Girls...

Do you have any idea how many young guys lost their virginity to prostitutes during war since the beginning of recorded history? Are they broken people? Were they forced to regret it?
Come on man.

Yeah I know people didn't say that stuff back then, though circumstances were different. I'm just talking from my personal experience with people making it sound like something very important.

Only bitter virgins say that.

It would make me really insecure. There's a line that you cross when you pay for sex. I would be worried about how he viewed me, and how he would treat me in the relationship.

>There's a line that you cross when you pay for sex
What line is that?

>people didn't say that stuff back then
>circumstances were different
Lol no. Were you raised by a single mom? I'm just asking because you seem to be buying into this cultural fantasy idea that is simply incongruent with reality.
Prostitution is quite literally the world's oldest profession. Some of the richest and most successful men see prostitutes regularly, primarily because it is convenient.
This is just your ego talking, man. Relax. You don't owe anyone an explanation

Depends on how I found out. If he didn’t tell me before we had sex he is a scumbag. I should have the option to talk about it and decide if I want to fuck him or not after.
Personally, if he was upfront about it and got tested. I don’t care.

>Were you raised by a single mom?
Nah. But neither of my parents really told me about how to handle the opposite sex so I'm kind of clueless now.
Don't people (especially in their twenties/early thirties) still consider paying for sex kind of pathetic?

You don't have to talk about it.

What people say publicly and what they admit privately are two very different things, so what difference should it make to you?
Take a look at this: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620128/Johnny-Depp-Star-Wars-creator-George-Lucas-Jack-Nicholson-names-Hollywood-Madam-Heidi-Fleiss-infamous-black-book.html
I know you might think these guys get a free pass for being famous, but actually it's quite the opposite if you think about it. Do you think when teenage girls fantasize about their perfect 10/10 leading man they picture him doing rails of coke off a hooker's ass? Nope. But this is just the kind of shit that goes on.
These guys have more to lose than you do, and this is what they do on a regular basis.
Stop worrying so much.

My first time was with a girlfriend I loved 6 months into the relationship at 17.
It was awkward AF and terrible. For both of us.
For a lot of people the first time is super disappointing because you've almost literally been led to expect the magic crab from little mermaid to pop out and lead an orchestral number about it.. it's just smelly grunty thrusting (it gets a lot better with time and experience.)

I strongly suspect people who say this shit didn't wait for "someone special" and when their experience was a disappointment they by default assume it's because they didn't wait for someone special. Nope.

I mean.. you have a good point and I agree but you know daily mail is a tabloid right?
I accidentally turned on push notifications from them and have neglected to turn it off, and I'm still getting warnings every other day a massive meteor is coming to wipe out man kind at 3:23pm tomorrow.

It's no secret that the clientele of Heidi Fleiss' escort service were rich and famous men.

Like I said, good point, agree.. don't quote daily mail

"Most people" is a broad generalization of people making broad generalizations.
Paying for a prostitute is pathetic if you're blowing good, important money on anything more than carnal pleasure.

>If you're doing that only as a last ditch effort at sex, and you do not have a lot of money, it's pathetic.
>If you're really horny and you want to spend that sexual energy so much that paying is worth it, then it isn't pathetic.
>If you're wealthy, it's most likely not pathetic.

Most people are in a position where it would be pathetic to pay for sex, that's why they say it.
For most people it's better to fuck a normal girl.

>Waste of money
You know they say the happiest people spend their money on experiences instead of things and I've consistently found it to be the truth.

And I gotta say I'm no virgin and been with a good amount of women and paying for a professional just once sounds really fun.

I disagree entirely is what I'm getting at.

I didn't say it was a waste of money, I said that how pathetic it is, depends on the situation. The only case I called pathetic doesn't even apply to you.

Why would you even feel as if "sounds really fun" is in any way "disagreeing entirely" with what I said?

Also, I'm not sure how it is in your country, but when you do this, make sure the girl is down with doing the shit you want. My last fwb was a prostitute, and she was obviously good in bed, but wouldn't suck dick without a condom and shit like that with clients, a lot of the younger ones are like that around here.

The guy you're responding to isn't me (OP) but I'm pretty sure your first example applies to me since I don't have much money (but it's not like I'd spend it on anything else anyway, I have some cash saved up that I don't use).

I'd rather he was a virgin than lose his V card to a hooker. Thats just nasty

21F

If you're doing it only to lose your virginity, that's kind of pathetic. That shit isn't important and losing money over it is dumb. But if you actually want to get the experience and won't miss the money, go for it. Anything that you don't do over stupid emotional insecurities is fine user.

I really want to fuck, and I think having zero experience also contributes to making me uncomfortable around women. Those are the two reasons why I'm considering it.

Then do it. I think it is overkill, but you could do it to just get over with it faster too.
You do not need to justify your decisions to us.

The same thought went through my mind when I was close to losing my virginity.
I just watched a bunch of actual couples doing amateur and learned how to masturbate women.
My first one didn't notice and even told me I should call her again. I was 20 and she was a bit of a slut.

>nasty
Why?

Why do you think it’s overkill?
>My first one didn't notice
How did you meet?

I'd be disgusted and heavily judge, yes. It's a clear red flag that something is deeply wrong with you and you act upon your impulses. If we were friends, then I probably would stay friends, but would never share anything personal with you, nor get too close to you.

>red flag
Why?
Your reaction sounds pretty extreme, what makes you feel so strongly on this?

Random drunk girl at a party.
The second was a childhood friend, right after my first experience.
The third doesn't count, since I fucked the second one a lot.

I wouldn't tell anyone lol. Lying in a relationship isn't something I enjoy doing but honestly it's not really my partners business and shit. People get really judgy news at 11.

Oh, I forgot the overkill part. I think it is overkill because having sex isn't a complex thing. It might be hard for a fat fuck, but experience isn't that crucial. People won't laugh at your face or turn away in disgust of the way you fuck. If you put a bit of effort I don't think they'll notice you never fucked, just like they didn't in my case.

You have nothing to lose except some money though, so if you're really losing sleep over that shit, just fuck a hooker. Don't tell anybody though.

I'd dump him immediately.

Why?

>People won't laugh at your face or turn away in disgust
Eh it's not really about what'll happen during the actual sex but more about how to get there. Apparently it's pretty obvious when a guy's a virgin by the way he carries himself, unless you're unusually confident. So that makes it complicated, and the more time passes, the more complicated it gets because people's expectations get higher.

Never had this experience. I think that might be a personal hung up of yours, so just rent that pussy and see for yourself.

Please have sex with me.

>a personal hung up of yours
I swear people can smell it. I'm not being paranoid, and I'm not a complete social retard either so it shouldn't be that obvious. I don't know how but I experienced it.
>rent that pussy
Yeah I'll probably go through with it. Despite most women ITT saying it's disgusting and whatnot, at least I'll get to fuck a hot girl which wouldn't happen in a million years otherwise.

20 yr old F. I'd be very very put off and would consider leaving him desu. Just because it's against my current morals. I want a guy who isn't so into sex he needs to get a prostitute. People who hire hookers aren't bad people. It's just not compatible with what i want from a partner.

I hope it works. Don't talk about it though.

>We literally now live in a world where common sense has to be explained in detail

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Why can't you just explain? I don't think it's about common sense, it's just a person you pay to fuck.
As I said, your reaction seems a bit disproportionate.

>>so desperate for sex that you have to pay $$$ for a woman
>>can’t woo a girl with your own qualities; what does this say about your ability to communicate?
>>risk of STDs?
>>who’s to say you won’t go back for more?
It’s a dirty habit, is all.

>be desperate for sex
>stay desperate and don't get a hooker to just get it over with
>desperation increases
>unattractiveness therefore increases as well
>both things reinforce each other in a vicious circle that turns you into a bitter, hateful person
>time passes and social expectations increase similarly while you stagnate
Of course that's the worst case scenario, but how is it preferable in any way?
I'll admit that I'm not a very attractive person and lack communication skills, but as I said above, it's a negative feedback loop. I'm not a teenager anymore, I can't afford to waste time making a fool of myself by trial and error.

Hmm, I see your point. I guess I’m too much of an optimist, but I like to believe that we can dig ourselves out of these negative feedback loops. I have nothing against it, but society at large tends to.

>Girls, be completely honest: what would be your reaction if you knew a guy you were dating or in a relationship with had lost his virginity to a hooker?

Why would you vomit everything in your past onto someone else? STOP WANTING TO DO THAT!! Why did you think it was even remotely worth doing?

The most valuable advice I can give in that respect is learn when to shut the fuck up. People talk too much and listen too little.

>shows you aren't capable of getting a girl organically

That's why.

>we can dig ourselves out
We definitely can, it just takes a lot of time and effort, especially for someone who's starting from zero, with no social circle, etc.
I'm doing what I can to improve my situation, but as I said, since I'm basically catching up on shit I was supposed to do during my teens, I don't want to wait until my thirties to be attractive and confident enough to woo a girl.
>I have nothing against it
Wait I thought I was talking to the person who said it was disgusting and stuff. My bad I guess.

Sure, your SO shouldn't be treated as a therapist, but don't people just share things sometimes?

>I don't think it's about common sense, it's just a person you pay to fuck.

Stop thinking others should think as you do. Or not, in which case you don't want advice, you want affirmation.

Absolutely a dealbreaker, unless it was something like 10+ years ago and he deeply regrets it.
It's just disgusting.

Well yeah. I mean I would if I could.
But I'm not sure how being incapable of getting a girl "organically" is supposed to be fixed by staying a virgin.

More disgusting than being a 25-30 year old KHV?

Absolutely. I'd much rather be someone's first than sleep with someone who slept with a hooker.

What I don't find coherent about this is that someone with no experience at that age would almost certainly be inhibited, not confident in sexual/relationship matters, and overall not very attractive, which wouldn't give you any incentive to want to sleep with him in the first place.
But as another person said, at this point it's not really about advice and more about opinions, so whatever. I just notice a discrepancy when people say "virginity doesn't matter" yet find themselves understandably unattracted to inexperienced people.

Wrong. Most men (and women) who go to prostitutes can also get it in the normal way. They just pay for some factors that make it worth it such as convenience.

You're mixing it up. They're not undesirable because they're inexperienced, they're inexperienced because they're undesirable.
The incentive to sleep with them would be who they are as people. If I like someone, virginity or not wouldn't be a problem to me.
I haven't been with many guys, but every time you start sleeping with someone new you have to teach each other what you like. So I think that even if someone is a little inhibited or inexperienced, it isn't a huge deal because you learn pretty fast what you have to do and I have no problem telling people what I like.

Virginity doesn't matter, the actual reasons why you're virgin do.

Yeah, that's the starting point.
You're unattractive as a teen, so you never get laid while everyone else seemingly does, but what I'm saying is that this in turn reinforces your insecurities and it snowballs as time goes on.
Also, telling a girl you're a virgin past 20 will be perceived as a red flag anyways. Not because of the above but just because it's not attractive to be clueless. I only have my own anecdotal evidence (experience) to back that up, but that's still something.

>If I like someone, virginity or not wouldn't be a problem to me
But if they're attractive enough that you'd like them, why would they not have experience? That's my point
>Virginity doesn't matter, the actual reasons why you're virgin do
Past your teenage years, I feel that it starts becoming irrelevant. Putting aside complete outliers, a 25yo khv is guaranteed to be unattractive (physically or in his behavior)

I'm not a khv but not far off after almost a decade of loneliness as a recluse. Not stopping me so far desu.

I'm not sure what your point is. I never said you had to be a khv if you're reclusive, or the reverse.

>this in turn reinforces your insecurities and it snowballs as time goes on.
It does, for sure. But while virginity can be a source of insecurity, it's not something that, by its own nature, makes you undesirable.

>telling a girl you're a virgin past 20 will be perceived as a red flag anyways
The only reason why it might be perceived as a red flag is because usually it has a significance. I dated and liked virgins without it ever being a huge deal to me.

>But if they're attractive enough that you'd like them, why would they not have experience? That's my point
I mean, I don't care if a guy I have no desire to get involved with sleeps with a prostitute.
I'm just saying that sleeping with prostitutes disqualifies you from dating me. If I wanted to date a guy, and I could choose between him being virgin or him sleeping with a prostitute, I'd prefer him being virgin.

>a 25yo khv is guaranteed to be unattractive
Not really in any case, but yeah. Not because he's a virgin, tho.

I didn't make the point very well but I'm challenging your claim they must be unattractive. I've had enough interest recently in spite of being a fucking state for so long.

>it's not something that, by its own nature, makes you undesirable.
Alright I understand what you mean. I just don't think it's very significant, because in practice, virginity and undesirability logically go hand-in-hand most of the time, for the reasons you've stated yourself.
>I dated and liked virgins
So they didn't have any of the traits usually associated with being a khv (unease with women, lack of confidence and all) or did you just not mind?
>Not because he's a virgin, tho
No, because he's unattractive and therefore a khv, and therefore unattractive, and therefore a khv, et cetera.

>they must be unattractive
Because if you can't attract a girl then you're not attractive.
You said you weren't a khv. I'm not certain a dry spell would give you the same kind of perceived feelings of undesirability as someone who's literally never had a relationship.

>when you lost your vcard at 25 to a mtf escort
>when youve only been with mtf
>when you want a cisgirl
>when youre basically a virgin

>if you can't attract a girl then you're not attractive
My friend is actually a khv and they find him attractive, he's just fucking awful at closing.

>Would you find it disgusting or shameful, would it change your opinion of that person?
Yea, I wouldn't date them.

You most likely don't realize that far more men than you think have been with prostitutes, yes even the confident handsome ones who can easily get girls. You probably even dated such a guy without knowing.

I guess he's an outlier then.
I'm not trying to purposefully move goalposts to fit my point, but as a rule of thumb (i.e. generally speaking) virginity goes hand in hand with unattractiveness, that's all I'm saying.
You can safely assume that a 20-something that's bad at social stuff and uneasy around girls to be a virgin, and the reverse is also GENERALLY true

I mean fuck I'm not even ugly (confirmed on the decent side of average) and although I'm not a paragon of sociability, I can talk to most people just fine. Yet girls easily figure out that I have no experience.

I'm fairly sure attractive and successful people are more likely to sleep with prostitutes than ugly weird virgins.
And no, I dated seriously with 2 guys in my whole life. One was too broke to pay for one (I literally supported him myself for the entirety of our relationship as adults), the other is super weird about sex.

They did have some, I just like weird dudes. A guy who is a little uneasy with me is nice, I like awkward dudes. I don't like guys without a confidence but most of the time it's not too horrible.

I live in a country where not that long ago, it was pretty common for fathers to take their kids to the red light districts when they hit 16.
Usually, the kids were already regulars there since they wre 12 though.

When does awkward in an attractive way become awkward in a creepy way?
I don't mean in general, just your personal opinion interests me.

Well, first - be attractive, don't be unattractive. If I want to fuck you, it's a lot harder for you to be creepy.

My boyfriend is a huge sperg (both ironically and unironically, he's a Jow Forums shitposter type but also has legit autism), but he's fun about it. When we get in an uncomfortable situation because he's being awkward, we just joke about it and it's fine for both of us.
If you make me feel uncomfortable because you feel uncomfortable, then it's going to get creepy soon.
Don't flirt heavily if you're not pretty comfortable while doing it. You come off as weird, pushy and odd.
Also, as stupid as it sounds, be yourself. Not because you're so much better by being yourself, but because people can fucking tell when you're faking it and it comes off as creepy as shit.

I see, thanks for your honesty. That's more or less what I expected (not in a bad way).

I wouldn't say that virginity going hand in hand with being unattractive is a reliable general rule. Plenty of people are virgins because of their religion. I'm a virgin for neurotic reasons. I've been approached many times in my life, even explicitly asked out a few times, but because of mental problems I've avoided relationships. It's something I've come to terms with now, but it's probably too late for me.

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>GIGA when?

My boyfriend told me about his previous encounters with them and I'm trait glad he told me. Sometimes I feel weird about it but I think it told me how much I meant to him . It's a big trust thing, if you really see a solid relationship with a girl, tell her.

How old?

I was a late bloomer . Lost my virginity at 24 to a 19 year old girl I met at a bar.

I had to do a lot of self development to get there and I don't regret waiting for so long.

Late twenties.

>Yes, I'd think it was a desperate move. Honestly I think that I'd break up with him.
>t. 22 yo girl
this, even though it is legal over here, I have no respect for sex work and people who make use of it

Don't you feel that losing it so late has affected you negatively?

>degenerate
>how no self control
>obvious sign you're one of those types who never wants to fix himself, you want your problems fixed for you hence hiring hooker to fix your virgin problem
>even most incels won't hire hookers, you're worse than incels
>obviously immature personality
>clearly something is wrong with you if you can't attract a female and you ruin those chances further with hookers
>probably a hermit or social outcast
>lack of patience
>disgusting and depraved
>has no self dignity
You'd have to be either really deeply retarded, be born yesterday or a brain dead feminist to not know any of this. Next you'll tell me people who abuse Meth should be validated too. Only street trash people lack enough dignity to hire hookers.

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Be fixing yourself, retard. Stop being fat, fix hygiene, get hobbies, go out. Stop being unappealing and degenerate. You are the biggest cuck of cucks if you pay for sex and she isn't even going to stay. No normal sane people in real life will take you seriously unless it's another whore or someone that's lowerclass.

It they can organically get laid, then why the fuck would they pay for a hooker? It's like someone allegedly can pirate any music they want but they pay for a spotify premium instead. You're bullshitting.

>if you have trouble getting women it must mean you're fat and unhygienic
Fuck off. Go larp elsewhere.

This kind of boggles my mind. I mean I understand where they're coming from but at the same time they'd never touch this guy even if he DIDN'T fuck a prositute, so why even care about these opinions?
The whole reason OP is considering hookers is because women like the ones posting here wouldn't give him the time of day in the first place so worrying about their judgement seems pointless. Just do it OP, don't let your dreams be dreams.

Stop being such a retard. It is a fact that men who go to hookers can and do get it the normal way too. Only bitter kissless virgins like you don't. Reasons to go to a hooker:

>convenience
>guaranteed sex
>no waiting, no bullshitting
>willing to do sex acts normal girls won't
>leaves you alone after

Isn’t tinder a good in between

like he had a choice u retarded roastie

I’m a dude lmao

Right?

My first time was with an escort when i was 28, still am.

Literally after 2 days of it happening some girls who have known me for 2 years said i acted more relaxed and some time later my friends said i acted more confident.

Granted i dress better, lost like 30+pounds and groom better too. I dont feel different though, weird shit.

In the meantime i have been with 5 other escorts, prostitutes. Tried out some fantasies and other stuff. It has only been 4 months since the first encounter and i am done with them, maybe except for an ffm maybe.

I never had a gf, and might never will. I am quite behind in my life in general to most people, career education but i am making grounds.

On OP though, i dont think i will tell a potential future partner i paid for sex, unless it specifically comes up. Doubtful though. I see this as in the same way how i wont tell her how the smoking german redhead 40 year old sucked good dick and was just a nympho, had a body that rivaled any 20 year old too. I dont expect her to talk to me about chad s dick or whatever, so theres that.

>some girls who have known me for 2 years said i acted more relaxed and some time later my friends said i acted more confident.
Yeah I wonder what this is, how people can tell something's changed even though you personally notice nothing. It's weird

I guess you cant tell the incremental changes?

It is about growing and getting old, just really sped up since all the stuff i should have experienced when i was a teen and in my early 20s was condensed in 2 months, it was hell of a 2 months though.

This is relevant to my current situation. 24yo not a virgin, but only been with a single girl 3 years ago.
Honestly to the virgin anons out there I can say that losing your virginity is not worth it. I don't think it has affected me positively in any way. I'm still super awkward and scared. I don't think you should just have sex with anyone to lose your virginity. I kinda regret losing my virginity to that girl since I wasn't particularly interested in her.
One of my best friends from high school only lost his virginity a year ago and he's 1,90m tall, blonde, blue eyes, six-pack abs (national handball team athlete) and intelligent (we went to my country's only school for gifted students), math major. He's just even worse than me at talking to females.
So about me, my doctor diagnosed me with anxiety disorder and OCD, I've been seeing a therapist and taking medication which I think has helped me, but I still just can't talk to most people properly. So I have been considering seeing a prostitute for a low pressure environment. I'll mention that in my country sex work is completely legal and controlled by the state. All sex workers need to do a weekly health check-up, etc.
Like I feel that if it can't be my ideal gf anyway, between some random girl at a club and a professional there's no real difference.
Oh and an inexperienced question; the one girl I was with had an IUD and when we had sex I would keep bumping into the metal chain (I read they sometimes have strings) which was painful for me and I would get a tender red spot on my penis. Is bumping into the cervix often a problem for girls?