Legit Discussion

Typical an-com leftist here, looking to bridge the gap and actually discuss issues. Seeing as how the left and the right tend to stay in their own circles online, with only the most extreme of viewpoints making their way out, there is a lot that never gets actually debated or asked.
So does any one on Jow Forums have actual questions for a lefty? Or want to debate anything civilly?

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Trumps not that bad

Every president has been bad. But many of the issues with trump would have happened regardless of who was in the Oval Office.
Constant warfare, unchecked corporate lobbying, wealth disparity, and all the other tools of the elite.

an-com doesn't make sense. The first page of Tarrents manifesto is likely where we will agree. Even ethnic homogeneity, if you had to pick a homogeneous society or a multi-racial one which would you pick? The social stuff is where we will disagree trans "ppl" are abominations, we shouldn't promote being gay and feminine, ban porn, enforce strict monogamy and have a stricter enforcement of all things that change social values.

the smart ppl on this board are old style leftists as in strong regulatory state and a progressive tax bracket.

Can we have Church millitancy too? If you add that, i'll come help build your ethnostate

>Or want to debate anything civilly?
Most lefties operate on the premise that human nature is positive and people are inherently good. Why they hold onto this I do not know.

>t. Juden

>Typical an-com
Um... no faggot.
>everyone is so different they can't organize
>I'm typical

why do you obsess about glorifying homosexuality instead of actually standing up for the working class

Police are required to enforce rule of law and suffer bad optics because news media profits more from outrage and suffering. You could sum up all police brutality reports for the entire country and it barleys holds up to the total violent crime reporting in Chicago alone.

Why do you hate police? I have police in my family and they're personally some of the hardest working kindest people I've ever met.

Right there with you brother.

No, because you cant argue with a real lefty. Just like you cant argue with a alt-right.
You can fool around with them, larping some ideology shit, but if it gets serious, no chance for a good debate.

>Just like you cant argue with a alt-right.
Well they don't exist so...

bootlicker or cop you are fukken glowing dude

How anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of economics could support communism is beyond me.

>fukken
We get it, you're 14 years old and a meany cop took your skateboard

They have childish beliefs about human nature.

And we are going to purge them all.

>Typical an-com leftist here, looking to bridge the gap and actually discuss issues.
Lol imagine being an anarkiddie come back when you arnt a faggot enabling Jew loving parasite.

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Why do you think it's ethical to kill someone who dares to own a milling machine?

What are the racial demographics of your location?
I grew up in Oakland CA.
I know that blacks are wildly more violent than whites.
I'm betting you don't live with any significantly statistical portion of blacks, or you're not white to begin with.
In my experience, the more leftist a person is, the more white a neighborhood they come from as many white leftists are incapable of fathoming the truth about blacks.

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>Typical an-com leftist here
No you're not, if you were you wouldn't be here willing to discuss things. You're an outlier.

I don't think that people are inherantly either good or evil, but i think that conditions of upbringing impact morals. Someone who goes without during their childhood, or someone struggling to survive will be more likely to commit evil.

I'm not opposed to religious communes in most cases. I think the amish are a great example of a mostly autonomous commune that still coexists with those around them.

You're thinking of liberals pushing identity politics over matters that affect everyone.
I want an end to billionaires, liberals/ dems want half of dems to be queer/ trans/ black/ ect.

If police were overall about protecting and serving that would be great. They need more accountability for their actions instead of being above the law.

Has your girlfriend ever fucked you with a strap on?

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>You're thinking of liberals pushing identity politics over matters that affect everyone.
>I want an end to billionaires, liberals/ dems want half of dems to be queer/ trans/ black/ ect.
i understand that trotskyists are old school leftists, but they are a minority and nobody really cared about them now or before
these new leftists are some weird young marx foucaultian pop culture mix

Nope.
But my dad has.

Faggot

Are you a faggot?

>An-com

Why do all of your "comrades" want white ethnicities to go extinct, by means of race mixing or just not having children?

What is the ideal organization for a productive activity that requires both capital (equipment) and labor of multiple individuals?

How should the voluntarily unproductive be handled?

How can resources be efficiently allocated to necessary projects?

I'm not sure the exact data, as the county census is skewed with rural data, but my town is roughly 30% black and probably another 15% hispanic based off my graduating class. Its a suburb of NYC so a large portion of the nonwhite population is from there, whereas the white population is mostly local over many generations.
I get that the data you posted is supposed to imply a racial problem; that all those issues are inherent to one's race. That is all correlation though and has more to do with the poverty and tough conditions those people grow up in.
I don't think there are any real mental or behavioral differences based solely on race.

I just don't like any individual or entity to have more power over people than the people have over it. I believe in a base line equality. I don't think people should have a harder life based on race or sexuality, nor do I think they should get special merits for those things in society.
I remember when obama got elected, how so many people thought things would be radically different now that the president was black, yet it remained the status quo for the most part.

I don't want any ethnicities to go extinct. However I don't have any strong relation to ethnicity or my whiteness. I don't have a strong attachment to any sort of culture, so personally its a little bit hard for me to understand people's attachment to whiteness.

>strong regulatory state

Begone, bootlicker

i think economically we would agree on most things
problem is that i dont want my kids to be forced into attending sex education and i dontw ant lgbt marches around the town and i dont want my religion to be shut down because you folks have an ax to grind so i usually side with capitalists even tho i dont like them

>Constant warfare
So far Trump is the most peaceful president in modern time. It’s really sad that this does not get more recognition and encouragement.

>progressive tax bracket
Cryptocommie.

>I remember when obama got elected, how so many people thought things would be radically different now that the president was black, yet it remained the status quo for the most part.

radically different how? Hard work gets results, taking handouts makes you lazy. More handouts just mean more lazy. You TEACH a man to fish.

What younger people don't remember, and schools don't teach you, was that there was a time that black fathers stayed with their families, blacks integrated into society, owned stores, were landlords and their communities were strong. This was all over the country. You'd have to look up old Malcolm X videos where he talks about what the democrats were -starting- to do in befriending the black man by giving handouts and X saw it was the beginning of destruction of the black family and communities. The handouts made the government into the new black father- the once-loyal black father couldn't compete with government programs so why bother? Jews came in and bought up housing from black home owners, becoming absentee slumlords and everything changed to rental. Communists fomented civil disturbance and race riots over 'you should be welcome into white businesses' which made blacks shun their own neighborhood businesses by demanding entry into white businesses. Once the black family was destroyed, you ruin the next generation of men by pushing crack into the hoods.

What would have been radically different under Obama, was for O to preach black strength, families, communities and self-sufficiency again..how they had succeeded when they had it..

I think you recognize the rich elite. This destruction of black society and family was done on purpose. They are the canary in the coal mine though, and now the same tactics are being used on white people to take society further into destruction. Whites don't 'own' personal power, let alone over another race. They just weren't tricked into not using personal power as early as blacks were.

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Ideally things are organized by those who need them. Local communities repairing their infrastructure cooperatively. Capital and labor could be shared depending on the scale of the project. A small rural town could repair potholes themselves but a larger project such as a bridge might need the cooperation of the larger county area.
Voluntarily unproductive is a strange concept as almost everyone i've met wants to do something, it just might not be whatever menial task they do to survive. I think the increase of automation will alleviate alot of the need for people to do unwanted labor and finding work that is better suited to the person will help alot. People will be able to spend more time on personal interests and hobbies and may find something productive from that.
I personally support small scale capitalism after the base line, like cuba or USSR under Lenin. If someone wants to make wooden chairs or paint for a living they would probably be able to.

>You TEACH a man to fish.
This would be a better analogy if there were a fair amount of fish in the sea, however what is the point of teaching a man to fish if all he can catch is guppies.

>I think you recognize the rich elite. This destruction of black society and family was done on purpose.
I disagree that handouts and desegregation were the downfall of these communities, but you have a point with the rest. Black communities (especially those that were more or less self sufficient) have been sabotaged completely through drugs, higher incarceration rates, lowered funding, targeted attacks (the bombing of the MOVE center in Philadelphia)
I feel that decriminalization of nonviolent drug offenses, as well as a more equal sentencing structure would help a lot.
Your last point stands, that these things are now happening to whites more often than before in history. Without having a population to scapegoat as the poor underclass to be stepped on, the lines blur across ethnicity.

>personally support small scale capitalism after the base line
What does this mean? What is the delineation between small and large scale capitalism? Are employees allowed? How many?

Police are terrorists and everyone knows it, so what is the actual anarchist alternative to police?

Trump is amazing. There will never be a perfect person. Ever. Someone will always do or say something you don't like. That's a fact. Trump just happens to be the best there is.

Ancom: everyone will be nice, workers will not commit crime because the ultimate cause (the bourgeoisie) will be removed.
Ancap: has no issue with police, provided they compete for clients on the open market like every other service provider.

>workers will not commit crime
Who are your workers, robots? Humans are flawed. Stop expecting the best

The issue with police is with their raised standing. A cop gets away with more and has more authority than the average civilian. That is what needs to change. There would still be some sort of justice force of course, but they would absolutely not be able to get away with what police do now.

Why do ANTIFA encampments always become so rife with RAPE? I know several women who have left the movement and every single one of them cite sexual assault as a primary reason they leave. The girl I know best once told me that during major extended actions such as Occupy style events that sexual assault begins almost immediately after Police are withdrawn from the area by City leadership.

I'm pretty neutral on ANTIFA but this fact alone makes me openly laugh when I see them show up to movements and call people sexist rapist racists..

So I guess my question is why do you guys get so rapey when left to your own devices?

Fair enough. But it wasn't guppies. My point is that the government handouts made the black father worth less than the handout. The black father had been catching fish-good fish that were as good as fish the white man caught. True, they had been out of slavery just 5 generations but were not only functioning in society but thriving in it.
Then the gov under LBJ came along and said 'you don't need to fish, we'll give you fish.' Blacks starting defecting from the Republicans who had given their lives to free them from slavery, and to the party that started giving them fish.

Later the democrats, to outdo themselves and get even more votes, gave the black women without husbands MORE fish than they gave to the women who had husbands. This made black fathers worth $0 and destroyed black families utterly.

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ANTIFAs sole enforcement method is violence, intimidation, and blackmail against those that don't conform.

How in the world would you possibly suggest that ANTIFA would be capable of introducing a superior method of enforcing morality?

>Voluntarily unproductive is a strange concept
Not really. Most work is less enjoyable than leisure. There are lots of jobs that aren't enjoyable, and that nobody (or at least, far too few people) would want to do. There are also lots of jobs that people will do happily that aren't really useful or a good use of resources. Think of how many people would happily be professional artists or musicians, if they were compensated regardless of skill. This is the problem with your "do your hobby as a job" suggestion - most of those people would still be voluntarily unproductive, even if they were working non-stop. And even with the argument that people inherently need work to feel happy, that doesn't mean they want to work as many hours as needed. I teach at a high school, and I generally like my job, but I'd like it even more if I had longer breaks, more days off, more flexibility, etc.

How do you enforce anything in an ancom society? Who decides who has what role?

anarchy is no gov't, communism is absolute gov't. How do you reconcile this and call yourself an-com ?

>trotskyists are a minority
Not true. We just call them neoconservatives now.

>hate cops
>hate the 1%
>hate israel
the far left and the alt-right have alot in common. Such a shame the commies want to abolish private property

>even with the argument that people inherently need work to feel happy, that doesn't mean they want to work as many hours as needed. I teach at a high school, and I generally like my job, but I'd like it even more if I had longer breaks, more days off, more flexibility, etc.
Thats the goal really. Many people are kept from following their passions because all their time is taken up working jobs they hate. Yes there are jobs that need to be done but doing a job is more satisfying when its done for the greater good than to make some rich fucker even richer.
Every alt-right ive seen is too authoritarian for my liking. I'd willingly work along side with an-caps and libertarians for the sake of bringing power back to the people. Ending coorporate lobbying, ending tax havens, making government officials accountable, all are things that the majority of the population supports yet falls to the wayside in political discussion.

I'll address what i feel is the heart of the difference. Do you believe it's possible to live without violence and suffering, or even reduce suffering significantly?

I am skeptical that civilization has actually improved life for people but as I see it the left wants more civilization in the sense that civilization is the separation from nature. Sometimes anarchists seem anti civilization but if you're left wing, your not a primitivist, since that seems like the most reactionary position you could have. So how do you think more and accelerated processes of civilization and modernization will lead us to a point where the consequences of those processes become different than how they've been so far? Will it only happen via modifying the human organism itself?

To me all civilization seems like an ever increasing technology of enslavement that just becomes more inescapable and subtly integrated and that's why I identify as reactionary.

Anarchy isn't no government, its no hierarchy. Noone rules over another. Governance could be small local town councils that any citizen could be a part of, or representatives that answer to the people

>abolish private property
Well yes, but that doesn't mean that we're coming for your toothbrush. There is a difference between private property and personal property.
Private property is owned and operated for the profit of the owner. Land that is mined for its resources, factory to make goods, intellectual property and copyrights, stuff like that
A large farm is private property, but a garden is personal property.

Do you think theres poverty for some reason other than them all being violent shit skins?

>Typical an-com leftist here
shut up fed

you just described a hierarchy though. The whole point of a council is to give people a degree of power.

>No hierarchy
I’m afraid hierarchy is completely natural. Leaders are natural. Tens of thousands of years of nature shows is that every group needs a leader

Why do you think a Jew in office would be a good idea? Bernie seems like the most dangerous candidate ever in most of our books.

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>Do you believe it's possible to live without violence and suffering, or even reduce suffering significantly?
I chose to believe it mostly. I know I'm being an idealist and that my goals aren't very likely to pan out in the long run, but its a dream I have to believe in. I'd rather die working towards a better world than live under the foot of tyranny.
I'm not too sure about primitivism, but if groups of people want to live off the grid they're welcome to.
I think the strength of humanity and what allowed us to survive this long is our ability to come together for common goals, so it depends what exactly you mean by civilization.

yes
The difference is whether that leader answers to the people. How often does the government go against what the people want with no recourse?

I'm futher left than his policies, but its at least a bandage. The rich need to be taxed, the environment needs to be saved.

That's very civil of you.
Neocons need to leave the board.
I don't think you'll get a reasonable discussion/argument here. Try 8ch.

Even in your ideal (fantasy), a public servant is beneath the public. A hierarchy is still established.

How are they below the public? They are they public.
This has been reasonable enough

>Seeing as how the left and the right tend to stay in their own circles online
Actually the left are all constantly swarming over here on Jow Forums trying to poison our well. But they don't get that it's already poison. Pissing in an ocean of piss and all that. You will never win.

I'm not trying to win anyone over, its just rare to see where the actual differences lie between the left and the right. I think you and I (and most people on the internet) have more in common than either of us have with the super rich.

Anyways I'm off to work, thanks for the discussion.

The difference is that the super-rich want to kill me, and they want to pay you to help them do it.

Some people produce at higher rates than others. How do you propose to re-distribute the benefits of the higher productivity to those with lower (since you're a lefty)? Now what if the whole, lower-productivity world wants in on this action, and floods in? What do? How do you stay liberal? Work, money, and self-discipline don't grow on trees.

unironically kill yourself

>Typical an-com leftist here

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I would join this anarcho-commie idiot in squashing your police family members. Police are the first line of footsoldiers for authoritarian kikes.

It's not my ideology, m8. Their beliefs are as stupid as it sounds.