I'm going to try and convince you this was a good thing. Maybe even a great thing. And regardless of whether or not it was arson, accident, or anything else. Believe me, don't believe me, either way, hear me out:
To begin, we're going to have to talk about the differing causes of revolution, namely right and left wing revolution. All revolutions share a single causal circumstance: the conditions of living, for whatever reason, must be bad enough that a significant part of the population sees the risk involved in armed uprising as equally, or perhaps more, bearable to continued existence under the current system. Generally, for the revolution to succeed, this part of the population must outnumber the part of the population that is willing to take up arms in defense of the current system.
For Marx, the archetypal left wing revolutionary, revolution arises from the workers throwing off the chains of their class and uniting against the upper classes. But history and reality did not bear this out. Why? Simply put, the system that the working class in western civilization labored under improved their position over time. Each successive generation did better than the one before it. This meant that the portion of the population that was willing to risk their lives to overthrow the system did not outnumber those who would risk their lives in defense of it. As a consequence, Marxist rhetoric fell mostly on deaf ears. As such, no such left wing Marxist revolution ever occurred in an industrialized country.
However, they did occur in two large pre-industrial agrarian countries, China and Russia. This is because, in a country where the vast majority are not just working class, but essentially serf-class, who know nothing but grueling toil, day in, day out, spanning back generations, it is much, much easier to sell a revolution that promises something new, something progressive, something equalizing. The industrial worker is not willing to kill his boss, because he knows one day, he could be the boss. And if not him, his children. The peasant serf has no such hope.
***Simply stated: Left wing revolutions occur where the population has known nothing but misery, and seeks to transcend their miserable position and install something entirely new. ***
So then, what about the other side of the coin? If history did not bear out Marx’s theory, let’s take a look at what actually happened with his proletariat. The revolution of the industrialized working class was that of Adolph Hitler. It was right wing in the sense of recognizing hierarchy and rejecting equality (the original dimension of the right/left dichotomy), and violently anti-communist. Here, it was not the misery of their existence (though they were miserable) that drove them to overthrow the system they lived under. Rather, it was a deep and profound sense of nostalgia. Of better days in the past. Of decline.
Life was bad. But it hadn’t always been bad. Where the left wing revolution relies on a population that has never known anything better and pines for something drastically new, the right wing revolution comes from a population that seeks to return to the glory days of the past and halt their decline. The right wing revolution is the revolution of the working and middle classes, who know that their systems worked for them before, and can work for them again. They just have to put a bullet in the right people.
Liam Long
So then, between right and left wing revolution, which do you think is more applicable to our current situation? It should be fairly obvious, but if revolution is to occur in Europe or America, it WILL be right wing in nature. Because better days are behind us. We know what power and prosperity and glory taste like. And eventually, once things get bad enough, we will fight to get them back. We’re not there yet though. Germany faced a decade of economic collapse before it rose from the ashes of Weimar. It is likely we will have to go through the same thing.
But what does all this have to do with Notre Dame burning? It should be clear that though we’re on the right track, things will have to get worse, a lot worse, before they get better. In the mean time, anything and everything that makes the average European say “I remember when (bad thing) didn’t happen.” is a blessing. Simply put: nostalgia becomes a weapon, and an extremely powerful one at that. > “I remember when our national monuments didn’t burn down in front of us.” > “I remember when our grocers spoke French.” > “I remember when our children weren’t murdered at concerts” > “I remember when my daughter wasn’t raped and called a white whore”
And on and on and on. Of course, losing great works of cultural heritage is always a tragedy. But I urge you to see the light at the end of the tunnel, regardless of how far away it may seem. After all, we built it before, and we can build it again. We can even build more and better monuments. All that’s required is a bit of looking backwards.
really good post OP. hope this actually gets lots of hits; some big posts get lost in the bullshit. great writing!
Noah Lewis
This user speaks the truth, all rightly guided anons should read. But for the lazy, in short, Commie recolutions happen when the population was poor and miserable forever. Right wing when once great societies feel decline and long for glory days.
Notre Dame burning is a good thing because it reminds us of better days
Lucas Hall
bump for an abnormally high quality post
Chase Cruz
But user, what do we do about the fact that the powers that be are flooding foreigners into our country as fast as they can? What if, by the time the natives are ready to revolt, they're outnumbered by foreigners?
Carson Hernandez
It would be a right wing revolution in this case. Everyone sees western civilization as something that is in decline and they fear the rise of China and foreign powers.
Tyler Collins
Bump
Levi Flores
>It should be fairly obvious, but if revolution is to occur in Europe or America, it WILL be right wing in nature. Unless it's a bunch of far-Leftists, Muslims and gibsmedat illegals who don't get enough money from the government after the next economic crisis and start to fight against their imaginary white supremacist regime.
> In the mean time, anything and everything that makes the average European say “I remember when (bad thing) didn’t happen.” is a blessing. Simply put: nostalgia becomes a weapon, and an extremely powerful one at that. European landmarks didn't catch fires before the Second World War?
David Sullivan
That’s the question that must be addressed
Jace Hughes
>Everyone sees western civilization as something that is in decline and they fear the rise of China and foreign powers. Half of your own country wants to destroy Western civilization, whatever this is. And I have no problem with China. Why should I.
Noah Jackson
By the way, how much money is France government receiving for the rebuilding? I heard they didn't have enough money for restructuring before the burning and now they surpassed the required budget! Also is it true that the gargoyles were taken away before the fire?
Julian Long
>this was a good thing. Maybe even a great thing. Correct
There will be no revolution because faggots like you lack the courage of your convictions to ever actually do anything other than sit on your useless asses and shitpost and troll and pretend to care about anything other than your immediate entertainment. You are sheep, every last one of you. Your worthless and meaningless responses merely prove it
Julian Mitchell
Not sure how much they are allocating towards it, but I don’t think money will be a problem (pic related). The important question is *who’s* rebuilding it and in the what image - the original purpose or some bullshit (((multi-religious worship space)))
They won't manage it in time. Their project is already falling apart before their eyes, and people are angry at them for the attempt. And even if they did, how many foreigners does it take to equal a single armed and purposeful westerner? How many Mexicans do you know that can build an F-35? How many Africans do you know that can sight a rifle? How many muslims do you know that can put a man in space?
It does not matter how many there are. It matters how many are willing to fight, able to kill, and ready to die. They might outnumber us. They always have, in the grand scheme of things. We took the world regardless.
if something happen in europe (because america is cucked ) it will happen either in france or italy.
Cant speak for italia but here 40% of the people support a revolution to change the system and shit really look like weimar germany.
The only thing that maintain the system is that economy is bad not horrible so people can survive and thats why the red line hasnt been crossed.
If shit happen with the economy france is going full 1789.
Kevin Cox
>implying the left can’t revolt in response to decline >implying “I remember when I used to get welfare and my children weren’t starving” doesn’t foster a desire for immediate change.
Nice try but ultimately stupid to label your two causes for revolt as “right” and “left”
Lucas Morris
All those years writing reports for the FBI really paid off OP.
Ayden Cox
Bullshit, even when the right has people try to step up and provide some kind of organization or leadership we tear them down just as fast as we can. Even Hitler had many right wing detractors working against him. People talk about the left eating their own, but rarely acknowledge that the right are ten times worse at it.
Good point, but it’s probably rooted in paranoia of (((traitors))). Everyone has their guard up and not without justification
Cooper Perez
Indeed they didn't have enough money before and now they are full, couldn't have the government or some glownigger agency actually planned it? Looks kinda suspicious
Julian Clark
>if something happen in europe it will happen either in france
Of course, we all knew France would be the first western nation to officially surrender to the foreign hordes.
Liam Adams
I would like to just add that I think we are closer to this than anyone imagines. It is hard for us who live inside the system to really see how close we are. Ask anyone 80+ y/o, ask any ww2 vet, and they will tell you how much worse the world has become. It is almost sort of cliche, but the economic collapse that is inevitably coming very soon could be the spark that sets it all off.
Oh right. Almost forgot about our nationalist and authoritarian fellow EU member, the Spanish State. Its main trading partner is Nazi Germany and it imports most of its cotton from The Confederate States of America.
Zachary Howard
Doesn’t mean we don’t need organization. We do, but we can’t be taken down by traitors.
Juan Reyes
It is rooted in immaturity same as the left. I mean, we went for Obama, who was taking this country hard left to fucking Trump! An undeniable step in the right direction, but....His politics weren't a carbon-copy, 105% DNA match for some people on the right, so they reject him and say "fuck it" and push for full on accelerationism. Do you think those are mature people? Hitler had the exact same problem, but he overcame it with a military structure to politics....he created the Hitler Youth and had Nazi Party members take oaths....with that he exchanged specific political belief with belief in an organization instead. You didn't have to belief that what the org was doing was right, you did not need to agree that it was the best method, you sometimes didn't even need to know what it was doing, you just had to believe in the org itself. The same way a soldier in the Army feels about the actions and decisions the Army makes in war. The soldier may not agree, but he is content to follow his orders because he believes that the end-state will be worth it. This is how you organize the right, not around ideals but around loyalty to those that serve the ideals.
Nathan Ross
here. This is turning into a great thread btw.
Jonathan Bell
Hitler also correctly realized that when an old system or order is dying or is killing itself as a result of its own incompetence (to quote Hitler himself. "The old order of unbridled economic liberalism had ran its course. The bourgeoisie refused to acknowledge its time was over") that its not enough to just turn back to tradition but that the tradition has to be embodied in a fresh way by a leader or a group that gives life to the traditions. Without this process, it'd be the same as walking forward with your head turned facing behind you. You'd be going forward technically but you'd blind to whats in front of you (the future). The best example of embodying tradition while giving it fresh life is the swastika. It kept the old colors of the German Reich )red, white, black) but with a new symbol of the German people. It is traditional but with a new life given to it. Hitler also pointed out that any attempt to "go back" to earlier time periods wholesale will fail as the times of old arose naturally and weren't artifically constructed for the sake of "returning to tradition". To that end, right wingers have to bring tradition into the modern world in accordance with the current times. How this will look is anyone's guess.
I am and old, old fag in every sense of the word but came off line to bump this. Normally can't do this because Tor captchas block any post I try to make and I am an investment banker with four white kids.
Remember to protect yourselves you fuckers but read this post.
...also if anyone knows how to defeat the cloudshare captcha on Tor pls let a 50+ guy know desu
> right wingers have to bring tradition into the modern world on that note OP IS A FAGGOT
Michael Williams
While I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said, people are jumping off of the TrumpTrain for the right reasons - mainly MIGA. If they weren’t, that would be a bigger problem, because they would be blindly following a leader who does not uphold their own interests. I think there are several people out there who the right rightfully looks to for leadership, for example Richard Spencer, and even if someone may disagree with a specific thing he says, they trust and stand behind him.
Benjamin Fisher
Well, compare it to the leftist revolutions, France? 300 years and going strong. China, Cuba, NK, Vietnam. Hell, the fucking US. All historical movement has been leftwards there is not a single exception to this, ever.
Aaron Bailey
Very good post OP, I have some thoughts but I have to collect them
Watch this jew talk about his holohoax survivor grandma tell him how she see's the same thing with jews in New York today (over a decade ago now actually) with Jews in Germany
This video will make you believe we are way way closer to this than anyone realizes
Jayden Thompson
Let’s assume a right wing revolution kicks off. What are the brown people going to do? The POC are poorer, angrier, and less inhibited with violence. Now is when they’re at their most dangerous as they’re behavior goes mostly unchallenged. Muslims, blacks, Hispanics and Asians aren’t going to band together and fight for some side/cause any more than they are now.
Voting, collecting welfare and committing disproportionate amounts of crime is really all they can do collectively to fight white people. It’s just a matter of whether or not something will spark conflict.
Successful doesn't mean permanent. Rome was successful, the EU is not. Hitler's revolution was successful. His ultimate plan was not. It is not the ideology that decides the permanence of a thing, but its ability to defend itself against others. In the end, Hitler lost not because he was right wing or left wing or any particular political position, but because he warred with two larger, more powerful countries at the same time.
Understand then that, were a revolution to occur here, there are no larger, more powerful countries than the US to save you. We are not trapped between the US and Russia. We own the world's oceans, and in a world where trade is ubiquitous, that means we decide who eats and who doesn't, who has access to oil and who doesn't, and who lives in the modern world and who doesn't.
The US and Russia saved you from Hitler. Who is going to save you from the US?
Cooper Diaz
utter brainlet
Zachary Torres
This is also a really good point I have thought a lot about. We need to be in the SPIRIT of tradition, but not be rigidly married to its ideas such that we become inflexible in the face of modernity.
Kayden Bell
>The US and Russia saved you from Hitler. Who is going to save you from the US? Basically once Americans decide to gas the jews, we're not gonna be their captive population anymore, they are going to be ours. The proverbial "you're trapped in here with me"
Joshua Jenkins
How would you, or any other anons, suggest going about that?
Parker Baker
Spain
James Perez
Already said that, user didn’t like it
Benjamin Ramirez
bumping No were just pragmatic enough to realize that until the normie masses are ready to revolt, there is no point of us doing anything because it wont accomplish anything
The US has dismantled most of the worker protections it ceded in the early 20th century but this still counts as "moving left" because refusing to bake gay cakes is illegal or something
David Perez
Fascism would like to have a word with you, as would many Islamist revivals.
Joshua Turner
If a revolution occurs in the US, a number of the things you mentioned will no longer be true. Furthermore, it absolutely has everything to with ideology. Ideology selects for various factors. It's idiotic to assume that leftist methods will also work for right-wingers, you have to think asymmetrically. But whatever. To paraphrase Moldbug, not all right-wingers are idiots, but most idiots are right-wingers.
A large reason for this is because of the greater success we have now, as a leaderless internet horde, than previous generations have had in the past with traditional leaders. Leaders create a global point of failure, and if the leader is bought, or is controlled opposition, it kills a movement far worse than no leader at all. This can still be seen in "right wing" institutions today, eg the Catholic Church. All they need to do to subvert the entire institution is to subvert the leader. The left eat their own, but the right typically only punches up at those that the media proclaim as "the leader" when they want to attack a movement, but can only find dirt on a single high profile "member".
Leaders become necessary when there is significant resource investment on the part of a movements members, since their role is to reassure the investors by providing a point of accountability. In low investment scenarios (eg information warfare), leaderless becomes better, since it avoids the issue of a global failure point.
Matthew Peterson
this
Jayden Nguyen
>once things get bad enough, we will fight to get them back Some will, that's the yellow vests. Most will simply adapt to an ever worsening situation. That's what humans do.
Most of the masses won’t follow you, and you don’t need them. Revolution is a spectator sport. You need a radicalized minority with good leadership and a plan
Ian Campbell
Not convinced we can rebuild it better desu, modern culture bqing what it is. Maybe in 100+ years but not while any of us are alive
Anthony Gonzalez
>how would you suggest doing that By building brand recognition through the internet - via memes, apparel, trad/dash wave type stuff - and through people demonstrating/speaking. One tangible example is the far right European Spring currently underway. It varies from country to country, but the general sentiment is one of preserving culture and subsequently tradition, even if that’s not explicitly stated. Flags like the circle and lambda are going to be powerful symbols as they gain more recognition over these next few years (liken to the swastika) and maybe in time, once there is a large enough following, a leader will rise up and mobilize it.
realistically a right wing revolution will take the form of some larger or smaller part of the military declaring martial law when they feel that they could get away with it physically and when conditions have become bad enough economically and politically that most people would support them.
Aiden Morales
E
Michael Russell
>No were just pragmatic enough to realize that until the normie masses are ready to revolt, there is no point of us doing anything because it wont accomplish anything If you haven't figured out by now that 99% of the masses are stupid beyond fixing and that they will follow whoever they think is the most popular among their peers, then you need to go back to plebbit where you belong with the other sheep
Nolan Robinson
changing culture always starts with philosophy first, then a new form of art. We already have vaporwave but we need a new form of architecture
Justin Butler
Right, fascism, the predominant modern ideology.
Evan Nelson
the average gutter black in the ghetto have no ability to plan, execute or improvise when the simplest plan fails.
the average middle class black/hispanic is 95-105IQ and whites are 105-115IQ, they've spent their whole lives seeing their country devolve from their youth and spent it planning, executing and improvising to get and stay ahead.
You are right and I agree with your assertions, but at some point this thing has to turn into real and meaningful action, pushing beyond cyber space and into meat space, otherwise my original assertion in this thread is correct
Jackson Robinson
Only the left will be out numbered whole the extreme right will be bursting at the seems. You can never discount whites.
Far right conservative whites exhibit k-selection and therefore are more loyal, protective, and supportive of offspring, family and racial group. magaimg.net/img/7nfh.jpg
And despite all the Jewish brainwashing and trickery, we are waking up unlike never before and realizing we are part of a much larger group. IT IS OK TO BE WHITE. magaimg.net/img/7heq.jpg
The Jews hate to see a group superior to theirs create the wonders of the world. magaimg.net/img/7nf1.jpg
The reality is that there will come a time in the very near future when the white man wakes up and decides he's done taking shit. The world will change forever. magaimg.net/img/7h4p.jpg
>Furthermore, it absolutely has everything to with ideology. Ideology selects for various factors. No, you're thinking of reality. Stalin is better understood as a russian head of state than as a communist. Hitler is better understood as a german head of state than a fascist. And FDR as an American head of state rather than a liberal democrat.
Ideology is drastically overrated. It can provide a spark, or impetus for change, but it cannot sustain a nation, and it cannot win wars. A spark is nothing without a source of fuel to burn. Had Germany had access to American resources and land, they would have won, regardless of their professed ideology. We would be conversing in German instead of English. The US didn't win because of liberal democracy, it won because we had the most steel, the best ships, and the most defensible territory. The sword is mightier than the pen, always and forever.
Zachary Parker
While I already know the things you talk about I appreciate the posts. However you did forget one possibility.
When riots break out over living conditions, the police and military will stay on the governments side (at least at first). Should tensions rise and the military/police are looked at as oppressors, communism can easily arrive as the answer for the people. It creates a very easy line of bourgeoisie vs the proletariat, as most protesters will be on the poor side and see the police/military as defenders of the bourgeoisie. Not the mention how tight the right's hands are currently tied due to association of the hard right as "nazis".
That's the sacrifice that gave us Notre Dame. It wasn't for the foundation layers, the masons, their grand kids, or their grand kid's grand kids. It was for the far future.
Adrian Cruz
Interesting point about nostalgia fueling right wing movements. That must be a major factor in the left wing/neoliberal attempts to censor and rewrite history and their constant quest to project the past as a barbaric, evil and primitive thing to be shunned and spat upon.
By the Grace of God, I hope that since so many private and foreign donors are giving to it, that it is strictly a reconstruction in it's original image, with threat by massive backers to pull the funding if they fuck with it in any way.
>The sword is mightier than the pen I agree, though something is becoming more readily apparent, especially with the introduction of modern memetic culture war: the pen guides the sword. We are already engaged in a cold revolution, and both sides are currently attempting to gain a favorable position before committing to anything definite.
Good posts, OP
Liam Murphy
These are what was taken from us. It's time to take them back.