How do I accept Trans

it's the same shit as calling a high school teacher "mister" or "sir" in order to make them happy.

you don't need to believe in your heart of hearts that they are socially above you, it just makes the whole social interaction go more smoothly if you perform pleasantries.

Same thing with trans. You don't have to BELIEVE that someone is a woman, if that's what you're saying by "accepting." However, it's increasingly becoming expected that you perform recognition of someones attempt at a gender in order to be polite. You don't have to believe it, it's just the new polite thing to do.

This shouldn't be a big fucking deal unless you're literally autistic, which I wouldn't put past anyone on this website.

I mean, it feels like the attention whores are what making things worse. But am I to judge? I am an attention whore myself just not LGBT. I just dont like it when something is changed because of a false pretenses of "being on the right side of history." Its ok to be accepting but then the ones they accept immediately shame any critical thought.

I see, i can understand this then. However when it comes to the bathrooms I am not gonna say. I am stepping back from that one cuz I cant think of a solution to both sides problems.

I wouldn't say that

The issues seems to come down to what you think is worth critical thought.

As a person who does not experience it, and has little experience in diagnosing it, I don't think it is the place of any rando to give their opinion on it

Worse yet, for someone outside of that pool to 'critically question' someone from within can come across incredibly hostile.

Asking open ended questions can be good, but not everyone wants to answer

But really, when it comes down to what other people want to do with their bodies, I don't think anyone has the right to tell them
"No, you can't do that"

Also, I'd be careful to label 'attention whores'
Some people are naturally more flamboyant, or prefer being that way, and attract a lot of attention
There's nothing inherently WRONG about garnering attention, on purpose or not

Its your opinion on WHY those people do it that can cause problems

Basically, don't assume you know anything, and don't judge

You don't have to.

At all.

It's a thing.

If you're not part of it, then it's a thing you're not part of, so just wish it well and move on.

No one cares who you want to have sex with unless they're part of the group you want to have sex with, and then they have the ability to say "yes" or "no" it.

What's so confusing about that?

I don't know if you need to accept their shit. I never thought about gender before they brought it up. Gender is just a euphemism for sex, separating the two is weird and unnecessary. There is obviously a difference between boys and girls beyond genitals, but it manifest so early it cannot be societal. I work with kids and they clearly want different things but if we accept the concept of "gender" we start to put a bunch of stereotypes onto these kids that isn't necessary.
Take someone like Danica Patrick.
It is so fucking cool that a girl does these things. If it were today, the parents would pump her full of testosterone and glue a penis on her because she was acting too much like a man. Why can't she just be into racing and shit as a girl? I guess I just find it too sexist of an ideology.
A man can be feminine and a girl can be masculine. Should we transition every butch twink out there? It seems insane.

Gender isn't actually playing a large role in our lives.
The reason women reject men isn't because of gender, it is because men wants something instead of offering something.
I mean look at Jow Forums. The OP is usually a piece of shit because he comes into your life with a need. He needs you to tell him something, he needs an answer etc. Then people tell him to fuck off.
But when people offer something here, they usually are met with positive feedback as you can either take it or leave it.
I think trans people get hate for the same reason. They come into your life with a need for you to change your perspective of gender because their illness is more important. Then people tell them to fuck off. If they stopped making a big deal about themselves, and contributed something, they could get praise for that thing.

>But really, when it comes down to what other people want to do with their bodies, I don't think anyone has the right to tell them
>"No, you can't do that"
You see here is what I am confused on, its not from me to tell them what they can do with themselves. Whats me is criticizing in response to a trans critism things I enjoy only to be told I am the bad guy for standing up to someone's criticism they made first.

thank you for keeping an open mind. for my part, I completely understand your trepidation around bathrooms. it's a weird situation that arises because of arbitrary reasons (in other words, we have to talk about genders in bathrooms because our buildings are constructed so that you are often shitting in mostly open air next to someone which is fucking ridiculous).

Speaking as the most left-leaning windbag you'll ever find, the correct take on the bathroom debate is "yeah, it's unfortunately a complicated issue without a simple answer." however it's such a fucking weird place for both sides of the debate to decide as the place where they will both die on.

For example, I don't use public bathrooms if I can help it, and most people don't either. Nor am I in a hurry to sign up to the YMCA and go look at old dude scrotes and smell butthole and armpit and get athletes foot. My favorite bathrooms, and the bathrooms that every building should strive for, is isolated stalls so I don't have to interact with anyone while I'm squeezing peanut butter out of my IBS-laden asshole.

If a trans person should want to join a group of disgusting naked people that are the gender that they are performing, without the same genital makeup, then, well, it's a complicated issue without a simple answer.

>How do I accept
You can´t save them all. They may ruin their own lives, be a drain on society and a shame to their parents and friends but thats just the way it is and some people are always going to be their own demise regardless of what you do.
If there are any you know personally, get them to question if the problems they have are actually related to their gender or if fixing them in some other fashion would be more effective. Anything beyond that - its their own responsibility, not yours.

It was not that, its was how criticizing, a specific group with in the lgbt, use more negativity than positivity to get people on their side. The more i talk to people about the more i learn that a small group with in a much larger group is just lashing out. I mean the cause is good but some are purposely looking for a fight.
Even though right now some can percieve that I am doing that now, when i really am not trying too.

youtu.be/T13se_2A7c8

Sounds like an asshole
Some people just be like that

But its happening all over. I mean i get told i am the asshole for not just nodding my head and thinking for myself.

I do think some of those gender critical people have a point when they say that transness is just adopting cultural stereotypes of the other gender. I mean what does it even mean to feel like a woman? How do you as a biological male know what this intrinsic female quality is and that you're experiencing it? Is there really a certain formation of the brain that makes you want to have long hair and wear dresses etc? Maybe we'd be better off just loosening our expectations on the behaviour of both genders and making those that don't conform to one feel like they must belong to the other?

Being honest with each other more?

It is a cost issue, but I agree.
At my university, we have a long row of toilets with a brick wall between each "stall" it is just enough space for a sink too, so it is perfect. They aren't gendered because we already separate people in areas of buildings by gender (or field of study but same shit) so it is already mostly male in the engineering building.
We used to have a female stall and a male stall and we just used whatever was free.
I was at a festival last week and they had these portable ones and they didn't need to label them for women. Men went to the gutters in the back and women stood in line for the stalls. It isn't a gender question, it is clearly a "stand or sit" question.

As for bathrooms / locker rooms, now it is complicated. I never enjoyed them either and it was weird when a father brought their girl into the men's bathroom. That stuff is something people easily can plan around so it doesn't happen. Not going swimming or wherever these bathrooms exist is very easy to do.
An individual not doing these things is a better solution than forcing these things to stop.

I mean that there are a lot of bullshit rules about how men and women are and how they should look and behave. And the idea that you're actually a different gender inside kind of buys into that. Why can't you look and act "feminine" and still be male? If we did somehow abolish all these ideas people would still transition into something else if they wanted to, and hopefully without stigma. I just think getting hung up on gender essentialism to justify a trans identity is a losing battle.

I think its because some people want that title as a woman or man in various ways. What you described was queer. But its now things have gotten too complicated for its own good. Its like teaching george washington morals and ethics while he is busy fighting a war.

You nailed it.
Dressing up in underwear for a photoshoot after a transition means you just want attention. It isn't something all women do, nor is it something all women want to do. A trans woman will always stand out because they try so much more to be female than women do. It is so important to them that people believe they are women too. A lot of women don't do all this stuff. It is just an evolved blackface. Smashing a bunch of stereotypes together in order to entertain. Because you think everything is you do is more important if you do it "as a trans woman" or something.

>It is just an evolved blackface.
Woah i dunno not that far. But i can say for the people in the industry its about wearing cool clothes and being photographed in a professional setting. Not everyone does big art just to be famous, some do it because they love it.

Have you considered that people get pissed at your opinion because it may be a bit underdeveloped?
And your lack of experience shows clearly in how you speak about it

Like that time that a 50 year old white politician from some middle state in America refused to take period products OFF of the luxury item list because he genuinely believed women could 'hold' their blood in and just release it like piss in the toilet

Maybe this is a topic you shouldn't voice your opinion on, especially when other more involved people are already doing that

Just choose someone to support

I think its unfair that it would be considered underdeveloped with out knowing who I am and unfair to be criticizing one thing and not expecting it back at all. I am not talking about name calling and shit I mean just difference of opinion that turns into something else entirely. I may not experienced everything you did but you didnt either when it came to me specifically. There is an issue where they are attacking their own because they are not pc enough.

But it is inherently sexist isn't it?
They are saying "I am a woman, see I am in the kitchen, look at my tits" and if you aren't okay with that, you are a bigot.
It is undermining what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. All girls are not bell delphine, and assuming they are is what I take issue with. How is this not the same as blackface?

I didn't say that it WAS
I said it MIGHT BE, and that may be why you're having so much negative feedback when you share it.

The fact that you took a general statement that personally is giving me an idea of why these arguments are happening

You seem to hold your own experience in higher authority than others
Your first reaction to my suggestion was to get defensive, not consider it.

Think about that for a minute, and I think it'll help you a lot in the future

You are also saying 'they' a lot. It sounds like you've had some bad experiences and have assumed thats how everyone is

Because as much as a lot of trans people feel that way, most of them are just trying to be recognized by VERY old fashioned governments right now
Most of which operate on female and male

Its a lesser or two evil, things, but the lgbtq community has been discussing this issue

>How is this not the same as blackface?
Black face was a movie to purposely push fear and hate against african americans.
These are people who feel they are the gender they describe themselves to be.

Yeah i think you are right. Its just I went through some really bad shit as a kid and went through similar shit these people described and i had no one stand up for me aside a very few. I guess when i looked at it, I felt really jealous how many people got support when all i got was trips to the doctor and being made fun of and yelled at when i would complain. I mean i know what its like to be the unwanted or unaccepted. Not in your way but in a way that I am shunned. I was told i was not allowed to go places or be with people because no one wanted me there. Yet when i see other people given such praise when a specific persons ignorant message gets praised i just feel like im getting torn up inside. Like i did what i was forced to do and put a smile on my face while doing it, while others are praised for outrage word vomit. I guess i am saying is that the people are allowed to be outraged and speak their minds and I cant because I am white and straight. So i get jealous that these people are more protected because of popularity rather than being understanding to everyone.

Hahah, I'm not transgender mah dude, I'm just an ally

And actually that sounds exactly like the issue
People that have been bullied end up internalizing transphobia, then this situation happens

There are a LOT of transpeople that seriously hate themselves because their past experiences fucked their head

And dude
Almost everyone goes through some kind of painful ostracization
Its just that you can't see it in other people so much as yourself

I would take a step back and instead of viewing it as you vs them, view it as all of us vs the very same type of bullshit that made your, and my, life hell for a very long time

So it sounds like you've solved it
Its not a lack of getting it, its jealousy projected into aloofness

Seriously, good on you for being introspective enough to see this
You're on a good way user

you dont need to be friendly or anything just say hello bye here your fries dawg and covertly laugh at them as you would do with any retard(not in their face thats rude)

A lot of this is political motivated too.
Maybe it isn't about spreading hatred for women, but we need perspective to really analyze the motives of these people.
About 0.2% of the population suffers from gender dysphoria, but it is such a huge talking point for some reason.
A man beating women at women's sports and claiming to be a woman isn't about what description he feels is appropriate. It is just taking advantage of the fact that people will defend his right to cheat.

Doesn't most of them want to be recognized as the other gender?
There is no reason to change any laws to do this. If you can pay for a shitload of surgery to look and act like another sex, most people will just accept this and think of you as this sex instead. This is not the issue.
The issue is that once you can do that, you start to play a character of some female stereotype in order to changes people's perception that this is how you act as a woman. It is this character I take issue with. In many cases, it is clearly a man's version of a woman he is playing.
20 years ago, cross dressing was exclusively linked with prostitution. Men creating a version of a woman they want and it should be offensive to most women that this is how they see them.

It isn't just some people trying to live their lives and then the evil conservatives come and drag them into the other bathroom and bully them for having a mental disorder. It is so dishonest to suggest that every time someone isn't 100% onboard with your point of view.

>most people will just accept this and think of you as this sex instead.
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

As I said before user
>the lgbtq community is aware of this, and its an ongoing discussion

But it isn't something that people who have trouble 'understanding' transfolk usually want to talk about

Here, go join the youtube comments
youtube.com/watch?v=EdvM_pRfuFM

>A man beating women at women's sports and claiming to be a woman isn't about what description he feels is appropriate. It is just taking advantage of the fact that people will defend his right to cheat.
I think there are limitations to it, because in the olympics its already separated into 3. There was an issue that this mixes up the hermaphrodite and transgender recently. What ever it maybe, we could have an all division competition.

On your last part i think that you see the after affects of a full transition, how they go about it is what they were doing initially already. Its just that some people dont realize they become a stereotype when they follow a certain perasonal logic for a time.

So wait... are there transexuals vs transgenders i thougjt they were the same thing? Or is it something else when they say trenders. Is it people who do this for a trend as the word proclaims or a double meaning behind it.

girls will befriend the effiminate gay dude with the earing and tight pants

they do not befriend the edgy autistic fat faggot with a hoodie and pink hair and badly painted nails

trannies would literally not be bullied if they realize only a select group of people with good features will ever pass and even then sounds like a bad deal

So in the end, because of the ideal body of both sex, the ones we see getting assloads of attention are the fair inbetween.

yes and no
as a completely bullshit estimate outta my head i would say that even trannies that pass would still be ostracized by about 65% of males
considered undatable by 90% for no other reason that it used to have a dick i can't say for chicks but i would assume they're more acceptable since the "hes a faggot lmao" thing its only present in dudebro culture

however its important to note that only very few pass as woman/dudes so they will be always the person on which you feel pity for but not enough to actually interact with them

I have to admit my initial feelings are that I wouldnt date one either. I guess i am shallow in that regard i guess. But I also can feel uncomfortable with sex in general and am attracted by a certain type. I mean she could have everything but turns out she is trans and thats a deal breaker for me.

so that is not your problem its theirs for falling into the modern trend
i assume trannies are going to be the 2010s thing like the scene girls shit in the 2000s or frosty spikes in the 90s with tats you can hide your shit you can get a hair cut etc but cutting your dick is forever

Or the gay fad, metrosexual, or the racial fads.

Is there no way for a woman to become a man?

bluntly
not with our current level of technology no

however there are other things in the world you should be able to enjoy like everyone else

Ok i figure

They are mentally ill, but the scientific consensus seems to be that the best outcomes are achieved by humoring them, so that's what we do as a society. It's like when the retarded kid in class gets the school spirit award. No one thinks trans women are actually literally women just like no one thinks the retarded kid demonstrated the greatest example of school spirit, but we're not going to say that because sometimes in civilized society you bite your tongue for the mental well being of others.

>II mean the reason i ask is that so many people are coming out and it seems like this is more of a fad rather than finding who you are.

There are genuinely people who are sucidely depressed about their gender and are actually trans, but in 2019 there are absolutely people trying to jump on a trend. I'd say it's close to a 50/50 split desu.

you can have whatever opinion you want about it but people need to be free to make their own decisions, even if they're bad decisions. it's just part of being human. you accept trans people the same way you accept anyone you dont agree with. if you cant accept people you dont agree with youve got a lot of growing up to do.

tee bee honest, I don't really either.
I can support the "Be whoever you want to be" stuff until it comes to body mods and ficticional/hybrid identities (would rather it just be NB as third gender than the ftm/mtf ect). Because I know the suicide rate skyrockets after most conventional body mods, seeing someone "happy" about theirs is like showing off a cry for help to me. Jarring, but relatable in the form of depression communication. I can understand that whoever can wear whatever clothing/makeup and such. But to go beyond skin cosmetically seems like they are being less of "themselves", not more.

I consider myself pansexual. I don't give a shit what label sticker you wanna wear on your shirt. I don't care about what genitalia you have between your legs, because I can work with it. I don't care about who or what you think your gender is.

What I care about is your head and your heart and if we click there. Everything else is semantics.

Don’t.

There's two paths
1. Find a transgender person you like and get to know them, a lot of them suck but many are cool nerds.

2. Learn about endocrine disrupters and exposure in the womb. There is a real scientific possibility that some pollutant fetuses are being exposed to is making honest-to-god female brain + male body babies. We are swimming in estrogenic pollution so it's not so far fetched