Why do people initially say "sex doesn't matter...

Why do people initially say "sex doesn't matter, stop stressing over it" then immediately jump to call you an incel and insult you if you criticize women at all or feel sexually frustrated in the slightest? And how, exactly, is sex is not a big deal if in 2019 I have to read 30 books on seduction and ask out hundreds of different girls just to even get a chance at it? I'm starting to think I'm painfully below average because I don't think half of these rules even apply to guys who aren't like me or many of us here on Jow Forums.

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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>Step 1: Be attractive
>Step 2: Do not, under any circumstances, be unattractive
Look, you are right, it is in fact 2019, and there is tons of material out there on the discrepancies between male and female dating strategies, if you want to find it. You are on the right track, but sometimes the autistic need it spelled out:
old.r*ddit.com/r/theredpill
>inb4 r*ddit
yeah, fuck off
>inb4 TRP
you brought up incels first ...

Pay for prostitutes.

If you get called an incel it's because you act like one.

Go on a dating site

>missing the point
Incel directly attacks a person for not ever having sex. Its hypocritical to use this when also saying sex doesn't matter. And I've seen it used far too often and far too broadly to really hold weight.

Can't afford here. It's also illegal.

I tried this and nobody wanted to talk to me. I made many threads on here about it in the past and nothing changed.

I've read enough TRP stuff and understand it well enough. I just recently took the black pill, after realizing that short, ugly shitskins like myself are universally undesired by all women.

>Incel directly attacks a person for not ever having sex.
Liar. An incel is used to describe someone who identifies as an incel and follows their teachings. It doesn't have anything to do with sex.

>Incel directly attacks a person for not ever having sex.
Not quite. Incels are people who define their entire life through their inability to have sex. In other words, an incel is obsessive about having sex. Hence, it is not contradictory to call someone an incel, and to say that sex doesn't matter (or at the very least that one should not obsess over it).

Proof? What two terms is “incel” a contraction of?

>he has never heard of semantic shifts

>incel means whatever I want it to

I really don't think all the people who have ever used this term think it just means a mindset. It's a new trendy way of calling people a loser virgin.

Whatever, in my books OP is a true incel: bitter, entitled and whiny

The only way to go through life as an unattractive male (such as myself) is to simply never talk about sex. I do it on here because this place is a joke but in real life NEVER talk about sex. However, even on here, we can all see how unattractive males are treated. I don’t hate women; they have standards and I don’t meet them. Fair. I want sex but not enough to spend money on it or risk imprisonment. Ok.
I don’t honestly know how normies perceive me. We leave each other alone. But I guarantee if word got out that I was a virgin at 22 on a college campus they would take a malicious interest in me. So I say nothing, but especially about sex.
Yes, you need to be attractive to get girls. A part of being attractive is your emotional intelligence which includes confidence and your ability to throw yourself before women begging for sex. If you lack it, too bad I guess

>I can define words however I like

Explain how the OP is "bitter, entitled and whiny" please. And even if he was, why would it matter? Nothing he said really seems wrong. Nobody ever goes and tells a truly attractive guy to go watch RSD videos, read Red Pill and PUA books, and approach hundreds of women *just* to get laid, maybe. Physically attractive men don't work very hard to get sex. Less attractive men have to work harder. Even less attractive men not only have to work very hard but they have basically no guarantee of ever getting laid with somebody they actually like. It's not fair, but it's eugenics in play. It's the natural order of things.

So what if I am a virgin, hate women and people in general, don’t complain about it, and am not entitled because I understand everyone is more successful than me?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

Lies, through and through. All incels are good for

>who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one
Huh. Well, that was easy

I had somebody ask me yesterday evening what age I was, since they already knew I was a virgin. They took a long pause after I said "I turn 27 in two weeks". I know they are lying. But I also know how unfuckable I am. Asshole or not, nice guy or not, none of it matters. I know only one other guy who's had this rough a time with woman, and he is short and thin just like me. The rest of the guys I know have no real issue, but they're all noticeably taller than me so it's not a surprise.

>Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misanthropy,[1] self-pity,[4] self-loathing,[5] misogyny,[6] racism,[6] a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active people.[7][8][9][6]

Why can't you dispatch a single one of these lies? What's stopping you from directly refuting the central point?

>Nobody ever goes and tells a truly attractive guy to go watch RSD videos, read Red Pill and PUA books, and approach hundreds of women *just* to get laid, maybe. Physically attractive men don't work very hard to get sex. Less attractive men have to work harder. Even less attractive men not only have to work very hard but they have basically no guarantee of ever getting laid with somebody they actually like.
Please, tell me how any of this is wrong.

I have no doubt that normies can smell virginity. Any time they start asking, they always joke about how I’m “a slayer” or “drowning in pussy.” It is quite clearly making fun of me. And while I don’t think they mean it to be super evil, it definitely isn’t something that makes me feel good.
I don’t know many know many guys or people in general, but each one I do know has either a gf or talks about sex. My younger brother is the only one that doesn’t and is a virgin that I know of, but he’s also shaping up into a Chad. I’ll will die a virgin and I’ve come to terms with it. I don’t dwell on it, but sometimes (like right now) the feelings of sexual frustration just make me want to vent.

Discussions =! Definition
Or did you redefine that too?

Sorry for the doubly “know many.” I just woke up

He just wants to argue that incels are bad people so he can dismiss them all and not provide meaningful advice. The people who talk about the red and black pills already summed it up well though, especially the latter. If you're truly an incel, it's because you're not good looking enough. There isn't much more to it than this.

>I’ll will die a virgin and I’ve come to terms with it. I don’t dwell on it, but sometimes (like right now) the feelings of sexual frustration just make me want to vent.
This is exactly where I am in life. It sucks to know it never gets better, at least not when it comes to this.

Discussions are characterised by these traits, because people who participate in them possess them
>urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel

It's funny to me how everyone is arguing over what incel means but nobody can directly address the points in OP.

Is he right, or not? Why, or why not?

That’s still not a definition. As said, you’re just desperately trying to define people who don’t have sex as evil. It’s ok. We get it.

>I'm starting to think I'm painfully below average because I don't think half of these rules even apply to guys who aren't like me
This is the realization that brought peace to me. I am unattractive. I am not fit to breed. I do not meet the requirements of women. I was destined at birth to die alone. And now I can focus on other things

He's wrong *because* he doesn't understand the definition of the word he is using. The central point has been refuted, but OP apparently refuses to accept it.

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What are you doing? Career, friendships, exercise or art?

Still defining things willy-nilly, eh? Sad, really

Give us your "official" definition, then, as well as an explanation as to why your definition supercedes common parlance.

Back in school but also doing more art. Also just feel at peace in a way I didn’t before. Granted the revelation happened four or so years ago

You still haven't addressed the main concern. Telling men they're shitty people who feel entitled to sex doesn't mean anything. You don't talk to actually attractive guys like this. And even if a guy is upset because he can't get laid, it doesn't mean his concerns have no basis in reality, and it doesn't mean he's blaming anyone either.

Again, if I say "I'm too ugly to get laid", this isn't me "blaming" women. That's me going "oh shit, I guess I am just too ugly to get laid". It's no different than saying "I'll probably never be rich enough to drive a Lamborghini", although it obviously holds much more emotional weight than simply owning a very nice car.

Anyone who defines themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.
Because Wikipedia says sl

*so
Before you attack me

NOOOOO they're not saying "unable to get sex" they feel entitled like the world OWES them sex. Sheesh man if you can't demonize them enough they seem like actual people!! Get a clue.

The main concern in the OP was the apparent contradiction between his definition of incel and the injunction to stop stressing over sex. It has been pointed out multiple times that incels are people who not only stress about sex, but obsess over it. So there is no contradiction between the two.

Where exactly are you reading a contradiction between
"unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one" and
"frustrated virgin who feels as if the world owes them sex"?

That's not the main concern, and I would know because I'm OP. You're arguing about the definition of incel because you have no refutation of the main point, especially this:

>how, exactly, is sex is not a big deal if in 2019 I have to read 30 books on seduction and ask out hundreds of different girls just to even get a chance at it? I'm starting to think I'm painfully below average because I don't think half of these rules even apply to guys who aren't like me or many of us here on Jow Forums.

[my particular brand of incels] killed people! They’re all the same!

If you think that you have to read books on seduction to get a chance of getting a sexual partner, it's not unreasonable for someone to infer you are an incel.

Well, simply put, they are not the same thing. I can want/desire a well seeded torrent for some obscure movie and get frustrated when I don’t find it without feeling “entitled” or “owed” it. Also, Incel traditionally has applied to anyone, not just virgins or men, who would like sex but can’t have it.

Unable to find a romantic partner despite desiring one has no direct connection to feeling owed sex. I tried for many years to have sex, I downloaded dating apps and went on dates, I improved my grooming habits, social skills and shit, then I noticed women have a million options and just pick the hottest one, so I have no business trying. This isn't about being "entitled to sex" (if I was, I wouldn't have put in effort and took time to try and get it), this is about waking up and realizing that I can't get laid because I'm not meant to. Nothing about saying "women don't want to fuck me" says something is wrong with them. I'm simply not going to get laid because they don't want to fuck me. And any normal person would probably feel pretty bad upon realizing this.

You're a retard.

Idk who told you that sex isn't a big deal. It's subjective to some extent. For example I'm a virgin woman who doesn't care about sex, but I can see that it's the focal point of mass media, and very present is our culture. And it's a big deal because that's literally biological imperative of almost all beings - to have sex and make offsprings. But obviously for a healthy person sex shouldn't be the only thing that counts in life, but one of life's many aspects. There are people who don't have sex for whatever reason and still manage to have happy and fulfilling lives. And there are people who fuck all the time but still are unhappy... I don't know about reading books and doing so much stuff to get a girl. I'm not a guy, but I don't think most guys need to be so thorough. I know guys I crush on are regular dudes, not some pua masters. Maybe your lack of luck with girls is down to your physical appearance combined with unattractive personality and if that's the case the you would profit from developing yourself as a person instead of focusing so much on sex or girls

>I can want/desire a well seeded torrent for some obscure movie and get frustrated when I don’t find it without feeling “entitled” or “owed” it.
If you want something but don't get it and then get frustrated because of that, that is a perfect example of entitlement. If you didn't feel entitled, you would have no reason to be frustrated.
>Also, Incel traditionally has applied to anyone, not just virgins or men, who would like sex but can’t have it.
Most people who would like to sex but can't have it are virgins as a result.

So what are you supposed to feel if you don’t find something you’re searching for? Genuinely curious because this is a new line of reasoning from you people

Not an argument.

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>Why do people initially say "sex doesn't matter, stop stressing over it"
sex has an inflated value in society, yes, sex itself doesn't matter so much, it's just an indicator of power and personal value, but it can have as much or as little meaning as you want if you stop giving a shit
>if you criticize women at all or feel sexually frustrated in the slightest
if you only criticize women for our hellish sex obsessive culture you're clearly not seeing the full picture. the only reason "women" can culturally do shitty things in hookups is because men will literally tolerate anything for pussy. if men collectively decided to develop standards and self-respect, then women would have to be better. same for women too, if they actually used their brains around shitty men, then maybe shitty men would have to learn to not be so shit. this is a problem with multiple facets, whining about women doesn't make you enlightened to said culture, just makes you another shitty man desu
>I have to read 30 books on seduction
this is dumb, if someone tells you you need to read a book on seduction they're only trying to sell you the book, you think every super ugly nigga with a gf even knows how to read
>ask out hundreds of different girls
I've asked out hundreds of guys off and on for a period of several years before I found my match, I was treated like shit and ghosted all the time. really women only have the advantage if they're looking for hookups, something I never found appealing, men suddenly disappear when they realize they won't get coochie in three dates or less

>you people
Really?
>So what are you supposed to feel if you don’t find something you’re searching for?
I didn't wake up and find a million dollars today, but I'm not angry about it, I just accept it and continue about my day.

Yes, really.
Ok, so yeah, in that case sure. That’s pretty much how I feel but let’s make it a little more comparable to what these guys experience.
Let’s say everyday growing up your parents and society tell that you’ll find a million dollars one day. You then spend your early adult life looking for that million dollars while everyone else your age, one by one, find their million. After a while you start to feel something. Yeah, sure, it would be great if you didn’t feel frustrated, and maybe you would call this entitlement, but to me it’s understandable

What you said above isn't an argument.

Thanks for the honest response without insults or shaming words.

>I don't know about reading books and doing so much stuff to get a girl. I'm not a guy, but I don't think most guys need to be so thorough. I know guys I crush on are regular dudes, not some pua masters.
Well, it's what I've been told especially when googling it. "Read this book like I did, it helped me a lot". Somebody I used to be very close to even gave me a couple of books to read, claiming they helped him get laid and it would help me too.

>Maybe your lack of luck with girls is down to your physical appearance combined with unattractive personality and if that's the case the you would profit from developing yourself as a person instead of focusing so much on sex or girls
I honestly don't know. I've mulled on this for years. And I *thought* I had made personal developments and strides, but people in my personal life have told me I haven't, which alone hurts to hear. But then again, as I've said, women I know all tend to favor looks above almost everything. I never hear them mention how this or that guy had a wonderful personality, just that he was very attractive or even had a huge dick.

>If you want something but don't get it and then get frustrated because of that, that is a perfect example of entitlement. If you didn't feel entitled, you would have no reason to be frustrated.
This doesn't really make sense. "I worked really hard on my resume so I could get my dream job, but none of the places I've applied to have wanted to hire me and it's frustrating". Would you say that this guy is entitled too? Somehow I doubt it. I only ever see this word in the context of sex and incels and it's very telling. To any other situation we would just say "sorry, that sucks", but not here.

>everyday growing up your parents and society tell that you’ll find a million dollars one day
Your parents and society told you everyday that you would effortlessly get free sex?

Parents said “I’d find someone,” and society broadcasts people having effortless free sex, yes. Granted, I should have established earlier that I am not attractive like the guys and women who get free sex. Not I’ve realized that I don’t feel much anymore.

*Now* that I’ve realized that...
I have realized it. I’m ugly, unattractive, undesirable, etc.

>society broadcasts people having effortless free sex
What society do you live in? Because it sounds a lot different from mine.

>"I worked really hard on my resume so I could get my dream job, but none of the places I've applied to have wanted to hire me and it's frustrating". Would you say that this guy is entitled too?
Not that user, but yes, that's also entitlement. That frustration comes from a feeling of entitlement, this belief that you not only deserve, but that you are now owed a job from a company for all the hard work you did, but really you still aren't owed shit. The world literally owes you nothing no matter what you do or don't do for X, Y, or Z.

American mass consumerist culture.

>"I worked really hard on my resume so I could get my dream job, but none of the places I've applied to have wanted to hire me and it's frustrating". Would you say that this guy is entitled too?
Yes. The person may have put work into his resume, but to say that as a result he must get hired or else he will feel wronged, *is* entitlement.
>Parents said “I’d find someone,”
Very different from telling you you would get immediate free sex
>society broadcasts people having effortless free sex
Which society tells you that?

>sex has an inflated value in society, yes, sex itself doesn't matter so much, it's just an indicator of power and personal value, but it can have as much or as little meaning as you want if you stop giving a shit

It's also the only reason any of us are alive. But I see what your point is.

>if you criticize women for our hellish sex obsessive culture
Well they actively take part in it but that's not something I've criticized only them for.
>if they actually used their brains around shitty men, then maybe shitty men would have to learn to not be so shit
This is more in line with what I would say. I've met far too many who really aren't self aware when it comes to picking shitty guys who treat them like shit, but omg he's so hot so what does it matter.

>I've asked out hundreds of guys off and on for a period of several years before I found my match,
You're a woman, or a gay guy? Just wondering.

>they're only trying to sell you the book
I mean, of course they are, but a little knowledge or insight into how I've failed and how i could do better realistically wouldn't hurt. I don't get the full stigma with guys reading books or whatever, like wanting to be better at relationships is somehow a bad thing. But the only book I ever read on the subject is "Models" by Mark Manson and it's not a PUA/seduction guide so much as it is a straight-talk session on how you need to take responsibility for women not liking you, work out and get a job and stop sucking at life etc. and then maybe they will. But I still struggle to accept that looks aren't the number one thing women care about, and to be honest that's really the biggest concern I have lately.

>women I know all tend to favor looks above almost everything
Maybe that's the problem? I know many girls who don't think that way, when I talk with my friends about guys we discuss their physical attractiveness too but it's just one of many things. I have a history of getting crushes on guys who would be probably rated average but who were really interesting to me and with personalities and traits I clicked with. Idk what country you're in, but I think sometimes it depends a lot because girls from US can be more picky than girls from Latvia for example

It's not sold as inherently effortless, it's sold as "it could be effortless, if only you read this book, wear these jeans, use this app, eat this food, drive this car, work this job, believe these things," and so on. There is a reason people in marketing say sex sells. People are made to be desperate for sex so it can be used to sell every single thing, not to benefit you, but to make money. Do you really not see that?

Yeah, I see it in that regard, but you also see it in movies/tv and music. Also just being on a college campus and hearing groups (attractive) men and women talking about how much sex they had last night or over the weekend.
Anyhow, yeah, I understand unattractive people have to put in immense effort to get sex, therefore making it not effortless. If people (namely parents) had told me the truth growing up that I’m not attractive, I wouldn’t have had to figure it out on my own. I did, but only after a period of sexual frustration and resentment

But why is it unreasonable to be frustrated? Why is it unreasonable to feel shitty because you've tried very hard to get something and gotten nothing but rejection and failure?

I would like to point out that the last few times I got rejected, my own friends would say things like "you didn't do anything wrong, some women are just stuck up and only care about looks" and these friends are hardly incels that I gather so...

>Parents said “I’d find someone,”
>Very different from telling you you would get immediate free sex

I'm not the user who talked about parents but guys who are much younger than me basically get women throwing themselves at them and gushing over them because they're tall an handsome. I think some people really do believe that most or all guys experience just simply walking around and having girls eye them up and down. I think many people don't really understand that some of us aren't nearly as fortunate or lucky in this regard.

>society broadcasts people having effortless free sex
>Which society tells you that?

All the people saying that if you wanna get laid, just download Tinder and hook up with some thots. Not even joking.

I'm in the US.
But I've been to other countries and the women there pretty much were the same, so IDK.

I'm curious to know how to make a personality better so I'm not so offputting. Like what exactly do some guys do that make you interested in them, etc.

>I've met far too many who really aren't self aware
Neither are you if you look at our sex culture and get bitter over women. You have to see the the full picture and let go of resentment if you want peace.

>You're a woman
Bingo.

I'll give it to you straight. I want nothing to do with a man who's self-esteem and personal value is that tightly tied up in sex. Maybe others do, others that value sex that highly, but I'm not that way. I know this because I've been with a guy like that and it was insufferable. Sex was never about us, it was always about him. Was he good enough? What was he doing wrong? "I know it isn't about me but I still feel like you don't like me!" How can I explain to a man who thinks sex is that important that I'm literally just tired and sex is a lot of energy, if he still couldn't accept the explanation? I tried so hard to be there for him, but his insecurities slowly drove me away because he wouldn't accept or believe he had value. To him, any rejection was a rejection of his value as a partner, instead of it just being "eh, I'm just not feeling it right now." Because of his insecurities, I could never relax, I could never feel safe, which meant he often turned me off. Cuddling, kissing, it was tense because my desire for him. would make or break the evening. I felt pressured to fuck him because he'd get pissy if I didn't. Needless to say, as far as I know, he went turbo "incel" after we broke up. (cont)

Fast forward several several years. My current partner has lots of insecurities, he is a weird loser like me, but he understands that whether we have sex or not doesn't diminish his personal value or self-esteem. He flirts with me, sometimes with intention, but mostly just to have fun. Everything regarding sex is communal, it's about turning me on, it's about enjoying each other's bodies, it doesn't need to result in sex to have meaning for us. Making out and touching each other isn't "steps taken to put my penis in you to receive validation I deserve your sex and attention," it's just positive and sweet and dirty. I'm relaxed all the time so I'm in the mood more, and if I say no, even if it's getting hot and heavy, he'll not only stop, but instead of making it about him, he makes it about me and determines what went wrong. If I tell him "I just can't stop thinking about work," we switch to talking about work. Lo and behold, I feel safe and comfortable and eventually we have sex again.

In other words, fix your fucking perspective because even if you land a girlfriend these insecurities don't go away, they just ruin your new relationship slowly. Don't put pussy on a high pedestal because you'll never reach it.

>How can I explain to a man who thinks sex is that important that I'm literally just tired and sex is a lot of energy, if he still couldn't accept the explanation? I tried so hard to be there for him, but his insecurities slowly drove me away because he wouldn't accept or believe he had value.

If he's like me, he's heard enough women talk about or outright say that they're sex crazy and super horny around guys they find very attractive, and you not wanting to fuck him is because he's not attractive. Not feeling it = I don't feel like you're attractive. There's a great number of men who believe this. Ask anyone in the "manosphere" consisting of PUA's, Red Pillers, MGTOW's and Incels and they'd all tell you the same thing. I wouldn't know how to fix this either. It's a nice think to think about and I appreciate the input but I really don't know how to fix it. It doesn't help that when I meet women, all they care about is your looks/sexual attractiveness and what you do for them. I feel intense pressure to please them all the time and that pressure makes me feel bad when I'm not satisfying them. Do you understand what that's like?

>he won't make it about him, he'll make it about me instead
Okay, so honestly, i fail to see how this is better. From having read your post, it seems like you just want sex to be only on your terms, only when you want it. Yes, the guy is accommodating, yes, it works for you, but do you ever think about him or his feelings or desires, or do you just not care about that stuff at all?

>fix your perspective
That women care a lot about looks? That you need to be very attractive physically and also have "game" to really turn them on? It's not a matter of perspective.

Because you are a liar and have not "tried very hard". You haven't done shit. Getting sex or a gf is easier than ever today.

...is easier [for me] than ever...

>you haven't done shit
Why should I listen to somebody who is so very wrong about me and my life?

Because you’re an incel

Good one. The NPC normie short-circuits when asked to critically think before answering.

Easier for everyone.

Well, easier times zero is still zero, so maybe you’re right. I would be alone at any point in time

Well it's pretty obvious. Describe what you mean by having tried very hard.

Not him, but in your just-world does every action get the anticipated reward?

It's both plus and multiplier. And it's not like anyone starts at zero. Unless they are asexual.

Can you stop repeating incel buzzwords? They tend to ruin the conversation by dragging everyone's IQ by 20 points.

Whatever you say, champ. No woman has expressed interest in me. I am absolutely unattractive. It would be like this regardless of when I was born. I will die alone and a virgin... unless you will have sex with me.
*cue “n-no not m-m-me”*

It’s a logical fallacy. I’m sorry you didn’t get a basic education

>There's a great number of men who believe this.
And I'm not going to date or fuck those men for exactly that reason. I'm not your mom, I'm not going to hold your hand so you always feel good about yourself, and I'm not your therapist, either. If you have a problem with seeing sex as the be all end all, that's on you, that's not my responsibility to fix or fill a void in you. I'd support someone taking initiative, say, to get actual counseling about debilitating self-worth issues, I'd listen and help that decision, but just me playing counselor? I did that for four years straight and it was a near constant battle. Fuck that.

>Do you understand what that's like?
That's my life every single day. I have exteme anxiety and depression. I feel the need to be perfect, I feel constant pressure to be the "perfect" partner, and I'll mercilessly beat myself up if I fuck up. I hate myself, especially my looks, on a level that I can scarcely describe. I can't tell you how many men ghosted me, blocked me when they finally got a selfie of my face. You think that feels good? My current partner has had the same happen to him, he has huge insecurities regarding his appearance, too.

Everyone has demons, user. That's why you can't hide behind them Rejection after rejection, I kept reaching out to men and talking to the few who messaged me. Rejection after rejection, my bf did the same. We wouldn't have found each other if we gave into our demons, and we wouldn't be happy together if we let our insecurities run our lives, especially regarding sex.

>do you just not care about that stuff at all?
Of course I do. My point is good sex isn't an exchange of one want for another, it isn't "I'll give head if you do," it's communal, like I said. It's "doing things you want to do that they like and then they tell you to do this and maybe you do it and make them moan or maybe you do the opposite to get a rise out of them to see what they do." Understand?

Isn't is because incels wear that name like a badge of honor? It was created to help them and they turned it into a cult, they always say they are incels before going on rampages, they want to be associated with it, so it is perfectly understandable that people are weary and will call out the textbool behavior for what it is when they see it.

Yeah some people are immature and will use anything as an insult but it a real thing.

As for sex, intimacy is a human need for most people though not all, but sex really isn't. It is a part of intimacy but sex is not necessary for survival and nobody is owed these things. The people starved for affection and intimacy have ways of getting that.

Incel itself is a buzz word, so you're not helping your case.

Improved social skills significantly, asked many women out, endured many rejections, focused on own passions and hobbies pretty strictly on the side and still do.

I feel like it'd blow your mind if I said I've made friends with women and many of them liked me very much as a person. The thing that people in this thread don't seem to want to accept is that being an incel or simply sexually frustrated isn't just for ruinous psychopaths like Elliot Rodger. I know for a fact that none of the women I'm friends with would have sex with me. That's fine, and it's within their right, but I can also acknowledge that the only thing stopping them is whether or not they find me sexually attractive. If my personality really was that repulsive, they wouldn't even want to be my friend. People use personality to justify being with someone they're already attracted to. They don't want to fuck somebody because they're a good person and they get along with them extremely well. And it's stupid IMO to pretend that a guy cannot be so ugly or simply so lacking in conventional attractiveness (height, face, fitness) that women don't want to fuck him. A guy is simply cute or hot, or he's not. Whether or not he's actually very ugly doesn't matter - if he's too short, or scrawny, or whatever, he's SOL. Women want to have exciting, passionate sex with men they find very attractive, and that has every thing to do with looks and nothing to do with personality.

I believe sex is not everything but incels are also misunderstood because normies hate anything that scares them. Normies are weak and their weaknesses hurt others.

Hum. Nobody said you need to be my mom and I see sex as be all end all. Just that I'm not necessarily buying that you not feeling it is because you don't feel like it, and not because you're not attracted to me enough to want it.

>that's my life every single day
So if you act like this it's acceptable but if a guy is insecure it's a massive deal breaker. Interesting.

I don't see sex as a dealbreaker per say. Again though, if you never or almost never esnt to fuck i can think nothing of it other than you just don't like me sexually very much. And that's not a relationship I want to be in.