both seduce and keep hold of a decently attractive woman. Women in their early twenties no longer want to settle down with an average guy. They would rather stay single and try and lock down a high quality guy.

It's simply economics. The demand for men has fallen, while the supply has stayed the same. In fact, i would argue that supply has kind of increased due to dating apps like Tinder which has given women ultimate access to random dickings if they want. Every woman nowadays who is atleast a 7/10 in looks has random dick thrown her way every single day. This definitely wasn't the case when your grandfather was in his youth looking for a girlfriend.

>Tl;dr
Dating has become more difficult for men because the standards of women have increased.

It's fine if women have standards, they should always be allowed standards. That said? Just because women can provide for themselves and live an amazing life, doesn't mean they will. Women can be "losers", just like men can. I know some who still live with or otherwise very heavily rely on the parents for financial things. Yeah, you're allowed to be 26, in poor physical shape, have an entry level job and still set the bar for a man in your life no lower than six feet or taller, fix figure salary and massive social value. That doesn't mean those guys will be interested in you or want you for anything other than sex.

Now I don't want to be confused as some kinda incel for what I just said, so I'll add that I don't think all or even *most* women have too high standards. If anything, the standard I've come across that's the most common is "we have a connection", and I know plenty of women who won't care as much about financial security or even looks so long as they feel really strongly about the guy. This can of course swing the wrong way when some asshole takes advantage of and manipulates her for sex etc., but overall if a woman just wants to be with a guy she feels strongly for and would rather stay single than be with someone she doesn't actually feel in love with, it's for everyone's benefit. Men should be doing the same thing, honestly.

A more competitive dating market, and rising expectations and ego, meeting decling living standards from a destroyed/poorly organized/rigged economy.

The most materially equal period of the last 1000 years of hunman history was the start of WW1 till the end of WW2. The 50's were built on the back of a 1000 year engima and people act like it's the garden variety life.

Our grandfathers learned the game from their fathers, cousins and older brothers. We didn't have the same luck.

Men are being told that by other men. It’s capitalism, selling a fix to men who are unsuccessful with women. Before you were the weird uncle who died unmarried without kids, or the weird guy with the weird wife. There were plenty of them. Now it’s the creepy rapey uncle who watches youtube videos made by douchebags trying to make a dime off him.

I agree with your sentiment but saying guys will only want them for sex says a lot more about men than women. And it doesnt show them in a good light. If anyone gives women more reasons to be very particular to avoid that.

Btw I'm a different person but have posted my own response

>Yeah, you're allowed to be 26, in poor physical shape, have an entry level job and still set the bar for a man in your life no lower than six feet or taller, fix figure salary and massive social value. That doesn't mean those guys will be interested in you or want you for anything other than sex.
But to be honest, this kind of sums op the dating market in today's world. It's just the reality of the world we live in.

The majority of women who have barely anything to offer still think they can snag a high quality guy or atleast a guy who is hot. Problem is, these men only want them for sex and will never truly commit. So you're left with the majority of women hopelessly chasing after the minority of guys, while the majority of men are left scraping out whatever is left at the bottom.

If you want to become successful in today's dating market as a guy, you need to put serious effort into becoming high quality. Either be better looking than average, or be more successful than average. You need SOMETHING. Being mediocre (or heck, below-average) on all fronts is a recipe for inceldom in 2019.

Rich, powerful, and/or attractive men have always gotten pussy and always will. More importantly, though, is that there is a capitalist market today (that there wasn't really before), feeding off of young men's insecurities on finding sex or love. This is a new industry preying on men, but women have had almost exactly the same capitalist market feeding off of young girls' insecurities about finding love for decades. In other words, your inability is manufactured through capitalism to convince you that expensive watches, expensive fashionable clothes, expensive cologne, expensive cars, expensive hobbies, and gold memberships for dating sites are the "markers" for success. It's the same shit as women thinking they need expensive jewelry, expensive makeup, expensive fashionable clothes, expensive perfume, and expensive diets and meme workouts to attract a guy. It's all bullshit homie. People have found people without this shit for millennia, just don't buy into the cult and find a bitch who also doesn't buy into the cult. Anyone selling you how to fuck/date "like a pro" is preying on your insecurities that you're not already enough for a girl. Don't fall for that shit.

Back then men were taught to be men. That's all they needed to attract a women. Now young boys are brought up in a feminized society, they've been blurring the line between masculine and feminine, teaching boys completely untrue things about life, women, and love. So now we have a generation of men who have come of age but haven't learned how to be men. We are disillusioned and dumb-founded when we encounter the truth. It's not easy to recover from that.

yeah fuck the bourgeois, proletariat rise up my fellow redditor!

>be OP
>be edgy teenager virgin
>think he is an expert on what dating was like before he was born

I think this more than anything is the problem. With globalization you can easily find people from all over the world in a lot of locations on a daily basis. Meaning, people have plenty of options and they know this so naturally they will be very careful about who they date to get the best deal. So if you want a date, you have to stand out somehow.

Memeing doesn't make it untrue. OP asked why people need to take classes and read books on how to date today, and the answer is that people don't. They're just gullible idiots with low self-esteem.

Kind of sums it up, in the sense that yes...women will use old to try to "bat out of their league" and have realized they can. I know many overweight women who fully admit to using stuff like Tinder to find hookups with dudes on a frequent basis, and they've acknowledged how much easier it is for them than guys to get said hookups. Some of them at least, have already realized that those hookups will not lead to anything, and one even recently described herself as a "lonely bitch".

To me you don't have to be insanely "high value" to get a girl. That's where incels get it wrong. No sane "average" woman thinks she has a real chance with a professional athlete like Tom Brady or Sidney Crosby. No reasonable "average" man thinks this is what he needs to do before *any* woman will love him. Obviously, if you're a guy and only ever want to date 21 y.o. sorority girls with gorgeous bodies, and you haven't the social means to meet them or the looks to match them, you'll probably not do so well. Similarly if you're a girl who's overweight and sits around all day watching Netflix, it's probably unreasonable for you to expect a shredded surfer frat boy to show up on your door step and ask you to marry him. I think this has been generally accepted wisdom for the longest time. When I look at some of the guys that female friends or coworkers get the hots for, some of them are not exceptional looking. Yeah, maybe they have some conventionally attractive features like being tall or having broad shoulders, but they're rarely the true image of "chad" that folks at r9k think you need to be before any woman likes you. At the same time, a lot of the girls crushing aren't amazing looking themselves if we're talking strictly genetics or weight related shit.

Oh I don't disagree with that, in fact I lose respect for guys who seem to use women for sex anyways. Not as a m'lady whiteknight but as someone who thinks it's just lacking empathy.

What makes a man a man, user?

I don't know because they didn't teach me.

>To me you don't have to be insanely "high value" to get a girl.
I'm not saying you have to be insanely high value. I'm just saying high value enough that women sense you're atleast somewhat above average. They have to feel like they can 'gain' something from being with you (hypergamy). You basically have 2 options:

>be successful, or make yourself look like you will be in the future
In other words, you should either be having a successful business, be working a well-paying job, or you're pursuing a very solid degree.

>be better looking
I'm not talking about being a male model. But i would say, if you're not successful like i described above, you need to be atleast a 7.5 out of 10 in terms of looks to compensate.

If you're a guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds, and you're bang-average in terms of looks, you are fucked my friend. No woman wants you.

>What changed?

Smash Ultimate came out and it changed everything.

>business, degree, or job
>if you're a guy flipping burgers at mcdonald's, and are bang average in terms of looks
Eh. The few guys I know, who are really good with women, to the point of being actual chads, didn't do these things. One just works at Target as a regular employee, not a manager or anything, but works out a lot and got seriously fit so women noticed him. The other one can't keep a job to save his life, he's just really good at partying and being the kind of fun that women are drawn to. The latter dude is not amazing looking and he said so himself.

Now, I won't lie and say you're completely wrong. If you have those things, you definitely have better chances and will probably have more interested women. But as someone who used to think like you constantly, I looked around and saw that it just wasn't true for the vast majority of relationships. If there is one thing dating advice as an industry taught me, it that's how you make a woman feel matters a lot. That's not to say her feelings are under your control, or should be, but basically, if she feels something - particularly, turned on - around you, then a lot of the time, that's all it really takes. And it's just so damn different from one woman to the next, what turns them on, and what doesn't.

What changed? Almost every woman today thinks she's model tier. Today's women are the most arrogant women in history

How hot are the women they are getting? This is just curiosity before you think i'm trying to disprove anything

Man skills used to be celebrated, now they are considered toxic or even criminal.

My mother could behead and clean a chicken, because that is what you did. If the cat had kittens, grandpa would take most of them behind the barn and break their necks because that is what you did to keep the farm running smoothly.

For the Target guy it depends, he had a lot of women of varying attractiveness interested in him, including cute, young teenagers and early 20's girls. For the other guy he claimed to bang models and I wouldn't doubt it. Personally I'll go back to my own anecdotes. For now I work a pretty basic retail job but am working on something better, and I've had women of varying attractiveness show interest. I think it becomes a little more nuanced than just "looks matching" though. Comparability plays a part, but it's not about liking the same music or movies, it's about lifestyle choices and values. As Mark Manson puts it, there's friction that can be had between two people trying to date. A high friction situation is when a STEM student who goes to parties once a year wants to date a super outgoing sorority girl who clubs every Friday and Saturday night. It's not necessarily that he's not good looking enough, as much as it is that they would be very unlikely to enjoy the same activities and value the same things in life.

Don't get me wrong, some people care a lot about looks and have a specific 'type' they won't budge on. I'd even hazard most people do. But there's a good enough amount of people who care less about looks specific things like race or height and care more about a solid connection - this isn't to be confused with thinking you can let yourself go completely and still have no issue getting women. You have to bring *something* to the table.

That's savagery. It happens a lot below the border. My mom told me she and a bunch of kids beat a poor female dog to the point she was coughing up pieces of something. She did it because they had an uncle that told them to kill her. The dog survived but barely. There have been and still are a lot of people like that today. Trump wasn't completely off the mark when he used stereotypes on certain people. The only ones that can put an end to these cycles of savagery are the young kids.

Interesting anecdote about money and dating in the German Democratic Republic.

Attached: gdrdating.jpg (1024x764, 181K)

>Did our fathers and grandfathers, and their fathers and grandfathers, have to learn the "art" of attracting a woman?

Nothing changed.

You only hear about the men who had children.

Some were naturals and some had to learn, but you only hear the success stories. Confirmation bias.

A lot of men died childless throughout history, but nobody remembers their story because there's no one left to tell it.

>in the past couple of decades
>our fathers

the fuck are you talking about in I'm my 30s and nothing changed in the past couple of decades

EXCEPT

the internet became a tool to spread terrible ideas around to sad idiots. Which is why incels and PUA didn't exist up until a few years ago.

Also previous generations knew to settle and to accept that they were ugly or fat or autistic, so they would settle for a fat autistic ugly partner instead of having sex with anime pilllows while waiting for a 10/10 unicorn gf that doesn't exist for them.

In the 90s you still had to know how to talk to a girl and all that shit, it is a skill like any other social skill. The only difference is that there wasn't failed Chads trying to shill their books and youtube channels and Patreon on incel websites like Jow Forums.

Before internet incels grew up and left the basement. Now they have an echo chamber and stay incels longer because of this cultist movement thing.

>incels didn't exist until a few years ago
Nah, they've existed forever, see >PUA's didn't exist until a few years ago
I think the very first ushering in of PUA culture came about with Neil Strauss' book "The Game" which has been out for many years now

>you still had to know how to talk to girls
Of course, most guys go through this period of trial and error. But now, we have people like Coach Corey Wayne saying you need to buy his book and read it fifteen or twenty times before you're ready to date and keep a woman. Imagine. No, you can't just like go out and talk to girls and botch a few interactions before you meet someone who likes you back. No, it's a fucking process now, that's conveniently locked behind paywalls.

I know two guys who immigrated from the middle east. When they got around the ages of 12-13 their father would tell them about their experience with women, what worked and what didn't, what they liked and what they didn't. Even sexually. Those guys are pretty decent with women. Sure, they get rejected like any other man but theyre more confident about taking the role of initiating and charming. When I've got a son I'll tell him stuff too

Exactly. They didn't even call themselves either that concept literally didn't exist until a few years ago.

When a kid back then couldn't get laid he was just like "oh well I guess I'm not the tight type of guy for those girls maybe I should go meet girls at the Blink 182 concert and do something with my hair" and now it's REEEEE FEMINAZIS CULTURAL MARXISM THIS IS BECAUSE OF MY GENES AND MY PARENTS AND CELL PHONES

It's a sad sad culture of victimhood

Men have always needed game to score with plenty of women

But in ages past women were declawed so they had to shut up and accept who their parents liked

Honestly it's just a symptom of our fucked up society. There are so many awful things in Western society that contribute to the current state that it's not a coincidence that everybody is awful and only looking out for themselves. It's just the logical way to survive in the great satan that is America.

Hopefully we will be cleansed by nuclear fire soon.

>Nah, they've existed forever, see

Virgins are not necessarily incels. Incels literally didn't exist in culture until like 2014 or some shit.

>I think the very first ushering in of PUA culture came about with Neil Strauss' book "The Game" which has been out for many years now

2005 is still a a few years ago. You can probably find books that are like HOW TO SWEET-TALK GALS INTO GOING TO PROM WITH YOU IN A HEALTHY CHRISTIAN WAY from the 1940s and whatever but again those aren't PUA.

>Of course, most guys go through this period of trial and error. But now, we have people like Coach Corey Wayne saying you need to buy his book and read it fifteen or twenty times before you're ready to date and keep a woman. Imagine. No, you can't just like go out and talk to girls and botch a few interactions before you meet someone who likes you back. No, it's a fucking process now, that's conveniently locked behind paywalls.

It's sad, people who grew up online are terrified of real-world experiences and trial and error so they pray to google to find a 'cheat code" that will let them find a gf. There's no such thing.

It means playing a roll. That isn't something bad per se, it can get you far.

No, savegery is letting the family farm be overrun with cats so the family ends up homeless.

Life is hard and sometimes hard things need to be done. It used to be women appreciated the men who had the skills and balls to do what has to be done to care for the family and the country. Now those same skills our considered savagery.

Most people don't live on a rat-infested farm, dipshit

Sexual revolution and Tinder basically fucked everything up for us. For me, it was especially very odd to see a 6'4 fit blond guy with a fatty who even I wouldn't date holding hands together. Made me think of how low I need to go as a manlet.
But I'm more curious about what women think of the current society or they simply don't care and don't mind being used as fucktoys by Chads. One thing they must know is that there will always be consequences when you got millions of lonely men in the country even if you don't care about having a stable society. Once it collapses, it will affect you also.

Literally the Hell that is pervasive globohomo is designed for single women. The progressive movements, the garbage "premium" take out restaurants like Panera Bread, Tinder. It all caters to them.

I've seen plenty of short guys with good looking women. That doesn't mean they're not rejected over height, but it also means said men are not hopeless in dating.

What you shouldn't do is feel "entitled" to a babe or care about looks above everything...if you want lasting love that is.

I don't disagree that women who like being used as sex toys for guys who don't care about them are a red flag. At best it means the women themselves are emotionally unavailable and seek the same in their partners. At worst, they are executing the dual-mating strategy that's touted in red-pill, that alpha fucks beta bucks shit. As much as we don't wanna believe it happens, I think it does, even if on a small scale.

Two things come to mind:

1) A lack of unsupervised childhood socialization.

Most people born after roughly 1990 don't actually know how to engage with people because their parents locked them inside due to the over reporting of child abductions in the 1990's leading to a cultural panic. This severely stunted the development of social skills, as children need thousands of truly unregulated interactions to get a feel for any social aspect. Any social interactions within structured settings like school, child care, or sports were insufficient because they were always under the direct supervision of adults. There is no such degree of supervision in the adult world, so young adults are left at a disadvantage.

2) An exponentially larger dating pool.

There are now literally millions of options at the fingertips of women, where up to roughly the 1970's their choices were typically limited by proximity from the low end of around a dozen, to a few hundred on the upper end. This is compounded by the issues mentioned in my first point, because being trapped inside gave them ample amounts of time to internalize romantic fetishization through media in a social vacuum. Not only do men have to be more appealing than the millions of actual men available to women, men also have to compete with warped facsimiles of men portrayed in all works of fiction that are engineered to be engaging to female desires to an intentionally addicting degree.

>I can't get a date so that means society will collapse, this is all Tinder's fault

news flash: you wouldn't have been able to get a date 15 years ago when Tinder didn't exist.

>Most people born after roughly 1990 don't actually know how to engage with people because their parents locked them inside due to the over reporting of child abductions in the 1990's leading to a cultural panic.

what the fuck are you talking about what cultural panic in the 1990s you sound like you were born in 2000, kids in the 90s would run around outside playing Pogs and their parents actively chased them out of the house to go play street hockey or whatever because they didn't want them to play Nintendo for more than an hour or two at a time.

What fucked young adults living today was them spending 16 hours a day on Jow Forums and watching porn when they were like 7 years old.

Women have agency now. Back in the day, even if she was raped and beaten everyday by her husband she would be ostracized for getting a divorce.

>projecting this much
Go back to tumblr and I've been on plenty of dates, but you're fucking retarded if you think there won't be consequences due to millions of lonely men who were raised by single mothers who got fucked and dumped.

le citation need

I don't think you know what projecting means. I'm not the one proclaiming the end of civilization because I once saw a fatty on a date with a man I thought was attractive.

>millions of lonely men who were raised by single mothers who got fucked and dumped.

What is this train of logic? Why are you now blaming mommy for you not being able to get a date?

Who hurt you?

Nothing really has changed. The only difference is that now this behavior is out in the open. Also, a lot of men don't realize how highly competitive dating has become. Girls that are 2/10 will still get 100's of messages through online dating thus inflating their egos and making then not settle down because they believe they are of higher value. The best comment on women I have ever heard has come from Married with Childer: " Women are never satisfied." once you realize this you will relax some. In my last relationship I fell hard for a women that I believed ( and this is the huge mistake most men make) was mature and past playing childish games. Like I really loved this women. she wanted us to be in an actual relationship after dating for some time. I would take her out all the time. buy her flowers and gifts all the time and drop them off at her job. Not in a weird you owe me sex incel kind of way but just because. Found out she met a guy online and cheated on me with him while I was at work. this kinda of stuff can easily turn a man bitter against all women... but thats just the way things are. just work on yourself. No matter how well your treat a women or how much you give up to make her "happy" she can be won over by some guy online. Women like playing games until they are the ones losing. this is why on online dating sites the women in their 30s always post " dont waste my time" "done playing games" their biological clock is ticking and they have become desperate.

>I don't think you know what projecting means.
You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me. But things will definitely change in the future, you're a fucking moron (or a woman) if you can't see it.

I dont think user is blaming mom, user is saying these kinds of families can and often breed individuals with stunted development. It does happen, some guys I know that were antisocial didn't have their dads around.

>You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me

The very first thing you wrote was how Tinder and 1960s feminism "fucked everything" for you and then how triggered you were when you saw a guy dating a fat chick and started to wonder how far you would have to go. Civilization will collapse because of this.

Now you're telling me that you're just totally getting dates all the time it's not a problem at all.

I grew up without having a father in my life or any real strong male role model, outside having a 'Big Brother' as part of that program when I was young. And when I got older he wasn't around to "explain women" to me. I definitely feel like I missed out, so this is where 'dating advice' could be useful in theory (in fact some of it was for me). The way a lot of it's presented is utter bullshit, though.

>I dont think user is blaming mom

I'm pretty sue he is, he explicitly blamed single moms for creating lonely men.

>It does happen

Sure, it also doesn't happen. I knoew loads of guys who had single moms and they have absolutely no problem with their social lives.

I think that being autistic and spending 16 hours a day on Jow Forums probably had a bigger impact on the people who are now still posting on Jow Forums and looking for things to blame for them being single virgins.

>Now you're telling me that you're just totally getting dates all the time
Where did I say that?

This is pretty much it. Women were desperate for a man before, because they could not financially support themselves. But now they can, so why would they pick an average looking guy, when they can pick a hot one?

They can see a greater amount of attractive looking men in their area, so that also allows the, to be pickier.

I honestly don't understand why so many anons on here can't understand that.

Yeah but did you ask those guys what their childhood was like? Did they go out and have friends, were they abused at some point? Were they the kind of kids that were fairly confident? There are mothers out there that understand the kinds of things kids need to have normal lives single or not.

The last thing you want to hear is dating advice from your father. Whatever well-meaning advice they do have to give is lost in translation because there's a 20-30 year gap in culture. What does someone who grew up in the 80s or 70s know about internet dating or what girls are into these days? He's gonna tell you to go to the local roller-disco and bowling alley or perhaps the local church.

They're also not in any position to explain women either because like most older generations they just married whoever their first or second gf/bf was.

>You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me.

Can you or can't you get a date?

Well they weren't raised on Jow Forums, which is why they turned out fine regardless of their living situation.

Women have learned that they don't NEED a man to live a happy life anymore. They don't need to get married anymore. Thus, if a man wants to keep and maintain his woman, he needs to step up his game and be worthy of her time and attention longer than just through the dating phase.

Religion played a major roll in the traditional marriage mentality, but we as a collective society have also realized that religion is bullshit and not needed either.

Yeah, I agree with you user. I didn't figure out how to talk to girls until I was around 19. I'm 6'2, I've had women call me handsome to my face nearly my entire life, I dress well, but my inability to communicate with women and express my interest in them hindered my dating life for a long time.

And I had no shortage of male role-models in my life who were doing well with women, my cousin has literally slept with hundreds of girls and he gave me good advice, but I couldn't process it or understand how to apply it.

Just recently at my family Christmas, me and that same cousin were talking to a far younger family member about how to talk to girls, and I realized, there is nothing you can really say to a young boy that will teach them how to talk to girls. It's just something they have to figure out on their own.

I think male role-models may provide extra encouragement/confidence, but no ones advice really got me to where I am today

Also to add to this, it's in a mother's nature to want to protect her children and some can be overprotective in the wrong ways. If they were abused, they may abuse their children. Fathers on the other hand want their kids and more specifically their sons to be strong, if the father can support his family he will no doubt pass down this knowledge to his sons.

The question is what happens when parents and more so parents from back in the days didn't follow these guidelines. What kind of people did their offspring turn into. Keep in mind Im not adding other family members in the mix because it's often the case parents dontblet them get toobinvolved with their children and if this were to happen it complicates things further.

>men are lonely because they are on Jow Forums
Kek.

>And I had no shortage of male role-models in my life who were doing well with women, my cousin has literally slept with hundreds of girls and he gave me good advice, but I couldn't process it or understand how to apply it.
>Just recently at my family Christmas, me and that same cousin were talking to a far younger family member about how to talk to girls, and I realized, there is nothing you can really say to a young boy that will teach them how to talk to girls. It's just something they have to figure out on their own.

exactly this. You can sort of give them a frame of reference and tips and tricks and advice but ultimately they've got their own way doing things and looking at the world and they need to figure it out on their own.

What modern post-2010s Jow Forums and the internet did was spread the idea around of "no, you don't have to try and figure it out on your own there's no point in even trying because look at this jpeg of a line graph that is dubiously sourced or taken out of context and used to jump to wild conclusions. it's society's fault that you can't get a date, and it's also your mom's fault, and your genetics, and the universe at large"

and of course it's not just a male thing, women also had their own thing going with tumblr and whatever else where they were also like "I'm fat as shit and hairy and ugly and it's men's fault that I can't get a date"

but luckily it's just a vocal minority.

Guys I know werent either and yet they're a mess with zero self esteem. From what I can see most had dysfunctional families. A couple told me things I couldnt believe.

There is no game you literally just have to be yourself but being yourself is the hardest thing possible to do. First you have to learn to love yourself which involves overcoming your deepest anxieties.

>Kek.

You're proving my point.

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I feel ashamed that I am a part of the same species as that

Talking to women is a skill you learn and understand with experience but what you have to understand is the most crucial part is derived from a man's confidence. I'm saying there's a reason a lot if them have zero confidence and I gave my point of view.

Yeah obviously that can happen - but even if a kid has loving well-meaning parents he's not going to come out okay if he spends all free his time watching gore videos and lurking Women Hate Thread and other "red pill" shit on Jow Forums during his formative years as a 10 year old kid or whatever who is now in his 20s.

No one who spent their formative years on this website is okay. You want proof? Look at the fucking state of the site today.

Oh yeah Im not arguing against that, you shouldnt be shaping your views on the world with anything but experiences. You read stuff here if you can relate but you shouldnt shape yourself from these posts alone.

Its not as much that there was no game before but the standards for men were much much lower.

Jesus Christ, lurk moar newfag.

>Rich, powerful, and/or attractive men have always gotten pussy and always will. More importantly, though, is that there is a capitalist market today

which one is it, faggot?

any more?

>Girls that are 2/10 will still get 100's of messages
when will this myth end

Once incels are rounded up and sent to camps.

I'm autistic, if I "be myself" I will repulse every single woman in a 6 mile radius. That's just how it is. I'm a fucking manchild, but I love being a manchild, and I only pretend to be adult in order to have money to fund my childish hobbies. The only thing that saves me in this world is the fact that everyone else seems to have fallen to my level.

I think back then people were more desperate to marry at a young age so that's why it was easier to get a relationship. Now people prefer to experiment and "have fun". I guess standards are also higher now. And maybe anxiety and being socially retarded is more common now because of some chemichal in the air or phone waves or whatever (like lead paint made people stupid decades ago) but this is just my wild guess.

But it's not a myth. I mean sure, 2/10 girls won't but 5/10 girls will. And for a guy, being 5/10 is bad, for a girl it's okay.
Anyone denying the fact that it's easier for a woman to receive validation, attention and sex, than it is for a man, is delusional.

I'm perfectly fine with the current society desu. And there are no consequences to 'millions of lonely men' in a society which has legalized prostitution (sorry Americans). Not having a GF hardly has any impact on a man's ability to work, and casual sex is pretty much a guarantee that new generations will be created.

Definitely smaller scale. At least the only case of dual-mating with purpose (married young, got knocked up 4 times by other dude and let husband raise it) I know of was done by a IMO very plain sociopath. But some people are easier to manipulate than others.

Not a myth. That said "messages" doesn't mean "messages from chads who are looking for a wife".

>newfag.

If you say "kek", you're the newfag.

Your shitty victim attitude is why women don't like you. Who wants to date someone who, in their own head, has already perpetually lost?

Yeah, no shit.
"Being sub-par in all things is a recipe for inceldom"...
It's also a recipe for a pathetic, miserable life. Go improve yourself, faggot.

the sexual revolution happened and plain women are free to pursue the 1% men now

in what fuckin world do you exist where being 2/10 or 5/10 for a girl is somehow okay when they live in the age of social media and instagram stars and make-up vloggers millionaires on youtube where all women are expected to be 10/10s.