I split up with my wife, whose BDSM fantasies I was incapable of fulfilling after 15 years, which drove her to another man.

After that, I just wanted a nurturing sexual relationship.

I was kind of seeing three women at once, but every time I displayed affection, they shied away.

Yet, with each of them, there were moments unspoken where they seemed to want me, but my self-doubt required explicit consent, and that was the one thing they were unwilling to give.

All of them have given up on me and found other men.

I don't know what I am. An Incel? A cuck? A fag who likes women?

People keep talking about gender-identities. I feel like a teenage girl who has a forty-year-old man's body, but I'm also completely cis-het.

There's nowhere for me here, is there?

I fall asleep alone and find peace in dream, and I hope to die in my sleep.

I guess this is a feelz thread for people who don't belong anywhere.

If your freak flag looks like the one that inspired Francis Scott Key, though... then I know how you feel.

We only know that we can't be sure it won't get better, and if that's all we have, well, it's better than nothing.

I didn't kill myself tonight because I don't know why I'm here, and I have to believe that there are more people out there who will wake up tomorrow for the same reason.

All responses are welcome, and any Jow Forums is appreciated.

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>split up with my wife, whose BDSM fantasies I was incapable of fulfilling after 15 years
what do these fantasies entail?

I’m with you though OP. I feel like I’m not aggressive and dominant enough by nature.

And so we cross the bridge of, "Are these indeed behaviors associated with immaturity and an inability to make peace with one's own life such as it is?" And in my opinion you're walking down the yes-path, because holy shit are you crossing serious bridges.

I recently read a story about a girl who got out of an abusive relationship around these parts and the big thing is that a lot of these people-- shitty partners, that is-- are into taking control from people which is what BDSM largely is. If you're going to find something nurturing, it's time to admit that the whole BDSM thing was a product of youth well-spent, but spent no less. You need to move past it as any part of your identity but a chapter in your past. Maybe bring it out to play if it comes up organically, but otherwise leave it tucked neatly away. It sounds like you've got that part pretty nailed.

Meanwhile, drop the victim attitude. Victims are never appealing, not to anybody, not in any way. It's never a good angle to take and it's never going to take you anywhere constructive. Being a victim simply serves to prove you can't make even the fighting effort, it doesn't venerate you as some stricken martyr.

Lastly, you need to get out there and meet people on pretenses that aren't sexual or involved with fetishes. Join a new D&D group, find a local club for something, join up for classes of something. Expose yourself to new ground and be open to people and be open to yourself in general. Make friends, and focus on being able to sustain a life of your own, on your own. Maybe then go looking for this nurturing relationship you want-- when you have just as much nurturing to give back.
Or, y'know, be miserable. That's kind of the alternative.

>what do these fantasies entail?

She wanted to be restrained and forcibly face-fucked, but I was only able to come close to that once, and I just wasn't cold and hard enough.

She got bed-restraints, and I tried. But pain and pleasure are simply in two separate categories for me, and although she didn't choose to have to conflate them, I couldn't cross the bridge to where it made sense to me.

I didn't mind her having a dom, but it wasn't enough for her, and I realized that deep down, she believed that masculinity and violence were inseparable - or, at least, that she required someone to own her in ways I was incapable of.

I'm not sure if there's ultimately a difference, though.

She knew she was forcing me into passive resistance, and at some point I recognized that I'd lost myself in the attempt to be what she wanted.

When I found myself again, I was utterly alone, though.

I guess sometimes it just be like that.

Well , you do seem fine attracting women. But obviously you can't make them stay. Why do you think is that the case? You might be getting way to needy for love and affection and probably way too fast. That would be a big turn off for women. I would suggest you take a time off from relationships and first learn to love and respect yourself. How can anyone respect you, when you don't do it yourself user. Don't worry. You'll be fine.

God, you're sickly vanilla.

It's interesting that you frame BDSM as a product of youth and immaturity.

She taught me about it well enough to know that consenting relationships at any age, so long as one has enough self-awareness to own their body, are only ever a question of trust.

I knew her too well to be able to trust her to not let me go too far in administering punishment, and thus be an instrument of her self-abuse.

I suspect this is what prevented me from actualizing my sexual relationships with any potential subsequent partners, because it seemed to be my authentic desire that drove them away.

Eventually, I assume, I'll get bored of the silence and venture out, but I'm not sure how not to feel desire toward others, and that means playing a game of "what can I do for you," which for me means giving my complete emotional investment until they realize that's all I have to give, and at which point I become irrelevant.

That sounds like victim-talk, though, doesn't it?

I'll try to walk tall, though - your feedback is encouraging, and I thank you for it.

Why is love and affection a turn-off for women, do you suppose?

How do you construct femininity and masculinity?

Is the concept of nurturing, loving, affectionate masculine sex something that does not exist anywhere?

It might not. I did mention that I hoped to die in my sleep every night. I might just be sitting at a bus-stop whose carriage never arrives.

I'm definitely taking time off from relationships, though, and trying to learn to love and respect myself.

It's pretty hard to do when your positive feedback is mostly imaginary, though.

I'm great at overthinking the whole sexual psychodrama as well. Like my gf loves it when I'm sexually dominant because she likes surrendering control, she likes it when she is powerless, she likes it when I'm apparently so turned on and desirous of her that I'm insatiable and aggressive. I guess these things validate her. On the other hand I do these things because of her reaction. I rarely choose freely to do these things. How can she be surrendering control when ultimately she is getting exactly what she wants from the situation through manipulating me into behaving a certain way through my desire to please her? On a basic level I'll slap her ass and she'll be "no that hurts too much" so I'll slap it a little softer. If she truly was submissive then I'd slap it raw if I wanted and she'd be able to do nothing to stop it. I understand it is complex, but like with your wife. True submission would have been to reject her needs in favour of yours because you are in control. I end up feeling misogynistic, but it often further cements the idea that women are filthy casuals who conflate 'BDSM' with 'sex I want with a guy who is psychic'. I don't really make the effort any more because I'm always aware of it, in the community they call it topping from the bottom and it is considered being a bad submissive. I'm not saying that people aren't entitled to preferences and sex shouldn't be enjoyable and contain elements that are enjoyable, but rolling it up into a BDSM scenario where they are submissive and another is dominant though the dominant party does everything you want while you manipulate what they get in return is ... meh.

Yeah. I know. It's annoying. I've tried to not be, but I can't quite figure it out.

I'm always impressed by those who do, though, so if you've found a way to be abusively sexual in a fulfilling way, then like good jorb mang.

Also OP I'm guessing you are pushing 40? I'm 37. As I've gotten older my tolerance for women has began to drop through the floor. I say women, but really I mean people. Maybe it is declining testosterone, declining sexual interest, whatever, but really I feel like I've never been more in control of my mental toolbox. I know who I am. I know what I can do. I know what I need to do to get the outcomes I desire. Others who seem caught up in drama, manipulation, dishonesty, to themselves or others aren't really people who I give my time to. It comes with its own drawbacks, I can be quite antisocial and I see myself changing completely in social situations, but I'm happier and better adjusted. Previously I did everything to be the life of the party, popular, quite forceful and aggressive. These days I'm far calmer, more controlled, a better listener, less competitive and judgemental.

Having a women in my life is an active choice. It isn't something I need. It comes on my terms. I don't really feel there is nobody for me, that the world is broken, that everything is denied to me. I think that you are grieving for the loss of your marriage. It sounds fucking rough. You probably felt that throwing yourself back out there was for the best and it probably was, but you learnt some stuff, you learnt what you actually want and now you've got a great thing which you can build upon to be happier.

When I got divorced I fucked around like a mad man. Denied for so long I was like a kid in a candy shop. After about 18 months of complete hedonistic distraction I started to feel alienated and gross and that is when what I'd lost hit home hard. I missed my wife and I missed our life together. It wasn't coming back and the future was what I made it and what I was currently doing wasn't what I wanted it to look like.

Loving and caring men do exist. I would say I'm one of them myself. But acting that intense on a women you are just starting to hit it off is weird and needy.
Why are you claiming that the feedback is imaginary?

>How can she be surrendering control when ultimately she is getting exactly what she wants from the situation through manipulating me into behaving a certain way through my desire to please her?

The lie is that submission means weakness. What subs know that doms don't is that they ultimately have all the control, because it's their willing participation that allows for the game in the first place.

>If she truly was submissive

She is not. Almost nobody is. She is physically submissive to the point where she decides that her identity exists, and that is the boundary she is looking for. Where her body ends and her identity begins are two questions, each answered separately, and in the echoes of the ass-slaps you provide, she hears the question broadcast back.

>True submission would have been to reject her needs in favour of yours because you are in control.

Yes, but then she becomes your thrall, and her identity is lost. When submission becomes more than physical, it is spiritual slavery.

Seek no slaves, and be not one to any other.

That's really all you can do.

I'm 41.

>When I got divorced I fucked around like a mad man. Denied for so long I was like a kid in a candy shop. After about 18 months of complete hedonistic distraction

Yeah, that's sort of what I was going for, and I wound up banging my head against a wall. If it weren't for cam-models, I'd probably have been killed for failing to pay my tab to some local pimp.

You're talking some kind of privilege I don't have, so I'm having a little trouble following you.

But keep on preaching that "women are part of my life because I choose them to be." You're clearly some alpha-er male than me, so keep on with your bad self. You go, gurl.

Fair. It is indicative of my ultimate thinking. Surrendering control doesn't mean surrendering all control, just as much as you want to. Neither person is dominant or submissive, we just play roles in that moment. For me the distinction between slave and thrall is a thrall is often mindless. Maybe reflects my prejudice about BDSM? I am often quick to assume people haven't thought it through that much, but maybe they think it through more than me.

For me in my situation I often feel so far removed from the situation during complex sex that it is like suffering from depersonalisation. Like I'm doing a thing, why? Do I enjoy this? Why do I enjoy this? Should I be this aware? Should I be thinking right now? Why am I thinking right now? For me the best sex is where I can switch off the internal monologue and feel for a moment closer to an instinctive animal without all the thinking and rationalisation.

>But acting that intense

I like how this shows that the implication that men can be loving and caring is "intense" and somehow a transgressive act.

So, I'm supposed to be cold and heartless until what point?

I'm really curious, because I obviously don't know.

Talking about privilege. Bruh I'm triggered. I'm not claiming to be an alpha male. I'm telling you this in the context of ... self inflicted and external pressures made me behave a certain way for a time following my divorce? This was a hedonistic distraction? ... eventually I realised that I had to grieve for the end of my relationship and I missed the things I had lost? ... I had to formulate a plan (healthy mindset and lifestyle) to reach the things that I now knew mattered to me.

At some points in that I felt broken and like the world didn't contain a place for me. I wasn't broken, it just felt like that. The world didn't contain a place for me because I was living dishonestly. What I was doing didn't align with my actual desires. I was moving further from my goals.

My point is you seem to have found what is important to you. Don't forget to grieve for what you've lost and move on with positivity to get what you now know is important to you.

Alpha male? I put myself in so many strange and fucked up situations for sex. It is just funny, but it was pretty disgusting for a time. Pretty much banging anybody who wanted banging for a time. That'll show .... I don't know.

I've found that you are supposed to have these feelings for a practical purpose. Nobody cares about how you feel. They care about how they experience your feelings. If you are a closed book then showing vulnerability makes certain people feel special. If they feel they are fixing you a little then they feel validated. If you miss them then they feel important in direct relation to your perceived value. Ideas and feelings are pretty worthless to the world without praxis.

So if your partner is so emotional people are going to ask how you feel about that? It must be tiring? draining? exciting? intense? meaningful? stressful? difficult? Your emotions are fuck all in the face of the opinions of others.

What does it mean to be a man? From my perspective it means never really getting what you want while those around you get what they want and then you die. You've got to be ok with that because you are the man. Occasionally you can open up about how you feel, but you get that once or twice a year, anything more and you'll be considered dangerously unstable and a candidate for rejection. Other men will understand you. You'll share moments with them. But the world of comfortable women with fat sticky smiling babies will never understand.

When I say never getting what you want this is no bad thing. Men are pretty awful. When she asks what you really want you can never answer because it is usually something like between 3 and 5 petite girls in their 20's all with an insatiable desire for my semen, overwhelming me and holding me down until I'm sucked and fucked so dry I think I'm going to die. Or glorious combat, to feel hot blood in and on my body, to fight and die alongside a group of brothers for a noble purpose. She is always 'I thought you wanted better bedroom furniture?'

>I put myself in so many strange and fucked up situations for sex. It is just funny, but it was pretty disgusting for a time

No, I get that. But when you try to do that and still fail, you hit a lonely point.

I honestly tried to have empty sexual relationships, and failed in ways that I didn't even realize until long after the fact.

I'm trying to find that place where I can have meaningless sex, and it's just an endless game of manipulation.

So I'm glad you worked out your shit, but I have no "actual desires" at this point other than just hoping that what I'm doing is best for everyone.

Maybe someday I'll understand.

>Or glorious combat, to feel hot blood in and on my body, to fight and die alongside a group of brothers for a noble purpose

I was with you up until this point, user.

You are a poet nonetheless, though.

"Fat sticky smiling babies" is a line for the ages, after all.

But I'm a lover, not a fighter.

Dude you had a 15 year relationship. Everybody is going to be like punching you on the arm playfully ... well lad I bet you are excited to finally play the field hey HEY! Phwooar, if only I wasn't happily married for 30 codependent years I'd totally not be terrified and out of my element banging every beaten up old pussy in town that I'm sure exists outside of my social circle because I've red blood, zero emotional attachment and a rock hard dick!

You had a 15 year relationship. Since when does that equate to 'seeks meaningless sexual encounters'. My point is you clearly don't enjoy those. Great. So look for meaningful sexual encounters. Or accept that sex is no longer that high on your list of priorities and look for relationships which aren't sexual. Love and companionship aren't exclusive to a monogamous couple living together.

I stopped with the random sex because I wasn't enjoying it. I felt that I was supposed to, that I was proving a point or something. But I had to realise and then accept that I could take or leave sex without the connection. I liked the chase, but the chase was basically travel, random situations, reckless behaviour, spending money, meeting new people. All of these things could be satisfied without sex as long as I could come up with a more honest motivation for them.

Idk. You say there is nowhere for you. I guess there is nowhere for the younger you who had something, potential, a drive, desire to do a thing. You did that for a time and it is no longer. Now there is only a space for the older you with a different potential and different drives and desires. For me I feel much more in control of my behaviours and far more honest now I'm older. The sadness is perspective, you mourn for what is lost, but embrace what is now available.

>I stopped with the random sex because I wasn't enjoying it

I've heard the rumors. I've read the posters. I've received all the brochures, and I've watched the after-school specials.

My question is when the fuck I'm allowed to make such a decision for myself?

Yeah, I had a fifteen-year relationship with the person I lost my virginity to.

I don't have a lot of experience, and I'm not wealthy enough to afford sex workers, and I'm forty-one.

I'm basically dead on my feet, sexually speaking.

So pardon me if I fucked up and am trying to recapture some kind of youth that I was denied.

I'd like to figure out for myself if having "meaningless sex" is so terrible, though. I quite liked it as I recall.

All you "it's not worth it" folks sound like like privileged bougie swine to me, though, and that's simply not going to change until I know what the fuck you're talking about.

I don't.

your wife had read 50 shades of grey once too often.

forget that shit.
not every girl wants to be dominated and tied up bla bla bla whips and chains etc etc
all girls are really looking for is:
>>and good dicking

at the moment your just lost and out of practice on meeting new people...

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>your wife had read 50 shades of grey once too often

Naw, we both thought that was horribly written.

I probably just need to meet new people.

BDSM seems like such an effort on a man's part. You're supposed to be the "dominant" one yet expected to do this, do that, tie them up in special ways, flog or whip them for an hour. Otherwise you're not dominant enough. Not even mentioning those types that require you to keep your girl on a diet, do chores, tell them explicitly what you want them to do, reward them, like god damn. How do you have time for anything else.

Honestly, anyone who thinks bdsm is a healthy thing to do is fucked up.

I really want to spit in the face of all these Male divorcee cuckolds.

Not really. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it fucked up.

women want a provider. if you are a good at providing you shouldn't "need" anyone. so male displays of affection are received better by following the "show, don't tell" principle.

That sounds like a recipe for bottling up your affection as a man. Most people think this way, so you won't find a lot of people who'll disagree with you, but I can assure you that it leads to poor communication, mixed messages, and isolation.

There's a market for that.

yeah it's his fault he can't get turned on by tying down and forcibly face fucking his wife. Terrible.

Not that I don't appreciate your advice. I'm sure most people would write me off as another Peter Pan complex, and they're probably right.

I don't believe that sexual encounters which don't include monogamy have to be reckless or random, though, and it seems like everyone is participating in a contrived game to turn sex into some competition among men to peacock around and win a mate, and among women to strut about seeking the most popular companion, and it's just really sad and gross.

It makes me feel sad and gross, too.

I'm glad you have reconciled your past, however, and are at peace.

To be fair, studies have shown trends toward those with the ability to bear children having a higher pain tolerance than those who can't, whether or not they ever do.

And I know a lot of women in the BDSM scene, and they're all tougher than me.

Basically, it seems like guys who show sexual interest as a function of affection are called "creeps," but guys who show sexual interest as a function of dominance are rewarded.

I know there are women who seek to be dominated, and obviously hetero sex physically involves penetration, usually, and there is an element of dominance simply within the act itself in most sexual positions.

I just don't see the need to dress it up any more than that. You can be affectionately dominant without having to restrain your partner, and you can express love, affection, and support in a sexual way without having to be married to someone.

Maybe there's a community out there for me... but I sure don't know the acronym.

Oh, wait - yeah, I do. FML

>doesn't like where he is
>doesn't know where else to go
>doesn't feel like people understand him
>doesn't know who might
>doesn't think he's in the right place