What are Libertarians thoughts on unions?

Parker Bennett
Parker Bennett

What are Libertarians thoughts on unions?

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Other urls found in this thread:

economics.byu.edu/frandsen/Documents/nonrandomelections2.pdf
csun.edu/~vcecn007/publications/Unions_and_Employment_Growth.pdf
www2.gsu.edu/~ecobth/Fraser_Union_Performance.pdf
deltafa.org/pdf_library/do unions help the economy.pdf
sole-jole.org/15566.pdf
eh.net/encyclopedia/hours-of-work-in-u-s-history/
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=5589
youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ

Alexander Russell
Alexander Russell

Libertarians should be supportive (or at least permissive) of any voluntary association, unions included.

It's when membership is forced and/or they're given special privileges from the government that makes libertarians chafe.

Gabriel Long
Gabriel Long

I don't believe in the non aggression principle so I believe that they should be exterminated and all members killed. Also they are a front for the mafia.

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Colton Roberts
Colton Roberts

Unions would be fine IF AND ONLY IF they were a legitimate fully voluntary association of workers. unfortunately unions have abused democracy to vote themselves a shit-ton of favorable legal treatment that allows them to basically run the company they are a part of into the dirt. Stuff like right-to-work erodes this ill-gotten power away from their dark jew masters which is why they scree so hard and immediately fall back to their most basic of jewish tactics whenver it is mentioned.

Joshua Fisher
Joshua Fisher

I've never met libertarians who were opposed to unions. Not sure why anyone would ever make or post that cartoon. It's pretty much a giant strawman. Pure demagoguery.

Nolan Mitchell
Nolan Mitchell

people making unions
fine
unions lobbying government for changes that benefit them and hurt others
gay

Parker Robinson
Parker Robinson

Libertarians are Anarchists in denial.
Do you also have issues with the government making it illegal for people to strike e.g. Taft-Hartley Act?

Leo Butler
Leo Butler

Lobbying the government for higher wages is bad
That's stupid. Why do people like you exist? Shit, dumbass people like you should be choked until your brain is starved of oxygen.

Tyler Watson
Tyler Watson

wahhhh the gubermint won't bully my employer for me wahhhhh

Ryder Wilson
Ryder Wilson

unions are excessively protected by regulations

Ultimate collection of "why unions are shit" researches:
economics.byu.edu/frandsen/Documents/nonrandomelections2.pdf

csun.edu/~vcecn007/publications/Unions_and_Employment_Growth.pdf

www2.gsu.edu/~ecobth/Fraser_Union_Performance.pdf

deltafa.org/pdf_library/do unions help the economy.pdf

sole-jole.org/15566.pdf

eh.net/encyclopedia/hours-of-work-in-u-s-history/

ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=5589

Educate yourself.

Austin Wright
Austin Wright

I'm a libertarian and I was in a union once.
They try to get you to support stupid policies. They give tons of money to democrats. They bitch about stupid things. They hook you up with some sweet paychecks and bennies, though, too.
Politics isn't why I left. But the fact that I despised their politics certainly made it easy.

Nicholas Carter
Nicholas Carter

Yeah right to work is more or less the one singular regulation on unions that actually makes sense and protects people. Everything else is corruption and the union laws are the biggest instrument of economic oppression today. Pisses me off when I hear "15 dollar an hour minimum wage!" it's fucking awful. Awful decision for the economy and everything. There should be no minimum wage, but unions. With unions you'd actually get more money, and the playing field of big business vs small business would be leveled out greatly. Everyone would be able to compete. It would be a genuine "free market".

Of course, we have a lot of foreign competition from places like China and that is what drives a lot of the justification for our draconian economic policy. And it isn't "BS". I mean when China overtakes us they are gonna fuck us hard.

Sebastian Carter
Sebastian Carter

So the way they end up after a generation or longer anywhere they've been tried? They grow like a business to become too big, then either push for communism (Europe) or become the high-financiers (Australian union superfunds). At least the vision of the business as an organization isn't quite so hypocritical.

Wyatt Lopez
Wyatt Lopez

Wages are an agreement between the employer and the employee. Lobbying the government for higher wages should be stupid, because the government should not be involved in that, other than when it hires people itself.

Jordan Perez
Jordan Perez

Libertarians generally favor right-to-work at least in principal.
Unions absolutely HATE HATE HATE right-to-work. So there's that.

Jonathan James
Jonathan James

Do you also have issues with the government making...

I didn't finish reading the sentence before i decided i was against your statement

Kayden Martinez
Kayden Martinez

All those papers say unions are shit because they increase productivity and pay workers more. That's a dumb ass argument. Basically, union busters are angry their workers are paid better.

Leo Hernandez
Leo Hernandez

I am not anti-Union as long as participation is voluntary, but I am curious about a few things:

The United Auto Worker's Union (UAW), despite being a fifth of what it was in the 1980s, still rakes in nearly 300 million dollars a year in revenue from dues. The AFL-CIO at a 97 year low in participation, 200 million. Even in the 80s when their collective influence was much greater-and as the phenomena of outsourcing to the east and illegal immigration were in their infancy and presenting a looming-and ultimately realized-threat to the working class across the country not a penny was spent by either of them developing competing manufactured products or creating businesses based on the principles to which they purportedly ascribe. There is no Union factory, Union concept car or Union heavy machine industry, at least that I'm aware of. Why not?

Do Union employees really make that much more? It's said-and I believe correctly-that Union employees do make more money on average, however it's also true that most Union members are older by about 4-5 years. While it might not seem so at first glance, this is significant when deferring to generalized averages because older, more experienced workers are typically paid more regardless of their Union status as common sense (and a search engine) will tell you:

Age: 25-34 Average Weekly Salary: $793 Average Annual Salary: $41,236
Age: 35-44 Average Weekly Salary: $986 Average Annual Salary: $51,272

Union employees are also primarily employed in the Government public sector (35%~ total public vs 6%~ total private) which are completely unprofitable as our legendarily high deficit can attest, in those instances they should not be included in any such discussion.

What is a Union's place in a globalized world? Are they an important part of a labor ecosystem or just puffed-up parasites taking far more credit than they're owed?

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Jacob Hernandez
Jacob Hernandez

what's the difference between a union and a labor cartel?

Julian Ortiz
Julian Ortiz

Found the union punk lol

Jason Hall
Jason Hall

Nigga, your first source is mormon propaganda

Aaron Barnes
Aaron Barnes

Why are anarchists so stupid?

Grayson Mitchell
Grayson Mitchell

I didn't post nor read those papers.
From a point of principal forcing an employer to force his employees to participate in an organization against their will is bullshit.

Asher Flores
Asher Flores

Libertarians hate working class people, and love corporations, who knew.

Hudson Green
Hudson Green

If you're against force, then you probably shouldn't live in the United States. The United States is pretty forceful on a lot things. I guess you should move to Somalia because there's no government there, and no one would force you to do anything.

John Jackson
John Jackson

why can't you actually respond to an argument instead of jumping into a baseless ad hominem?

Landon Adams
Landon Adams

Man I thought unions were just a way to make more money from whatever shitty trade job you’re working.

Brayden Watson
Brayden Watson

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Owen Phillips
Owen Phillips

Nothing wrong with a union. The problem is when the government supports it (i.e. teachers' unions). Regular unions are perfectly fair game in capitalism.
That said, pure libertarians are retarded. Half of them are all "muh NAP" but think you shouldn't need a driver's license to drive on PUBLIC roads that are basically shared and thus yeah the people do have a right to decide who drives on them. Minimal govt libertarians are good. Ancaps are fucking retards. The NAP is a principle not a hard-fast law you stick to until you become a fucking parody of yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ

Jaxson Myers
Jaxson Myers

Your posts are shit in this thread.
whoever paid you to shill here is paying you too much.

Isaiah Perry
Isaiah Perry

Educate yourself.
Because you're too dumb to elucidate your position?

Adrian Sanchez
Adrian Sanchez

As a liberal Jow Forums user I would say that for the most parts unions are unnecessary, because they don't ever stand up for their members and just suck free money out of them.

Unions would be beneficial to a lot of professions in preventing foreign H1B employers from exploiting cheap foreign labor and flooding the market in the US.

James Thomas
James Thomas

Do you also have issues with the government making it illegal for people to strike e.g. Taft-Hartley Act
Problem is that goverment prohibits employer from firing all striking emplyees at the spot if he wishes to do so. So to counter balance that government needs to make more legislation.

Luis Foster
Luis Foster

I am working class libertarian in a skilled trade. Don't hate myself, don't love corporations. I just have strong beliefs about right and wrong.
And forcing non-union working people to pay union dues is fucking wrong.

Robert Cox
Robert Cox

expecting a libertarian to have a valuable thought

John Gomez
John Gomez

libertarians love corporations
Meanwhile corporations don't exist without a government that ignores libertarian principles.

Alexander Garcia
Alexander Garcia

Libertarians are fags and incompetent self unaware morons, but drivers licenses are gay. Driving is not that hard. If you are a bad driver, you are banned from driving. No license is needed for that.

Thomas Reed
Thomas Reed

And forcing non-union working people to pay union dues is fucking wrong.
They aren't forced.
If they don't want to pay dues then they don't have to perform union work.

Carson Watson
Carson Watson

placing value on thought
mmm, yes, another smol thinker.

Ayden Diaz
Ayden Diaz

Yeah well I mean that is a fair point. A union without right-to-work protections for employees though is just a giant mob and a second government. And as I see it, right-to-work is not an infringement on the freedom of assembly in any way. I mean, your "right to freedom of assembly" does not guarantee that you have the right to explicitly blockade and infringe on other peoples freedom of assembly, which is what an employer and employee contract is.

It's like saying if you got together in a mob and went out and smashed car windows and stole shit that the government can't stop you because "you're in a mob and practicing your right to assembly". It's obviously a dishonest argument.

Unions should be unrestricted so long as their membership and association is voluntary and their members are not members under some kind of mere coercion.

Jeremiah Perry
Jeremiah Perry

Tragedy of the commons is unavoidable, because we all share the same universe. because of this we need a minimal level of a state to coordinate things like defense and ensure free movement across the country. Beyond this is simply selfish bully-tactics though.

Joseph Evans
Joseph Evans

Unions distort the real price of labor and cause imbalances in the free market. None of this really matters though so long as central banking and fiat money is still place because the money printing distorts the real price of everything up until the inevitable hyperinflation.

Jacob Morris
Jacob Morris

or they could not be required to involve a third party in a private agreement between themselves and their employer.

Nathan Scott
Nathan Scott

lol just create your own labor market
soon followed by the old and predictable
lol just make your own youtube
lol just make your own credit card company
lol just make your own banking system
lol just make your own country

Jordan Campbell
Jordan Campbell

Minimal govt libertarians are good. Ancaps are fucking retards.
I feel like this is really the truth. But it's weird because we live in a world today where people can ONLY understand extremes. ALL OR NOTHING when IRL you need to be smart, understand the world around you, calculate responsibly when a law or regulation is truly needed in order to maintain the integrity of the whole, and then back the fuck off when it comes to questions of decadence, "equality", social safety nets and all of the rest.

Jace Collins
Jace Collins

They don't have to create their own labor market they can go work at a non-union shop, there are plenty of them. Lots of boot-lickers out there love bending over for the man and getting fucked.

Jason Cook
Jason Cook

Libertarian Ethnostate when?

Easton Kelly
Easton Kelly

A free market causes an imbalance in the free market.
Listen to yourself. I'm sorry if you feel that greentext is a strawman somehow, but I genuinely feel it's an accurate translation of what you just said.

Dylan Lee
Dylan Lee

muh dik

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Oliver Richardson
Oliver Richardson

Minarchism FTW

Luis Gutierrez
Luis Gutierrez

They should be able to form at any point for any reason to participate in collective bargaining.
However, once the grievance has been settled: the union would be forced to dissolve.

Chase Watson
Chase Watson

I support private trade unions I dont support public unions that essentially use government jobs as a way to collect funds for democrats at the cost of teachers, police, firefighters and other public servants.

Asher Walker
Asher Walker

bennies
Stop talking like that

Christian Torres
Christian Torres

"The struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word 'Fascism' and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Native American Liberty. For they were thieves not only of wages but of honor. To their purpose they could quote not only Scripture but Jefferson."

Who cares what ropertarians think.
The villains.

Adam Ramirez
Adam Ramirez

right to work gives union benefits to people who dont pay union dues. Its the same as welfare gibs to people who dont pay taxes.

Grayson Miller
Grayson Miller

So, are you saying that social programs funded by tax payers
WIC
Food assistance for needy families
utility assitance
rent assistance
school lunch programs
after school care programs
benefits for the mentally ill or handicap
are bad? because like, I'm pretty in favor of all of those things, but I will acknowledge that the programs need stricter requirements and actual arm of enforcement to prevent generations of welfare users.

Josiah Sullivan
Josiah Sullivan

I'm a union representative and we will not strike. AMA

Hunter Turner
Hunter Turner

Union: I got you this
Worker: I didn't need that.
Union: Pay me for getting you this.
Worker: I don't want it!
Union: hey, this is welfare gibs if you don't pay me.

Samuel Nelson
Samuel Nelson

Or don't. Fuck off.

Noah Williams
Noah Williams

that comic is stupid because in a free society he could just fire me without infringing on anyone’s rights

Alexander Morgan
Alexander Morgan

lol just get a new career
Do you even listen to yourself? What is "union work"? How can non-union workers "do union work"?

Leo Gonzalez
Leo Gonzalez

In theory I'd prefer to do away with all of those things and just have people take care of themselves. The nanny state is going to twist and pervert the human race into a slave-beast for the state, IMO. I don't want to take part in building that world.
In practice, we're in competition in a global economy, and it's a fight for our survival and existence in the future. So we need to make responsible decisions to prop up our GDP and fund our military.

But this second way of looking at things falls flat when you start realizing that in the USA we can build up the world's most powerful military, but then we refuse to use it to wipe out our enemies, because we're so decedent and insulated that people cry for "peace and tolerance" to the people who would annihilate us in an instant the second they get any kind fo economic or military upper hand.

So then you gotta start thinking, maybe the first option was really the way we should have gone from the very start. That IS actually more or less how this country started out, and became great, but it slowly decayed into nannying and totalitarianism.

Christian Cook
Christian Cook

ahaha
yea, no worker wants higher wages, more vacation time, sick days, holiday pay, job security, health insurance, tuition assistance, need i go on

Julian Allen
Julian Allen

right to work breaks the ability of the union to force membership. if the unions wanted to run an exclusive business then they could go form a happy commune, buy their own tools, and start their own business, only to be out competed because they spend all their profits on self-indulgent benefits instead of paying their workers what they would be willing to work for and spending the rest on improving the business.

Isaac King
Isaac King

Ok so you know nothing about unions.

Hudson Richardson
Hudson Richardson

the union is a cabal serving their own ends under false pretense

literally jews accusing others of doing what they themselves are doing

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Christopher Miller
Christopher Miller

if you think we live in a free market you are fucking retarded

Cameron Myers
Cameron Myers

I got you a higher wage so you could pay me a bigger union due

Gabriel Rivera
Gabriel Rivera

Wait.....what? WTF?
I didn't say.....
WTF are you talking about?
Who are you even talking / responding to?

Cameron Peterson
Cameron Peterson

you're basically claiming that the cost of membership is greater than the benefits of membership, which is fatuously stupid

Mason Morris
Mason Morris

Mixed bag.
Sometimes they're needed, sometimes they end up evil cunts who fuck over the people they're meant to help.
Joining a union should be optional and you should not be penalized for abstaining from enrolling.

Jason Rodriguez
Jason Rodriguez

I was in one for 4 years.
Pretty much this.

Jose Richardson
Jose Richardson

25 dollars a month is too much to ask for a 5 dollar an hour pay raise, health care, and protection from unjust termination

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

Libertarians should be shot.

Jason Watson
Jason Watson

I'm too illiterate to read an article or a study even if I'm spoonfed out of looking for it myself
Okay, here's a tl:dr then
all union bosses are former executives from the companies they're supposed to be adversarial to
through donations and similar excuses, they still take money from those same companies
they should be fighting for the interests of the worker and willing to crash the entire industry if the worker doesn't get his way
instead they put their buddies first, wave through pennies no-one can live off of for wages and don't do shit
but you're obligated to join them and pay them out of your already shit wage anyway
Unions are a money-making scam.
They originally existed only to attack, destroy and weaken White owned businesses to force them to sell them off to (((revolutionaries who mysteriously have all the necessary money to buy them))). But ever since that purpose was already achieved, they exist only to milk even more money out of the working class and into the coffers of the (((bourgeoisie))).

Christopher Long
Christopher Long

Want better working conditions, fair wages, decent working environment.
Join an organization which claims to fight for said rights
Fired on the spot
This is what happened to my grandfather's brother, and is ultimately why we need unions.

Jonathan Moore
Jonathan Moore

I’m not in denial. I’m an anarchist in an ideal sense but I don’t believe it’s possible yet

John Baker
John Baker

If you dont want to join a union dont work at a union shop. Theres other places out there.

Christopher Foster
Christopher Foster

The benefits vastly outweigh the costs though

Elijah Hernandez
Elijah Hernandez

Fuck lolbertians and fuck commies.

Oliver Thompson
Oliver Thompson

If the benefits outweighed the costs, you wouldn't need to legally push people into becoming members.

Kevin Long
Kevin Long

No it's SO GOOD, it's MANDATORY.

Blake Adams
Blake Adams

fatuously stupid
Superfluous, user. Dial back the snobbery. This is Jow Forums. Don't be that guy who calls others a fool only to reveal that he too was a fool.
protection from unjust termination
Right to work states are the best. Why does an employer owe you employment. Employers should have the ability to fire a worker for any reason.

Zachary Johnson
Zachary Johnson

Bet you can’t drive a manual and don’t know how to use a roundabout.

Asher James
Asher James

Libertarians are Anarchists in denial.
#notalloufus
I'm not in denial

Landon Adams
Landon Adams

I'm an ex-anarchist now minarchist.
I liked anarchy when I was younger because of the freedom it granted, but quickly realized that it just could not be sustained, therefore a state was needed, but that state could be kept very small while still fulfilling the functions that make it necessary in the first place.

Carson Bennett
Carson Bennett

you're implying in the green text that unions are free market and i'm telling you that if you think we live in a free market you are retarded

Carter Ramirez
Carter Ramirez

Employers should have the ability to fire a worker for any reason

sorry user, I heard your a conservative. We dont support that thinking here, pack your shit and dont come back.

Bentley Lewis
Bentley Lewis

"Libertarian Principles" like letting corporations with unlimited funds fuck over workers, and pretending that a free market exists? Anarchists, like you, are so incoherent when it comes to policy.

Austin Morales
Austin Morales

even 25 cents a month is too much to ask when it's guarunteed to end up in a clinton account

Daniel Adams
Daniel Adams

Listen retard, if you let everyone gain the benefits of the union without paying for the dues of being in the union why would anyone join the union to begin with? Right to work laws are a way to bleed unions financially into non-existence.

Asher Taylor
Asher Taylor

Respond to Utopian claims that government shouldn't exist? How stupid can you be? There's nothing wrong with having a government that promotes the general welfare of the people, especially when the people vote and consent for the policies that are enacted.

Luis Kelly
Luis Kelly

libertarians pretend we live in a free market and don't constantly bitch about the corporatist economic we live in
Imagine believing this.

Evan Ward
Evan Ward

then dont work in a union shop. For the record union donations are publically available and not all of it goes to democrats. When I was in the SIU a good amount of money went to republicans because they supported the jones act.

Austin Roberts
Austin Roberts

Why is anyone not inside the union getting the benefits of the union? If there are 5 employees, and 3 of them come together to negotiate a higher wage for the 3 of them, why would the other 2 get suddenly higher wages for no reason?

Christopher James
Christopher James

I can be nice to someone like you, because at least your honest, but I'd consider dropping it quickly because every anarchist project from Catalonia (which was awesome btw), to Rojava (which isn't Anarchist, but still is inspired by some of their principles) has required some form of authority to protect itself from external and internal threats.

Michael Phillips
Michael Phillips

youre not a real liberal because you dont have a picture of che guevara, mao tse tung and stalin hanging in your room and say the things I agree with
:(

Levi Reed
Levi Reed

For the record union donations are publically available and not all of it goes to democrats
not all
just like 99% or something small

Luke Wright
Luke Wright

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Stonetoss confirmed for kike jewery, controlled opposition. Really explains a lot why it continues to fly under the radar.

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Joseph Bell
Joseph Bell

No, dood, we totally will someday create this Utopian free market, perfect competition system that will exist some day! Just trust me! All we have to do is abolish the government, then, all our problems will go away. Authority bad! Unless, it's something I have idealistic moralist personal beliefs that almost always make me a useful idiot for corporations and the ultra rich.

Sebastian Jones
Sebastian Jones

If its a union shop starting wage and time between pay raises is standardized. In a right to work state companies will maintain this standardization for ALL workers in order to deincentivize union membership. Eventually the union will cease to existand the company can then from there treat individual employees however they wish.

Christian Gutierrez
Christian Gutierrez

Now we're boomer leddit posting?

Hudson Stewart
Hudson Stewart

ok guy

right to termination is going to end with that sam heide quote about people wanting you broke and vilified to become reality. Its not my fault youre too dumb to realize that

Samuel Rodriguez
Samuel Rodriguez

Lol actual left wingers hate liberals far more than conservatives do, they would get the bullet first

Austin Morgan
Austin Morgan

Libtards are no different from libtards

Carson Ramirez
Carson Ramirez

ok guy

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Liam Long
Liam Long

Union members are not accurately displayed here. They are smug entitled pieces of shit.
Met a physical therapist
He wanted to go work right out of high school. His father wanted him to go to college.
Went to work at a Chevy plant that Is now a parking lot. UAW building WAS across the street to. It is now also a parking lot. Poetic justice.
Worked there 6 months. Saw what kind of trash those union scum were.
Going to strip club during lunch hour to get hammered.
Putting trash inside car doors before putting interior door panels on.
Getting away with outrageous shit because they knew the union handshake.
He was disgusted. Went back to his dad and said “I’ll go to college now”.

Camden Carter
Camden Carter

Union scum

Justin Smith
Justin Smith

I pay my union dues so they can support democrats with my money. :)

#fuckwhitepeople #fucktrump

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Cooper Torres
Cooper Torres

This ^^^

On top of that, employers should be allowed to fire those associated freely.

Leo Baker
Leo Baker

Notice how the SIU is literally almost 50/50 republicans and democrats as I had mentioned. This isnt really even relevant though because my position when it came to private trade unions was and still is if you dont want to support a union dont work in a union shop.

Gavin Adams
Gavin Adams

Isn't it interesting that you're the only person continuously insulting everybody in nearly every single one of your posts. Everybody is a retard, dumb-ass, moron, or something else who deviate from your view point. Heck, you've even gone so far as to make feral claims about others not being a 'real liberal for not being in complete agreement with you on everything you say. Pic related, user.

You need to work on your ability to listen to others and your ability to understand the other view point. You're not going to be very successful if all you do is scream other people down and belittle them for engaging you in debate that you're choosing to participate in.

Since you keep shutting the conversation down nobody can respond to you since you don't want anybody to actually engage you in a civil discussion.

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Ryan Carter
Ryan Carter

I think unions are great, I just don't think they should have governmental power. That extends to things like not being able to sack people who go on strike. As it stands, unions can essentially do what they like to businesses because they've lobbied the government to make them above the law.

Jayden Cox
Jayden Cox

Private unions are more-or-less compatible with libertarianism.
Government unions are not.

Brayden Ward
Brayden Ward

Fuck unions
Bullies employer for outrageous pay and benefits
Employer flees to China
Wonders why company fled and is now out of work

Lucas Reyes
Lucas Reyes

Wtf I hate unions now

Jordan Wilson
Jordan Wilson

And the mafia

Lincoln Ross
Lincoln Ross

Heck, you've even gone so far as to make feral claims about others not being a 'real liberal for not being in complete agreement with you on everything you say. Pic related, user.

I literally never said anything close to that but once again, ok guy.

Joseph Cook
Joseph Cook

Physical removal

Juan Stewart
Juan Stewart

Not if they gulag you first kek

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Jonathan Torres
Jonathan Torres

Nice leddit spacing you fucking retard gorilla nigger

Aaron Scott
Aaron Scott

lrn2not dilate

Justin Howard
Justin Howard

Reaching will a karate chop thus breaking the non-aggression policy
They're lucky he didn't light them up with his McRifle™ and force them to work in his Have it Your Way BK Salt Mine©.

Camden Gutierrez
Camden Gutierrez

How silly of me. You're right once again. You never said such a thing. Gosh, I wish I was always right.

Lincoln Powell
Lincoln Powell

The work doesn’t belong to the union. The work belongs to the employer.
Who the fuck do you think you are?
And you wonder why people fucking hate you. If I had the chance every time I see one of these I’d fill it full of holes with a high powered BB gun

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Nathaniel Gomez
Nathaniel Gomez

unions are a form of socialism
socialism doesn't work

Caleb Collins
Caleb Collins

Libertarians are pansies that are scared of the truth: that the moronic masses must be controlled, and that being controlled is inevitable. The only question is the nature of the will that controls them. In the current era, the people controlling the masses are also entertaining themselves with an extensive pedo network, among other unknown acts. Libertarians sit back and let the foundations crumble. Hey, when it's all over you might get to rule over ash and dust!

Liam Walker
Liam Walker

I don't think libertarians care about unions in private institutions, as long as the government doesn't intervene, it's fine. But if it is unions in the public sector, then it is unfair, because the workers have unjust power over electing their employer and can make demands at elections. The government can always pay for the extra wage increases because it can increase taxes or take a loan, something which would make even the most profitable business go broke.

Levi Diaz
Levi Diaz

They don't have to create their own labor market they can go work at a non-union shop, there are plenty of them. Lots of boot-lickers out there love how their job stays in the US and doesn’t flee to a turd world shithole because union labor is too difficult to deal with.

FTFY

Jackson Kelly
Jackson Kelly

You can't have free market and socialism.

Samuel Thomas
Samuel Thomas

Unions are another govt that takes your money and imposes more rules on you BEFORE you get to have your money taken from THE govt.

Joseph Gray
Joseph Gray

Yeah I know it’s illegible or is it that you don’t know how to read?

Jaxson Sanchez
Jaxson Sanchez

I don’t blame you

Mason Hughes
Mason Hughes

it's an edit you mong

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Jeremiah Ortiz
Jeremiah Ortiz

wealth distribution
arbitration
Still socialism. What are you trying to convey?

Jace Perry
Jace Perry

if youre a taxpayer youre bending over and getting fucked by public unions, bootlicker

Ryder Wright
Ryder Wright

Unions are a great alternate to government labor regulations. The Nordic model has it to where there is no minimum wage, but the overwhelming majority of employed people are members of a union and as a consequence have a negotiated wage without outside coercion. The biggest problem working people have today is that employers would rather hire illegal immigrants than negotiate with a union. They're not perfect though because if they aren't large enough, or have any sort of labor focused vision they devolve into inefficient messes that try to preserve jobs by having as many people possible working, and pump money into the Democratic party. There's a lot of variation to between massive post-capitalist unions like the IWW and smaller craft unions, each being good at different things.

Sebastian Foster
Sebastian Foster

you're a slave to socialism
Unfortunately that's how the system operates. The only solution is to repeal the Immigration Act and the Federal Reserve, and DMCA. I'm sure there's other ones, but those are the big three that I'm concerned with.

Nathan King
Nathan King

It is their right to form a union, but it is the employers right to fire people for starting a union

Connor Scott
Connor Scott

socialism is a great alternative to socialism
Liberalism is mental disorder.
Nordic model
Oil-based socialism. There's no minimum wage because everything is already paid for through government welfare.

Isaac Clark
Isaac Clark

IWW
Rights aren't for commies

Cameron Ross
Cameron Ross

Its also the employees right to not be forced to join a union to work.
If the employer enforces union signing, then the issue is the employer for breaching freedom of association.
You're an American citizen and you're assign to a State. Those are the only stipulations enforceable. You cannot be held accountable for laws of a neighboring state, nor guilt by association.
If you choose to live in one state, but work in another, you have only yourself to blame for convolution.
All the various counties and municipalities within the state with separate rules are arbitrations that void country and state litigation. (aka Amish people don't get Social Security)

Unions are technically a form of domestic terrorism.

Austin Perez
Austin Perez

I am fine with unions. However, the employer STILL should have the right to fire any employee, for any reason. The unions do NOT own the jobs. I am also opposed to the threats of violence, AND violence committed by union members. If replacement workers are hired, union thigs should be arrested if they attempt to harass or intimidate them. Unions do not have the right to seize other people's property, or harass, or intimidate. When a union strikes, they should do it with the knowledge that the company can simply fire them all if it chooses.

Liam Myers
Liam Myers

Because hey are only twice as smart as low IQ leftist like yourself.

Colton Morgan
Colton Morgan

the government can go away

Benjamin White
Benjamin White

the people do have a right to decide who drives on them.
who are "the people"
how do they "decide" who drives
and most importantly,
how do "the people" enforce their "decision"

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Eli Roberts
Eli Roberts

as long as they're voluntary, they're great.

Landon Robinson
Landon Robinson

Why do so many leftists edit stonetoss’s comics? Is it because he makes many valid points and the left thinks that if it reverses the points it makes leftism valid?

Logan Rivera
Logan Rivera

I hate to say I actually agree with Shapiro on his stance of unions being fine in the private sector but should be banned in the public sector.

David Nelson
David Nelson

Libertarians suck negro and joo peepee so they are against white workers forming unions.

Noah Scott
Noah Scott

The same man who allegedly said "fascism will come to america wearing an american flag and holding a cross"? That's the same faggot that cat ladies quote on facebook to sound intellectual and woke.

Adam Ortiz
Adam Ortiz

(which was awesome btw)
hard cringe

Brody Rivera
Brody Rivera

Greece
Are you one those fascists the KKE forgot to shoot?

Andrew Perry
Andrew Perry

Libertarianism is a meme ideloogy that will never have enough support

Jordan Reed
Jordan Reed

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Lucas Jenkins
Lucas Jenkins

Let me drop some redpills about the flaws in libertarianism.

One of the biggest things you learn in Physics classes is that your initial assumptions govern the final result. In other words, all of your mathematics and reasoning can be absolutely correct, but if you made a wrong assumption at the outset, you will get the wrong answer every time. Oftentimes when you're pulling your hair out over a wrong answer and scanning all your mathematics, re-examine your assumptions. More often then naught, you'll find the problem there.

The big problem with libertarianism is the assumptions it makes about human nature. In order for the logical outcomes to proceed according to the libertarian prescription, humans must have a certain nature. Since we don't have this nature, the outcomes don't manifest, the theory is forever clinging on for dear life, like a broken hinge.

According to my understanding here are some assumptions made implicitly in the libertarian moral system (you might dispute this):
people fundamentally behave in accordance with self-interest
This is correct to a very large extent, and where the libertarian ideology shows it's strength. But it also misses out on so much
differences in behavior are largely learned
They might admit some genetic effect here, but it's not of major concern or significance
humans possess free will
It means the choices of any given individual cannot be predicted. Rather, each individual will have completely unique preferences and needs in accordance with their incredibly unique personality and traits, which manifest based on their past experience. This is rather different from a scientific point of view, which sees the human organism as a type of machine, and by knowing the components and wiring, we can basically predict almost everything about it's behavior.

We can see the weakness here. Rather than individuals, humans are basically tribal. This is how we evolved after all.
Thus we are much more naturally attuned to nationalism

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Andrew Garcia
Andrew Garcia

This is the correct answer, humans are biological organisms, and almost all of their behavior can be explained in the context of evolutionary analysis. Why did this trait develop? How does it benefit the organism in passing on it's genes? What group-behaviors which are perhaps destructive to the life of an individual succeed in proliferating that individual's genes through his group (a classic example of this concept: a rabbit stamps it's foot to draw a wolf's attention, thus allowing it's rabbit colony to survive).

Humans behave tribally, and this can be quite irrational. For example, they are susceptible to messages from authority figures. You might as why all these people are self-destructively choosing to buy an inferior product, it's because they were told to by a well-financed advertisement on TV. This irrational behavior should be entirely self-destructive, so why do we posses it? Obviously because respect for authority leads to a more cohesive society, thus a far more powerful and successful society at large. A larger national organism with the ability to accomplish things on a grand scale.

Why do people spontaneously pick up litter? It costs you time and effort, but benefits the larger social order. We are programmed like this for a reason.
Therefore, re-examine the concept of "freedom". If this is who we are, wouldn't our lives be fulfilled by acting in accordance with our nature? In other words, by embracing our programming and following it through?

We are supposed to have a nation, a heirarchy, a powerful military crushing the enemy beneath our feet. That's who we are, this is our destiny. To conquer the world.
Embrace it, our greatest obstacle is our own weakness. We have the power to take this world, and we shall.

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Chase Richardson
Chase Richardson

What if everyone but libertarians already live in such a society?

Ryder Garcia
Ryder Garcia

Unions are for old racist boomers who beat their wives and kids, not millennial sois and femcels who have never worked a real blue-collar job in their entire lives.

Jace Hernandez
Jace Hernandez

Exactly. A great example is a bunch of youtubers associating recently (forming the youtubers union) against youtube's demonetizations. It's the Libertarian scenario, because they have no law protection since they're not employees. They also can't make their own platform because their revenue depends on their videos and they can't maintain that if they switch overnight.

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