I want to convert to Christianity...

Or you could just stay in your seat

sounds dumb.
>oh no, he ate our special cracker without being dunked in a pool first!!! whatever shall we do?!!

it doesnt matter whether you fuck up the eucharist or not anyway, because you can just give the priest some chuckee cheeses coupons and get all your sins absolved.

Integrity? They made a church and a organization to control people and to get their money. Historically, Christianity started out as a free belief system where everyone where equal by just having belief and try to do/be good. Their God was never in a house of worship, it was everywhere.
You can see how that didn’t sit well with the people of power. And thus, 2000 years later it hs become so twisted we got tons of different branches of Christianity, and non that went with the original plan. Whops.
So in easence; dosent matter what you think you need to do to become christian, it’s all wrong anyways. Their way of morals and what you think is integrity is at the whims of the person who holds the power. Enjoy.

It is better than letting someone tellyou what to think before you think. There are a few, myself included, who don't see anything very magical about it. If you read what "Jesus" says, It is nothing like what people say he says. But that's just me.

Read that first sentence back to yourself. What do you think the bible is?

The reason that non-Catholics, even non-Catholic Christians and those who are under sin shouldn't take the Eucharist and Communion is for their own good. It represents the acceptance of the Body of Christ and the His Faith carried on by the Chair of Peter, in both the form of the Trinity and the Transubstantiation affixed to it. It is considered dangerous for others to partake because it represents their acceptance, which many do not hold to the tenants of the Catholic Faith.

A comic book. But you can see what is true and not. Bilam was real but his donkey could not talk.

blah blah blah, you weirdos can keep your jesus juice and weird crackers.

>you can just give the priest some chuckee cheeses coupons and get all your sins absolved.
It isn't the priests who absolve the sins, but Jesus Christ. However, it requires a contrite heart. Without that any Confession is null.

>blah blah blah, you weirdos can keep your jesus juice and weird crackers.
What is your purpose here then in the thread? You carry an air of superiority, yet you seem to act in no manner deserving it.

Aah, so you cherrypick what is real and not of the bible. As people have done for so long, and is responsible for so many crimes and immoral behavior. Let me guess, you’re the one thwt got it right?

sure, but you give the money to the priest for the indulgence. You're not burning chuckee cheese coupons as a sacrifice directly to God, are you? You can say only god can forgive, but the catholic church says that you can simply buy forgiveness from any old priest. And you totally can!

I don't like Catholicism, it's a hypocritical self serving cult that completely undercuts almost every useful thing that Jesus ever allegedly said or did. Plus it's fun to take the piss out of jesus freaks of any denomination.

>sure, but you give the money to the priest for the indulgence. You're not burning chuckee cheese coupons as a sacrifice directly to God, are you?
Money is not required for any indulgence. I'm honestly somewhat confused by this assertion as it goes against Canon Law.

>You can say only god can forgive, but the catholic church says that you can simply buy forgiveness from any old priest. And you totally can!
Can you actually cite this? Or are you referencing the actions of the Church from the Medieval Era? Granted, there are flaws in both the ancient Church and the modern Church, but that is the nature of humanity. Even the first Pope, Peter denied Christ three times.

>I don't like Catholicism,
That was apparent.

>it's a hypocritical self serving cult that completely undercuts almost every useful thing that Jesus ever allegedly said or did.
This is a very general statement. Can you actually expand on the points of hypocrisy? Cultishness?

>Plus it's fun to take the piss out of jesus freaks of any denomination.
I hope it brings you happiness.

>cherrypick
No. Anybody who believes any part of the bible is divine sohuld follow the whole goddamn thing. I see the bible for what it is. A collection of history, allegory, philosophy, plagiarism, truths, bullshit. It is good in internet hands. People talk Jesus shit and I have never met even a liar who said that they read the whole fucking thing from cover to cover. I have. I have read other stuff too. It wasn't written by God. It was compiled by Constantine to smooth political relations.

you may not be able to directly pay money for an indulgence, but "charitable donations" certainly can.

There's nothing for me to cite really, other than common sense. Why do you need another human to tell you anything about God? Why is his knowledge of God any more valuable than anyone elses? Why do I need to go to a human to confess, when I could just do it with the direct connection every human supposedly has with God? The very act of putting one person over another, especially in the context of religion, is inherantly self serving. They can say that only Jesus can do such and such, but they invented the bloody rules that you have to follow! I mean, where in the bible is any of this shit about the eucharist or these weird artifacts, or this trinity or transubstationation shit?

So in turn, it’s pretty useless.

To cover the hypocrisy thing, i need only to mention the pedophile priests that have been and still are implicitly acknowledged by the very top of the Church. Remember George Pell? He was third from being the top of the churches command structure, he was the archbishop of austrailia, was also the treasurer for the church, he still is a cardinal, and set up one group for helping children who have been sexually abused.

He's also a convicted pedophile, convicted with four charges of molestation of young boys and one charge of rape, again of a young boy. These are historical cases, meaning they happened a long time ago. Specifically, these molestations and rapes happened in the 90's, and have only been brought to light now. How many more kids did this guy rape? He's had twenty years to help other pedo priests, and to rape kids. He also only got six years.

You can't say George Pell is just some bad apple, he was literally third away from being Pope.

>you may not be able to directly pay money for an indulgence
This agrees with my statement.

>"charitable donations" certainly can.
As I had stated previously, an indulgence received without contrition or under coercion is automatically illicit. Intention matters.

>There's nothing for me to cite really, other than common sense.
I'm sorry, but this isn't a strong position to argue from.

>Why do you need another human to tell you anything about God? Why is his knowledge of God any more valuable than anyone elses?
Jesus left His Church to Peter. Particularly 2,000 years since the events of the Bible there can be both linguistic and conceptual differences between then and now, even with word-for-word translations. Think of what a word like "queer" meant 20 years ago compared to today. It has a new and totally different connotation. It is the task of the Magisterium to study both the exegesis and hermeneutics of various texts to determine which are in line with the actual history and lessons laid down. The study of the Scripture by the Catholic Church is why there is one Catholicism and 10,000+ denominations of Protestantism.

>Why do I need to go to a human to confess, when I could just do it with the direct connection every human supposedly has with God?
The role of the priest is mostly for guidance to create the best state possible for one to enter a state of contrition and to humble themselves before God. There are exceptions, as one can receive Grace by that same contrition even alone.

>The very act of putting one person over another, especially in the context of religion, is inherantly self serving.
The role of the priests and apostles is to serve, not to be served. While priests receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders, they obtain no special favor of morality. Again, this is expanded on both in Canon and the Bible.

I'll refer to my earlier point
>They can say that only Jesus can do such and such, but they invented the bloody rules that you have to follow!
I mean, what more must I say?

(cont)
>They can say that only Jesus can do such and such, but they invented the bloody rules that you have to follow!
Jesus tasked Peter with leading the Church, but every single Apostle had reiterated that all salvation came from Christ.

Matthew 16:19-21 (NRSVCE)
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

1 Corinthians 1 (NRSVCE)
12 What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

>I mean, where in the bible is any of this shit about the eucharist or these weird artifacts, or this trinity or transubstationation shit?
Luke 22:17-20 (NRSVCE)
17 Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; 18 for I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 Then he took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And he did the same with the cup after supper, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

>Luke 22:17-20
I must have missed the part where he said that every human on earth that worships him must do this.

>Matthew 16:19-21
hold up, so popes have magic powers? is that what you're saying?

also, this clip incapsulates my feelings on the pope apparently being able to change heaven.
youtube.com/watch?v=K8k5hw6BsY8

I don't think so. Sounds like you are smart enough to give it a read without displacing your own wisdom. It is the same kinda shit that was written before and after it. all that what's it all about stuff. I don't see the magic but i see the search for it. Interesting that cyrus rebuilt the temple and freed the jews who were really born out of Egyptian religion. Cyrus and the wise men, (Old and New Testament.) were Zoroastrian. There is a part about Jesus busting the gates of Hades. Is this an admission of Greek gods? More likely symbolic leveling of the field. Old Testament has people at dinner and in combat with angels. People can fight them, they eat. Fun stuff. Aliens? Advanced civiliians? Idk but it is interesting that a lot of those stories have little esoteric value and could be read literally. Yeah, it ain't the best book. But you can set people straight when you know what it says better than they do.

>To cover the hypocrisy thing, i need only to mention the pedophile priests that have been and still are implicitly acknowledged by the very top of the Church.
I agree with this. It is doubly bad as the clergy should be held to a high standard for conduct as they represent all things in Catholicism. Every single individual responsible, regardless of level should face punishment here and now, and in the hereafter. I would amiss though without making a note. Humans are fallible and sometimes evil creatures, but one must separate the institution of the Church with the individuals who lead it. In a more holistic sense every parishioner is the Church in total, so even if the entire Vatican were to go to jail or sink into the ocean, God's Church on Earth would still persist.

The people who lead the church define the institution, not the other way around. The pope we have right now is apparently A-OK with pedophiles, seeing as George Pell is still a cardinal.

>I must have missed the part where he said that every human on earth that worships him must do this.
See Matthew 16:19-21 (NRSVCE). This passage also exists in the other Gospels. It was the responsibility of the Apostle/Pope Peter to become the caretaker of the Church, and as described in each of the Gospels, those decisions would be held to.

>hold up, so popes have magic powers? is that what you're saying?
Jesus gave the authority to drive out demons and heal people to His Apostles. This isn't to say that Popes are magical. Everything is derived from Christ, including Transubstantiation.

Mark 6:7 (NRSVCE)
7 He called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits.

>The people who lead the church define the institution, not the other way around.
This is 100% wrong, and directly contradicts Canon Law. The people who worship are the Church, and the Church is part of Christ. The trappings and institution are merely a shell. The original Church involved a bunch of homeless men going from house to house preaching the Good News. Jesus didn't give Peter the keys to care for the Vatican, but the PEOPLE who are to be saved.

i dont give a shit about canon law or your beliefs in this instance. What I'm saying is, for all intents and purposes, the leaders of the church ARE the Church. you can say that everyones a member and the church is everywhere, but in the real world, the church is an institution run by humans, and that institution is defined by the people who run it. Not just the instituion of the catholic church, but literally any group or institution is defined in the same way.

>i dont give a shit about canon law or your beliefs in this instance...the church is an institution run by humans, and that institution is defined by the people who run it.
If you want to define the Church as something like a typical business, say Microsoft, then you have the privilege of doing so. This is probably your limit without consideration of the philosophical and theological aspects of it.

I consider it wrong evidenced by my prior posts, but you can contend whatever you wish. This might be an impossible gap. As an analogy, America and American is defined by the people who live their lives and work in the land, not the government.

>This is probably your limit without consideration of the philosophical and theological aspects of it.
Alright, no need to get condescending about it, I understand the theological aspects of it just fine, I've simply decided to not take those into account, as they are irrelevant to my argument. Like I said, once you cut out beliefs and "canon law" and all that jazz, you're left with cold reality. And the cold reality is that the Catholic Church implicitly condones pedophiles, the bloody pope himself condones pedophilia as long as it's an ordained priest doing it, and the catholic church as a whole is colored by these leaders.

That analogy also doesn't really work, as Americans vote in their leaders, so the U.S. Government is actually very representative of the average american as a whole.

>Alright, no need to get condescending about it
That wasn't meant to be condescending. There are many who simply consider belief to be so alien that it isn't possible for them to conceptualize an abstraction like that. Apologies if it seemed like an attack.

>And the cold reality is that the Catholic Church implicitly condones pedophiles
I think a lot of the leadership, potentially including the Pope are evil people and that this might be an Anti-Pope on the Seat of Peter. This is very scary due to Biblical prophecy about the near destruction of the Church. That said, we have out practical and theological split with how to define the Church, and that is something we're just not going to find common ground on. In this case, the practical and ethereal don't mix well. This actually turned out to be a pretty interesting discussion, none-the-less.

>That analogy also doesn't really work
That is a good point. It wasn't a great analogy, but it didn't seem to matter as you already appreciated my line-of-reasoning already.

You got that ass backwards. The government represents the will of the people. That’s the idea.

Oh yeah, a very interesting discussion. I don't think we're gonna get much farther than we have already, so with no hard feelings, I wish you the best in life.

Adieu.

To you as well. Since this is a weeb site, I'll just say Ganbatte!

OP, read John 3 today, it takes 5 minutes for the whole chapter. Then maybe the whole book of John, takes maybe 3 hours. The other Gospels take about the same.

Denominations are usually familial. If your family is a certain one, it will help you to have growth to attend with them. I'm baptist though if you wanna know why I'll tell you.

Did you choose to be Baptist?

I was raised baptist, yes. Became hardened atheist for 15 years. Found Christ against all odds. Didn't attend church for first year, just read Bible. Was in your situation looking for a denomination, went to Catholic church for about a month, then I tried orthodox, then I tried a baptist, stayed baptist after learning doctrinally what the difference was. Didn't have any family that went, but like I said in your early growth it helps to have somebody who loves you read through the Gospels with you, but I didn't have that so it's not really critical.

Theres a lot of perspectives in this thread, and that's okay. I just wanna bring in my own perspective.
I was raised non-denominational and I still follow that lifestyle day by day. I would recommend you finding a pastor or Bible study group in order to understand the inner workings of the theist philosophy/lifestyle. I would also recommend thinking about your own flaws and insecurities each and everyday, and understand that even though these things hold onto you like a monkey on one's back, you're still loved by God. And God's love can transform those flaws into strengths.

One thing that I really want anyone whose a Christian to understand is that it's not about the religion, it's about the relationship. You need to know God, not know of God. So the easiest way to implement this is to pray, not in magical words or in a fancy dialect, but a conversation. I've been mad at God, so I spoke about my frustrations, I've been desperate for God, so I spoke to him about my needs, and I've been happy with God, so I thank him for my blessings and ask for even more blessings.

Attached: 024.Jacob_Wrestles_with_the_Angel_Gustave Dore.jpg (1486x1883, 485K)

Finally, Christianity is not a competition, it's a lifestyle. I've been taught by my parents and pastors that this life is not one for butting heads to see who's right and who's wrong. Its really about preaching by action and decision, not by debates about whether God is real or not. Working through with a cheerful and compassionate heart will show others that you're a Christian rather than stupid arguments about identity politics or social stuff. Guide others to the right place and speak life into other people's life, you may not know the Bible from front to back, but a simple "I love what you're doing" or "You're loved by us" or "God bless you" can plant a seed into other's hearts that can grow decades from now. (This is very important if you want a significant other to convert to Christianity). Getting all mean spirited and argumentative about people being non-believers isn't gonna get others saved, slow and thoughtful words to the non-believer will open up the chance of salvation to happen.
I want you to understand that you have the chance to change your families lives forever. Remember to be quick to love and slow to anger, and understand that people won't immediately say yes and hallelujah when you first bring up your faith. It's a slow build of decision making and prayer, and as a brother (or sister, I dunno) in Christ, I believe that you can do all these things through Christ who strengthens you.
Do not doubt yourself, doubt your doubts and do not get discouraged if any of your family says no, keep on praying that they'll open their hearts to God every single day

God Bless you man

Attached: 761346856_B977323200Z.1_20151213144742_000_G1G5Q4PFE.2-0.jpg (600x805, 59K)

Catholicism is the less retarded, as in you don't need to be brainwashed for it, you don't need to pay 10% of your income, you don't need to "act" like you are possesed.

Papism is a very degenerate religious ideology nowdays, but at a personal level it's the less demanding, you are not shunned for not going everyday to mass, you are always accepted.

Orthodoxy can also work and it's more oriented to the misteries. Problem is if you are american, it's just a ethnic thing, not for you.

According to the bible, many churches are fakes.

So read the bible first (proverbs 30:5; genesis 9; Deut 6:4; Malachi 3:6 are important starting point, they protect from most attempts at deceit by pointing out important facets that mustn't be broken) and let it speak for itself (careful of people who talk about interpretation).

Yeah, blessings to you on your journey.

I have never been baptized and I used to eat those crackers all the time

This is why works based salvation is wrong. Faith alone, through Christ alone, by the Father's grace alone.

Read Pascal’s Pensées to get you into the mindset. Then read the Bible over and over until you learn the important principles (while practicing them as you read). Eventually, you will be drawn to whatever denomination fits you best. Your experience of actually reading the Bible will help you tremendously in deciding where to go to church. What’s most important though is simply doing what the Bible tells you to do, and not doing what the Bible tells you not to do.

Satanic Tenple