Why is it that people (especially women) always tout “its immoral to judge someone based on how many people they slept with” or how it’s just “not right”
BUT
they are so quick to judge based on someone’s LACK of experience? Why? That seems very hypocritical
Because you're in an argument with them and said something particularly sharp. They're retaliating.
I don't know about the second but the first one is enlightened self-interest I reckon.
No that’s not what happened. I’ve had girls give me weird looks and comment when they find out I’ve only had 1 gf. I don’t ask about their sexual past, but they bring up the conversation on their own and ask me.
That doesn't happen in real life but only inside your tiny incel mind.
Yes it does
They judge on the reasons for the lack of experience, not the lack itself. Look at Tim Tebow as a prime example.
What about him?
I was on a date a few days ago, things were going well. Then the girl asked me about when my last relationship ended. I told her I’ve never had gf before and she immediately paused and just looked at me. Smirked and said “ha you’re not serious”. When I said yes she just kind of gave me this weird look and under her breath said “wow”. It was awkward from that point on. I’ve had similar experiences with at least 5 other girls over the past 7 months
See how in the story there was no mutual understanding of the reason why you've had no gf before?
Also don't ask me "what about him," for fuck's sake just Google his name and you can probably figure it out in about 10 seconds. He's a posterboy for getting zero critical judgment (and in fact deep sexual admiration) from women despite sexual inexperience because the reason is understood and respected.
It's because you are an angry virgin who calls every girl who has had sex with someone who is not you a whore.
Obviously a part is just hypocrisy, it hurts being judged while judging others is easy, look at this board and you see many men doing the same where they don't want to be judged for their virginity but do judge women for having sex.
If there's any argument to be made for it I guess it would be that virginity can be changed (and the person involved has influence over it, though not full control) where experiences can't be made undone. Which means if you think someone is a bad person for being a slut you have written them off forever while a virgin can change their ways.
it shouldn’t matter tho. Just like it shouldn’t matter how many guys those same girls fucked. I didn’t ask her how many guys she fucked and why she fucked so many guys
Society - or rather many local sub-societies - reach an unspoken consensus on what is "normal" or "typical" or "expected." This is very fluid, and can change over time or with a move (either geographical or demographic) to another sub-group.
So in each group there is an unspoken consensus that those of age X will probably have had this number of partners, those of age Y this number, and so on. And significant deviations, in either direction, are seen as not typical and therefore suspect.
It shouldn't matter, you're right. It does because there's a pretty common reflex among people: we ascribe the most positive intent to our choices while assuming the most negative intent to the choices of others. As a loose metaphor, imagine driving very slowly and carefully because you have a cake or delicate floral arrangement in the car. Everyone behind you on the road is going to just assume "user doesn't know how to drive." Likewise that might be your impulse when stuck behind a slow driver, despite having no idea about the contents of their car.
Unless you establish an understanding for the reasons behind a lack of experience, most people are going to reflexively fill in the blanks with negative presumptions. That's the judgment which is going on in the conversation you described.
So, I should just give them an explanation and then I should ask them about their partners and ask them for an explanation why they hooked up with so many guys?
You should give them an explanation if they ask and you choose to answer, yes. There's nothing to gain by shooting yourself in the foot if you've already decided to participate in that conversation.
If it matters to you, you can ask them about their romantic history and an explanation as well.
Sounds like you pretty much understand what I'm getting at. I still leave it to you whether you feel it's appropriate to even care about such things. I just don't want you getting judged unfairly by those women who do care. You deserve better than to have the worst assumptions held against you for no reason.
Or instead of being antagonistic you could just shrug when someone asks and say it's personal to you and you don't understand why it matters and see if they can respect that.
ok well I will try this. Although I feel like it will end badly. I’ve noticed girls can be very defensive when it comes to their history. I have female friends and I’ve heard them bitch about how they’ve been on dates and had guys ask them how many partners they’ve had.
That doesn’t work. They think I’m hiding something. I’ve tried that
If you care about your dates' sexual histories and the reason behind them, use the mechanism at your disposal and ask. It's entirely your right to accept the potential consequences of that (them getting defensive) in return for something you care about. And if you ever decide to reassess how much you care in the future, you can change course too. The most important thing to do is just communicate your reasons and ask about their reasons. Good luck.
I'm going to use this thread to ask my own question
>They think I’m hiding something.
What if you are? I don't want to have to tell this whole story about how my relationships with the opposite sex were ruined for years by childhood abuse, my mother's personal vendetta against men, and rape to someone I hardly know.
I do care about that a lot actually. But I am a fair person, so I figure that if I don’t judge them for their history they better not judge mine, although they do anyways
>That doesn’t work. They think I’m hiding something. I’ve tried that
I don't know man, this might be just me but I don't think it's a very normal question to ask. Maybe "did you never meet a girl you could see yourself with" or "have you ever been in love" or something but flat out "hey so why are you still a virgin"? Superweird. I was also a late bloomer, used to get questions about this and for whatever it's worth I've also had guys act caught off guard and turned off after learning I was a virgin/I had not been in a relationship. It depends on what they perceive as normal, if they haven't known a virgin in the last five years they're likely to see you as a freakshow.
Also of course the other user is very right to say this. But I feel that at least past twenty or something most people should be well-equipped to reach an impression of someone's emotional maturity and ideas about women and so on without flat out questioning them about their lack of experience.
One option you have is to find a way to get across that there is a set of negative past experiences which reasonable people would understand, but that you're not comfortable with sharing them in detail.
Another option is to omit any mention of your past at all and keep it at what the other user suggested: "it's personal to me."
The only overarching truth here is that people impulsively jump to the worst assumptions. The more you're willing to divulge facts to replace those assumptions, the better off you're likely to stand in their judgment. Unfortunately life is complicated and you're not in a position to spill everything at first; you have it harder than most people. That's a disadvantage you're just going to have to live with, to a greater or lesser extent depending on your choice of approach.
>hey so why are you still a virgin"?
That’s not what they ask. They ask “when did your last relationship end?”
Other user here.
Without turning too much of the focus away from OP and others with similar questions let me tell you this: my job is to train new managers at my company. I cannot tell you how much of a universal opportunity it is among these people to learn how to stop assuming and start pursuing an understanding. It's 95% of my working hours spent doing that, no lie. People are AWFUL at judging books by their covers, or really in any way short of being coached to read line by line.
Okay but then you can say "I've never dated anyone"/"I've never been in an official relationship" and they'd still need to probe for the conversation to not end there.
I do agree with that.
Yes and that’s what I say “I’ve never had a gf” then typically they say something like “wow” or “thats Strange” “that’s weird” then almost all of them have said “so you’ve only had hook ups?” which then means I have to respond with “no”. And then that’s when they realize I’m a Virgin and start to act weird and uncomfortable
How old are you, OP?
28
You're going to have to start lying. I probably would think twice dating a guy with no relationship experience at 28.
>lie
WowS sounds like a great idea and way to start a relationship
That's option 1. Option 2 is being up-front before the date even occurs, and be very prepared to be ghosted a lot. Someone with 0% relationship experience at your age is a red flag. It's a massive undertaking to date someone who is over a decade behind in emotional intelligence. Most bitches want to have kids in your age bracket; they want someone who knows what they're doing.
this is such bs. again it goes back to my OP. It seems like it’s ok for people to judge an inexperienced person all they want, but it’s so wrong to judge an overly experienced person.
So basically I’m fucked.
The unavoidable truth on both ends. How did you end up not having any relationship experience? I'm 21 and Im in the same boat been only doing hookups and like 3 friends back home. None here really. . .
i was really lost and depressed during my teenage years. I didn’t have a parent to really be a role model and teach me how to be a man. I was equally as lost in my early twenties. I went into the military which did help give me some structure. But I was still depressed. After my contract I had an alright paying job but I worked night shifts so I never talked to anyone and had no friends so I was really depressed from 22-25. When I turned 26 I decided to make a change and I started lifting and set my mind to accomplish some goals. Now that I’m 28, I’m pretty Jow Forums, I have a good job that ways well and I really enjoy it. Maybe this sounds arrogant but I don’t look like a virgin stereotype. Only 1 of my female friends knows I’m a Virgin and she even told me that.
the only problem with inexperienced guys ive had is that the sex is usually really.. bad. not always, but still
not to mention there is usually some sort of reason. not the inexperience itself, but that they have some other selection of traits that makes them off putting to have sex with to begin with
So that’s a good enough reason to judge them?
I love how I come back to this thread after a while and people are right back to the whole "assume the worst" shit.
First state reluctance about dating a guy with no experience and THEN ask how it happened.
See, OP? This is why I recommended being very forthcoming with the reasons before people assume there's something grossly wrong with you. This is how people are. People you have never even met in real life are already figuring that you should be avoided for...reasons they ask about as an afterthought?
The hypocrisy is what blows my mind. These people are so quick to judge me very harshly, but they get extremely defensive if anyone questions how promiscuous they were. What a fucking joke
To be fair I kind of understand the defensiveness though. Now that we're all seeing how people are, imagine what these people are thinking. "He's asking how promiscuous I've been. He's already assuming I'm a mentally warped slut." And that's a fair thing to think because most people would probably jump to that exact assumption. The walls go up because everyone is that used to being judged on assumptions. Crazy.
The same could be said when a girl instantly thinks “omg he’s a Virgin loser”
Absolutely, the gut reaction is to get defensive because it's virtually a guarantee that she'll jump to conclusions. Still I think that being armed with this awareness gives you a good plan of action. If the conversation is going to go in that direction then answer and follow up with reasons before her assumptions come into play. With any luck you'll set an example and she'll give you a chance to hear her out as well.
it just pisses me off because there is all of this talk and huge push to not judge women for their promiscuity. But NOBODY defends virgins or guys with little experience. EVER
the world revolves around pussy my friend
Which is fucking bs. Because it shouldn’t. Pussy is not the most important thing in the world
No offense user, but the only acceptable reasons for not having any dating experience at 28 boils down to being in a coma or being committed to a no-girls cult. Anything else is due to a personality disorder, crippling autism, or severe abuse, all things no one is going to take kindly to. You have to find someone who will take pity on you or has a very, very pure heart.
remember to take your red pills every morning bros
I'm not offended. I'm just completely unimpressed by someone who is doubling down on assuring me why it's totally cool to make blind assumptions when the truth is literally a question away. You have every right to judge on the basis of facts as you will but what are you proving with this "acceptable reasons" list? Should anyone care that you already made your mind up about hypothetical things? Let me go dig a gold star sticker out of my desk drawer for you. I have no idea why you're proud of any of what you wrote.
You think pussy really is the most important thing in the world.. and you also really think because someone disagrees with you they are red pilled? You sound like a fag
>Why is it that people (especially women) always tout “its immoral to judge someone based on how many people they slept with” or how it’s just “not right”
At least they word it right, and not the pathetic stammering we usually hear from guys.
>G... guys can fuck as much as they want!! G... genetics and e.. evolution says so...! W... whore!
Either way, low partner count is a positive for other people with a low partner count. A high partner count is great for people with a high partner count. It's that simple. Don't worry about the other group, they won't care about you anyway.
THIS
just fucking lie, at 28 all you're going to get is left over women anyway so who cares
>men doing the same where they don't want to be judged for their virginity but do judge women for having sex
It's almost as if men and women are different and carry different prefrences, values and expectations of each other. Not like men have traded their labor and protection for a wife's virgin exclusivity in a marriage for the last thousand years or anything.
>>G... guys can fuck as much as they want!! G... genetics and e.. evolution says so...! W... whore!
I literally never said this
A person has no right to be upset they're being judged over something this expected and basic. If you're 28 years old and you don't have your driver's license, have never had a job before, or have never been with a chick in any way, even e-dating, you've failed as a human being. You've missed crucial developmental stages and whatever prevented you from reaching the absolute bare minimum is irrelevant from the fact that, if I date said perma-virgin, he can't be my equal, he has to be my responsibility. I have to teach him lessons in love and relationships that I do not want to teach. Do I really want to put up with this man's first fight with a girlfriend? His first time having to compromise his own needs for mine? That's very, very demanding on me, my time, my emotions, and my future.
That's because you are terrible at communicating.
I have slept with 3 guys, two virgins, and someone who apparently had a long list of previous partners. 1 virgin was awkward, but learned after just a few times, the other was extremely quick at picking it up, and I didn't even realize he was a virgin until he came clean later on, and the experienced guy was fucking terrible, and kept muttering something about "my ex liked this...", apparently being too retarded to realize girls like different things.
>have no experience, goes for girls with a lot of experience
What the fuck are you doing user.
You didn't even come close to touching the point I made about ridiculously irrational pride in assumptions.
Look at this fucking yarn you're weaving about a purely hypothetical person. Holy shit. You remind me of politically-minded people who construct elaborate descriptions of people from other parties. Forget a straw man, you've thought though a straw colossus.
Seriously user, take a step back for a second and tell me who this 28 year old with no license, job, etc. is. What's his or her name? Exactly. This is fucking scary. You're drawing conclusions about fictional situations just to reaffirm your feelings. You've taken practicing conversations in the bathroom mirror to a whole new level.
at his age all that's going to be available are scraps
Strange to get defensive like that, because I didn't say you said this. I just said it is just what we usually hear from manwhores here on Jow Forums, trying to defend STD riddled guys, who has dipped their dick in way too many pots of yuck.
Because I agree with the OP post. I would never date someone who fucks around, and I'm a girl. I am looking for someone who has more or less the same partner count as myself, as most people tend to do.
If you feel bad about being a virgin, look for girls with little experience. You wont get strange looks, even at the age of 28, if you go for the right girls. Consider the type you go for. Dolled up pretties are guaranteed to have had a lot of partners in their life. Avoid those. They something else. Go fke the unconventional and more introverted and shy ones.
Why are you whiteknighting this hard?
he would have to go after middle schoolers lmao
Your "acceptable reasons" and apparent condescendance towards people you date outs you as a lousy partner with a limited horizon.
How you like them apples.
I'm in a great relationship and have zero issues finding interested parties, but you can picture me alone and suffering if it makes you feel better.
Oh shit man, i am not that guy but you just killed me right there.
Like there is no way i can come back from this i should just kill myself.
Or or or wqit for it...
I can just try to imrpove aspects in my life thqt i can. Can learn to drive, can get fit and get a job. I mean take a chill pill and go easy on anons. Sure my situation is mostly if not all my fault, but people can be redeemed.
>I'm in a great relationship
Ye, right
But judgning by how you missed my point, you seem to be resistant to learning as well, besides your assumptions and condescendance.
Won't do you good in that "great relationship" of yours, either.
>basic. If you're 28 years old and you don't have your driver's license, have never had a job before, or have never been with a chick in any way, even e-dating, you've failed as a human being
OP here. I’m probably more physically fit and make more money than you do. Shut the fuck up you ignorant judgemental fuck
Because lying is bad
Man I can relate so much. It feels hopeless. I think I should just come up with some complex lies about past relationships.
I don’t think we should lie. I wouldn’t want a partner to lie to me about her past. So I won’t lie about mine
Just find a mommy gf like I did who found it endearing that I had no experience. After several sessions of blowing her mind, she was all over me.
Nobody with half a brain touts this, goddamn
Anyone with any sense says 'decide for yourself how it is for you'
Anybody who believes otherwise is probably a chronic single. The only person who can tell you about the ethical fabrics of these judgements is you. Nobody else should be allowed to define your view.
As for why it happens, because stupid people, and stupid people are a permanent constant.
>get abused early on
>go to therapy and try to bootstrap
>"Sorry, you're too defective"
Well fuck me I guess
You really don't.
Go out more, and stop looking for obvious thots. You'll find tons of girls who are virgins or has at most a partner or two prior, and wont care about you being a virgin.
Well yeah, but most people are hypocrites. Women are pretty bad for it, but at the end of the day, so is just about everybody... myself included. You just see it in them more because you're more sensitive to it in this area of your life.
We have a board for your kind. It's called Jow Forums.
What you're doing is hunting for contradicting opinions to form a narrative. Loaded question fallacies, and this thread, are a waste of time.
You need to gain a holy experience
it's a coping mechanism. They know men don't want used up whores and rather than accept their behavior they want to change everyone else perspective on the matter.
Evolutionary wise, men don't want a girl that has already had another males offspring. It's just instinct. They want THEIR genes to get passed on, not someone else. That's kinda how the whole survival of the fittest thing works out.
For women, it doesn't really matter since their genes will get passed on no matter what so they really don't care how many partners someone has had.
Just think about it for like 5 fucking minutes.
Girls like holy people
Because they are filled with holy experience
Forget about these bad boy fags
Jesus is the way
The reason they reacted that way is simple: girls have life on easy-mode from all the guys that have hit on them that they can't believe that someone with no prior experience exists. Thus they think that something is wrong with that person.
The old "key that opens many locks" saying.
Women attract men and men have to prove themselves. The better you're seen in the eyes of other women the more attractive you are.
Pause for a moment and consider the fact that you are as educated in evolutionary biology as my cat is in trigonometry.
"Girls have life on easy mode" is an opinion exclusively perpetuated by men that don't actually know or interact with any girls.
Women will say literally anything to make you mad. They're pretty much IRL Jow Forums posters, so much like a 4chandroid, dismiss them entirely.
>guys who has never talked to a woman in their life
I talk to them every day.
Sounds like you don’t listen though.
You either don't listen, or you talk to the wrong girls.
I have never heard a girl in my life talk positively about a "player" who sleeps around. At best it was sluts who wanted a good dick, and nothing else. Certainly not anyone looking for a permanent partner.
I'm only at one partner because of a long term relationship (now ex) and I feel bad that someone else will have to be my second. :/
I'm even contemplating just to not date anyone else because of it.
I don't like to judge people for lack of experience, since imo sex should be shared as an expression of love with your S.O.. But I always judge people if they have a giant list of sexual partners, male or female.
It's not 'sexy' or 'hot'.
It's just gross.
Asking the what veggies they'd like on their sandwich doesn't count.
Man you need to find different girls or check yourself if only the lowest rung of the opposite gender want to talk to you.
Alright guys, how do I find a virgin girlfriend? It seems so bizarre that most adult virgins are men.
It does indeed, because most statistics point towards a solid 30%+ of 25 year old women still being virgins.
I'd wager most are just workers not putting any thought into dating, so they kinda fly under the radar for most guys, and when they never seek out anyone either, they just naturally stay single.
Virgin girlfriends are like desert mirages; the fact that you're chasing them makes them more and more unobtainable. Unless you've been raised in an ultra-religious environment (and even then, sexual chastity is real hit and miss) virgin women are generally wholly uninterested in guys that covet them for their virginity.
I'm looking for someone who feels the same way I do. I am not a religous person, but I can't imagine having common ground with a woman who things sex is simply fun and exciting.
I actively avoided dating in high school because most of that seemed like useless drama and I wanted to wait until I had a real relationship.
>I can't imagine having common ground with a woman who things sex is simply fun and exciting.
Yeah. I can't see any decent woman much less a decent virgin woman being interested in you. You're one of those morons who thinks not being a virgin is equivalent to being promiscuous. Maybe if you had actually bothered to make relationships in high school you would have some actual human and experience and you wouldn't have such a childish view of sex.
>A high partner count is great for people with a high partner count.
Lol, nice coping but experienced guys will generally prefer a woman with a low number count even if he himself has a high one. The simple reason why society sees promiscuity differently for the two genders is because men have to do the approaching and move things forward which is a vulnerable and challenging position to be in, meanwhile women just have to decide yes or no. A man who got a lot of women has a lot of value, a women who fucked a lot of guys is cheap. Very simple. Damn, I even explained it without stuttering.
That reply is so harsh and arrogant, it sounds like you are severely hurt. Being inexperienced can be a hurdle but carrying a lot of beggage does as well.
No, I honestly do not have a problem with women who have lots of sex, its not like "they are destroying western society" or something like that. I don't think my view of sex is childish at all, it is just different. It is strange that you said "any decent woman much less a decent virgin woman", does that seem to imply that a non decent virgin woman might want me? Because you don't think that I am decent, and I would appreciate a woman who is similar to me, which by your standards would be not decent.