In threads about religion, a lot of people’s reasons or arguments for rejecting a life of serving God are not answered adequately after being presented. In this thread, tell us about the philosophical obstacles that are preventing you from choosing a life of submission to His will. I hope people will join me in answering others’ questions without insulting people or resorting to otherwise low-effort tactics. I will start with explaining how I rationalize the problem of evil, which is the most common argument I hear against God being all-powerful and all-compassionate. The question is usually stated something like “If God can do anything and loves us, why does evil exist?” My response:
God allows Satan to whisper into our hearts and tempt us. God knows that His true, believing slaves will ultimately choose Him instead. God knows that which we do not, but I see no flaw in a world where worshipping God is the act of overcoming evil temptations for the sake of our Lord. The Angels are designed to worship Him at all times, but our love and fear of God is special because we must overcome Satan on the road to salvation. Do you not agree that the quality of our relationship with God is due in part to the fact that we could have followed evil? Isn’t the quality of something being good and pleasing dependent on the fact that you are experiencing that thing instead of something that is unpleasant? God knows best, and the existence of evil is necessary for His believing servants to not only experience real pleasures in this world, but also to sincerely show their Lord that they deserve Heaven for choosing Him over Satan’s whispers. God made the universe this way, and it was done out of love.
I have a question. How do you have faith in God, despite the fact that we are individually incapable of coming close to understanding Him and what He wants? Why believe anything that has ever been said about Him if humans have no way of understanding Him at the higher level that would be necessary to even come close?
Basically, how can a mere human such as myself personally experience God in a meaningful way, and how can I trust any other mere humans about what they believe?
Ryder Diaz
I have low tolerance for falsisms, so I can't do any abrahamic religion, and further, I have a low disgust threshold so I can't put my nose that near another man's ass and feet. And I don't like lamb either. I could probably only do shinto or something like that. But it would get boring quick.
Jaxson Cooper
looks like balls and a small dick to me
Juan Perez
why do you worship Muhammed and why do you kiss a black stone?
Wyatt Jones
God is indeed incomprehensible, but we are not meant to comprehend Him as He is. Instead, we can experience His Glory and Lordship through His Creation. Look around you and see the Signs and Proofs He left for us throughout His Perfect Creation. Whether it is the beauty of natural phenomena, the complexity of atomic structures, or the countless other signs that remind us that He is God. You don’t have to even come close to understanding Him in order to have a special & close relationship with Him. He shows us His many Perfect Attributes through His vast Creation.
Don’t know who to believe? No mere human can communicate flawless Truth without it being a revelation from God. Is something that a righteous person regards as completely True not a Sign from God itself? That is why when people produce works of perfect guidance that a righteous recipient identifies as such, they know that it is a revelation from their Lord. Only God can open your heart to the message; not everyone is capable of identifying the Truth from their Lord when it comes to them.
Of course, God knows best.
Noah Green
If we're so base, why believe your own thoughts - even your doubts? Maybe you're not as base as you think you are, but actually created in His image.
How can you experience God? Ask Him to share. By virtue of His nature as perfectly holy (complete) you can't give Him anything. Rather, all is His to give. You don't deserve it, but ask and receive. Just be ready, because you need may be entirely contrary to what you think you want.
Seek truth and you might find comfort. Seek comfort and you will find neither, only soft soap, wishful thinking, but in the end, despair.
>God Now that almost everyone has a camera phone, we know that the God does not exist. For if he did, we would have gotten a flood of photos and videos of him by now.
Dylan James
You can’t take a picture of God. You can take a picture of His Creation, which is filled with His Signs and Evidences that attest to His Lordship. See
Chase Gonzalez
Stop believing in fairy tales
Evan Fisher
>Signs and Evidences Why don't these Signs and Evidences attest to the work of many gods?
Ryder Miller
1. Con-artists claim that what is their own will is the will of g-d, and this is everywhere because if it was the will of g-d and not their own, it'd be extremely unpopular politically to have so all of the people following a greater will would be repeatedly overwhelmed by all of the people following a lesser will. Therefore this dialectical thinking favors the lesser will time and time and time again... so the struggle isn't between Allah and Satan, but between the individual person and all of the people around him following the lesser wills. So the real question is, why create a world where the lesser will prevails time and time again?
Christianity answered this problem before Islam existed by saying flat out, "The world is fucked up and full of evil and full of shit, and you will be a minority if you live in the truth and good." Christianity has a viable solution because of the "On Earth as it is in heaven" fix this world mentality versus the Islamic focus on the next world, which supports all of the bad people who benefit from everything being a mess.
It's all economic, Protestants revolted from the Catholics because they wanted more money. Sunnis oppressed the Shias because they wanted more money, the rich tribe that oppressed Mohammad (peace be upon him) and monopolized Mecca in the pagan days ended up taking over after his death because they wanted more money.
Jayden Martin
Theological counterpoint: that symbol looks like a ball sack.
Gabriel Morales
That’s a question that is asked a lot. There cannot be multiple gods. Who created those gods? Who created that creator? Who created that creator? It is a paradox that goes on infinitely. There must be one Creator who, beyond our comprehension, has always existed and always will. We can’t understand how that is possible, but it actually makes more sense than the premise that there are multiple entities that independently came into being from nothing. Think about it, and eventually you will realize that an infinite, incomprehensibly perfect Creator with no beginning or end is responsible for Existence. There is no such thing as non-existence, since something cannot come from nothing. God is One God, and He is Eternal and Unique.
Jeremiah Howard
How about multiple entities with no beginning or end? Making sense doesn't matter because this is just fantasy, inventing gods with the imagination.
Jaxon Torres
If multiple gods came into being, there would have to be some kind of source from which they came. That source would also need to have the capability to craft such complex beings, making that source even more awesome than what it created. You would want to worship the thing that created the gods. Don’t you see how that doesn’t make sense? After that, you would wonder about the source responsible for the source that created the gods. The only thing that makes sense is that God has always existed, and anything created is not worth worshipping, when you could be worshipping the Eternal One.
Luke Adams
The only thing that makes sense is that multiple gods have always existed. If there was only one God there would have to be some kind of source from which it came.
It's all invention and fantasy.
Landon Thomas
You say that there would have to be a source from which God came, but something that came from a source isn’t actually worthy of being called “God,” because it’s not actually Him. You would worship the source. Then, you would realize that the source you worship came from a greater source, and then worship that one. That goes on for infinity, and cannot be the case. You would logically always want to worship the ultimate Source, which is God. It cannot actually be the Ultimate Source unless it has no beginning. Do you understand?
Oliver Baker
The multiple gods all have no beginning. If they all have no beginning then each is it's own Ultimate Source. No rule says there's only one Ultimate Source. Who says?
Matthew Ramirez
You say each god would have a source. Each source came from somewhere. You immediately fall into the same paradox of source creates source creates source over and over again, each source being more powerful. Only the most powerful source, the Eternal, Ultimate Source, is worthy of worship. He is God. Why choose a source that is part of an illogical, infinite chain of “sources,” when you eventually realize that the Ultimate Source cannot have a source, because then it’s not actually the Ultimate Source. None is worthy of worship but God. He created everything, but was not Himself created. We can not comprehend Him, but His existence is proven by existence itself.
Samuel Gomez
that are preventing you from choosing a life of submission to His will What makes your god any more real or right than the others
David Rodriguez
We don't worship Muhammad and we kiss the black stone because it is the Sunnah of the Prophet. We do not belive the stone has any power.
Aaron Martinez
Use your God given intuition to determine which is right.
Caleb Sanders
>tell us about the philosophical obstacles that are preventing you from choosing a life of submission
I'm not a cuck, I believe in a Divine being, but I don't believe he/she wants us to submit as that sounds moe like what a demon would do
Jose Gonzalez
The multiple gods, all of them, are all equally powerful, eternal, and ultimate. They all have no beginning, no source. Together, these gods created existence and are worthy of worship.
Joseph Robinson
My God is the Creator of all things, but was not Himself Creator. I attribute to Him only what He has revealed. I identify a revelation as that which is completely True, a flawless reminder of the fundamental Truth that has never changed. When I read the Quran, I believe it is from God because the Perfect Wisdom behind its Message and composition is self-evident, and I find nothing but the Truth in its pages. If you think you can produce a comprehensive guide to salvation that has no trace of human fallibility, then go ahead and try. You will not be able to do it.
William Nelson
*He was not Himself created
Ian Perez
First of all, you implied that God has a gender. Glory be to Him, He is above and beyond such human constraints. We use “He” because that is the default pronoun in Arabic. Why would you not trust the All-Compassionate, Ever-Merciful, Eternal, Irresistible, Unique, Perfect Creator to submit to Him in gratitude and total worship. We are His slaves, that’s it. You can run and hide and pretend He isn’t your Master, but we all die and return to Him. You ultimately don’t have a choice, but I am pleased with my Lord because He is Just and Wise, and I love and fear Him.
John Torres
chaos worshippers, the lot of you. Your culture, your lands, your religion all revolves around death and chaos. 'Bend your knee to me that so my God can set you free!' 'submit to god for he will rid you of your demons!' Is it not possible that you yourself worships a demon? the world is created by balance, and your god has already killed all others. It killed mine, and it seeks to kill more. How can such a god of goodness seek only to conquer and eliminate culture and the beings of other? Only one answer to that question is that you worship Entropy, which seeks to swallow us all. You are no prophet of good! you are a prophet of an ancient fire god that seeks to burn us just as it burned your lands!
Joshua Fisher
How can they be ultimate if they are their own equals?
Josiah Cox
More masculine than you, Timothy
Oliver James
Read my previous responses again and maybe you will understand. The “gods” you keep talking about are themselves created. God is not created. That is what makes Him God.
Matthew Price
My gods are the creators of all things, but they themselves were not created. The world is evidence that they exist. They are all worthy of worship.
Dominic Brooks
All of the world Is based on balance. Every ultimate is countered and matched. This is how the world has always been. Its not absurd to think the heavens work the same on a higher scale. if they didnt, they wouldve solved us by now, no?
Austin Powell
I don't believe in your religion. I believe other things, things that work and produce results, as opposed to things that must be LARPed.
>The “gods” you keep talking about are themselves created. No, my gods are not created, they are ultimate, with no beginning.
Landon Walker
>every ultimate is countered and matched Can you give some examples?
Isaiah Wood
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your entire religion is based on a leap of faith. You believe in something without any evidence.
Furthermore if you would actually read what is written in most holy texts, with only a modicum of critical thought, you would find it is full of stuff that makes no sense.
Following that, why would I submit my will to a bunch of people, proclaiming to be the representatives of a fabrication? You do not submit to a god. You submit to an ideology, giving it your money, your mind and in some cases your life. You are the definition of a mindslave.
Remember, the Koran said Mohammed flew to the moon on a horse and cut it in half with his scimitar. If that does not make you question the validity of your holy text you are completely indoctrinated. You can see the moon every day. People landed on it. Nobody can, and ever will cut it in half with a scimitar.
The moon was cut and then rejoined. There is a literal scar along the length of the actual moon. >you submit to an ideology An ideology is a set of beliefs and ideals so yes. >Muhammad rode on a flying horse Why is it unbelievable that God would present an unknown creature to Muhammad? The notion of being ultimate yet equal to another force means that you are not ultimate.
Parker Collins
Read the Quran. Maybe you will understand, maybe you won’t. It is full of Proofs that are explained in ways that no man including myself could never compete with.
Jacob Powell
>There is a literal scar along the length of the actual moon There isn't
Kevin Hill
And here we have it, the madman. Enjoy a life of servitude cuck. If you would think about it for a minute you would come to the conclusion this is complete nonsense.
Ad hominems again and again. My servitude is only to God not to any man on this earth right now. In that way I am more free than an atheist.
Nicholas Torres
>The notion of being ultimate yet equal to another force means that you are not ultimate. No, they are ultimate together. They share the quality of being ultimate. They are the ultimate gods.
Samuel Allen
A scimitar doesn't produce meteorite craters, it produces a somewhat clean cut
Angel Williams
We believe because God allowed us to recognize His Word as the Truth. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. If you read the Quran, maybe you will see it for what it is like I did and other believers. This life is a test and you will surely fail if you don’t even give His final Revelation a chance.
Connor Bell
Ultimate definition : being the best or most extreme example of its kind, the best achievable or imaginable of its kind Your Gods having equals means they are not the best example of their kind therefore not ultimate.
Colton Nguyen
There is no scimitar involved. Muhammad just asked God to do something and the moon was split in response.
Cooper Evans
I once pissed and now the earth is covered on oceans.
Daniel Peterson
I don't think you did since you aren't God.
Anthony Brown
I see what you’re trying to do, but your premise isn’t convincing. I serve the One who was not Himself created. It doesn’t make sense to praise entities that came from something powerful enough to create them. It has to be God. If it’s not the One that has always existed and always will, then it isn’t worthy of worship. Thus, I am aware that only God is worthy of worship.
Ian Thomas
Neither is the god of the quran the real god.
However I AM GOD, I am one with god, and I have experienced this through mystical practice.
You cannot imagine how wrong you are, both in beliefs and on their metaphysics.
I believe in Eastern Philosophy, and an omnipotent, omniscient God with clear morals makes no sense whatsoever in that framework
Juan Mitchell
>Your Gods having equals means they are not the best example of their kind therefore not ultimate. No, they are the ultimate team. Among themselves they are equal, but among teams they cannot be matched, they are a league called the ultimate ones.
Jose Peterson
Show me you are.
Grayson Russell
So they are not ultimate themslves but the sum of their parts is ultimate? Then wouldn't the ultimate force in this context be born of incomplete forces? Meaning there is something that exists prior to the ultimate.
Sebastian Martin
You were created, so you are not God. If you died right now, that isn’t the paradoxical “end of everything.” You are created and you die, and God will recreate you before you meet Him like the slave you are.
>It doesn’t make sense to praise entities that came from something powerful enough to create them. It has to be God. No! The entities did not come from something. Nothing could be powerful enough to create them. They are the eternal ones, uncreated.
Austin Williams
muhammad was a bullshit prophet and demon posessed
turn to Jesus Christ before it's too late
Michael Morales
That fucking picture looks like some spoocy ancient diagram on how to perform a circumcision
Andrew Peterson
If the creators require no creators then they are by definition also not required in order for things to exist
Matthew Hughes
If I died right now I'd ascend to heaven as a god whom is part of God.
Samuel Lewis
France was a mistake. Muslims will outnumber you because your joke of a nation can’t replace itself demographically. Your simple insults are merely the dying breath of the rotting carcass that is France.
Jack Roberts
Ask your god first, I promise to do a miracle on the same scale.
You are claiming that which you have no knowledge of. You are nothing but a slave, and you will either submit or enter the Fire. I have no control over your fate, and neither do you. God created you, but you do not share His flawless Attributes. There is none other like Him.
Andrew Cox
>So they are not ultimate themslves but the sum of their parts is ultimate? yes >Then wouldn't the ultimate force in this context be born of incomplete forces? no. It's like multiple gasses in a container, each gas fills the container and is not incomplete. >Meaning there is something that exists prior to the ultimate. no
Logan Torres
>you have no knowledge On the contrary, I'm the only guy here who knows what he speaks about.
>slave mentality blah blah
No such thing
>I have no control
Neither does your god
>God created you
I'm a part of god, as eternal as god
>the divine attributes
Your god isn't even divine
Christopher Sanders
>In this thread, tell us about the philosophical obstacles that are preventing you from choosing a life of submission to His will. /PAGANG/ in the house
>If the creators require no creators then they are by definition also not required in order for things to exist I do not understand this reasoning.
Alexander Nguyen
AHHHHH
Christopher Hughes
I have read the Koran and it does not age well against observable reality, just like the bible, etc. Flying horses and genies are Disney tier garbage. If you believe I'm this shot you have the mind of an infant.
Henry Long
And yet you still believe Zwarte Piet got black skin from chimney ash and not melanin.
Hunter Gutierrez
You seem to think that just because you can articulate a premise, then it has value, but it is neither valid or sound. You are calling created entities “ultimate,” but ignoring the fact that their source is more ultimate than them. I am equating the Eternal Creator with the concept of that which is ultimate, which does not logically break from what “ultimate” necessarily implies. You can’t just call something “ultimate” when your premise also implies that it was created. Only God is the Ultimate Source.
Joseph Miller
The premise does not imply it was created.
Jose Garcia
>things require a creator If that's true, then >the creator requires a creator Unless he doesn't, and if that is the case >the creator can create itself, no creators needed By the same logic >the universe can create itself, no creators needed You can either conclude that the Universe is it's own creator, that there are no creators, or that there is an infinite number of creators creating themselves
Brayden Young
Are you the guy who makes these very shitty and uninspired pagan memes?
no I m just some guy who decided that I was the /PAGANG/, no previous affiliation
are you a muzzy?
Jaxon Green
>You are calling created entities “ultimate,” but ignoring the fact that their source is more ultimate than them. No, they have no source more ultimate than them. >You can’t just call something “ultimate” when your premise also implies that it was created. My premise does not imply they were created. That's not true.
Nicholas Peterson
No, I am a spiritual person, I have peculiar ideas, close to gnosticism in some sense, close to taoism and yoga in other sense.
Eli King
Then does the creator require a creator, since he is implied to also have a beginning?
Luis Howard
How do I know my intuition is right?>self-evident Ya blew it
Not if you only go by his assertion, but he presented multiple “gods” that came into existence. He says they are independently the ultimate source, but that doesn’t make sense logically. Whether he says they are “ultimate” as a collective unit, or individually “ultimate,” neither assertion makes proper use of the term “ultimate.” The Ultimate Source cannot have a more powerful origin because it is the original entity by definition. Therefore, it cannot have been created, which implies many other incomprehensible Attributes that we can understand only as much as He allows us to. There cannot be anything more powerful than God, because it would have to be created by Him to even exist in the first place.
Levi Clark
I absolutely believe in a higher power. I will never believe in some sand nigger, desert monkey religion that was mistranslated by degenerate butt fucking Romans.
Colton Myers
>he is implied to also have a beginning? In what way is this implied?
Blake Cruz
Nobody believes in black Piet but children...
Allah is black Piet for grown ups.
Cooper Martin
Well, if a creator can exist without a beginning, so can anything else, including the Universe, right? Therefore if everything has a beginning, and it began with a creator, the next logical question in line is "where did that creator begin?"
Blake Sanders
Please green text where user claimed >he presented multiple “gods” that came into existence >He says they are independently the ultimate source Just so I can be clear with what language is being used.
Landon Sanders
> Muh He as a pass because he is eternal
Chase Anderson
Can you imagine how much Muslims laugh at your cuck state when they realize that the Zionist faggot Geert Wilders, hiding in cowardice, is your final boss? Netherlands won’t even exist in a few decades with such incompetence and weakness.
