MGTOW has ruined relationships

Feminism turned women into men.
They become sluts and work machines.
Standards too high.
80/20 rule.
career first then maybe a kid one day.
Hypergamy floats.False rape, #metoo, no penalties for cheating, hiring quotas.
Family court, divorce court, duluth model police policies.
Social media and smart phones make it easy for her to play the field and keep her options open.
Women and never held accountable for anything they do that destroys mens lives and rapes their wallets.

men walk away.

OMFG WAS RONG WITH MANBBEEZ.

k.

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Why should we listen to some incel?

Maybe some are virgins but most pussy is not worth the effort anyway.

>MGTOW has ruined relationships
>MGTOW was a thing before feminism

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for me its once I really understood women don't truly love and only see men as a resource. Never been able to reconcile with that and probably never will.

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Tranny whore kike. Pass.

mgtow is a reasonable philosophy

I am continuously amazed by how many men really pretend not to be feminists but secretly side with them and denounce all the groups feminists wouldn't like

why would you not have a positive attitude to a group that makes reasonable claims, encourages men to independence, and opposes feminists? It's absurd.
Instead women and men who are nothing but lapdogs, both lash out against mgtows and actually look for reasons to oppose them. You're really trying hard.

I noticed roughly 6 years ago how sad it is to be part of this sex. Because picture this: I could understand if it was in the women's interest to insult men as incels or cucks, but why are men doing it to other men? You're selling to your fellow men, that they need women and ought to define their self worth over them, rather than telling them, that they don't depend on pussy, or love from women, or whatever else.

What the fuck kind of group am I part of tbqh.

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yes that sucks. unfortunately they dont love idealistically like men

I assume 90% of mgtow are people who were already in relationships and they failed for whatever reason, destroying their trust of the opposite sex and their desire to try anymore

And with that in mind I think who could get jealous of failed relationships? Seems petty so can only think its actual virgins/incels whatever theyre being called now who think thats a weak excuse to mgtow and start running their mouth because theyve never experienced it first hand

The only way I’ll do a relationship is if I can be a stay at home husband/dad.

If anything, most MGTOWs arent redpilled enough on women. Not dating them isnt enough, even female family members and coworkers are dangerous.

Because of social media women everywhere have turned into a massive hivemind more dangerous than anything that has existed before. Men especially normgroid men have a massive white knight/pussy hound instinct that actually is getting stronger because of how picky women are, and feminism gives them even more of an incentive to fuck you over to gain the approval of women. Racial and ethnic conflict makes it EVEN worse, as men everywhere rush to pose as defenders of their women from the outsider.

On websites like this you get a totally inaccurate picture of how redpilled men are when it comes to women. Sure MGTOW has probably reached a good fraction of the population in the West and Japan, but there are still plenty of bluepill simps out there and always will be as long as it wins them the approval of roasties. Not to mention beyond the Wests borders there are literally BILLIONS of nonwhite men who are patriarchal yes in the old fashioned sense but nevertheless WILL fuck you over and play the defender of the oppressed misunderstood woman in a New York minute. Women will always play men of different classes, social spheres, nationalities and races against each other and they will literally NEVER pay for it. Why? Because other men, ESPECIALLY high test guys willing to fight and kill will ALWAYS throw you under the bus to get a chance to breed because they love pussy more than other men (contrary to MGTOW fantasy, the manliest men in the biological sense are also the biggest simps because they have the most to gain biologically from getting along with women as well as the most to gain from shafting male competitors). There is literally no way off this ride.

SOCIALIZE WITH THE ROAST
YOUR ASS IS TOAST

>Because other men, ESPECIALLY high test guys willing to fight and kill will ALWAYS throw you under the bus
ya.
and this is why I said, it's just sad to be part of this sex. But they're not just throwing other men under the bus to breed, they do it because they have no spine. They'll never take a stand not even in the legal sphere where they are actually obliged to, will they deliver justice to other men.

Pretty pathetic tbqh.

This an extremely redpilled take. I see it this was as well. Also, I always got the impression MGTOWs were literal incels LARPing and blaming feminism and women for not being able to get laid. Their criticisms in that sense are legitimate, of course--women have probably rejected for those reasons--but they as men never would have been allowed to exist, even fifty years ago, because society pressured it out of them. I don't have much sympathy mostly because of the way they behave--they are children, essentially, whining and obsessing over otherwise immature interests(you know what I mean). Meanwhile, men who have rejected future women after they have been burned, I do not consider MGTOW, since those kind of men would, I would think, be mature enough to not begin an internet-movement ovet it. They would simply practice it in their daily life, and might come around if the right person came along.
Most infuriating is white knights and literal basedboys or fatasses who white knight women. They are ultimately the source of women being able to dismiss anyone but the proverbial Chad because of their willingness to suck up. These "men" are most abundant and for anyone who is more traditionally masculine, even in a reserved sense, present a social dynamics problem. They are essentially women with penises sucking up to other women for occasional puss time. This used to be reserved for true betas/losers but now seems like it is the majority.
Meanwhile, Chad fucks as he will(although having been friends with enough Chads it is not as glamorous as it seems--unless they are braindead they see the dystopic reality of modern women and are merely riding the tiger) while their wingmen and archetypical "lancer" types follow along to get part of the game but are probably suffering in the same ways. I think as men this kind of thing must be accepted to really get into the playing field at all nowadays, which can be a hard pill to swallow.

Spent some time browsing their forums and a very large chunk of them appear to be bitter men who have been royally fucked over by the family courts.

>I could understand if it was in the women's interest to insult men as incels or cucks, but why are men doing it to other men?

It took me years to work that out. It's because men value respect from their peers quite highly, and traditionally the quality of woman you could date and marry reflected on your status among your male peers. And so when MGTOWs start abandoning women and seeing them not as status symbols but huge legal and financial liabilities other men don't get our respect anymore, and that start to redefine what status is and what it means to have it.

If a lot of your self worth is predicated on having a female on your arm and men stop respecting that, then you're going to take a real hit to your sense of self worth and men take that super personally, it's like an attack on them, and that's why we see such emotionally drive lashing out at MGTOW who are otherwise peaceful men, minding their own business. I mean the irrational anger and out bursts we see from men all the time at MGTOWs is dare I say it, quite feminine.

Rationally other men should be encouraging other men to go their own way because taking out your competition leaves you with a better pick of the women, and that's what men want right? But that's not what we see in reality, in reality men are very upset about their peers abandoning the pursuit of women.

it's sad to see woman crying but unluckily we are at the point when we can't pretend everything is fine anymore.
Tesla was speaking about those problems 100 years ago. and it seriously got worse after sexual revolution.

normalization of casual sex leads to situation we have now. woman think there's nothing wrong when they fuck around while young because they belive man will have to settle down anyway and they'll have to pick some woman so if they all whore out it will be no difference overall.

but suddenly man start to just fuck young girls when they want to fuck around while ignoring those who want to settle down as those are usually not fun at all.
there is still big part of guys who dont get any fucking, but they don't want to become alimony machines and mostly they are used to being ignored and living away from females.

so eventually woman are left with nothing, and everything they have left is crying where did all the good man go or trying to make guys feel guillable or sorry enough to marry them which just stops working after we get rid of religious morality and idea of nation as nationalists belive in.

TL;DR feminists took away all reasons man ever had to marry woman. there is literally 0 reasons to marry free woman in XIX century. and if someone really needs to for personal reasons, the best choice is either buy some virgin teenager on blackmarket or from her parents.

I must add, I think is damaging men in another way. You have men who are traditionally masculine but simultaneously uncomfortable with the idea of the current hypergamous dating model and the cock-carosel it seems most college women, professional women, and so on, ride. So you get left with a paralyzed caste of in-between kind of men, who are not towering Greek Statues but are also not losers, fatasses, or Low-T Nu-Males. I think they're probably suffering the most, the kind of men who would've made up the common stock of western society, would have been comfortable with dating only a few women, if more than one at all, marrying at a healthy age, having children, working, and leading relatively steady(if at times seemingly unimportant or unglamorous) lives. They have now been degenerated, disowned, disenfranchized, and stepped over for nu-males(women with penises who can readily engage in female worship) and Chads(who readily provide dick). So they suffer in a kind of paralysis and don't know what to do(except read Jow Forums, of course).

Huh, wow. That's a perspective I never would have had.

I know a fair few MGTOWs of varying levels of being serious about it, and part of the red pilling is not just about relationships but also the white knighting for women. I don't have any good data on this by my own experience with MGTOW which is quite extensive, these men aren't white knighting for other women in their life, the general mantra is that the least female contact the better. There is literally nothing to gain from it.

youtube.com/watch?v=V1zFeHJzS5E

You understand, also to all who don't know what this feels like watch this short movie.
I can relate to a lot of this and it is an abstract feel

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>"traditional gril". As in oldest female tradition
>fucking one dude while trying to fuck another
Basically this thot's issue is she has to settle for Tyrone while waiting for Chad to discard his current slut

>I dont watch TV or any mainstream entertainment honestly what would i even talk to a girl about?
that. and more stuff about you being an asshole. they love it!

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mgtow is a symptom. egalitarianism and other communist ideologies are the cause. it would never be a thing if it weren't for feminism, #metoo and neglect rape type trash. when women became so empowered, a man has no more reason to go after her. and a tradcuck faggot will cry because muh babies!

here's a hint. you want the relationships go back to normal? repeal the 19th. take women's unearned rights away, and i promise you, mgtow will disappear and the white race will recover. but not before. and not because of (((them))), but because of women.

She's not a great beauty, but she's not really ugly. She's not fat and has long hair. Guarantee there are at least three guys she knows that would wife her up right now but she's blown them off because she was hot for some other guy. I've seen chicks complain about lack of intereested guys when I knew they'd recently turned down literal marriage proposals from decent-but-boring men.

>MGTOW has ruined relationships

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I’m right here. She isn’t looking in the right places

i know this is a giant echochamber and i'm jewish so my opinion doesn't count but...woman aren't psychopaths, like everyone says. nor do they just fuck the hottest guy they see on a wim. they are human. yes, some will do what i just said but that is the far minority.
your worldview is FUBAR and you should probably fix it. unironically go outside

>be mature enough to not begin an internet-movement ovet it
It's not a movement though, it's just a label that describes a set of behaviors in men. I was there quite near to the start when MGTOW was first being discussed in the early forums where, they had intro sections for men to introduce themselves and tell their story and what you found with the overwhelming number of men is that they had felt there was something wrong with society and they'd opted out of that stuff years or even decades ago. And that MGTOW is simply giving a name to something they already did.

In fact I'd argue that calling it a movement is antithetical to going your own way. if someone convinces you to avoid relationships then you're not really going your own way, you're just going the way someone else told you to. So certainly all of the early adopters of the label were simply naming this phenomena, this pattern of behaviour and then discussing this with other men.

The next wave of men in the sphere were more the friends of these men that had been burned and who saw the extreme fallout of divroce rape. The single dudes that had to support their friend when he's kicked out of his own home and told he cannot see his children. And then after that comes the boys who are maturing into men whose fathers went through that stuff. There's all these secondary people who aren't convinced into adopting the label by other MGTOW, they're just observing the problems in society and opting out before it happens to them.

And then finally there's guys who have been convinced through seeing discussion of MGTOWs online and have been convinced of this stuff. But what I don't really see a lot of is MGTOW actually advocating that other men should abandon women. I've seen 100's of these threads on Jow Forums and almost none of them are MGTOWs bullying or shaming other men into adopting their position. It's just an open discussion of what is going on, it's not some movement that we're recruiting for.

>x decides to not start house fires
>y can't do arson anymore
>x is at fault
What did user mean by this?

Cunt spotted

actually i'm not. but even if i was what the fuck is this logic supposed to be? if you are part of the group you are defending you can't defend yourself because of that?

That women are parasitic gangrenous holes

I remember thinking the same thing

What a fucking cunt. Is she willing to do anything? Fuck no. And what’s with that creepy fucking pony tail she keeps stroking? Gross.

Hypergamy is a real part of human female nature, but it's been put into dysfunctional overdrive in the last couple generations. One factor is social media. Fifty years ago she would have cried this into her diary, or to her mom or a couple close girlfriends. They would have listened and then suggested she go out with that nice boy down the street instead of chasing another Chad. If she kept making the same mistake they'd get tired of listening to it and tell her to shape up or she'd have no friends.
But now she posts this online and probably gets dozens or thousands of people telling her she's hot and can get any guy and shouldn't settle, pumping her expectations even higher.

I haven’t had the same experience. They usually hate on people who aren’t MGTOW.
One reason people are against the movement, and it has nothing to do with male competition, is the less white bales willing to get married, the less there will be in the future.
I wish you MGTOW lads would just take a trip to Latin America or Eastern Europe. It’s better than being single forever and never having kids

what changed your mind?

Males

My high school sweetheart cheated on me after 4 years and didn’t even tell me. I found out 2 months later. It was a week before our 4th anniversary. American women and probably all western women are whores. Why did you have to destroy our society?

I'm guessing personal experience from going outside.

No, just because "they're human" is a weak excuse, or rather a non-excuse, usually used by ladies. They are in fact psychopaths, and I'm far from being a kissless virgin. Their emotions and logic are completely and absolutely different than ours and as an extension, they are absolutely incompatible with the cultural systems that men have built, i.e. most if not all of them. Today they are in a position of power which they obviously cannot handle, as seen by their political actions, as well as their personal descent. Next to us and when equalized they are more or less alien, and almost always are traitors on some level or another - political, communal, personal. I just can't get why any men would defend them, are you a masochist?

>women are unable to form lasting relationships and create families
because of feminism

The truth is western men are pieces of shit just like western women. Chads are busy slaying pussy and don’t give a fuck about a long term love partner. Bears are bitter and disenfranchised and if they ever get a girl they are so emotionally broken and socially retarded they treat her like shit.

Based and jewpilled

>chad wont settle for her
>refuse to date betas
>WAAAAH WHERE HAVE ALL THE GOOD MEN GONE

Yeah, there are guys who want to make it a "movement" to sell clicks, but most guys who are effectively MGTOW probably don't even know the term. They've just stopped chasing girls and asking them out and buying them flowers and stuff because they've learned that system is broken and doesn't work anymore. There was always risk in it, that you might get turned down or your heart broken, but at least you understood it and sometimes it worked out. Now it doesn't work, and either they don't understand the new system or they do understand it and don't want anything to do with it.

ITT, Jews complaining about friendly fire

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feminists_by_ethnicity

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For those who didn't watch the video: this whore was dating two guys at the same time.

Well said, hexagram

You are a good jew.

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>All Jews are a literal monolith
Opinion disregarded

Yeah it took me several years of really trying to tease that out, it was always blatantly obvious why women would dislike MGTOW but regarding men, that had me stumped.

That's known as the red pill rage. Anger is a legitimate response to injustice and learning about this first hand takes a toll on men. The general advice from MGTOW is to move past that anger stage, and most men do manage that and learn to move on and learn from their mistakes.

This is made worse by females judging only 20% of men to be above average, so if you take 80% of males to be below average as your baseline and maybe you chop off the bottom 20% of useless men, you've got this huge swath of 60% in the middle who will struggle to have a good relationship and even when they do it will be with a woman who is scored lower than them AND that same women will feel bitter that she has below what she perceives to be the average guy. The old idea of mapping 1:1 for monogamy completely falls apart.

Yeah, no. Go and read about hypergamy in females. There's good evolutionary arguments for why women might be less loyal than men and more inclined to monkey branch and trade up. Women initiate like 80% of the divorces.

Picrelated was written by a british lawyer over a century ago, before the welfare state or no-fault divorce even existed. Mgtow doesn't go far enough lol.

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Rule 30: If you see "her" on Youtube, it's always a tranny.

you need female willingness to have babies, not males. one male can inseminate 1000 females to get 1000 babies, but 1000 males can't inseminate one female more than once.

the collapse of white and asian birthrates is coming from women becoming more hostile to men thanks to overinflated ego born out of the equality quasi-religion, not from men not wanting to.

eastern europe is also having below replacement birthrates. you can thank communism for that. we had the shit you're speaking of for decades. bachelor taxes? female empowerment? equality? no fault divorce? female always getting custody? shaming of men? all started in the 50s, enforced by the state and regional forms of kgb. eastern europe is not some white utopia. it's just a poor man's west.

>All Jews aren't raised on the Talmud

C'mon Moshe, I come here expecting much better Pilpul

rense.com/general86/talmd.htm

>To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

>A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.

>Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

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Or maybe we just like calling you a faggot because it's fun. Ever occam's razor that shit?

I wish we could go back to the days when Jow Forums didn't know what mgtow was. Tired of watching you guys talk out of your ass about stuff you found out about yesterday.

Eastern Europe is the place to find a traditional girl there

well my mother and sister always tried to comfort me when i'm sad and help me out, and i've seen a fair share of woman donate. also, i've seen a lot of old married couples
>Today they are in a position of power which they obviously cannot handle, as seen by their political actions
did i miss something big?

why is MGTOW such a prevalent phenomenon? you are complaining about a symptom of a symptom.

I think there are more divorcees who got rekt in the courts. Anyway they come off as repulsive weaklings, and I won't associate with them even if they have some good points.

kys Moshe

propaganda. our girls are as whorish as yours, only limited by poverty and no welfare state. the natural conclusion of communism, capitalism with nationalist tendencies doesn't undo social brainwashing. wherever egalitarian communist ideology takes root girls turn into sluts and the society inevitably goes the way of rome/mouse utopia.

Her: I just want someone to love me
Me: hi
Her: no not you.

oh GOD my feelings are so hurt by your amazing insult
i have never been insulted like this IN MY LIFE, how could you be so original? you should be an artist or comedian

So are the mossad kikes flag posting now because they think they can re-humanize themselves to Jow Forums?

I like you, you're spared the gas

what do the gook runes say on this

>Talmud
lmao now I really know you're a moron
Your mother and sister still grew relatively under male control (I can only assume) as did old women.
Also, I never said that they aren't capable of feminine positivity - pitying the young and sick and so on. Women always could be great wives and mothers, in the past. But without external control, they turn into what they are now.
It's not that these instincts are gone. But the pity towards the weak turns into pity towards your enemies, the need for protection becomes a desire for a nanny state, the need for love becomes the sexual revolution and its disastrous consequences. Today they are close to seizing true political power and enacting their bullshit fantasies into international standard and law.
And this is exactly what you missed - women as a voting block are responsible for almost all progressive policies in the Western world, including the state of Islam and Europe. When you give to an emotionally unstable, illogical group political power and freedom you get psychopaths.

MGTOW is a myth. Men went their own way since the dawn of time. Feminist revolution was WOMEN saying "fuck this shit" and going their own way.

lol remember when I used to call myself mgtow until i caught the betas like itt trying to piggyback on it.

Have you been here?

>Youre a moron

Great comeback, Yitzhak. Really living up to the 'Jewish Genius'.

I think I see now. You're basically a failure-Jew. Their own bottom of the barrel genetically and socially. Not smart enough or hooked in enough to play the Anti Goyim game, and as such youre subject to the usual (((anti western measures))) the chosen are employing.

Including isolation from females.
Fascinating. But honestly I cannot think of a more useless person than a broken Jew rejected by other Jews.

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how dense can you be? i live here. i can even take the pirate flag off for a second.

In the past I would've seen myself as part of this group. At some point I stopped giving a fuck and literally signed out from society. For the past few years I've been living as a true NEET, only going out to get groceries or occasionally visiting my mom's or hanging out with the few friends I still have.

I'm the kind of guy who isn't a big drinker and not really comfortable with large loud crowds of people. I'm also not interested in hook ups or women who engage in that. I had a bit of game in my teens but after my early twenties all the decent women just evaporated. All I could find were barhopping sluts with instagram in the place of their brain and smartphones seemingly glued to their hands. I have absolutely nothing to give this type of woman and they have nothing to give to me.

As it is I have no motivation to work because what I get from welfare is enough to live comfortably by myself. I have no reason to build wealth because I have no need for it. I am not going to get married and I don't see myself having any kids either. At this point I'd rather spend my days doing stuff I enjoy instead of slaving away for some corporate overlord's benefit to get a fraction of the profit to buy a home or whatever.

Sad but true.

fuck that bitch , whores will get lynched on the second coming of christ

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>Even this traditional girl who wants to settle down can't find a decent guy

Really, will she sign a pre-nup? Will she waive her right to divorce law?

What is wrong with cock carousel Thots?

>they are human. yes, some will do what i just said but that is the far minority.
>human
>human
>human

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Oh well. Society stopped caring about what men need long ago. Those fetus killers need to learn

The situation of the vid seemed like the guy gaslit her/lead her on. This is more about emotional manipulation than stuff like mgtow.

The feminist revolution was when men stopping giving a shit and let kikes control their wives/daughters

Marriage and relationships are ultimately for the community and women. Its insurance against our individual nature. As animals - Men will always want to get some side. Women will always want better. Both sexes having social contacts and behaviors to subjugate our nature and commit to a greater good was the whole point of marriage and the ostracism of promiscuity. Now we are hyper individuals. Especially since we import any and all cultures, we dont have a greater community to have commitment to. We've forsaken any sense of boundaries and whatever makes you feel empowered by your own merit is what is most important. As we see now, this hurts both of us but men have the "best" outcome if they have the amorality to ignore the greater good and live selfishly. Taking young women for the rest of his days and ignoring the seasoned women and their desire for family. Sure women believe they have the early game to fuck around and show their oats while they are young, pretty, and fertile but they lose in the end. They naturally yearn for a family I think a lot more than men do. If one of us loses, the community loses. Religion tried to warn us but we've moved on while still believing we haven't. We are in a limbo of believing "I want to get married!" while having 0 knowledge of why we get married in the first place so we get married for no good reason other than "This person makes me feel good" and that is not enough. That's why we very very rarely see a truly good marriage. I don't forsee this changing at all.

I'm not even a Jew retard, never touched the Talmud, never got my dick cut. But you're right, go bother someone else with your meme education autist. Nobody on Jow Forums is your stereotype of an orthodox kike.

That's why in the bee hive the queen sterilizes those bitches.

>Nobody on Jow Forums is your stereotype of an orthodox kike.
Well except some North American flags I suppose.

This is honestly the only reason to be MGTOW. I'm not mgtow but I understand men who get fed up after getting bent over in divorce court. Still not worth giving up finding a good woman who will be a mother to your children though.

Surely the fact that (((you))) are here making your claim is proof Jow Forums is not an echo chamber.