Why does making interpersonal relations with the opposite sex seem like such a daunting task for a small (albeit...

Lack of experience during childhood and exposure to cancerous ideologies.

I wonder how many of these man don't even have a fucking sister or something.

Depends on what you consider an incel, but talking about male virginity it is actually on the rise in later life.

Lumping all male virgins with incels is splitting but then again I guess splitting is basically what has dominated political discourse for the last 20 years or so

You are factually wrong. The number of incels was at its peak when they had their own reddit. After being kicked off they dispersed and faded into smaller communities and many chose to give up being incels.

Male and female virginity is rising and the amount of sexual partners is decreasing. This is well known.

Male virginity is rising more than female one, but yes, you're right. So is anxiety, low self esteem and a ton of other bad things, actually.

Or maybe the understanding that sex just isn't a big deal and that relationshits are rarely worth it.

All of that is just nihilism, it's more than well proven that relationships, sex and socializing are pretty much key for a happy life no matter how much we want to pretend only money matters.

Socializing is a crucial bit; the others just aren't.

Having sex and relationships are perhaps the core of human socializing.
Also a friendship is still a relationship.

Because survival of the fittest hinges on environment.

Women are retarded, non-practical biological animals with a herd mentality. If the herd says "migrants", women fall in love for migrants. It isn't their fault, as they're too stupid to understand their own biology.

You see, women are frail and brain dead. How does such a weak creature ensure the survival of her genes? She adopts the trend that's least likely to result in failure.

Nowadays, it's popular to sleep with HIV-ridden niggers and to "twerk" to be accepted. Herd mentality dictates most women should do this. Some women do not. Why not?

Because the women who do not do this have successfully found a man who leads at such unparalleled demeanor that survivability for future generations is assured.

In summation, if you want a regular woman, just act like an uneducated nigger, get arrested, paint your skin a few shades dark, and become HIV positive (and having herpes will help).

If you want a real woman with ideas of her own and a high enough IQ to allow her to think beyond spreading her legs, then you need to demonstrate yourself to be better than just good.

males and females cannot be friends. There is always a caveat to the relationship, one person being attracted to the unwitting other.

Well, in context I thought we were talking about romantic/sexual relationships. Obviously friendships are important. Sex isn't though, hence fewer people waste the time on it.

Even assuming that's the case, how would it be a problem?

Because the internet fucked humanity.

I agree with that, I'm just saying friendships you have with another male friends are still relationships.

Sex is extremely important to the degree lack of sex and sexual frustration is a very important predictor of unhappiness.

based & redpilled post

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I wouldn't know. I am willingly making my life more miserable by trying to talk to women with the hope that it may improve my life someday.
I don't really want dating but I need to do it to get a girlfriend.
I don't really want a girlfriend but I need a girlfriend to get married.
I don't want to get married but I need that to have children.
I a bit neutral on kids too, but I want to play with Lego again and genuinely wants to be a father.
Everyone wants to believe sex is so important and it is the best thing in the world but I couldn't care less about that.
I have tried it, it was okay but it is not on my top ten most favorite things to do.
Right now, I voulenteer for other people's kids and I enjoy teaching them things, planning things for them etc.

the problem being that it always leads to dissatisfaction. My shrink told me this because I was pining after a LTR lost.
Platonic relationships between the sexes can only function if both parties are not attracted to one another, or if there's blood relation.
Your only friend is your aunt, sister and grand/mother (sadly sometimes even they fuck about)

I know op, i have so many resentments against women and am so much of a sex narcissist that women im with pretty much have to bang almost everyday or i end it, but end it eventually anyway because thats all they are to me. Other than family or women i dont find attractive I litteraly cant try, and if they dont want it i stop talking to them.

I honestly think that's right. It is essentially impossible for men and women to be friends, one of the two will always be sexually attracted to the other because that's just how people work. Men do not want female friends since male friends are better for them in any way, and it's the same for women. The only reason women and men mingle is to fuck.

>Platonic relationships between the sexes can only function if both parties are not attracted to one another, or if there's blood relation.
That's not even true.
One of my most long lasting friendships is with a man. He's married, I'm engaged. We both think the other is physically attractive, but never wished to pursue anything past that because we don't feel chemistry for each other and we want different things in life when it comes to relationships.
There were very long phases when we were friends while both being single, nothing ever happened, neither part ever even hinted at it.
We met in college and we've been best friends since. Even now, if we hang out alone (rarely happens because I love his wife and he gets along with my boyfriend) we just watch tv, have a beer, banter and talk about our lives.
9 years and going strong.

Well in my expirience it's because I've spent so many years isolated. Idk how many men spend most of theyr time alone but I guess that could be part of the problem. Lack of exposure to women.

yet you do admit you find him attractive.
Were he ugly, you wouldn't have kept him at bay 100%.

Probably because lack of sex indicates that other factors are missing. Say the person isn't social or lives in a very unhealthy way or has some unhealthy attitude towards sex due negative experiences or religious dogma.
Sex by itself just doesn't offer too much.

Sounds like more of a problem DEALING with the dissatisfaction. Pining is obviously harmful for you. Simply being attracted to a friend isn't, when you don't make shit awkward for both.

Also confidence. Many men don't develope confidence Idk why.

as I said, the only reason to keep being in theor social circle is attraction.
You can be friends for decades, until the tension reaches its peak, of course.

I think he is a handsome guy, I never felt sexually attracted. Same way I think my best friend is one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen, but never really wanted to fuck her.

Probably it wouldn't have been as easy to be friends if he was ugly. Not because I'm repulsed by ugly people or something, but because ugly men have less options and they often end up pursuing whoever pays attention to them.
The fact that he's a handsome guy and has never had trouble finding women (including his awesome wife) is probably a big reason why we manage to stay friends.

iktf.
I'm a decently attractive guy, get hounded by women during summer, but I stopped going out after she cheated on me. Made me feel miserable and ugly.
I just don't want to feel that way anymore, so I'm better off not trying.

This sounds pretty true

Many people don't. Lack of confidence affects women way more than men.

>Lack of confidence affects women
Huh really? Can you tell me more about this I'm curious.

A number in any group will continue to grow as more people begin to relate to one or two things someone from that group has said. only a few will adopt extreme versions of the groups motto, but that isn't the problem. once you group something up and give it a name there are unintended side effects.

>Or maybe the understanding that sex just isn't a big deal and that relationshits are rarely worth it.
absolute fucking cope. Anxiety and pornography consumption drive men away from modern relationships, while the alternative might be more fulfilling it becomes too hard to attain in comparison.

Absolute fucking cope. It is easier than ever to get into relationships or just sex.

Can't be assed to look for actual studies but here's an article talking about it: forbes.com/sites/jackzenger/2018/04/08/the-confidence-gap-in-men-and-women-why-it-matters-and-how-to-overcome-it/

Besides, IMO it's something you notice pretty easy IRL. Women generally act more demure and agreeable, tend to suck at negotiations due underestimating theirs own skills and so on. It's just they are way less vocal about it, than men who make up cope cults like incels and mgtow shit.

I think it's more the last 5 years the internet has been bombarding men with the radical stuff on both sides. Honestly both feminism and the incel shit need to die it's gonna do more harm than good in the long run.

But they aren't hard to obtain for somewhat normal people. And again, as previously mentioned obviously having relationships with other people is crucial for your wellbeing. Whether you stick it in them or jerk off doesn't have a huge impact though.

Your worldview is too tainted by Internet losers who are dying to get laid but can't.

mgtow is a gay recruitment psyop. These people are not "men".

Not that user, but
A lot of women's sense of worthiness is based on their looks. We grow up in a society where women are rewarded for being pretty much more than they can be for any other of their traits, no matter how outstanding they are. A lot of our childhood games, a lot of our social interaction, show that as a woman you're worthy only if you're pretty.
Just a little example: I remember a few years back my country sent a female astronaut on the ISS. She came back to earth. First question when she was interviewed was about her looks, the second was about how she maintained her hair while she was in space.

Social media promotes a very unhealthy ideal of women, because it is very easy to manipulate your appearance to look much prettier than you are. Even an average looking woman can look super pretty with face tune and posing her photos right.
When you're exposed to a lot of gorgeous, flawless women living their best life all day, and you base most of your self esteem on how pretty you are, it's easy to get how heavily it might be impacted by not looking flawless.And no one looks flawless.
Women always had trouble with their self esteem, now more than ever.

Not saying men don't experience similar things, but often their looks don't matter as much as other things they can bring to the table and they're praised for their other qualities.

try being a manlet, stupid bitch.

Idk in my country a woman that can repair clothes/cook/ and is into DIY stuff is very valuable.

>Not saying men don't experience similar things

The impact of not looking good is much harder on females because the only thing they're praised for is looks. I doubt Jeff Bezos cries himself to sleep or has trouble getting laid despite being short. And neither does Mark Zuckerberg.

Because confidence is hard to come with and with traditional masculine behaviors being constantly shamed it's hard for men to be proud of anything which is necessary to be confident

Add a hard time landing jobs, failing in education, life milestones such as living by yourself and starting a family being absurdly hard in the current economy and you have the current generation of men

I'm not saying they're not valuable, but very few women are consistently praised for being good at stuff, both in childhood and in their adult life. Most women only get praised because they're pretty, only feel valued by men if they're good looking, etc.

If it's easier how come less people are having sex than ever?

I understand. It just conflicts with
what my grandmother used to tell my cousins. It went along the lines of if you can't use your hands to help you might aswel be dead.

There is also the whole fuckery with bitchy/bossy when a female displays behaviour that would count as assertive and positive when a man does it.

>traditional masculine behaviors being constantly shamed
But dude, that's bullshit. Unless you consider sexual harassment "traditionally masculine".
Stuff associated with masculinity gets constantly praised or at the very worst excused when it's high sex drive or more violent behaviour.

>hurr durr there are manlet billionaires
can you people stop citing literal billionaires as examples? seriously can you even think?

Many actors or footballers are manlets too. It's simply not a big deal and the worst you'll get is an offhanded joke. Being an ugly women on the other hand either makes you invisible or a hate/pity object.

Oh wow, It's so easy to become a famous A list celeb right? fuck off, yea I agree that ugly/unnatractive women have it hard, but any average woman, with enough makeup and getting fit can become extremely attractive. The average manlet can go so far, even if he is fit

the ugliest girl I know has a bf and like 3 side dicks. She's fat and balding btw

You chose to be a manlet, it's a state of mind. You have the looks advantage and yet refuse to use it to get girls easily. Probably gay in denial.

I mean, I know plenty of short men who don't have trouble getting laid. Most of my friends have dated at least one man in the 5'5"-5'8" height range, and one of my friends who hangs out with me in uni is 5'6" and just stole the girlfriend of a 6'2" guy last week.
I don't think that if I called them by name it would sound any familiar to you, so I brought up examples that would mean something to you.

If you have other qualities to bring to the table, often being short isn't the end of the world. I understand how it might impact your self worth, tho, which is why I said that men can experience feeling bad for their looks too.

Because there are more alternatives than before. And there is nothing special about sex because it is so easy to get. So millenials just stay inside and play vidya instead of bothering to go outside.

>just bee yourself ur probably gay for being short xD

Okay you are so obviously a lanklet virgin baiting. Everyone knows taller men have a harder time getting girls because it's hard for them to look good.

are you serious dude?
Manletism is a pretty big handicap.
Super lanklets can at least join a basketball team and get laid through sheer height.

>It's so easy to become a famous A list celeb right?
The point being that manletdom is unlikely to be a limiting factor to reach the top of social popularity. It's definitely a con on the average but nowhere near as bad as being an ugly woman.

Anecdotes time? The average manlet I know gets laid most than their peers. Though to be fair, most of the manlets are in the 5-'6 - 5'7 range and not something overly comical.

You are so obviously a bitter tall virgin larping.

the ugly girl has had a crush on me since kindergarden, and we were close friends during childhood, so we chat at times.
She's ugly to the point of being near undateable, yet fucks randos weekly.
Meanwhile I'm an emotionally burnt out loser who has gone from chad to incel after a shitty relationship.
Used to be the popular type and shit. Now I'm a homey shut-in.

On second thought it's probably more about masculinity being redefined than shamed. I just meant that the stereotype of the stoic man isn't as admired as before. Some traditional masculine behaviors such as being sexually forward or making all the decisions yourself aren't as well looked upon as before, chivalrous acts can be seen as internalized sexism, etcetera. Gender roles are weaker than they've ever been and men have always relied on them massively for socializing. It's why men have so many problems socializing now imo.

>emotionally burnt out
That shit has a larger effect than muh looks, nigga.

yeah, I know.
I used to be a cheery, outgoing, talkative type; well dressed and neatly groomed at all times.
Now I'm quiet, glassy eyed, and wear scuffed track pants everywhere. I just can't bring myself to trust or approach a woman anymore.

i believe its the constant suspicion that everyone gets from the opposite sex that gets misinterpreted by everyone. The Small group you are refering too OP are the guys who hypercfocus on those suspicions and get so easily confused by simple acts of kindness as acts of interests. Its also thanks to these suspicions that they are secluded and feel speaking up at even at inappropriate situations their only option since they arent around the opposite sex as much.

I don't know
The only thing I want is for a girl to like me back
Not even to get in a relationship but just as a token that I am valid and that there are female human beings out there that aren't repulsed by me

This hurts. Even though I'm just decent looking.

Some of that repulsive feeling is just coming from you. Maybe try to put the thought out of your mind when it comes to girls thinking about you and your looks, but keep up in fashion for yourself rather than dressing for someone else.

You need to have some likeable qualities. Ask yourself why a girl would like you.

I don't like myself, in fact I despise myself. Yeah yeah I know about the whole loving yourself shit but it doesn't work for me because I'm too humble to think I'm worth anything if other people don't think so.

It's not meant to hurt. It might take some growth to not fall into the "fall in love with every girl who pays attention to me" pattern, but everyone can achieve it. It's not like I wouldn't be friends with an average or ugly dude, if he didn't have feelings for me.
I think its far easier for men who have a lot of options, tho.

It's pretty hard for us ugly dudes, I think people underestimate just how little female attention you get as an ugly male that also happens to be shy. I've legit gone 27 years without one girl showing interest.

Because females don't want to aknowledge that men bellow 7/10 even exist.

that's okay dude, I'm an ex chad who attracts low quality whores like flies to shit, hence why I gave up trying. Haven't had sex since like 2013.

Which is completely different. You get people attracted to you and decide not to interact with them, which puts you in a position of power. In my case I don't have the choice to not interact with them because they don't want to interact with me at all to begin with.

But it's you who chooses to not interact with them.

>ugly male that also happens to be shy
That's obviously one negative too much. But also pretty much down to you, bro.

you arent humble, you passed that. Thing is you need to stop thinking about yourself in general. Take who you are out of your head and focus on other things but dont try to prove that you are a good person because there is no need to do that.

It's a bad combination. Being a mostly passive male in general is a bad thing.

I guess it's not so much being humble as having absolutely nothing interesting or good about myself to share with other people.

>I guess it's not so much being humble as having absolutely nothing interesting or good about myself to share with other people.
thats because you are too inwardly focused. Focus on other topics or what the girl has to say. dont worry about being percieved as interesting, they will decide because what they find interesting can be really stupid.

>Being a mostly passive male in general is a bad thing.
Being passive is bad in general; just easier to be a passive woman due muh gender roles.

Also there are different levels of passivity, I never asked anyone out and still had easy time getting dates despite average looks due a cool attitude and showing interest in others.

In a way, maybe. There is still a difference. If I choose not to act noone approaches me, if you choose not to act people still approach you.

I am an introverted person so yes, I am inwards focused. I'm interested in other people and what they like but I stick out like a sore thumb because I never have anything mine to share, and people kind of expect that after you ask them about themselves.

Yeah I get it but at the same time I am tired of this "you must be a go getter proactive dude all the time" shit, I just want a calm life.
I don't think I'm entirely unlikable, it's more like I am completely uninteresting. I'm basically background noise on people's lives, basically the last person a girl would ask out for a date. It's like I am extra, sometimes I feel even outside of my own life

Women are pretty judgemental, manipulative, egotistic and vile. Their ability to ghost and ignore people should be a warning to any thinking man.

>but I stick out like a sore thumb because I never have anything mine to share
you think you do, but no one notices. You try too hard and think too much to take any action and that causes yout

cont.
to spiral.
you need to stop thinking as much and to do that is experience new thinngs that take you put of your head.

I don't believe in this whole "people just chat but never actually share anything or remember what the other person says". I remember everything people tell to me and use it to make small chat with them on later occasions. That's what makes me such an empty person, I don't have anything to share with anyone.

>making interpersonal relations with the opposite sex

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just because you do doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. trust me you arent as intetesting as you think.

Doesn't make much sense stop conflating misogyny with being involuntarily celibate.

>implying women can't be fun to be around ever
>implying women never have interests