This is driving me nuts...

This is driving me nuts. You speak English as second language and you learn that "lying" is the verb without object and "laying" is with object; you're lying on the bed, you're laying a pillow on the bed. And that "lay" is also the past form of "lying". But then again and again I hear native speakers say "laying" for the verb with no object in present tense or whatever it is called, the base form I guess, it's not past tense because then it's either "lay" or "was lying". Like here at 3:09
>What is the lion doing? He's LAYING there.
How I'm I supposed to care about the rules you read about when no native speaker ever follows them? They always say "laying" for the verb with no object.

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So then use laying also? Who gives a shit?

I sometimes think about how complex certain aspects of our language is, and that no non native speaker could ever fully comprehend it, and wonder how you thirdies do it lol. Thank fuck I was born a native English speaker in a time that it's king and of no need to learn another language lol

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wait till this motherfucker finds out about the telling of lies

I believe you mean the telling of lays

What? It's my second language, not third dumbass. Nor am I from the third world.
>in a time that it's king and of no need to learn another language lol
typical american that never had a passport

also, English isn't the most complex language, pretty sure German is more complex

Not to mention for you its just expected that you learn English whereas if I decide to put the effort into learning one it's seen as interesting and exotic

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I'm from Scandinavia. Went to college in London for three years, and within the first year of living there I was speaking better English than 50% of the native population.

People are dumb. Natives in my country pronounce words wrong to such an extent that the formal language is changing its rules to accommodate the younger generations. As long as you care to speak/write correctly, you're doing good work.

Until the day you actually step foot outside the West and realize how little you knew about how many people speak English globally. The world isn't like Jow Forums just because there's flags here.

I know all I need to know about the world from Jow Forums and wikipedia tyvm
And no one worth speaking to can't speak some English lol

Well, I'm from Sweden and I know what you're talking about. But that's usually plebs. "Laying" I've heard I think three people use "wrong" in a week. One of them was a detective for LAPD.

If you’re not speaking like the natives, can you really say you’re speaking their language correctly? Language rules are made up, and it sounds like you’re using them to feel superior to those stupid foreigners who aren’t as good as you at following orders

Not him, I'm OP, I see your point and that's why I said why should I care about the rule for "laying", but I always did this in my own language Swedish, followed certain rules that others don't, and I've been frowned upon for it by the hip kids. It's probably because I'm autistic. Most people just follow the herd and when it's fashionable to speak a certain way, usually a niggery type of way, they do that rather than how people speak on the news or in books. This is even part of the diagnosis Asperger's iirc, to use "too" formal language for the setting, I mean psychiatry is a fucking psyop to dumb down the gullible gentiles.

>and that no non native speaker could ever fully comprehend it
kek imagine unironically saying that

I just did lol
Just think about all the little subtlities of English and how there is no way a learner go possibly understand and use every little nuance

It’s just that non-autistic people don’t care about using every single word perfectly. Nothing to do with niggers and psyops, unless you’re schizophrenic too

A lot of times non-natives know better what they're doing because the natives are just doing it by rote.

No it's plebs. For example 14 year old girls and immigrants in the suburbs speak differently from the 60 year old white middle class man, and by different I mean inferior in this case.

There you go again imagining that you’re better than everyone because you’re better at following rules than them. Language changes. Don’t expect a teenager to talk the same as her grandpa.

Fucking dumbass, I know perfectly well what I'm talking about, down talk down to me monkey.
In Swedish there is "var" and "vart". Originally, and still by everybody who isn't a nigger tier pleb, var=where (location) and vart=where to (direction). Immigrants and 14 year old girls starting saying "vart" for both, literally making the language poorer, and this is now used by lots of people but not everybody, just plebs, the kind that has tattoos etc. It's objectively an inferior form of the language and it's not used by people who aren't total nigger trash.

I was on several occasions told by native Londoners that my English was excellent, and they thought I was British. I can't undo my language skills, but it has nothing to do with feeling superior. Not really sure what you mean by not speaking like the natives.
I'm talking about stupid fails like confusing 'have' with 'of'.
>He should of called you after the date.
Shit like this happens in my native language as well, and the only excuse for it is it sounds kinda similar, but it doesn't make any sense when you type it out.
In recent years in my country they've officially changed the plural for 'cows" because people have been saying it wrong for a couple of decades and there's no stopping it.

You seem upset that no one is following your precious rules

My point was that langauge is constantly evolving, and you can’t expect the “rules” to be followed by everyone. If natives are “mispronouncing” words then you should too, because they know the way the language works better than you, a non-native who’s memorizing made-up word laws

>My point was that langauge is constantly evolving, and you can’t expect the “rules” to be followed by everyone
If you could manage to read my first post, that was exactly my point.

>the formal language is changing its rules to accommodate the younger generations

I didn't say no one. You're fucking retarded.

I don't just mean grammar rules. Like for example think how there's often so many different words for the same thing, but they all have slight differences in their connotations and such, and that by using a different word you subtly change the tone and effect of your utterance

You’re freaking out about “plebs” and “nigger trash” ruining your perfect formal language. I’m not the retarded one here.

If we’re going to be pedantic about what we both specifically said, my post was a response to you saying
>Not really sure what you mean by not speaking like the natives.

Pretty much every language is more complex than english. Literally one of the easiest languages to study.

>English is second language
>Not from the third world

Pick one (1)

>the natives
In the UK or my country? Explain to me like I'm twelve, since you don't realize you're playing the pronoun game. I said 50% of the native population, implying half of Brits don't into speaking properly. It's not about 'speaking like people are speaking', since not all people who speak incorrectly do so in the same ways.

OP's frustration lies in the fact that a lot of English speaking people don't follow rules or conventions in their own language, when he'll get worse grades if he doesn't learn correct grammar.

I came here to tell him the same things you're telling him. This isn't something there's any point in getting upset about. People are either dumb or don't care. He should either stop caring and keep on practising correct langauge skills, or dumb himself down and follow suit.

It's called infinitive.
Also don't learn rules just learn by examples. Languages are fickle bitches and that follow rules because exceptions are everywhere.

Two answers to your question:
1. English is one of the most eclectic of languages, having borrowed vocabulary and grammar from dozens of others. Along with that came many different grammars, that now cohabit in modern English. (Why is the plural of cow COWS but the plural of ox OXEN? Because -en was the rule for plurals in Old English, and ox is one of the few words that retains it. Interesting, but infuriating to anyone trying to learn the language.)

2. In ALL languages, the common spoken language tends to smooth out or violate a lot of the strict rules. Sometimes they eventually replace the "correct" ways. (Anyone over 50 would have been taught a complicated distinction between the meanings of I WILL and I SHALL. No one makes that distinction today, even in formal writing)

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>people using slang means they’re dumb
the fuck u on about mate

If you knew my native language, you'd know the type of incorrect pronounciation I'm talking about are sounds that an increasing majority of young people actually never learnt how to physically do. It's not slang, it's a lack of correction by their teachers/parents resulting in not being able to distinguish between tongue positioning, or controlling how air flows in the mouth cavity.

You say this cause you don't have to learn greek as your NATIVE language. We literally have 10,000 words to describe a beggar.