If someone is depressed and constantly suffering, why should they be coaxed out of wanting to end their own suffering? People claim it's selfish to people around them, but that's not really true. The way people react to their death is their own choice, wether they view it as bad or good. If someone was constantly depressed, tried therapy and drugs and everything and it didn't get better, wouldn't you want them to stop having to suffer? Whenever I consider suicide I see it more as a way to end my suffering for good, why is that such a bad thing?
By ending your perceived suffering you're causing more suffering for those around you. You can't say that how people react is their choice and therefore not your problem because I can likewise say that how you feel is a choice. So choose to stop being a sad sack of shit. People that say they've tried everything are always liars.
Permanent answer to a temporary problem is not a good thing. You should try to make your life suck less instead. Assume you are dead and all your problems is gone, how would you live your life? Then do that.
Most people who attempt suicide regret it. So... that's kinda a very rational reason to prevent people from doing it.
Besides the philosophical arguments against the possibility to actually wanna die, you should be aware that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Not wise.
I've tried twice already and I only regret telling them about taking so many pills This has been going on for nearly a decade, it's not temporary, I think I'm defective or something ye bro jus b urself don't be sad anymore haha epic
>I've tried twice already and I only regret telling them about taking so many pills sorry to hear that is there no better solution to your problem?
I don't want to sit here and ask for advice on my life, I'm more interested in why society frowns upon suicide. But to answer your question, I really don't think so. It's not even situational depression, I just hate living. Everything feels like an effort, like I'm wasting my time, but have nothing better to do with it. I have a nice paying job, I'm good looking, a good family and upbringing, but I just don't want to keep going. Not trying to blog post, but I figured I'd answer. I'd like to get back to the topic at hand.
>I'm more interested in why society frowns upon suicide well, as I said, there exist both practical, philosophical and historical reasons: a/ most people regret trying it, so it's obviously not a great thing to do b/ it's a striving not to strive, there's contradiction of the will and so it is by coercion or confusion only that people resort to suicide c/ historically, sacredness of life still runs its course, thanks to xtianity among other things
many people will tell you not to kill yourself. it's a natural instinct desiring not to die. The most effective way they flow hesitation into your head is by mentioning how would, your loved ones react. another point being how much you can improve in life. i'd kill myself if it was painless but I want pussy first
>By ending your perceived suffering you're causing more suffering for those around you What? Do this people around enjoying watching other people suffering? I can't tolerate this shit. If a person or animal suffering in agony and torment I will try to help them. Even if it is putting bullet into their head.
Jesus fuck I can't imagine being as retarded as you. OP isn't some fucking deer that got hit by a car. He's not some dumb fucking injured animal and you shouldn't reduce him and his suffering to that level. There's people that actually care about OP, his death would mean a sudden loss. It's some sad shit for most people. Some of those people might go on to blame themselves. Some of them would think of all the times they could've hung out and all that. More people will suffer because OP wanted a permanant solution to a temporary issue.
And how many of them are aware of how he feels? Again, he's not some injured animal that needs to be put down. Unlike an injured animal, it might not be obvious to anyone just how he feels. Go out a fucking bullet in your own head faggot
That's actually an interesting question, albeit the wrong one. Depression is a disease and is treatable. So the real question is: why do we treat diseases at all? Why do we want to treat cancer? Or a broken arm? Or a cold? It's because we want to live or want to improve the quality of our life. This is undeniable for a healthy human being.
When it comes to depression, you must understand that being in a state of depression strongly influences your way of thinking, meaning that you are approaching this question from a faulty way of thinking. Why treat depression if you don't want to live anyway? Because the reason you don't want to live is because you are depressed. Culturally, depression is frowned upon because it reduces manpower of the state, endangers natural population growth, brings unrest, lands in you hell, and whatever other silly reason. But now it is and should be frowned upon because it is entirely, undeniably unnecessary.
I strongly recommend the book "Night Falls Fast: Understanding suicide" by the author "Kay Redfield Jamison". She suffered from manic-depression herself and even attempted suicide. Now, she is the leading authority on depression in the academic world. Read the book to understand depression and suicide.
Hey, if it's not significant for you that person WANTS TO DIE, then I can't have conversation with you on this topic. Also most of your arguments sounds like selfish cunt problems. Good luck
Well maybe it’s time you kill yourself op, so you stop making these threads every hour
>DUDE YOU SHOULD LIVE YOUR LIFE TOTALLY IN DEFERENCE TO OTHER PEOPLE, YOUR OWN DESIRES DON'T MATTER, IN FACT YOU SHOULD QUIT YOUR JOB AND WORK AS A SLAVE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE INSTEAD What the FUCK is wrong with you you bootlicking faggot?
Here's the facts, all the people who say "you shouldn't suicide" aren't actually properly understanding the very very shit situations that suicidal people are in, AND IF THEY WERE IN THE SAME SITUATION, THEY WOULD ALSO FUCKING WANNA KILL THEMSELVES.
And of course a functional person will say "well I wouldn't let myself get in that situation". That's exactly how I always thought. I used to be a functional human being. Then, somehow, I lost everything. I used to have a salaried job, I went to university, I had friends, I was perfectly normal. But stress and things got to me, I ragequit my job (very stupid), then the shame of quitting my job got to me, and I did apply for new jobs, but I didn't get anything, and everything just got worse, and I got locked up in a mental hospital, and it's been years since I've worked at this point. This isn't a normal situation. Most people don't find themselves in this situation. And the reality is that life is a competition. You can take a few knockbacks and recover, but once you've been out of society for years, that's pretty much game over. Even if you get another job, everyone will have more experience than you, so they will beat you. No girls will want to get with you because you're a failure.
Like I say, those who say "dude don't kill yourself lol" aren't actually understanding the situations of the people thinking about suicide, and if they truly put themselves in those situations, they'd realise the magnitude of them.
>Most people who attempt suicide regret it. If you're talking about survivors, THAT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY'VE JUST MAIMED THEMSELVES FOR LIFE INSTEAD OF SUCCESSFULLY KILLING THEMSELVES.
>disease No it isn't. For hundreds of years that word meant infections. Just because politically correct doctors want to try and change the meaning of that word doesn't mean that the meaning actually changes in general use. They try and make this equivalence because, yeah, they're trying to remove stigma. But it's just fucking stupid. Probably most of society still realises that if you let your life get out of control then that's your own fault, you fucked up, you couldn't hack it.
>treat Yeah nah, because it ain't a disease. Infectious diseases are treated with antibiotics, antivirals, which attack the infecting entities. Whereas psychiatric "medication" is just, OBVIOUSLY, just psychoactive drugs. Like cocaine, or weed, or MDMA. It's just psychoactive drugs. Not exactly the same psychoactive drugs, no, but still psychoactive drugs. They don't "treat" an actual physical medical condition. Depression is a mood, an emotion. If you're depressed it's because your life is shit and it's meant to motivate you to fix your life. That's the evolutionary purpose of it; physical pain and emotional unhappiness are both meant to motivate you to do better things.
Actually I've realised "disease" can be used for cancer as well, which obviously isn't infectious. So I guess actually "disease" means physical ailments, but not ones that are caused by physical injury (broken leg etc.). "Depression" is not one, because there's nothing physically wrong with you. If there was then they'd diagnose it with a blood test, or a biopsy, or something else physical. But they don't because it's not a disease. It's an emotional state caused by your life being shit. I'm not saying people shouldn't get help when they're in shit situations - it would be great if society did help them. But I think it is INCORRECT to start calling it a disease - in fact it can be HARMFUL to patients because they believe their feelings are due to a medical condition (incorrect) instead of their bad life, that they need to fix (correct). Yes, maybe society should offer them help when they're fixing their lives. But we shouldn't lie about what the problem is, because that's dishonest and harmful.
Because the dead can't pay taxes.
>physical pain and emotional unhappiness are both meant to motivate you to do better things And what should you do, if you fail to do better things?
>Why is suicide so frowned upon? Cultural memes implanted to sustain society
As someone who's been locked up in a mental hospital, many of the people in the mental health system end up being dependent on it for their entire lives (I'm in a country with public healthcare by the way - like most countries in the world - so this is all funded from taxpayers' money). I heard different estimates of how much these hospitals cost, but most people (including the people who worked there) were giving figures that are equivalent to $650 - $1,200 USD per night per patient, depending on whether you're in a hospital owned and run by the health system, or a private one that the health system are subcontracting because they don't have enough room in their own hospitals. Either way, it's a fuckload of money. People are usually in these places for a minimum of 28 days - so that's $18,200 on the $650/night figure, or $33,600 on the higher figure. But many can be there for at least 6 months ($118,625 - $219,000) or a year ($237,250 - $438,000) or more, before being moved onto other government-funded accommodation, but which is probably cheaper.
Dunno. If people want to take antidepressants that's up them. Some people love them and think they help them. I think it should be everyone's choice though. And in any case, it still doesn't mean that depression is a "disease" in the sense that that word has been used for hundreds of years.
I do think people can definitely get depressed for reasons that are definitely not their fault (molestation, childhood abuse, etc.). And yes we should absolutely help those people overcome their problems and make lives for themselves. But it still doesn't make depression a "disease", not in the same sense as physical medical conditions. Depression is an emotional problem with life causes, so the ONLY way to completely address it is to solve / resolve the life causes. Antidepressants can maybe help someone on that journey, if they want to take them, but they'll still need to solve problems of getting a job etc.
>"SUICIDE IS A PERMANENT SOLUTION TO A TEMPORARY PROBLEM" >Born with major depression >"JUST DO X AND Y AND BE HAPPY BRO" >Temporary solution to a permanent problem
You’re incorrect user. Depression is not an emotion, but a faulty neurological reaction. Medication to treat depression is not like cocaïne, it simply provides the neurological function that normal people posses. True, one should fix their lives or sort out emotional distress, but that does not take away the fact that their reaction to their problems is overblown and caused by neurological malfunctioning. It’s why people respond differently to similar events such as losing a job or breaking up.
I’m not a doctor so I use disease extremely liberally. I’m fine if you don’t want to call it a disease but you should not say depression is untreatable.
On one hand, everyone should have the right to end their own life, simply because it should be your own right.
On the other hand, suicidal desire from depression is very, very treatable, statistically, and the disorder itself warps not only your cognitive abilities, but how your brain physically works. I don't know what antidepressants you've tried, but there are many kinds, and one of them will work, through very patient trial and error.
I've been locked up for "depression" but how the fuck can you be BORN with depression? For me, I know exactly what caused me to get "depressed". I took on a job that I wasn't thrilled about taking on, then I felt trapped and I got depressed about it, then I finally ragequit but then I felt like a loser for quitting without a new job lined up.
Someone can be born into unhappy circumstances, sure. Some upbringings are unfortunately not as happy as others, especially if you're in foster care or something. But yeah, you're talking about depression as if it's like cystic fibrosis, a genetic condition. But depression is not like that. Scientists think that there is some genetic component to a PROPENSITY for getting depressed, but that's not the same thing as a black-and-white genetic condition like cystic fibrosis, where you either have it or you don't. Also, I'm not even sure whether scientists are that sure about which genes contribute to a higher likelihood of depression, although perhaps they've identified some. In any case - have you had your genome decoded? Otherwise you would have no idea if you have any of these genes, would you?
Anyway. Depression is caused by events in your life - that much is painfully clear. Perhaps some people are more likely to respond to bad events in a more negative way. Dunno. Or maybe the genes that contribute to depression are genes that make you bald, or short, or whatever. And maybe that's why people with those genes get depressed. Could be. Maybe.
Unless you have genetic evidence that you've got genes that are associated with a higher risk of depression, then on what basis are you claiming to be "born with" depression? And even if you DID have such genes, those genes are only associated with a higher risk. It's not fatalistic. It doesn't mean you can't live a proper life does it? Depression is just a state of fucking mind - and like I say, I've been locked up for "depression" so I'm not completely talking out of my ass.
>Research suggests that depression doesn't spring from simply having too much or too little of certain brain chemicals. Rather, there are many possible causes of depression, including faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability, stressful life events, medications, and medical problems. health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression
>A further challenge to the chemical imbalance hypothesis is that many depressed people are not helped by SSRIs... one third of those treated with antidepressants do not improve, and a significant proportion of the remainder get somewhat better but remain depressed. If antidepressants correct a chemical imbalance that underlies depression, all or most depressed people should get better after taking them. scientificamerican.com/article/is-depression-just-bad-chemistry/
>Dr. Jonathan Rottenberg, argues that the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression is wrong. Yes, biological factors are important to understanding depression but it is a mistake to think that these chemicals are what cause, maintain, or exacerbate suffering. Psychology has advanced quite a bit and we now know that our perceptions, expectations, choices, relationship patterns, and strategies for regulating emotions and thoughts influence our psychological health. psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/curious/201403/what-causes-depression-myths-about-chemical-imbalances
If we all kill ourselves who will do the work for our overlord Bezos?
Is it frowned upon? I always tell people to go for it.
Lol never thought of it that way. If all the poor and working people just killed themselves, the rulers would be fucked. It's worth a try.
Money is just time friend. Rulers just own all of our time. Suicide is just stealing from them.
Also a couple of further points. If you want to claim someone has a neurological problem then you need evidence. For example, CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy), which is often seen in athletes in contact sports like american football, rugby, and boxing, can be seen in an autopsy (pic related). It's caused by repeated knocks to the head, basically. Encephalitis, which is swelling of the brain, is diagnosed through blood tests, brain scans, and testing spinal fluid. If you think a depressed person has something wrong in their brain, rather than their life events causing their unhappiness (including childhood events and experiences, habits they've learned from people, self-image they've formed through their experiences and relationships with parents / peers etc.), then you'll need evidence for that claim.
Secondly - as for depression being "treatable" or "untreatable". I think it is *fixable*, sure. And I would never in a million years have an objection with people who do take antidepressants and find them useful. If a person likes taking them and finds them helpful, then it is a very good thing that they're feeling better about life. I'm just not sure whether "treat" is necessarily the right word, because like I say, depression is not in itself a physical medical problem like other medical problems. It's a mood. It might be CAUSED by medical problems - such as CTE which I mentioned earlier, which can cause people to get irritable, depressed, confused, dizzy, all sorts of things, since they've literally done physical damage to their brain. But to verify any such claim of an underlying physical cause, you'd need physical evidence of that physical cause.
>Why is suicide so frowned upon? It feels really weird when something people value more than anything else is discarded violently by others, and without any real suffering occurring or in sacrifice to some higher ideals. No matter what anybody says, we humans depend on each others' validation for our own well-being, so to see the most important thing we have thrown away, and not even in the sacrifice of greater principles, makes them feel very uncomfortable.
What a Bezos thing to say
I love how upset you are at things that weren't even said by the person you replied to.
I enjoy talking with you user. It's things like these that make me want to live, rather than sticking it to Bezos.
>ut that does not take away the fact that their reaction to their problems is overblown and caused by neurological malfunctioning You're an idiot. Depression is not a malfunction in the brain if you were abused as a child and experienced horrible bullshit and you are an empathetic human being you WILL get depressed. You will be confused, scared, sad, and you will react to it and then in our crazy modern world you will be told to just hide your fucking pain all the way into adulthood. And then as an adult you will be told it is just your brain being broken nothing really happened to you suck it up. What a bunch of fucking bullshit you people are the reason I am depressed you people that dismiss everything which is exactly what my parents would do. All your bullshit does is cause the depression to fester and get worse until someone snaps and kills themselves.
What he said literally amounts to living your life in deference to others you fucking moron cunt.