I mean, the USSR was a threat, was capable of fielding monstruos armies and definitely was searching for any excuse to invade Europe. No one can deny that.
But if you observe pic related, things were going pretty well for Third Position parties in Europe. >Franco about to finish the Spanish Civil War victorious >Italy firmly in Fascist hands >Both Poland and Romania desperately looking for allies to hold the Red hordes >To the north, the Baltic sisters and Finland in a similar situation
In fact, many at the time thought that the next great confrontation would be Britain vs USSR over Iranian oil and Central Asia control. Also Turkey was exposed to the old Russian wish of conquering Constantinople.
Why didn't he allied with Poles and Romanians, and tried to get relations working again with the Turks instead of chimping out over East Prussia?
He did ally with Poles. More Polish voluntarily fought for the Wehrmacht than for the Allied forces.
Christian Ross
I mean in a diplomatic sense, oficial allies. He did the same with Spain, supposedly the Nazis hated Franco once they got to know him well.
At least Ribbentrop said that the Hendaya talks went sour because Franco wanted to carve up French North Africa for Spain. In which I don't understand why would that be a deal breaker for the Third Reich?
Spain ended up sending 70.000 volunteers, but it was too late.
He did ally with Poland. Piłsudski and Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia together.
Hudson Thompson
It's because he was an idiot with as much foresight as and average user here.
Jace Davis
He did ally with Poland. Poland and Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, and Poland got back the land the Czechs took during the Soviet-Polish war.
Charles Bailey
Piłsudski died in 1935, Poland only played a minor role capturing a couple of cities on its border. Hungary took like half of Slovakia.
I can easily picture Hitler being a sperg like many here. Just that spergs actually saw sunlight back then. Still, he rushed with evidence on his face that it was not the best idea.
Juan Carter
Accelerate
Adam Hughes
>Why did Hitler rushed things up? The red fucking army on his border
Logan James
>More Polish voluntarily fought for the Wehrmacht than for the Allied forces. There was not a single division. We were never allied either.
What a disgrace to your education system you are.
Thomas Ortiz
Lol wat
Oliver Reed
It was a surprise. Stalin couldn't believe that Hitler betrayed him.The lack of preparations on the Soviet side was one of the many reasons why Wehrmach did so well in the beginning.
Lincoln Cox
Bro, you can't be fucking serious. You can't seriously believe that Stalin didn't expect his only potential rival to srike him next after most of Europe had been dealt with. It's not a widely taught fact that russkies had their armies preparing to strike on the border, because le ebil nazis couldn't have struck a pre-emptive blow. They have to be the aggressor for the modern narrative to work. Despite this, stalin was preparing for war, obviously. Finland was the test-run and showed that they needed more time.
Hitler struck earlier than he wanted because the debacle in Finland showed them that the russkies weren't ready. It wasn't a surprise to anyone tho, that war was already written on the wall.
>Despite this, stalin was preparing for war You are 100% correct. The soviets needed 1.5-2 years to arm properly but they majority of their forces weren't stationed at the border the same way the Arab forces were stationed in the 6 day war with Israel. Hitler had more time. He apparently lost the battle for Stalingrad by a margin of 5 divisions. Imagine what the industrial German war machine could have done in a year or the amount of people they could have recruited and moved in from the volunteers in the Western countries.
Hudson Gray
Ok, I'll rephrase: The "betrayal" wasn't a surprise to anyone, it was expected from one or the other. Hitler happened to realize they were better prepared at the time and decided to act, probably thinking time wasn't on their side. Stalin was surprised by the timing, not the act itself.
Here's a discussion between Mannerheim and Hitler: youtube.com/watch?v=B8WHyeyItm8 No doubt Hitler exaggerated the numbers, but I'm certain that the Germans were taken aback by the scale of preparations on the soviet side.
Bentley Hill
>Hitler had more time. Fog of war. >He apparently lost the battle for Stalingrad by a margin of 5 divisions It wasn't only this tho, there were several mistakes by the wehrmacht.
>Imagine what the industrial German war machine could have done in a year or the amount of people they could have recruited and moved in from the volunteers in the Western countries. I'm not convinced that the soviets wouldn't have profited from this relatively more.
Samuel Ward
All neddet to be prepared. Thats why England and France didnt help poles and czechs (both were disarmed by economic crysis). German army 1939 were much better then any other army was. All countries were starting to arm themselves and there was fear in every country, so this war wasnt started by single Hitler or Stalin
Jayden Reyes
It wasnt a surprise. Soviets did a mistake in strategy, because they didnt know nothing about new german strategy/tactics (it was kept in secret even after 1940). Every country has a plan on each situation, so takes about soviets which didnt expected the war are stupid
Matthew Ramirez
Agreed
Eli Lee
It is not about number of recruits. Sucess comes after well armed mobile divisions. Germans lost all the potential (by losing veterans in mobile divisions) in 1941, and lost all industrial potential after it. The war isnt clash of clans or agario
Hunter Torres
Finland wasnt a mark for test battle. Soviets didnt trust anti russian finnish goverment and wanted to replace border line, because Leningrad is a huuge target. But winter war still be a huge tragedy and shame in russian minds, even after new patriotic propaganda started by our goverment
Logan Morris
Its not a propaganda, its a fact that you invaded Czechland with Hitler, you stupid Cziczcheczhslav
Andrew Gutierrez
You're telling me that you won by quality and quantity?
It's debatable whether oil from Stalingrad area whould've changed anything, nonetheless, the "betrayal" was a wrong word to use.
Christopher Collins
You're saying that Poles fought FOR the Nazi army?
James Martinez
There are not quality in fucking modern war. The ONE thing you can do with wermacht 1941 is to stay on your place and dont move. But if you use tactics from Great war, you will think that it is better to fall back, when you see group of tanks behind you. Thats why Dunkirk was a complete failure, compare to Kyiv, which was a huge tragedy, but it saved moscow. Few things about quality. Do you know something about badass german tanks? There are mixed feelings about any army, but german army won Barbarossa only because of potential of fresh mobile divisions. They lost their potential - they started getting huge casualities. I can not imagine french casualities if they had try to fight agains germans btw.
Ethan King
There is no quality*
Landon Jones
polan occupied northern parts of Slovakia. It just shows that you were not victims like finnish people in 1939
>Finland wasnt a mark for test battle Yea, but it ended up showing the soviet military capabilities, or lack thereof to Hitler and to soviets themselves. Staling thought they could have practically driven straight to the large cities and occupied Finland. >Soviets didnt trust anti russian finnish goverment and wanted to replace border line, because Leningrad is a huuge target. Obviously, you had your reasons. >But winter war still be a huge tragedy and shame in russian minds, even after new patriotic propaganda started by our goverment Good.
Traitors is the reason thats I am not right? Fuck off then degenerate, I dont need jewpedia to show you my amazing chad WW2 wisdom, go play EU4 pshekislav
Elijah Bailey
So much rejection. Hehe. Facts hurt pride of mighty khan?
Christian Perry
Because his goals were always to the east. He was working on borrowed time. He managed to improve the economy, but that was mostly due to his military projects. Franco was looking at a decade of rebuild after the war, maybe more. Mussolini, who was something of a hero to Hitler, was a has been at this point. They wouldn't have been ready even if he delayed the war for five years. Then after the war started he couldn't afford a prolonged occupation of France and a long war with Britain, because he was going low on oil as the Romanians and Uncle Joe wasn't giving him enough and he was burning reserves. The main problem was his intel was bad regarding the USSR. They underestimated them due to the Winter War fiasco and even in the Winter War by late january - early february the Soviets learned from their mistakes. Hitler himself admits to Mannerheim in their 1942 conversation that the war is lost.
Owen Brown
These were parts of our territory that were taken by force. You don't seem to know enough to decide who is the victim and who is the perpetator especially in the mess that the XX century was.
The point still stands. Poland was one of the only countries where Germany didn't create a volunteer arny unit. They managed it in Ukraine and Russia somehow.
>There are not quality in fucking modern war You were losing based on quality mate. You had the numbers, they had the quality. Kursk is probably the best example. They destroyed all the tanks you started with numerically and you still had more at the end of the battle.How? A constant supply from factories producing equipment non-stop.
Colton Nguyen
He had no oil left.
Aaron James
>Why didn't he allied with Poles and Romanians, He tried to ally with Poland for years and did work with the Romanians, go back to school, Paco.
Jaxon Wright
How suprising, Russian protecting landgrab made by Czech during Polish war against Soviets.
