Charismatic and Convincing

How to I become charismatic and convincing? I'm not talking about being a fictional alpha Chad who can talk to girlz at the club, im talking more at the discussion, debate & influencing level.

I have strong opinions and thoughts on many things in life. I have trouble voicing them in conversation with just about anyone, and if I get too passionate about something, I come across as abrasive and uncompromising. My tendency is to be a sort of "bulldozer" and tell someone they're full of shit, my way is the right way etc.

I've been told to be more subtle, to be more diplomatic when speaking about any topic, and people will be more likely to listen.

However I've been in situations where I'll try and sell an idea in my typical abrasive way, and it will get shut down. Someone else will come along with that EXACT SAME IDEA and THAT EXACT SAME ABRASIVENESS and all of a sudden people get inspired, drawn into their world, and actually fucking listen to them.

This is probably my biggest insecurity and weakness. Is it a sign of low EQ, or am I really someone who's not worth listening to?

Perhaps my biggest fantasy is to influence someone so much they would completely rewrite their beliefs and values to what I preach. If some dude in the Taliban can convince a young boy to blow himself up, it shouldn't be hard to convince someone of somerhing waaaay less severe, no?

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You have to be genuinely convincing without people realizing that you’re purposefully trying to convonce them of something. People are prideful, generally they don’t like being swayed...but if you can make them believe that they reached your conclusions by themselves...

Also, practice practice practice. This is a skill like any other and it WILL improve over time, try to learn from your failures, even if it seems like that other guy did EXACTLY the same thing, something was different. Something about your method could be improved. Take note of what people respond to, and how you respond to a crowd. If you can get s recording of yourself speaking that can help a lot.

>but if you can make them believe that they reached your conclusions by themselves.

This is what I want

Then work on that. Instead of forcing something down their throat, ask them deficikt questions. When you sense that they don’t have a good answer, when you sense the conflict within them, feed on that. Feed on their insecurity in a way that does not make them feel insecure. A little flattery peppered in here at this point may be helpful, something like “I see you’re smart enough to realize that...” You don’t want to make people feel belittled, you want to make them feel like uncovering this knowledge that you’re guving them is empowering...and they will attribute that sense of empowerment to you.


Sorry for phonepost

>thinks people will ever allow themselves to be convinced of something in person
You're kinda retarded. Pride and ego will never let them be swayed during a debate.

>Pride and ego will never let them be swayed during a debate.

Then how do politicians, advertisers and salesmen do their job?


Leaders are not made, they are born.

Complete bullshit. Everyone has natural talents, yes, but literally every single politician you’ve ever seen make a speech has spent decades practicing and refining their craft.

Well, they also didn't have to ask on a website full of NEETs and social outcasts.
Go figure.

No but they used other resources. The point I was making, that you’re now very pathetically trying to deflect, is that debate and oration are not mystical god given talents that can’t be learned through trial and error, they can be mastered cover time like literally any other skill.

That's like saying anyone could be Mozart if they tried hard enough.
Sure, you could maybe try to learn some composing and if you struggle real hard, you might get decent at it, but you will never be great at it.
Genghis Khan didn't have to read books and ask people on how to lead, he just was a natural born leader.

Statements like
>The point I was making, that you’re now very pathetically trying to deflect
Make me think that you are just a nasty, un-diplomatic person with a temper that is unfit for a leader.
Some people are born with charisma, others are not. You can learn to be diplomatic (which you will struggle with from the looks of it) but you can't learn charisma.
Deal with it, or get angry and insult me, doesn't change the fact.

You invited the nasty undiplomatic response with your underhanded insult of indirectly calling me a neet and social outcast, worded in such a way as to leave you an out to deny insulting me if called out on it, pretty amateur stuff. But really the thread isn’t about me, or you, it’s about OP and how he CAN (along with anyone else) become diplomatic and charismatic if he puts in the work. You still haven’t presented any coherent argument to refute that.

Now lets add some insecurity to the mix, some accusations and trying to belittle me.
Really stellar diplomatic skills.
Work on being a decent person before trying to lead anyone.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY will listen to a person such as you are presenting yourself to be right now.
And I will reiterate, you can learn being diplomatic, even though some people are just better at it than others, namely ones that don't have a massive ego getting in their way, but you can't learn charisma, just as you can't learn to have nice hair. That you are just born with.
And it's painfully clear that you are OP.

I’m not OP. And you still haven’t backed up your point one single time lol. Repeating something doesn’t make it true. “You can’t learn charisma” except that the vast majority of public speakers will outright tell you that you’re wrong. Also, who told you being a decent person was a prerequisite for being a leader? You mean to tell me that the majority of leaders in the world are good people? Really?

Also I’d like to point out that I’m not interested in convincing you or being convinced by you, so I don’t really care about being diplomatic right now. Im simply informing OP that you can in fact, demonstrably, objectively, learn to be more convincing and persuasive.

Please provide me with a coherent argument as to why the grass is green?
It's just a fact.
>You mean to tell me that the majority of leaders in the world are good people?
They make people think they are at the very least.
A GOOD leader is a good person in any case.
Someone rude, abrasive, insecure, accusatory, someone who is looking to put people down is not someone who people look up to.

Oh, so you are trying to demonstrate to OP how NOT to act?
Good job then.

believe your own shit. you might become a pathological liar but thats a small price to pay

I mean...yeah, my point is self evident. Person bad at speaking. Person practice speaking. Person now better at speaking. Woah. Crazy. You want to argue against that be my guest but you’re wrong.

Yeah man that's not me.

That's all me.

Learn rhetoric.
Some pointers:
>be logical and truthful only when it is convincing
>ask your enemies loaded questions
>intentionally use fallacious arguments if you think your audience will buy it
>the simplest explanations are the best
>flatter your audience, make them feel superior to your enemy's audience