Many conservatives claim to value principles, and the vision by our founding fathers of a democratic republic. The integrity of our democratic republic is the root of America's success as a nation and it should go without saying, that it's more important than consolidation of partisan power. But the party has lost sight of this and is threatening the integrity our democracy and representation.
Despite losing the popular vote in 6/7 of the last presidential elections, there are four main ways Republicans hold power. Voter suppression Gerrymandering Money in politics Outdated institutions
*For the People Act of 2019 (H.R. 1) would have improved campaign finance reform, anti-corruption standards, and voting rights. It was blocked by the overpowered Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
They get away with this under the bullshit guise of preventing voter fraud. Getting struck by lightning is more likely to happen than voter fraud. Loyola Law School professor Justin Levitt looked at 14 years of voting and found, at most, 241 fraudulent ballots out of 1 billion. washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/03/heres-how-rare-in-person-voter-fraud-is/ Every story about rampant voter fraud has been thoroughly debunked
Outdated institutions The senate and the electoral college made far more sense in the 18th century when states were more autonomous, distinct, and disconnected. A citizen who happens to live in Wyoming now gets 68x more representation than a citizen living in California. Decisions made by the Senate apply to all Americans, so as a federal body that governs all Americans, it should represent all Americans as equally as possible. This would not lead to a "tyranny of the most populous states" because the votes from Democrats in both California and New York made up just 10% of the total votes in the 2016 presidential election. It's ironic to claim that by living in a smaller state you would be a marginalized group that needs affirmative action. Under the electoral college system, the presidential candidates spent 98% of their time in the 12 swing states because the rest of the country doesn't matter under a winner-takes-all system.
Michael Rogers
This all seems very based to me. Shitskins didn't get to vote in the last and shouldn't get to now.
Im sorry but since you suck bbc your voice cannot be heard
Julian Harris
Popular vote is mob rule, prove me wrong
Wyatt Carter
Every civil rights victory
Zachary Thomas
all representation is arbitrary at least gerrymandering allows both sides to wiggle things you absolute knob
William Perry
yes fuck the electoral collage! LA California and new York should decide the fate of america!
Eli Turner
What does that even mean? Gerrymandering allows a minority group to hold disproportionately more power. Even the people who draw the lines admit this.
Matthew Diaz
>if the institution doesn't support my party it's outdated
Michael Sanders
>What does that even mean? What does what mean?
>Gerrymandering allows a minority group to hold disproportionately more power. Yep, thanks for agreeing with me agreeing with you, maybe you wanna point out the problem.
Brody Morris
>if I can't understand an argument, I resort to logical fallacies
Tyler Carter
Step 1: Import a bunch of migrants and indoctrinate them to be Democrats Step 2: They shit out more Democrat children Step 3: Bitch and moan to the other states that their power is bigotry and they should give it up
Jace Thomas
>voter suppression Asking someone to show their ID to vote isn't suppression
Julian Adams
You entire argument is an appeal to majority fallacy
Tyler Ward
lol you're a total kike. GTFO
Anthony Cook
Intentionally writing Voter ID laws in such a way that it creates a disincentive for targeted populations is voter suppression.
Juan Kelly
Don't most gerrymandered districts nowadays exist to allow black communities to elect their woke retard nigger congressmen who think florida's floating in the ocean?
Oliver Murphy
In theory the only thing it ever did was allow people proper representation.
>be nigger >can literally do nothing right >anything not spoonfed directly into your mouth while saying "here comes the gibs train! choo choo!" is bigoted suppression of natural rights standards are racist
Wyatt Ward
India has voter ID Mexico has voter ID
Xavier Phillips
>Despite losing the popular vote Presidential elections are not decided by popular vote. The electoral college is made so that citizens from less populous states can be represented and heard. Using the popular vote, all politics would be determined by the most population dense cities which are also the most politically homogeneous
Ayden Wilson
Get the fuck out of here with your copy-pasted garbage. Also, NPR and thinkprogress, kek.
James Reed
Niggers having representation at all is improper.
Jason Collins
Gerrymandering was invented by Dems. Just so you know.
For what reasons should less populous states have a significantly larger say in the outcomes of the nation as a whole? Can you think of any specific examples?
Zachary Sanders
food matters more to you not dying than jewish financial schemes if you can't understand that, you may be a literal retard
Aiden Baker
For what reason should a handful of states have majority rule?
Ayden Sullivan
why should populous states import millions of foreigners and grant them citizenship and thereby establish absolute electoral majority?
Tyler Rodriguez
Your spamming requires a Jannie.
Carson Cruz
>Washington Post propaganda. Tyranny of the majority is not a good thing.
Chase James
>tfw shitlibs currently living under the yoke of rural and suburban retards
It's wouldn't be about states at all, It's about each citizen having equal representation. Also, it's not like CA and NY are 100% Democrats. Around 35% voted R in 2016,
Ethan Moore
>Implying any of this matters anymore Every single last migrant in your country will vote blue, along with half the white population
Gavin Price
>Despite losing the popular vote in 6/7 of the last presidential elections THE. POPULAR. VOTE. DOES. NOT. MATTER. You midwit. Democrats engage in all kinds of shady behavior with respect to the legitimacy of elections whether it's flipping states through illegal immigration, giving driver licenses to illegal immigrants and then registering them to vote, ballot harvesting and so on. Fuck off.
Michael Phillips
the pres should always be the popular vote let states govern themselves
How is ballot harvesting illegitimate? Isn't that just when someone goes and collects absentee ballots?
Oliver Powell
For what reason should the most populous states get the most control? Why is 1 person 1 vote inherently good >inb4 appeal to the majority fallacy
Kevin Evans
How much did the russians spend to influence out elections?
Jose Turner
They gerrymander our taxes. White man pays most of it, but can not get a simple thing like a wall built while billions of his tax dollars are gerrymandered to Israel.
Isaac Brown
Within those states are a collective groups of people whose ideologies, interests, and needs may vary from groups of other states. By allowing the popular vote you are giving states with the highest concentration of people, who are likely to share the same views, more power over far less populous states. Should the ~39 million people of California have absolute rule over the ~500 thousand in Wyoming? I admit that the electoral college is not perfectly fair, as you have pointed out. However, I think it is a better solution for representation compared to the popular vote.
Eli Robinson
Once again, it wouldn't even be about states. That makes no sense. For example, why should something be illegal on a FEDERAL level, even though most people in the US are against it? >Why is 1 person 1 vote inherently good I don't even know how to explain this because it's so fucking obvious.
Jaxson Martinez
Civil rights was one of the biggest failures in American history. The country has only gotten worse since then.
>I don't even know how to explain this because it's so fucking obvious.
Its obviously untrue you mean. The United States was a federal republic of united states, not a democracy drawn from a common pool. The reason for electoral votes and equal representation in the Senate is because true power isn't held by the people, but by the States who comprise the Union. You don't vote for the President. Texas, California, and Utah do. The States are not mere provinces or economic zones. The fact that federalism has gotten so rampant soon people will be crying 'why do we even need State law?' is atrocious.
And thats before you go into universal suffrage completely destroying the national project.
Joseph Cox
1st of all OP. The founding fathers never had the vision of America being “democratic.” If you’d have read The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, you’d know this. 2nd: Gerrymandering is not. Strictly a “Republican problem,” you can bring up North Carolina but as the Supreme Court has rule. Election maps are State Specific issue not a federal issue, empowering the states to fix their shit. For reference 9th and 10th amendment of US Constitutional Law. 3rdly and most importantly, why do you refuse to stop sucking dick?
Cameron King
>I don't even know how to explain this because it's so fucking obvious. Not an argument
Andrew King
>maybe if I just explain why they're bad, they'll come round to my way of thinking You're being naïve, you sheltered fuck. Your whole mode of thinking is borne out of naïvety; all political parties (that manage to achieve a modicum of success) engage in what you call "anti-democratic" practices. Drop the manichaean, holier-than-thou, hero complex bullshit and then we can discuss politics like men.
We know you don't really like the dems either. We know you're simply trying to undermine what you see as his base here in order to stop him winning another term. It's pathetic and transparent to anyone not living in that bubble with you.
I suggest you take heed of what I've said, regroup on the discord, and try again tomorrow.
Christopher King
>believing in jew conspiracy theories lol
Can you stop acting woke? Yes, it's an oligarchy and corporate media moves the masses. Enough people are seeing this for progressives like Bernie to become mainstream.
Brandon Bennett
If the electoral was abolished as you so desire republicans in highly populated deep blue states would have a reason to vote again, and you would likely still lose.
Carson Cook
I did say it's not strictly a Republican problem, they just do it significantly more. Why the fuck would a state prohibit themselves from gerrymandering while everyone else is doing it? The only reason the SCOTUS ruled in favor of gerrymandering, split along partison lines, is because it benefits their party.
James Russell
Here's an analogy. I get 68 cookies and you get 1. Why is each person getting the same amount of cookies inherently good?
Ethan Murphy
Here's another analogy. You have no say in running the country because politicians only court a handful of coastal cities to get elected. Why did you leave the Union?
Ian Hall
Ok, let's just allow politics to devolve into everyone being apes with no rule of law, principles, or respect for norms. Is that how men engage in politics?
Josiah Anderson
All institutions and customs exist for the purpose of promoting good governance and outside of this purpose have no value.
Noah Nelson
That's fine. As long as it's fair
Anthony Hill
Who fucking cares? Democracy is for faggots
Joshua Kelly
Republicans and Democrats are both left-leaning, but also a TV show act. Republicans are just a tiny smidgen to the right of Democrats if you were actually to give a shit about the two-party system paradigm. There are no longer any actual right-wing parties in the united states.
Michael Anderson
Niggers and spics (and Jews, of course) want mob rule. Intelligent human beings want the constitutional republic to remain in place.
Nathan Rodriguez
>Bernie >got rekt by the stablishment >said nothing like a bitch and endorsed the establishment The fact that people are still supporting hypocritical ideologues says wonders about the validity of a democratic system
Luis Young
Hello /ptg/ Jew
Hunter Lopez
>voter suppresion Only citizens can vote, end of the question. what is holding me back from hiring 100.000 of foreign people to come and vote for me in key districts? Dumb liberal
Nolan Nelson
>Voter suppression Hasn't happened in decades
Ryder Garcia
Didn’t read, faggot. >muh principles Left ain’t got any of those. This is 2019. In politics you win by any means necessary.
Finally someone who made me think. The top 9 states hold 50% of the population of the US, and the gradual population difference of the 9th and the 20th most populous varies by a factor of 3. So, the flaw in this argument is that presidential candidates would court each state more equally than they do now if it were based on population rather than swing states. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population
The fact that people think Bernie is a hypocrite for backing the candidate closest to himself on policy says wonders about the effectiveness of propaganda.
Xavier Johnson
Just because more people say something doesnt mean that they are right.
>Recently the SCOTUS ruled in favor of gerrymandering... I really like how you say the court ruled for gerrymandering instead of saying what the conservative justices actually said, that it would be impossible for a court to impartially decide what constitutes gerrymandering since the extreme case is obvious but differentiating degrees is hard and it's also not the job of the courts.
>Trump lost the election by 3 million votes. Right, and that matter since we are a direct democracy, just like our founders intended. Wait...
>The US has been falling on the democracy index and is now considered a "flawed democracy." Your link says it precedes trump and this is more of the fault that both parties are incapable of agreeing on anything. This is not something you can solely blame on republicans.
Lincoln Hernandez
So instead of one person getting diabetes it's two? Your arguments are circular >why is everyone voting good >because everyone gets to vote
Matthew Lee
Tell that to the conspiracy theorists infesting this board.
Adam Reyes
You mixing up both deontological and consequential arguments. First you say everyone voting is inherently good, but then you claim if it doesn't happen we have no rule of law, principles or respect for norms.
If something is inherently good, then there needs not to be a justification based on consequences. If there is a justification based on consequences then the goodness is conditional on results.
Christopher Murphy
tl;dr lol.
>mfw this bitchy little faggot won't stop shitting his pants because of president trump
>and managed to hack into a few of them proof they hacked more than the DNC with their usual vote rigging antics been going on since the days of Tammany Hall
Daniel Reed
>*Higher voter turnout generally means Democrats win, Reagan
Bentley Russell
The overton window has been shifting left for the last few decades. It's amazing how leftists have been getting everything they've ever wanted, but are still unsatisfied and demand to change systems so they have absolute control.
Juan Wood
>what is holding me back from hiring 100.000 of foreign people to come and vote for me in key districts? voting machines made in Israel
Samuel Rogers
Fuck democracy.
The people themselves lack the understanding of what is needed.
> Gerrymandering I am a decent fan of the way our electoral commission works. It's very firmly isolated from the political side of the government, and neither side is willing to break the truce over it being so. Redistributions tend to optimize for electorates being as marginal as possible, based on historical voting patterns - the idea being to make it possible to sway a seat vs having the seats be permanent extremes one way or the other Borders follow "natural" boundaries where possible. Obviously, the motivation for redistributions occurring in the first place is population shifts. No point redistricting where the population and demographics have been stable.
Of course, our system is also heavily optimized for Single Transferable Vote/Instant Run-Off/Preferential Voting, and for mandatory voing, so that makes a difference, but having the boundaries decided by a politically neutral body can only be an improvement.
