How the fuck is universal basic income not a fucking retarded idea. Why is anyone talking about this seriously ay all...

It's just a fact that if you give people the option to work or not, most people will choose to not work.

Then you have a minority of the population working to produce enough to provide for a majority who produces nothing of value.

Rather than waste resources on parasites, why not simply remove them?

How do you think communists enforce labor production quotas? Asking nicely?

yang gang

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Why not $2000?

Formerly, workers displaced by machinery were able to find other, often more productive, work. With the onset of the automation era, this relationship may no longer hold. OBVIOUSLY it would be better to give people a minimum income if there's no actual work for them. It's definitely not retarded.

Good thing we have robots to do most of the actual work for us now.
If human labor is still necessary, and it is in the immediate future surely this burden should be equally distributed, instead of most "workers" being glorified slaves of a few oligarchs? Also, the economic system should move towards abolishing the need for work, instead of trying to prop up artificial scarcity and create new markets (i.e. anti-file sharing laws, advertising) to ensure this nightmare never ends. Production for use over production for exchange, just as marx advocated!
You can still give people extra stuff if they work, ala labor vouchers.

Wagie wagie
back to cagie
time for you to toil
I'll take my NEETbux
You'll say "work sucks"
now fry my tendies in oil

I concur.

>If human labor is still necessary, and it is in the immediate future surely this burden should be equally distributed, instead of most "workers" being glorified slaves of a few oligarchs? Also, the economic system should move towards abolishing the need for work, instead of trying to prop up artificial scarcity and create new markets (i.e. anti-file sharing laws, advertising) to ensure this nightmare never ends.

I agree with your principles, but not with your methods.
Automation is inevitable.
But once we have automation, we must face another pressing issue.
If we can produce enough to sustain a population, how big should that population be?
What impact, if any, should be tolerated on the environment?

What I'm getting at, is why not implement massive culling of populations, once those populations become essentially useless, as neither a means not an end to anything but themselves?

With the invention of cars, the horse population plummeted, not due to horse """genocide""" but rather as an effect of them being obsolete.

Why should we not allow the human population to follow suit, once most people are obsolete?

frankly, you thinking that being a worthless leeching sack of shit is a good thing is worrying
its what happens when parents dont beat their kids, they grow up to be you

People that don't work already get free money you mong.
What's worse is that free money stops as soon as you start working.
THIS DISCOURAGES WORK.
Having a flat benefit payment that goes to everyone of working age stops this backwards incentive, and removes the need for minimum wage, which is another barrier to work.

But if there's any supplemental benefits that go to people who work, and withheld from people who don't work, this will STILL lead to class stratification.

People who work will want to live in neigborhoods around other people who work, because it turns out that neighborhoods full of shiftless layabouts are higher in crime

Because (((they))) want to use fiat money to enslave man not to save him.
Inflation is caused only by printing more money which means it can be stopped by taking back control of the ability to print money away from the central bank.
UBI can easily be paid for by eliminating all welfare that exists currently, Removing the minimum wage and making taxes flat would prevent it from being a poverty trap.
If a UBI stays consistent a market will develop for the niche people who want to exist solely off of UBI, That prevents UBI from being an ever growing burden on those who work.

Burn the rich and the (((people))) without empathy.

Because on a purely hypothetical level, it would be more efficient than. The bloated welfare programs we have now. Scrap all that, flat 1000 for everyone, and get benefits like is talking about where people who would have lost benefits due to working can get a job.

Of course, the only way this works is if you immediately restructure welfare into it. Any sort of prolonged interim period where the massive Beuracracy still exists alongside UBI is just going to be the worst of both.

The people working will be robots u fucking donkey brain

It's just the death rattle

I don't think anybody really thinks it'll improve things, it's more like "as long as everybody else is looting the place, I should get mine too". Once politicians can openly bid to buy votes with stolen money, things can really start falling apart.

>prolonged interim period where the massive Beuracracy still exists alongside UBI
That's exactly what will happen. EBT, daycare vouchers, affirmative action, social security, etc will all stay in place.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's strong political pressure to eg, add 100/mo to the UBI for women, minorities, etc. It will end up just being another massive wealth transfer from working men to everybody else, with Walmart and Nike getting the best of everybody.

>CEOs gets multi-million dollar salaries and stock options
>entry level gets $8 if they are lucky
>company couldn't survive without all the people at the bottom who do all the actual work
>company could survive without a CEO.
>Automation is cutting out the workers at the bottom for more revenue for the top.

Really makes you think. You can't constantly funnel money to the top, somethings gotta give eventually.

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>Croatia.
>Supports child beating and not rational punishment (at worst spanking/nine tails when children are too young to be reasoned with).

Now you're rigid and entitled. Your pineal gland has calcified.

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10/10 post

Because people think they can just change the government instead of changing themselves
>Should I stop buying new products made out of rare Earth metals to do my part to save the environment?
>Nah just vote for climate tax

>Should I work out and improve my physical health
>Nah just vote for body positivity

>Should I develop skills to get a good job
>Nah just vote for UBI

The problem with this line of thinking is that you can't vote the rules of reality away. If there's no food you starve. No ammount of human right for food will change that.

>People get free money so we should give out more free money

Yangtards everyone.

It is a tactic to accelerate the immanent collapse

I thought it was dumb too until I realized people who don't work or are poor will have to use all their $1000 on basic necessities or will waste it on garbage since they are dumb.

People who are already able to cover their basic necessities, like working class married people would be able to combine their $1000 to finally afford children and down payments on houses. THey wouldn't have to waste it on food and dentist bills since they already have those things covered.

It would help working class people get ahead more than it would help poors and niggers who would just buy weed like retards.

You could say it's not a brilliant idea so much as it's just an inevitability. That is unless there is likely alternative to solving the issue of having too many (unqualified) people and not nearly enough jobs.

For conservatives, this answer was just to retrain coal workers. It didn't work. So now what?

>to save the environment?
LOL implying the "environment" need to be "saved". How people can be so braindead, is it the tv ? I don't watch this crap since 1998, and I'm stunned to see people parroting bullshit like this.

>Should I develop skills to get a good job
>If there's no food you starve. No ammount of human right for food will change that.
If there's enough food for Abdul and Fatma, there's enough food for me. Stop behaving like welfare doesn't exist. UBI is welfare for white people.

>That is unless there is likely alternative to solving the issue of having too many (unqualified) people and not nearly enough jobs.

When that truly becomes a problem, the bankers will start putting weaponized smallpox in the chemtrails. They're definitely not going to give you free money to so you can keep breeding and shitting up their planet forever.

In the simplest explanation would be the fact that your are say, an American citizen, holds economic value and that being part of the entity that is America means you are entitled to a small share of Americas value. Since you are a voting shareholder of America.

UBI is here to prepare us for total automatisation of the workforce. Citizens will have only one worthy thing left - their buying habits. So you give them money so big data can make money on advertising and manufacturers can make money on selling. Because economy is fake anyway this closed circle will work.

Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. Maybe I can get a $1000 out of it. We'll see. Either way, I have literally nothing to lose by voting for UBI.

>Walmart CEO gets $20,000,000 a year roughly
>Employs about 1.4 million people
>Divide equally among the people at the bottom

Congrats you just gave everyone about $14 extra for the year except now your company has no competent CEO to run said company, stave off competition, lawsuits etc etc. People can't balance there own finances, how do you propose the 1.4 million niggers at the bottom run the company?

I honestly think we should globally enforce a 2 child policy. Since 2.1 is the rough replacement rate we would get a slow decline of the global population over several generations. Slow enough society doesn't collapse but eventually we will be at a sustainable level. No money to Africa either, if that area can't sustain a lot of life the population shouldn't be that high.

2 kids though are heavily subsidized if the country can afford it. That way we stick at a birth rate of 2 as close as possible.

This. Automation is coming whether you like it or not, the wageslave system is not indefinitely sustainable. If you don't do anything, the millions of jobless starving people will simply kill your politicians, slice your throat, and take your bags, because noone gives a fuck about your "MUH INDIVIDUALISM, MUH NAP, MUH BOOTSTRAPS" lolbertarian/shapirokike neocon boomer autism when they need so survive.

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It’s simple, really.
If you don’t wanna work, you will still get an income.
And gradually you get to keep voting for people that promise to increase that income in exchange for your vote.
It’s pretty simple, desu.

Ok wait till farmers stop working because of UBI

It is retarded

automation creates jobs, how retarded are you luddite?

The birthrate is already below replacement in most of the developed world. The only people who would follow your gay rules are the kind of productive, low time preference people who should be having five kids.

If you have some proposal for how to stop Nigerians from making billions more Nigerians without using nuclear weapons, I'm all ears.

corporate decisions are made in a board room, not by a single entity. CEOs are like highly paid scapegoats.

Kill yourself dumbfuck boomer. Noone takes your economic fantasies seriously anymore, this isn't 2012

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These two are interesting options. Do it. I wish we did that shit here.

Not *everyone* has a low birth rate

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It's like the welfare version of flat tax. Simplify and shrink the state. Another way of looking at it is a supplement to trickle-down economics to ensure the bare minimal amount reaches the bottom.

It's the only humane solution to complete mechanization that will also allow mankind to progress.

Money is a representation of economic energy. This energy's production will soon be monopolized by machinery. The machines are going to be what pays for UBI.

And who knows, maybe when they're not so choked up with bills and misery, Americans will be able to heal all of this angry, vile cynicism that's infected their souls in the absence of religion.

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It creates jobs for high IQ individuals, usually while replacing 1000's of low skill jobs for every 1 new job it creates.

Unfortunately, it's going to accomplish the exact opposite of all your goals.

A formal joint stock dividend (in lieu of all existing entitlement programs) might work better, as long as citizenship was tightly controlled.

But nothing like that will survive the US political system. It will be turned into yet another corrupt gibs program, paid with increasingly worthless money.

Universal basic income doesn't make any fucking sense if you have to pay taxes!
Government just gives back SOME of your money in this case.
Being a taxpayer and recieving a UBI is just a more convoluted way of paying less taxes.

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The idea is that it['s funded by taxing the companies with the robots. Problem with that is those companies already dodge the majority of their tax burden. Why can't companies pay their fair share? I sure as fuck do.

Most of them aren't adults, even if they're considered so legally.

First thing you learn when you move out is everyone wants a piece of your pie (earnings). If they find out you have a larger pie, they want a bigger piece. Every single person recieving an extra $1000 a month just means your combined expenses are going to cost on average another $1000 a month. (((They))) will find a way to shake it out of you. It just leads to inflation and you're kidding yourself if you think it'll be possible to store that money away. It benefits a working person 0, and a nonworking leech 100%. This will lead to more shitskins feeling less inclined to work, and more inclined to sitting around in their taxpayer funded apartments, eating shit with their taxpayer funded freebie bux, and shitting out more taxpayer funded babies.

If you want acceleration, this will certainly cause it. But in such a way that if you're an employed person you're going to increase your suffering before it all collapses.

Just think of the robots as a stand in replacement for your labor, except instead of them paying the robot, they pay you.

Kek, iam a Bachlor Professional of Metal Production and Technology and i work in a big german company.
Robots kill jobs ass fuck, i have one mechanic for like 20-30 machines (it could be less but if 1 or 2 gets sick or the 1 in 1000000000 chance happens that machine X Z and Y breaks in the same momment the production is fucked). And PC are getting better and the fucking programms are going better. My company wants to buy a software which says which machine is going to breake next, fucking black magic. The only jobs which are not automated at the momment in my workspace are 50% jobs which are to cheap for robots and the other 50% are jobs which need creativ thinking or skill with you hands. Robots get evry day cheaper so many peopel will get workless and now think if in the next 10-20 Years evry 4th person lose his job, we will get fucking slumms and ghettos evrywehre. And oh boy around the year 2050 we will get the singularity that means in 2051 EVRY job who dont ned 9001 handskills and extreme creativ and abstract thinking will go away. You can be against the UBI i dont give a fuck i will live with the Artist,Musicans Lawyers Car mechanics in the wealthy Fortress citys and piss on your heads from the city wall.
UBI is the next logic step in the human evolution or a right for work one of two.
Sorry for the bad english.

It won't work like that.
Robots are the result of labor too. Just because automation exist, doesn't mean someone should get any money because reasons. Hell, automation was rolling non-stop since industrial revolution. Jobs come and go, that's normal.

Except we're not being replaced by dummy steal and steam. We're being replaced by thinking machines that can already win at highly skilled games like GO, beat lawyers at their own practice and straight up run laps around radiologists. What new job is going to be created by this that someone with below 130IQ can preform?

Yep ideal competition necessitates a 20 mil salary for the CEO and everyone else on the BoD and It is hilarious that you believe the CEO (1 person) somehow "runs" Walmart and is the head of its legal team(?) which is false and you unironically believe the education and experience combination needed for the CEO position is worth more than 250 people not only that but he needs excess wealth while his workers are literally starving NOT because of their "bad finances" but because Walmart expects them to get on welfare WHILE THEY ARE EMPLOYED BY THEM

>Why is anyone talking about this seriously at all?
Many years of leftist indoctrination in those brainwashing centers we call schools. They teach kids they are entitled to the good things in life by virtue of being born. Many coming from single mothers who get checks, housing, and food stamps, so they have seen it from the cradle.

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it is a retarded idea.
it's taken seriously exclusively by retarded leftists
as for why? probably an excess of chromosomes

>We're being replaced by thinking machines that can already win at highly skilled games like GO
Yeah, no.
I do machine learning ok? Right now it is a highly advertised meme. Yes, it works, but not at a scale you think it does. GO is difficult because there is some many possibilities and combinations and it does not involvle element of advanced problem solving.

>lose job to robot
>government gives you $1000 because you don't have a job
>gets $1000 by taxing the company that just fired you
>company is now being forced to indirectly keep paying you to not work for them anymore
retard

Don't try to tell me that self driving trucks are a meme. They're already being test driven.

That’s why Yang will go nowhere

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I don't work directly in machine learning but I asked some of my colleagues that do and they told me they don't see autonamous transport being viable for the next 10-15 years.
There's a difference between some test drives and actual implementation. Even if the technology works, getting the legalities to work will take a long time

Does driving a car and not crash require any outstanding skills? No.
Self driving cars are just advanced sensors on wheels, there is no magical algorithms in them. Hell, jet plane autopilot existed for how long now.

Of course the jew wants to protect their wealth

>People that don't work already get free money you mong
not in my state, you have to work to receive assistance and even then it goes away after a while.

>Don't try to tell me that self driving trucks are a meme. They're already being test driven.
Yeah much like the cars are prevalent right? Those will fail badly as they are not as simple as a car to drive. Just the difference in handling characteristics makes it 5x the challenge.
They actually tried to make, and are still trying to build an automated concrete pump, but again the variables will make it close to impossible, and will most likely kill people if ever put out in the real world.

>10-15 years

That time frame doesn't exactly instill a sense of equanimity, even if what your two friends say is true.

>as long as you're not making money off of forced labor.

UBI is funded by taxes. Taxes aren't voluntary.

Holy shit imagine being this fucking stupid.

Again, they're being test driven right now. Cross-country. Little to no accident. It works. It's coming. It's represents over 7 million jobs in America.

Everyone gets gibs from the big daddy guberment.

I didn't bring up automated driving as an example of AI's skill. I brought it up because it represents over 7 million jobs in America.

>People will stop working for 1000 dollars a month in America

And poor people are the retarded here?

>how is an unregulated forum that spits out new threads faster than a junkmail shipyard not a bad fucking idea when it renders the whole site pointless since no one can actually discuss anything properly before a thread is moved to the fucking archive bin
Try to speak this at loud voice and without pause.

Ops.

Can i just a thousand less in taxes every month?

>it represents over 7 million outdated jobs in America.
Put store cashiers there too for a good measure.
Just because a job exist, doesn't mean it is usefull or profitable.

I find it amazing how nobody complains about welfare, and then once people suggest giving money to struggling white families everyone loses their fucking minds and starts talking about work and responsibility and shit. It's like that possibility is just totally off the table

I never said anything about the usefulness of the job. What are cashiers and truck drivers supposed to do when they're replaced? Learn to code?

It will not be taking over anytime soon. It will kill people at some point in the near future. Also I would like to see what kind of loads these supposed trucks are carrying, and on what roads. Because I am willing to bet is they are specially chosen routes, nothing too dificult, and nothing with high traffic.
Remember the cars have already hit several people. Which also brings in legal responsibilities.

>How the fuck is universal basic income not a fucking retarded idea.
Because productivity is increasingly being separated from labor.

It’s communism rebranded for covetous and gullible western morons. There’s no point in arguing against it, since its proponents do not arrive at their support for it logically anyway. It’s best to just let nature run its course and watch as the world’s governments prepare for another routine democide.

>It will not be taking over anytime soon.
most people predict within the next 5 or 6 years.
It won't happen all at once, it will start ramping up gradually

But again, that's just one example. this trend is happening in all industries, it's happening right now. Amazon is totally destroying local retailers, go to the amazon warehouse it's all robots. The reason that wages have remained flat for working class folk is largely because they are forced to compete against machines (and who wins that fight?)

>commies in the present day are basically the only people trying to abolish it
For prisoners. Moral, working people can slave away for the state.

They should requalify for a job that is in demand.
Sorry, but you can't complain that you are missing your job because robot does it better.

>Why is anyone talking about this seriously ay all?

No one is.

>They should requalify for a job that is in demand

Because that worked great for coal-miners.

But again it is only being run in selected areas. Most people also predicted the coastlines would be underwater, and that those cars that have been in development for far longer would be common, but are not. People predict all sorts of things.

Billions is being sunk into this research, it's happening. If you think it isn't happening you're just delusional, you're like someone denying we'll ever have cell phones

>It will not be taking over anytime soon.
The dirty secret of AI research is that human ingenuity is completely wasted. Every single technology that companies like Waymo have been developing is being erased by general methods based on learning and search. So when the self driving cars do take over they will also be more than capable of replacing any other job.

Are you proposing that US should put niggers back in the fields to pick cotton?
Coal miners situation is unfortunate, but that's how life is. Shit happens, "gold rush" is not forever, jobs disappear. You either adapt or you die.