Question

Why do we need Jesus then if we can just be good?

infinite torture

I'm not sure. All I know it's at least orthodox dogma. might be in the bible or early church tradition.

I mean I see youre just playing devils advocate and trying to trip people up and make them lose faith.

The thing is the answer to that question is in the bible itself. If you want even read it yourself, then it speaks for you.

Of course most people have a good nature and will try to help you anyway, but you betray their kindness by trying to poke holes in their faith and damn them along side you.

theyre reborn as fat cheetos eating amerimutt and theyre forced to larp as pagan online for all eternity

Typos from phoneposting, excuse me.

>souls
Souls aren't real things. Really, how could you walk from one end of the room to the other and have a soul ghost stick to your bones? What's a soul made of? No, it's fake.

>I mean I see youre just playing devils advocate and trying to trip people up and make them lose faith.
Actually I am just looking for answers, cunt.

>The thing is the answer to that question is in the bible itself. If you want even read it yourself, then it speaks for you.
Where's the answer then? Cite it in the Bible, it's a simple request.

No. They will be given the chance to accept salvation. God is just.

Because we don't always know what is Good. We need a shepherd. People are herd animals. The church was formed to safeguard this knowledge as dogma.

It sounds like you haven't been to middle school, bro.

This isn't intelligent or funny.

Dante wasn't even half as smart as consuls in Roman Republic.

They simply cease to exist.

Its more complex than a simple answer. The bible spans a massive timeline and completes many "cycles"

In the case of man kind. The fall of man started from Eve (a woman) but Adam (partook of the same tree) so he is also fallen at a certain point.

God wanted to offer a redemption arc however to save as many as he could and destroy(not torture) the rest. That redemption as we know was to have divinity born of a flesh and blood woman. The one and only time any divine being was made flesh. (Though demons often make their spawn into flesh) Once that happens the rule of game changes, Christ is your ticket to redemption and if you deny him you deny your salvation.
It was also told that everyone in the world would hear of Christ and be able to make their decision. So there are no more excuses in the modern era. In the era before christ the rules are a bit different because the times were different.

This is the extremely paraphrased version and its a lot more fleshed out than this but you have to study that for yourself. This is the shitty Jow Forums post answer for you.

18 to post here

not sure what he's talking about. But proto-christ appears in the bible as "The Man". He challenged Jacob the Liar to a wrestling match and broke Jacob's hip to dust. He was a complete badass and way too OP, so God had to nerf his abilities. The Man was a bad motherfucker.

Judged on Judgement Day, likely going to hell because they didn't worship the Jewish God.

Our heavenly father,
I ask you forgiveness not only for me but for the poor, misguided souls browsing this website. Please take the hatred from their hearts and fill them with your love. Protect our homelands as we sleep and let us thank you each and every day for giving us the gift of life.
Amen.

big time amen

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We know that God is capable of working in mysterious ways beyond our capabilities of understanding on this earth. It is why it is tradition in most churches to pray for the souls of the dead and the damned.

When it comes to the issue of aborted babies, for example, it is generally understood they will be given the opportunity to come to Christ, and that this will be much easier for them than it would be for a man who had lived a full life of sin and who manages to come to Christ on his deathbed.

Dear Lord, our heavenly father,
I ask you for forgiveness of not only my own wing-doings but the wrong-doings of everyone browsing this website. Please Lord take the hatred from their hearts and fill them with your love. Watch over us as we sleep and let us give thanks for this beautiful life you have given unto us. Let us rejoice in your name and live eternally in your kingdom. Forever and ever, Amen.

Cessation is a heresy. Souls being eternal is a core Christian doctrine and just because you can't stomach the idea of eternality doesn't make it not so.

>This isn't intelligent
Yes the fck it is. What's a soul made of? Can it be detected? Answer coward.

>18 to post here
Coward deflects my questions.

Sorry. Didnt think the first post went through

are you asking for PHYSICAL PROOF of a METAPHYSICAL concept? KEK XD

>my intentionally vague book written by ethnic jews can have any meaning needed extrapolated from it at any time, in any point in history to make it applicable to current events
>what do you mean christianity is subversive and jewish?

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Bro theres a whole old testament where they deal with God the father before Jesus ever lived, reference there

because you know better. youve been warned. they werent

JUDGES

>are you asking for PHYSICAL PROOF
Proudly, yes I am. The soul isn't real without proof.

Good question.
Let me just fetch my battery powered radioshack soul detector and we can find out...oh, wait!

How did pre-Christ pagans know what is good?

>We know that God is capable of working in mysterious ways beyond our capabilities of understanding
>know

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>What's a soul made of?
God
>Can it be detected?
No

So what happens to them then you fucking moron?

Jesus will reveal himself to EVERYONE. ALL the dead will rise before tribulation. All humans get a chance at one point in either their lifes or death before the resurrection.

They could have converted to Judiasm. The knowledge and wisdom of God is imprinted on every heart at conception, in other words, everyone is conceived with a soul from God.

theyre waiting for judgement day. Death is like sleep. you die in the morning and wake up and meet christ in the evening. Theyll probably accept christs salvation. Meanwhile people like you will deny him to his very face. this is all in the bible of course. theres a little chapter about people looking up to heaven from hell feeling sorry for themselves.

Its not vague at all. Its just a lengthy read and cant be explained simply.

Which is why simpletons like you still havent read it. You love easy black and white dogma. Hitler = Good, Jew = Bad, if not racially based discard thoughts. The possibility of reality being more complex than that frightens you because youre a slacker who doesnt want to have to apply himself.

But then again Im just stereotyping based on your type of poster and larpagan nonsense. Its the most simplistic view to hold and thats why its so comfortable for you.

can you prove the existence of capitalism without physical proof. it doesn't need physical proof to exist. like numbers they simply are. concepts like strength and speed only exist because GOD made it so

>because GOD made it so
and because God has magic power, I see.

they will be reincarnated into a mutt and will have genitals mutilated so they can finally accept jewsus

That which cannot be measured is not worthy of discussion....Newton
(A very clever christian)
see pic related

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Just gonna leave this here and move on.

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God has the power of existance you fool! He is the master programmer. The author of the story. The laws of thermodynamics are HIS laws. Reality is what god makes it.

god has unlimited powers. trying to find god in this world is like trying to find the existence of Shakespear by searching for his character in his books. GOD is the author and creator. he was, is, and shall forever be. eternal

Amen brother

The same thing that happens to pagans today that die in unbelief in the true God - judgement and hell.

>>.216319539
While we're at inventing the magic God, why stop at one? Why not 51? Is it because One is better than 51?

1+1= What ?

Lots of answers, only one is correct

>what happens to the souls of the pagans

nothing, just like the souls of the christcucks

religionlarpers BFTO

You sound like a pedantic retard, but I assume you might be honest.

There's ways of finding these things out. Through either revelation, wisdom or rationality. Though not all things are capable of being understood in a single way obviously.
Christianity, quite simply is the most complete system/collection of Truth.
Some pagans got some things right, few probably got most things, they will all be judged nonetheless.

Jesus was like Henry Kissinger, he was here for a short time and life before he was employed to passify the jews didnt exist

>Lots of answers, only one is correct
There are incorrect questions like "how many gods are there?" that imply there are such things as gods.

They were in a place called "limbo" which is void of light up until jesus came and redeemed humanity's sin.

The Primary Mover is God.
Lower beings, above us but below God, may exist, but are inconsequential beneath the One.

>The Primary Mover is God.
things move on their own, no help needed

>rationality
It's not rational to believe in supernatural beings. It's insane.

Of course it's all random...

1 Peter 4:6

>For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit

The 'Big Bang' didn't move on its own.
And what situated the laws of physics such that the formation of matter, let alone life, was possible at all?
Why is there something, rather than nothing at all? Physical reality cannot tell us this.

I think it depends on two things. Whether they searched for the truth about God, and whether they obeyed their conscience. I don't know where exactly they are, but I don't believe they will burn forever simply for not knowing about Jesus Christ.

>proto-christ
youtu.be/V_hEhOW1yc4

Your obsession with sky daddy and where your soul goes after death will be your undoing

Also, John 5:25

>Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

jesusneverexisted.com

There was no Jesus, so your question is irrational.

pretty much this. Christkikes are fucking cancer.

>christians did not hate their ancestors
lol yes they fucking did at least the ones whom converted willingly. the others who were forced didn't.

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>The 'Big Bang' didn't move on its own.
Why not?
>And what situated the laws of physics such
What does this mean? Is this a valid question?

All that is rewired for survival is faith in the heavenly father.

Many have had faith prior to Jesus.

Thank you, user. You’re a good fella to think of others and it’s appreciated. God bless you and yours, too.

skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

REPOSTING OLD GOOD ANSWER

dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdeVer14.htm#11
Ok on Virtuous Pagans.
SOURCE:
St. Thomas Aquinas Questiones Disputatae de Vertate
dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdeVer14.htm#11
Here's the question posed by a man to St Thomas
>>Many Gentiles were saved before the coming of Christ, as Dionysius says. However, they could know nothing explicitly about the Redeemer, since the prophets had not come to them. Therefore, explicit belief in the articles about the Redeemer does not seem necessary for salvation.
The rest is ST Thomas' reply to the man
>
>We must note, accordingly, that there are some matters of faith which everyone is bound to believe explicitly in every age. Other matters of faith must be believed explicitly in every age but not by everyone. Still other matters everyone must believe explicitly, but not in every age. And, finally, there are things that need not be believed explicitly by everyone nor in every age.
>However, in the time of grace, everybody, the leaders and the ordinary people, have to have explicit faith in the Trinity and in the Redeemer. However, only the leaders, and not the ordinary people, are bound to believe explicitly all the matters of faith concerning the Trinity and the Redeemer. The ordinary people must, however, believe explicitly the general articles, such as that God is triune, that the Son of God was made flesh, died, and rose from the dead, and other like matters which the Church commemorates in her feasts.

CONT.

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>Granted that everyone is bound to believe something explicitly, no untenable conclusion follows even if someone is brought up in the forest or among wild beasts. For it pertains to divine providence to furnish everyone with what is necessary for salvation, provided that on his part there is no hindrance. Thus, if someone so brought up followed the direction of natural reason in seeking good and avoiding evil, we must most certainly hold that God would either reveal to him through internal inspiration what had to be believed, or would send some preacher of the faith to him as he sent Peter to Cornelius (Acts 10:20).
>Although it is not within our power to know matters of faith by ourselves alone, still, if we do what we can, that is, follow the guidance of natural reason, God will not withhold from us that which we need.
>he Gentiles were not established as teachers of divine faith. Hence, no matter how well versed they were in secular wisdom, they should be counted as ordinary people. Therefore, it was enough for them to have implicit faith in the Redeemer, either as part of their belief in the faith of the law and the prophets, or as part of their belief in divine providence itself. Nevertheless, it is likely that the mystery of our redemption was revealed to many Gentiles before Christ’s coming, as is clear from the Sibylline prophecies.
Guess who believed in the Sibylline Prophecies? Augustus. That's why he was so honored thorughout Catholic history

Found the answer on this old thread
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/199338538/#199355975

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Stayed in Limbo, will be judged later on on the content of their lives

Virgil is one example of containing sibylline prophecies. So this is not just hearsay but there are actual pagan sources you can read that contain these things. Ovid is another by the way both had Augustus as their patron

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Amen

Paul states that if on judgement day you stand at the gates and understand the truth, FIND someone, anyone and repent.

>let me claim all of this as christkikery
fucking die already jew worshiper.

Tacitus and Pliny the Younger on the Early Christians:
The originator of the name Christ was executed as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius; and "Though repressed, this destructive superstition erupted again, not only through Judea which was the origin of this evil but also through the city of Rome to which all that is horrible and shameful floods together and is celebrated."
westmont.edu/~fisk/articles/TacitusAndPlinyOnTheEarlyChristians.html
archive.is/v3vXu

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Because people are inherently selfish and confuse what ‘feels good’ with what actually is good.

Humans are also social creatures that fear social exclusion since social exclusion usually leads to death.

It is why you get a bunch of virtue signallers seeking approval from others saying it is good to sterilise children with hormones. They want to be seen as ‘tolerant and inclusive’ because their social group has deemed those things to be values. They will call anyone that goes against them evil, but they are the ones pushing their evil onto confused and innocent kids to make themselves ‘feel good’.

Jesus taught the difference between selfishness and selflessness. True good is selflessness - where you work to benefit someone else with no benefit to yourself. That is the only form of good you can pursue. Everything else is driven by your pride and ego, and will harm others. You cannot have that level of humility without God above you because you have no reason to attack your own pride otherwise. Jesus puts a face on god so that we can emulate his selflessness in order to contain our selfishness. If you want to know what the world looks like without these ideas, look to Communism, Islam or Judaism. Pure selfishness and corruption through-and-through.

Animus deorum Romanorum Graecorumque omnia tempora vivet

Because a bunch of businessmen (preachers) told you so.

What a clever little hominid you would have made.
youtu.be/btpczTQ-wP0

>Because people are inherently selfish
weird how you didn't address what he fucking sad you dumb faggot. If we were good prior to some jew telling us what to do. Then how are we now magically inherently selfish? Go fuck yourself jew worshiper.

How do you justify your belief in immaterial objects? Time, identity, good, truth etc?
Either you have an objective realm, as opposed to the ontologically fluid realm of matter, or you can't know anything, know anything, exist as a person etc.
Most of these key concepts your world-view is built around are in this sense "supernatural", so kill yourself, disgusting pleb fedora.

Stop being a retard.

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There are multiple contemporary accounts from people who personally knew Jesus - like Peter and James.

Tacitus and Josephus are both well regarded historians that wrote secular 3rd party accounts of Jesus. Tacitus was also a senator and on the council responsible for managing religions in the empire. It was literally his job to know what was happening, even if he didn’t believe it or consider it significant.

Jesus was a very real person and a local celebrity in his 30s leading to his death. You can argue that he didn’t perform miracles, but you can’t argue that he wasn’t real. There is more contemporary documentary evidence for him than for Hannibal and he was a great military leader.

It's like being a good citizen but you racked up some parking tickets. The Law sees you as a generally decent person but you still gotta pay and answer for some things, as long as you're willing to cooperate with the Law

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>Forgetting that Julius Caesar was responsably for LEGALIZING JUDAISM IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE. And Augustus FUNDED THE JEWISH TEMPLE under HEROD AND THE SATURNIAN TEMPLE IN ROME

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