Waco: Assault on the second amendment?

I recently did some research into the Waco massacre, which I initially thought was just an attack on a cult.
Now I’m not so sure.
Thoughts?

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=7iWqfUSKT0c
youtube.com/watch?v=xsDBAixXJdM
sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2018/01/27/family-of-rancher-killed-in-bundy-standoff-sues-the-us-oregon-police/
armsandthelaw.com/
documentingreality.com/forum/f240/waco-autopsy-photographs-february-1993-a-15113/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

What happened there?

FBI murdered a bunch of kids.

Federa government burned down a religious compound, and slaughtered 82 people

Some US citizens thought they had constitutional rights that had higher priority than the Yankee government. The Yankee government disagreed.

Both of these

Tfw government bad

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SUMMARY

A sect of the Seventh Day Adventists broke off.
David Koresh molded this branch into a cult.
ATF suspected they were stockpiling illegal weapons.
Koresh offered to let the ATF inspect their paperwork but the ATF declined.
ATF obtained search and arrest warrants.
ATF claimed Koresh was running a meth lab - they weren't.
Branch Davidians learned about the raid - Koresh said he intended to talk with the ATF.
ATF decided to go through with the raid anyway as planned.

What happens next is up for debate.
>ATF says Branch Davidians shot first
>Branch Davidians say ATF shot first

Branch Davidians called emergency services within a minute of the shooting beginning to ask them to stop shooting.
2 hours of shooting went by.
Local sheriff called a ceasefire - though the ATF readily admitted they were for the ceasefire cause they were running low on ammo.
Branch Davidians let the ATF get the dead/wounded.
6 hours later ATF breaks the ceasefire.

FBI comes in now.
FBI cuts all Branch Davidian contact to outside world.
Some negotiation happens and the Davidians let some children out.
FBI let Branch Davidians make a video but decided not to release it to the public because it would garner them sympathy.
FBI started fucking with them more.
FBI starts driving Bradleys and M728s around, playing music/slaughterhouse sounds all through the night.
FBI cut all water and power.
Koresh ordered more Davidians to leave - they did and were arrested.
Janet Reno and Clinton okay'd the siege.
FBI decides to blow holes in the wall and pump in tear gas.
Sometime FBI fire pyrotechnic rounds despite instructions not to.
Fires started and everyone remaining died.

A month later the site was bulldozed destroying any remaining evidence.

ON GUNS:

Possession of an automatic firearm is not inherently illegal. Especially if one possesses an FFL or the appropriate tax stamps. Now the often argument falls upon whether or not they were using m16 Sears to be combined with ar15 lowers. This would be illegal except for two things:

The branch Davidians possesses a FFL and ran a gun store out of the compound called the mag bag.

And two, you would have to prove ill intent given that they had a FFL. Ie. That the FFL holder was not intending to sell them to government officers for the purpose of their duties nor that he possessed them for personal use such as luxury/runnimg a gun range.

Koresh swore the paperwork was done legally. He invited the ATF in to inspect both the guns and the papers. They refused. They also conveniently staged the siege while the FFL holder was out of state selling guns at a gun show.

MORE GUNS

>Branch Davidians did not have mines - court documents talking of mines were speculating of mines and concealed bunkers and planned accordingly

>Branch Davidians did not have .50 cal rifles

This is what they had:


61 M16 type
2 M16 type lowers
61 AK 47 type
34 AR15 type
2 AR15 type lowers
13 Shotguns, 12 gauge
11 FN FAL types
10 Ruger Mini-14
7 35mm Flare guns
6 .30 M1 carbines
5 M11/9
5 M14
3 Galil
2 HK SP89
1 HK MP5
1 Air rifle
1 Sten
23 Beretta pistols
13 Glock pistols
8 assorted revolvers
6 Safari Arms pistols
5 Sig Sauer pistols
5 Walther pistols
2 Taurus pistols


The Branch Davidians did not have any M82s. The only evidence ever presented of .50 cal was hearsay provided by 2 people: a neighbour who said he heard a big gun and assumed .50 cal, and a former Branch Davidian who was kicked out. These claims were never confirmed despite having an FBI undercover agent in the facility who frequently shot with the Davidians and Koresh. So these claims were unsubstantiated.

Of the above guns, only 46 were automatic, but as noted before, automatic =/= illegal.

Secondly, of explosives, they had all of 4 live M-21 practice grenades. That is it. And once again, owning explosives is not inherently illegal.

This is completely ignoring the fact that the ATF refused to make any attempts to de-escalate the situation, refused to make any arrests when available, refused cooperation by the Branch Davidians, etc. ad nauseum.

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What started the whole fiasco was a postal worker was delivering packages to the compound and the damaged box contained gunpowder. The shithead mailman contacted the ATF, even though there weren't any laws being broken. Then the ATF and FBI started surveillance on the compound and found out they're heavily armed. Government agencies didn't take kindly to that.

The list of guns I posted was from the Texas Rangers and FBI's subsequent investigation into the cult. It includes all guns found at the compound. There are no .50 cals on that list. The reports of the .50 cals came from the ATF and the Brady Campaign.

Likewise, when you look at the same report in regards to explosives, it is largely unlikely that the ATF agents were injured by grenades. There was a significant lack of materials to manufacture live grenades, and the only explosives used during the entirety of the siege, came from the ATF and FBI.

ON LEGAL GUNS

Considering that the guns were legally under the name of Paul Fatta, a Davidian who possessed an FFL level 7 and ran a gun store out of the compound, the 1986 FOPA doesn't really matter as they was not an infraction. Legally Fatta may possess, manufacture and modify automatic weapons for the purposes of collection, sale to law enforcement/military, or personal use for demos etc. This isn't even including any that would have been NFA legal automatics - which any of them could arguably own. Just the modified here.

Now ignoring that a more important thing wasn't even the possession. The warrant was never issued for possession of an illegal firearm. The warrant was issued for "conspiracy to possess illegal firearms". While they had a member that could legally own said illegal firearms.

It is also worth note, that the Branch Davidians, when first informed of the interest in their firearms, sought to allow the ATF to inspect not only the firearms they suspected were illegal, but also the paperwork which would show any circumstances that would right the issue - that is FFL papers/NFA tax stamps etc.

ON PAUL FATTA

Paul Fatta ran a gun store out of the compound. It was no secret that he sold to law enforcement or military. In fact, the gun store was responsible for a large portion of the group's funding for their lifestyle. Hell, he had automatics with him when the raid went down as he was selling guns in another state at a gun show.

But more importantly, if an automatic is not illegally modified - all you need is a tax stamp and anyone could own it - which basically means you just need your paperwork. Given that there was 80 or so Branch Davidians (There were 132 but I am taking into account women and children as unlikely to own a firearm) at Waco, that would not even be remotely out of the question for there to be NFA tax stamps among the group. Especially since the group was pro gun and had members who could fill out the paperwork. This paperwork was cited as evidence the group did nothing wrong, yet the ATF refused to look at it. Any evidence of this paperwork was destroyed when the compound caught fire along with various other files they maintained on religion, taxes etc.

Fatta did not need to have a "use" for the collection. And the modifications were not illegal so long as he was registered as the owner.

Lets assume they are a cult with neo-apocalyptic outlooks. You are suggesting that it is alright - or positive - for the federal government to violate the rights not only of the group but of the individual when there is no evidence of illegal wrongdoings, no trial nor allowance to provide evidence against any allegations let alone suspected allegations, and ultimately condemn the citizens to death based upon premises that are shaky at best.

Having doomsday idealism is not inherently illegal nor does it inherently mean the individual or group is dangerous to themselves or society at large. This was not even a considered factor in the warrants.

Remember, the entirety of this boils down to "conspiracy to possess an illegal firearm".

To assume the Branch Davidians shot first is presumptuous, especially considering at the time they had invited ATF in to the compound in regards to various claims such as a meth lab/illegal weapons. Furthermore, considering the ceasefire during the siege, the Branch Davidians also showed considerable empathy, given that after the ceasefire was called they allowed the ATF to remove the dead and wounded from inside the compound and its surrounding grounds despite having the advantage of ammunition and fortification. Given the cults reputation with nearby locals, it would be rather out of character for them for them to be non-compliant with a search warrant.


Furthermore, Authorities acknowledge they started shooting the dogs first.

What happens next depends on who you side with.
>ATF says they attempted to breach and were met with Branch Davidian gunfire
>Branch Davidians claim ATF fired first

If you look at the evidence, what you see is that:

One ATF agent admittedly shot himself on accident climbing a ladder
He was removed without any shots being fired at him despite being in full view of windows/no cover
The ATF admitted to shooting the dogs first
The church's front door had damage showing exits on the interior (meaning it was shot through from outside)

So in all likelihood, ATF shot first. This would be consistent with the Branch Davidian's statement.

Elaboration

Well you have to consider what was going on politically and societally at the time of Waco. FOPA was introduced in 1986, the War on Drugs is declared (which figured into this as the ATF told the Feds that the Branch Davidians were running a meth lab in order to gain additional resources), Ruby Ridge had happened, the ATF had just had their shit taken to the cleaners in congressional hearing for generating cases by fucking over citizens, the militia movement is gaining popularity as the government keeps fucking up, etc.

iirc the ATF was also in a position where they were gonna lose a bunch of funding as well.

So basically it came time that they needed an event to flex their muscles and come off the victor. I mean there are other conspiracies out there - but the most likely cause is that the ATF is a bunch of idiots. For example:

>FBI try to negotiate
>FBI promise no change in electricity/water access etc.
>ATF go and cut the lines etc.

Every time the FBI tried to make an effort the ATF fucked it up.

MOLESTATION

The problem with the molestation charges comes with how they were gained. As per the report sent to the Deputy Attorney General:

Evidence #1 was an ATF affidavit containing hearsay an ATF agent gained from a former cult member

Evidence #2 was notes from an interview a CPS made when talking to a girl who's family was kicked out of the cult

Evidence #3 was hearsay from a former cult member

Evidence #4 was hearsay from a former cult member (related to evidence 3 member)

Evidence #5 is interesting - it was from the shrink who interviewed the kids when they were released - he said from what he gained, none of the kids were abused but may have been present when sexual things were talked about

Evidence #6 was from the FBI on the phone with a branch davidian - the FBI try to pressure the davidian into saying he was fucking 12 yr olds, but the davidian believed the youngest he fucked was a 14 yr old - said Davidian married a kid and claimed Koresh married them to cover his abuse

Evidence #7 was from a psychiatrist and he said that there was no way to resolve the situation at all and that Koresh was fucking kids - this is the only psychiatrist out of 8 who were consulted that suggested Koresh was fucking kids.

The conclusion at the end of the report is that there was no direct evidence establishing sexual abuse allegations, however it noted that there were circumstantial indications and the children were in a deteriorating living environment and the possibility of abuse would increase as the siege continued.

The vast majority of the evidence came from former cult members - the same members that false claimed Koresh had machine guns, .50 cal or larger weapons etc.

So realistically, what it would at least get is a warrant for Koresh, and the ability to allow CPS into the compound to do their own investigation. However that course of action was chosen against and a siege was carried out instead.

Other random facts:

youtube.com/watch?v=7iWqfUSKT0c
>supposed audio blasted at the Branch Davidians

ATF still went ahead with the assault after discovering that the Branch Davidians knew they were coming
>their assault plan was conceptualized around making it to the door before the Davidians knew they were coming and had a chance to arm

Tax fraud was never proven
Child abuse was never proven
>one of the people who said Koresh fucked a kid, was married to said kid, and said Koresh married them to cover up his escapades
Welfare fraud was never proven
Drug manufacturing was never proven
>one could even argue against it was considered as Koresh had called the government to clean up a meth lab ran by the original leader Roden

Lon Horiuchi, of Ruby Ridge fame, was present at the Waco siege
>Texas rangers alleged that he fired the first shots on the final day

I don’t remember reading about moleststion

"Long before the fire, the Davidians were discussing the evidence contained in the doors. During the siege, in a phone conversation with the FBI, Steve Schneider, one of Koresh's main confidants, told FBI agents that 'the evidence from the front door will clearly show how many bullets and what happened'." Houston attorney Dick DeGuerin, who went inside Mount Carmel during the siege, testified at the trial that protruding metal on the inside of the right-hand entry door made it clear that the bullet holes were made by incoming rounds. DeGuerin also testified that only the right-hand entry door had bullet holes, while the left-hand entry door was intact. The government presented the left-hand entry door at the trial, claiming that the right-hand entry door had been lost. The left-hand door contained numerous bullet holes made by both outgoing and incoming rounds. Texas Trooper Sgt. David Keys testified that he witnessed two men loading what could have been the missing door into a U-Haul van shortly after the siege had ended, but he did not see the object itself. Michael Caddell, the lead attorney for the Branch Davidians' wrongful death lawsuit explained, "The fact that the left-hand door is in the condition it's in tells you that the right-hand door was not consumed by the fire. It was lost on purpose by somebody." Caddell offered no evidence to support this allegation, which has never been proved. However, fire investigators stated that it was "extremely unlikely" that the steel right door could have suffered damage in the fire much greater than did the steel left door, and both doors would have been found together. The right door remains missing, and the entire site was under close supervision by law enforcement officials until the debris—including both doors—had been removed.[90]

They also did shit like this - this is a Devtech 25 flashbang found at the point of origin of the 2nd fire. They used quite a bit more of these then they let on to.

Yup. CS gas is what they usually say they use. CS itself is a powder, that is mixed with methyline chloride (otherwise known as dichloromethane or DCM), which is important as it produces flammable vapours. A volume of 13% to 25% of DCM at 25*C (or 77*F) and atmospheric pressure can ignite easily.

Reminder that Tim McVeigh did nothing wrong.

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>m278s and Bradley's
They gained access through the ATF filing a request due to the War on Drugs legislation that allows the FBI/ATF/anyone involved in an operation to request equipment, vehicles and training that is afforded to the military.

In essence its a way to deploy military equipment against civilians bypassing the legal structure preventing the use of the military against the civilians

Wolverines remember Waco!

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prepare

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Have the rumors of the FBI playing slaughterhouse noises ever been confirmed?

Yeah, it's admitted in that after action report iirc. But that is less of an issue compared to all other factors.

Keep digging.. it's darker than you think.

Hillary Clinton made Vincent Foster give the order to gas the bunker where the children were.

>just an attack on a cult
>mormons and scientology and prosperity gospels are left untouched

I bet you also think that the aether doesnt exist because the government tells you so.

So I came into this wondering if this was justified, because it was used against a violent cult.
But considering they didn’t resist as much as I previously thought, were they really that violent of a cult?

Geez man, one red pill at a time!

Shits fucked up bro. Freedom has always been a lie.

>David Koresh molded this branch into a cult.
>ATF suspected they were stockpiling illegal weapons.
in-between these two was a series of articles in the newspaper making all the claims

Pretty sick shit user.

Wait they gassed the kids for real?

I remember watching this live on Chanel 1 news with Anderson Cooper when I was in HS. It was this that woke me up at 14, I watched them blast on the loud speaker how they weren't attacking as they drove the tank into a building full of kids. I watched Cooper & FBI guys pose with the burnt skulls of the children on a humvee as if it was a good thing. I watched it live and it was nothing but a massacre. Few years later I found Alex Jones and it's been a wild 25 years since.

Yes

Yes they did. With CS gas. The kids went down below. Ultimately died of suffocation due to smoke inhalation or burning.

>But that is less of an issue compared to all other factors.
Not really. You're not allowed to enjoy killing your own civilians. If you want to be gleeful in a massacre join the army. Being a protector of the peace is a different role.

>Alex Jones

Yea Alex Jones faggot, he's been right more than he has been wrong & he told the fucking truth about Waco. Fuck off with your hurrdurr MSM alex Jones faggotry

There are some photos in the archives of the doors/grenades/burned kids.

Remember when the UPS driver said that a box of grenades had busted open & a bunch fell out all over the truck (cause that totally happens), which then set into motion the justification for the raid?

So like
A false flag or something?

Yea, I've seen them...I've had dreams about Waco since I was 14. Was a genuinely traumatic thing to watch and almost no one was honest about it in the media at the time. You could watch it live and they would tell you something different was happening to what you were looking at. Truly the most Orwellian moment of my youth.

/thread

ATF was about to be disbanded and it powers given to FBI.
They set up an assault on a weird church to coincide with their bosses meeting with Congress to try and keep their jobs. It was called Operation Showtime.
Warrant was issued because Church had a machine gun. Failed to tell the judge it was registered and the owner was a firearms dealer.
Went from bad to worse. Tanks used against civilians, machine guns used to keep the in the burning building, all the adult survivors jailed.
Ended with a massive cover up by Robert Meuller, including the killing of the inventor of thermal imaging the day before he would testify against the FBI.

Unironically, we ought to just abolish the ATF and repeal the NFA.

Dunno, after the Bundy murder by the FBI i feel they should be abolished too.

>>ATF says Branch Davidians shot first
>>Branch Davidians say ATF shot first

If you watch the raid video ATF inside the building shot ATF on the roof of the building.
ATF claims about being fired on first through the door could not be verified because they removed and hid the door until after the investigation was over.

Also the kids were all killed in a safe room by lethal levels of FBI deployed CS gas that caused their bodies to spasm so hard that bones broke.

bot / distraction / data collecting thread
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But like
Bundy was actually a serial murderer

not sure this will embed but
youtube.com/watch?v=xsDBAixXJdM

Sry, Finicum

More like they needed cause so a package full of "grenades" "accidentally" came open.

False intelligence happens all the fucking time to justify what the pigs or war mongers want. Trump & Russia, Iraq's WMDs, etc.

I pulled the image of google, so don’t blame me for the file name

The militia militant guy?

/Thread

No the Rancher
sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2018/01/27/family-of-rancher-killed-in-bundy-standoff-sues-the-us-oregon-police/

I don't know much, but David Koresh's life seemed fucked up from the start.

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It was a shit test that America failed.

A gun part they had shipped to them in the mail but it "accidently" fell out in the shipping department, turns out it was a full auto/hellfire trigger which is completely legal to own. So they decided it was right to raid the entire compound, they burn kids alive and there are photos of the burned kids bodies if you want to see. Then they make up a story saying that they were pedophiles to make normies feel all better about it and to justify burning kids alive.

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We should just stick to local police.
How the fuck does this happen?

Cooper is the last of the Vanderbuilts, CIA project Mockingbird, and born into an illuminati family.

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Pics of the kids?

On 9/11 a nigger on NBC (IIRC) stated that the towers falling was why they had to ban .50 caliber rifles.
He hadn't received his new set of talking points.

No doubt, shits gotten out of hand.
Yea after i watched that live it lead to 1000s of hours of research. He was one of the people I studied, he was so young back then. I genuinely hope a group of milita men kill him for his lies on air

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Doom Paul had it right. Abolish the Fed. The Federal Govt. that is.

Dave Hardy was a federal attorney at the time. He spent decades working on firearms rights, including pushing FOPA through. FOPA was a massive win for gun rights, to the point that closing the machine gun registry was tacked on as a poison pill, but it still passed.
He also spent years research Waco and had input into both the documentaries.
His site: armsandthelaw.com/ is great for the Waco archives and for a decade of reasoned explanation of firearms law and politics.

>What happened there?
The ATF based out of OK city killed Timothy McVeigh's family and friends.

Crazy idea:
The entire Waco massacre was just an op to get people to more easily give in to gun control measures, because
“Muh ebil militia!!”

didn't Timothy McVeigh carry out his bombing because of what the feds did at waco?

yup

here's some
documentingreality.com/forum/f240/waco-autopsy-photographs-february-1993-a-15113/

Black Lives Matter was created the week that the Bureau of Land Management was forced to stand down against an unorganized militia. They needed to a) Send a message to Republicans that the Dems could also create civilian forces and b) take BLM of the news and search engine results as having anything to do with Nevada.

Sauce first part is highly plausible knowing america second part is at 9/11 lvl of conspiracy

I find it odd that most people I know have no idea that waco, ruby ridge etc even happened let alone the reasons why it was fucked up

>Few years later I found Alex Jones and it's been a wild 25 years since.
Congrats boomer, you've been psyopped by kike controlled opposition.

Alex "Zionist" Jones
Alex "It's NEVER the Jews Goy" Jones.
Alex "The Nazis were the most EVIL people ever" Jones
Alex "Buy my products lol" Jones
Alex "Tranny porn" Jones

Plenty of weirdos out there, a lot seek a purpose in religion. he didn't do what they claim he did and those people did not deserve to die for being isolationist weirdos.
Jow Forums would have no posts if that became wide spread.

True.

This is going to sound dumb as fuck but
Ruby Ridge? What’s that?

>Alex Jones told the truth about Waco
>Told he truth about McVeigh and interviewed FBI whistleblowers
>accurately predicted 9/11
>was 10 years ahead of the Snowden leaks
No i haven't, your neocon talking points are at best stormfag and at worst uncreative. Neck yourself kike, I know AJ personally and he is infinitely more American & truthful than you are.

McVeigh was part of a militia group run by a pair of transvestite FBI informants.
The ATF failed to turn up for work on the day of the OKC bombing.
McVeigh did it, but he was a controlled patsy.
The 2nd bomber who they later denied existed? Name was Jose Padilla. Jose Padilla was arrested in Pakistan in 2002 IIRC, placed in solitary in a naval brig and AFAIK, never let out.

>61 M16 type
>2 M16 type lowers
>61 AK 47 type
>34 AR15 type
>2 AR15 type lowers
>13 Shotguns, 12 gauge
>11 FN FAL types
>10 Ruger Mini-14
>7 35mm Flare guns
>6 .30 M1 carbines
>5 M11/9
>5 M14
>3 Galil
>2 HK SP89
>1 HK MP5
>1 Air rifle
>1 Sten
>23 Beretta pistols
>13 Glock pistols
>8 assorted revolvers
>6 Safari Arms pistols
>5 Sig Sauer pistols
>5 Walther pistols
>2 Taurus pistols

all those guns when all they needed was SCUBA gear and pro masks and a good courtyard for ventilation.

google it. some dude wanted to live in the woods with his family. ATF ended up shooting his wife or some shit

Its not conspiracy. Pretty sure I found all I know linked from Arms and the Law. The adults had gas masks, so they put the kids in a room in the center of the house as far from the gunfire and tanks as they could. CS killed them, then the fire was ignited to hide the evidence.
The FBI prevent4ed ay fire trucks from entering the property until it had burnt to the ground.
Lon Horuchi claimed that his sniper team didn't fire a shot, but after the fact piles of spent brass ere found in their hide.
The FLIR footage showed machine gun fire from the same location, preventing anyone from leaving the rear of the building.

He's controlled oppo, but he did speak the truth about anything that didn't implicate Israel.

Most people get their new from the MSM. It was all memory holed.
Look how quickly Las Vegas was memory holed.

90s ATF time

>Ruby Ridge Summary

guy gets mad over land deal with Randy Weaver
judge sides with Weaver and sentences due to pay additional 21k to Weaver
guy writes letters to FBI/Sheriff asserting Weaver was threatening to kill governor/president/pope etc.
guy tells them that Weaver is a member of the Aryan Nations and has a fuckton of guns hidden
FBI/Secret Service/sheriff investigate and interview Weaver and his wife
Weavers deny allegations
Weaver was associated with Kuminick who was alleged to be Aryan Nations
Weaver states that Kuminick wasn't Aryan Nations but that he was Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord
Weaver reiterates that he is not Aryan Nations
Weaver files affidavit stating his personal enemies are trying to bring the fed down on him

In comes ATF to fuck everything up
Kuminick takes Weaver around and eventually introduces him to an ATF informant
Informant claims Weaver wanted to organize a group to fight the zionist occupied government
ATF claims Weaver sold them 2 sawn off shotguns shorter than min barrel length
Weaver claims that's horse shit
ATF tries to blackmail Weaver to become an informant
Weaver refuses
ATF files charges claiming Weaver is a bank robber with criminal convictions previously (this is all false)
Weaver is indicted on charges of making/possessing illegal weapons
Weaver is let out on bail
Court case becomes a fuckery because Weaver is hard to contact due to no phone
Court date is changed and letter is sent to attorney to give to Weaver telling him new date
Probation officer informs Weaver of a new date (but the wrong one)
Judge issues bench warrant
Judge is told of the fuck up in Weaver hearing the wrong date by probation officer
Judge decides not withdraw warrant
US Marshals decide to give Randy until the court day he knew of to appear in court
US Attorney's office calls up grand jury and tries to get the warrant dropped
They forgot evidence to the date fuck up
Grand jury says go get Weaver for jail now

Alex Jones never names the Jew. His boss is a Jew. His wife was a Jew. That's how you know he's controlled opposition. Even Eddie Bravo called him a Zionist to his face and Alex couldn't say anything. You've been psyopped boomer, fuck off and go mow your lawn you geriatric race traitor fuck this is a high IQ board.

US Marshals decide to treat Weaver as a fugitive
Weaver confused by inconsistent messages from lawyer and government decides to sit tight
Magistrate tells Weaver if he loses court case he will lose his land (leaving wife homeless) and the government will take his children
Weaver believes he won't get a fair trial
Marshals decide to negotiate
Assistant US attorney tells them no more negotiation
US Marshals start surveilance and build a threat profile
US Marshals create a profile basically stating Weaver is a green beret who will shoot on sight and has booby trapped his property
In reality, he's just a guy in a cabin
Media does a flyover and claims he shot at them (he didn't this is confirmed in FBI's after action report) but its used in drawing up rules of engagement

Now comes the fun

US Marshals dressed in camo with night vision and M16s are scouting the property
Marshals' throw rocks at dog kennel
Weaver's son and family friend come out to see what caused the ruckus
They decide to let a dog out and follow it cause they figured it smelt small game
US Marshals bump into Weaver's son and family friend

US Marshals shoot and kill the dog
Weaver's son fires back
Marshals kill Weaver's son
Family friend kills a marshal
Family friend is shot and injured
Everyone retreats

FBI, Idaho national guard, US Marshal's Special Ops all get involved now
Rules of Engagement are drawn up
ROE basically state if anyone has a gun, shoot to kill
Also kill all dogs

Snipers are dispatched before fbi negotiators get there
Sniper shoots Weaver injuring him
Sniper shoots and kills Weaver's wife
FBI Negotiators arrive
FBI Negotiators can't get shit done
Civilian negotiator talks them down and gets Weaver and company to surrender

Randy Weaver was a White Isolationist. He lived in the bush with his family and was broke.
FBI/ATF informant wanted to buy a used shotgun from him, gave him a string and asked him to cut the barrel down to that length first. 1/4 inch below legal.
He realized he had been set up and refused to attend court. They sent a sniper team that shot his son, his dog and his wife while she was feeding her baby.
Lon Horuchi was the sniper. Charged with premeditated murder by the State, the Feds took over the case and released him without trial.
HS Precision employed him as a spokesman for their firearms business and have been boycotted ever after by those who know the story.

Ultimately:
>Weaver acquitted of all charges cept missing court date and does 18 months
>Family friend acquitted of all charges
>Weavers sue the government for 200 million, but settle out of court for 100k for Randy, and 1 mill for each of his 3 daughters
>Family friend sues the government and wins 380k
>Sniper who killed the Weaver wife was charged with Manslaughter
>Feds moved the court case to federal court and got the sniper off due to sovereign immunity

Same sniper was at the Waco siege. The first shots fired on the last day were from the building he was in, and there were three spent cartridges collected from his position however the fed claimed the rounds could have been left by the ATF as they had been there before and that it was impossible to match to said sniper because after the Waco siege he had his rifle rebarrelled.

SO we can’t even just innawoods?

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Innawoods is a Jow Forums larp.

The ATF was in hot water after the 70s and 80s. And then Ruby Ridge happened.

The ATF has a weird history
>Originally part of Department of the Treasury in 1886
>In 1920 a unit is created called the Bureau of Prohibition
>1930 it gets transferred to the Justice Department
>1933 it gets transferred back to Department of the Treasury
>1950s it becomes the ATTD (Alcohol Tobacco Tax Division
>1968 gun control act is passed and we get the ATF as it is now
>1972 it becomes an independent bureau

So how does the ATF start to act:

>1970s
ATF starts generating retarded cases
To quote the senate subcommittee: ""Based upon these hearings it is apparent that ATF enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible."
Subcommittee got evidence that the ATF devoted its efforts on technicalities in malum prohibitum (unlawful acts by statute not anything else)
ATF had been focusing on collectors items
Subcommittee found that 75% of the ATF prosecutions were against ordinary citizens with no criminal record nor intent


Hell, even Ken Ballew was in the 70s.

moral of the story, don't cut shotguns for anyone

The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea. - Mao Zedong
This is how you do it

>Ken Ballew

ATF and local county police plan a raid on a guy
Teenage burglary suspect says there's a local guy who has guns and grenades and shit (Ken Ballew)
ATF decides they wanna raid him too
ATF presses for a warrant
Assistant US attorney tells them to fuck off
ATF presents evidence of an anonymous threat stating "there will be a false call in the area and if you respond you will be shot"
ATF presents this area is known for high crime/frequent gunfire
ATF says Ken Ballew has a misdemeanour for carrying a concealed weapon
ATF says Ken Ballew has registered no grenades with the NRA
AUSA says go right the fuck ahead

ATF dresses in "street clothes" reminiscent of the high crime neighbourhood
ATF completes first raid, doesn't find their target and leaves him a note

ATF claims they knocked and said "Federal officers here with a search warrant, open up"
ATF gets no response but "hears movement"
ATF busts the door in with a battering ram
Ken's girlfriend freaks
Ken jumps out of the bath and grabs an 1847 revolver and rushes to the sound
Ken's girlfriend grabs her own revolver
ATF (in street clothes) see a nude man holding a revolver toward the door
ATF agent 1 fires a gun and ducks to the left
Police Officer 1 fires a few shots and ducks to the right
Police officer 2 shoots Ken Ballew in the face
Ken falls to the ground, his revolver discharges and hits the wall
Ken's girlfriend surrenders wearing only her underwear

Government employees acting like the kind of "people" who would work for a government and be able to live with themselves.