tl;dr Told GF I'd want a pre-nup if we got married, led to a huge argument
>both come from very wealthy families, though hers are "old money" >she's not necessarily bad with money, but spends it far too easily >been dating for 5 years, talked about marriage but want to wait until we've settled down properly and decided where we want to live >she relies on her trust fund whereas I have my own start-up that just got funding, will inherit money but making my own way >both go to a book club and the latest book led to a discussion we carried on at home >I said "If we get married wouldn't it be best to have a pre-nup to protect us both?" >leads to huge argument because I said if, but she says "If you want a pre-nup it means you're betting on the marriage failing >more and more arguing, I say "I don't want my house to burn down, but I still get home insurance" as an argument >tells me that it's different and that if I can't see the difference I shouldn't be getting married >stormed out and went to her parents, hasn't answered my calls in 3 days and her mother told me to give her some time
Am I in the wrong here? I love her dearly and truthfully she has a lot more to be worried about as her parents are stinking rich and although she has 2 brothers split between them is a massive amount. Plus I don't think inheritances even count for divorces and it's not like my start-up is going to make me a billionaire. I just like being protected.
Pre-nups won't always save you. Just don't get married.
We’ve had this exact same thread before. You’re not in the wrong, OP. But you need to make your intentions clear to her.
>If you want a pre-nup it means you're betting on the marriage failing This is not true and it's manipulation.
The reason you want a prenup is because you'e not 100% that the marriage will work, not because you're betting on failure.
So call her out on her hypocrisy, ask her if she thinks there's a 100% chance your marriage will work. If not, then signing a prenup should be smooth from there.
If she continues to nip at you, then you can start reasonably saying things like "do you love me or my money?". Obviously girls love your money, so if she says the latter, that's perfectly fine. But it's just something you should get out in the open before you marry.
Disclaimer: I prefer gold-digging women than women who "love me for me" whatever that means and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with marrying for money.
Never marry without a prenup. Never marry a girl that gets mad when asked to sign a prenup.
On a rational level you are right. On an emotional one wrong.
And guess what, women are mostly emotional.
>I prefer gold-digging women I have never seen you give decent advice that wasn't grounded in pseudo-science and opinion. How did you even make your money?
I feel ya OP. I think you're in the right. My long-term gf and I talked about marriage and I said I want a pre-nup. Funny thing is, I'm the really poor one and her parents are probably worth hundreds of millions (of course I have no exact figure because, to be honest, I don't care about money all that much).
I just want to make sure that if we have kids and then divorce, the family isn't absolutely ripped apart like my childhood was when my mom divorced twice in my early years.
Stand your ground OP.
a pre-nup might be the dumbest thing in legal history. Is it really THAT HARD to say "this is my girlfriend"?
I have a 2 year old with my GF and we live together. Still never getting married.
A marriage: > I trust you 100%
A prenup: > I don't trust you 100%
the cognitive dissonance is off the charts
Ironically, if they trust you 100%, they shouldn't care about a prenup.
>A marriage: >> I trust you 100% This is not true. A marriage just means you want to get married.
The vast majority of these threads can only be solved with an opinion. There's nothing wrong with talking about your opinions here.
I assume that's your subtle way of telling me you don't like my opinions? Well I don't like yours either! *sticks tongue out*
So then why do you want to get married? What advantage or feeling does it give you?
I think people just want to say "wife and husband" because it sounds more official. All the anguish and heartbreak and lost money so people can say, "this is my wife" "this is my husband"
Kill yourself, dumb tripfag
>So then why do you want to get married? kids
To start a family.
Other people's reasons may differ. But when I care only about having children and raising them as best possible, then whether or not my wife is a gold digger means very little to me (personally).
Ask her to explain the difference. If she can't give one using reason and logic, not emotion, point this out.
You already have a common law marriage.
I have a kid with my GF and am not married.
What's the issue?
Actually I don't. Google it.
For a common law marriage to be enforced....
1) It needs to be a common law state 2) the 2 people need a shared bank account and shared bills 3) they need to have some agreement in place that they are "married" without actually having gone to court
And EVEN THEN it's a weak legal precedent.
It's like men in the west have had this red pill in front of them for decades and did not even realize it.
If you're in a situation where the woman is like "marry me or it's over". The break up and find a new woman to fuck.
Gosh guys. Come on.
I see it more as...
Prenup: >Just so we're clear, at the end of the day I see things in terms of 'mine' and 'yours'. I'm on-board with sharing and partnering, but I don't really believe there can be a true "ours", both in terms of physical possessions or life as a whole (i.e. truly thinking fundamentally in terms of "we").
And while I TOTALLY agree with this from a purely logical standpoint, I do believe you shouldn't be getting married if you think like this. Fact is, marriage is kind of illogical. It's about two people trying to create something more than the sum of its parts much to their own immediate personal inconvenience, but for a big picture greater good.
If you can't appreciate that, you're not in a place for it yet.
I'm considering that route, too. No issue IMO
Really everything is the same as being married, only if the absolute worst happens I won't be assraped in court. I'll just have to pay child support. Which I could handle, given my income.
Nice digits. Problem with no prenup is 25 years ago you'd have an easy sell... But right now these guys can easily Google a million divorces gone absolutely, abhorrently wrong. And people don't USUALLY marry people they don't like, it's just that human change is hard to forecast for some people. A pre-nup is all a man has before admitting that any institution of marriage is just selling half his shit to a woman who'll get bored of him. It's every man's fear and it's probably why the pre-nup exists.
I appreciate your romance of marriage but people have to admit that a neutral, mutually beneficial arrangement is not meant to help situations you CAN control-- it's to safeguard against the ones you CAN'T.
But then, I don't expect that kind of realism and perspective from people who still have the Disney marriage in their heads. I'm usually talking to someone who thinks putting down the house pet is a tragedy.
>if you get car insurance you are betting on crashing Yeah dump this hoe.
Dont marry her then.
Why is this so complicated?
Not him but probably trying to marry into old money family. Some stats I read a while ago indicated that nowadays most people who reach the top 1% at one point in their lives are basically back in the shitter just some years later, and another study showed that the wealthiest families since medieval times are still the wealthiest families today.
Literally, the only way to secure wealth is to join one of them.
This kind of logic will never appeal to a woman who chooses to be offended by it. She’s emotionally unstable and I wouldn’t marry her in the first place.
>joint account >joint assets >in case of splitting up, property goes to the kids >in case of no kids, liquidate assets and split cash
Good riddance, OP. The divorce courts might still rule in her favour. Don't let her pressure you into a marriage that you're uncomfortable with.
Talk to her parents, they probably have a broker or investment guy. Have a sit down with him and the gf.
The subject being, how do we get our finances in order before we get married. Let them advise. Because a prenup is going to protect her. If she is getting a trust fund payout and if it isn’t set up correctly you could demand alimony from her.
Sorry but having a kid out of wedlock is disgusting, low class and trashy. Kids born to unmarried parents face more psychological issues also, regardless of race, education and income.
>you're gross if you don't have a piece of paper Not him but you can be great parents without being married
Why are you getting married if you're worried about your marriage already?
Obviously you both have different values
You faggots are so easily baited its pathetic. This guy posts this same exact bait thread every. single. week.
The divorce rate is 55% and you want to point to stats saying that I'm in the wrong.
>Other people are happy! >That's WRONG! They can't be happy in ways I DON'T LIKE! >Clearly not being married is AWFUL AND WRONG!
My aunt's been commonlaw with my uncle for 28 years. Fuck the haters user, you do you, people like are usually just mad about their own failures or shortcomings and trying to drag others down.
>*sticks tongue out* Jesus Christ kill yourself
You can be a paragon of good conduct without laws, too. The people who can handle themselves aren't the ones you need laws for.
>very wealthy Buy a psychologist's soul you piece of shit.
No help. People in the top 20% or so especially if thoroughly through business don't deserve love when they can buy it. Try destroying your hand in a trade job and being unable to work for your family and coworkers or developing depression and lack of love or socializing from years of school to help humanity as a whole then come back to Jow Forums cunt.
Would you bet on a 55% chance for life? No? Then don't marry. >oh but 45% blah blah blah
Most people aren't dumb. That's a significant number and then there are people who have fake tax break marriages and think they have to stay together because their bible thumping morons. If OP is too stupid to find counseling with all that money and just relies on random anons to help him figure this kind of shit out, chances are the marriage won't work. The gf is right: if he so mu ch ad THINKS about pre-nuos its not worth it. If they're arguing about what is basically a money issue, its not worth it, especially since she's probably suspicious of him or wants to get married because she knows without pre-nups she, as the women, gets the advantage and really just wants to divorce him. People with money and power usually sacrifice their sympathy, especially if they didn't work for it and were just spoiled.
>45/55 % * 55/45 % Whatever.
She's not very understanding, huh?
Just keep saying and never say anything about marriage again. If she's not mature or empathetic enough to see where you're coming from now, then maybe just date for a little while until she comes around. You two have different ideas of how you want to spend your money and it's reasonable to want pre-nup.