Logical proof that God exists

Xavier Allen
Xavier Allen

Imagine you create a video game that is a simulation of an imaginary world. Hypothetically, in this game world there are self-aware non-player characters (NPCs).

This world would be a closed system, meaning that like our universe, once it is created nothing new can come into the world that isn't already in the world. For example in our world you cannot create new energy or new matter. You can only use that which already is, and combine these things to make "new" things, but their possibility already exists within the closed system.

By exploring the game world, these NPCs could only ever come to the logical conclusion that time and their virtual world has always existed. And from their perspective it would rationally be true, because thinking of a time before time would not be logical. Time cannot exist without space, energy, matter and the laws of physics. So their world has by definition always existed, and never not existed, because nonexistence doesn't exist.

The only way the NPCs could even imagine the concept of a world outside of their world or a creator, is if the game creator intervened somehow and implanted these ideas or concepts in their world.

But even if the NPCs had been given this idea that something outside of their world might exist, they could never actually get any evidence of this outside world themselves. Because it is outside of their frame of reality which is a closed system.

Therefore the evidence that God exists is that we can imagine a higher power and the concept of a God that is outside of our reality.

I'm not saying that every god we can imagine exists, because people can mix the idea of a higher being with things that already exist in the world and create their own counterfeit version of God. Such as pagan religions which worship gods that look like animals or the sun, or the moon, or whatever.

In the Bible however, the true living God says he is not of this world, he was never born and will never die.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZaGVCO6CByQ
jowforums.com/thread/223280753/politics
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
youtube.com/watch?v=U_ZHsk0-eF0
biology-online.org/dictionary/Evolution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Angel Ward
Angel Ward

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Logan Campbell
Logan Campbell

666

God doesn't exist, but the demiurge does and he's in this thread, right now.

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Joshua Taylor
Joshua Taylor

argument from ignorance fallacy

Asher Sullivan
Asher Sullivan

he's stupid

Austin Jenkins
Austin Jenkins

is he though

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Angel Brown
Angel Brown

let me find yet another bullshit way to justify my irrational beliefs
whatever

Jacob Bennett
Jacob Bennett

Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:)

17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea farther; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

Grayson Butler
Grayson Butler

The only way the NPCs could even imagine ... a creator, is if the game creator intervened somehow.

Why?

But even if the NPCs had been given this idea that something outside of their world might exist, they could never actually get any evidence of this outside world themselves...Therefore the evidence that God exists is that we can imagine a higher power..

i can imagine a thing, i have no proof of this thing, i can imagine it therefore it is real

Fuck off

Jace Howard
Jace Howard

Logical proof that God exists
But what if you were computer designed to create a simulation with self-aware NPCs? Would you call yourself a God?

Chase Evans
Chase Evans

If something only exists outside of space and time then it may as well not exist at all.

David Wood
David Wood

Amen brother.

Why?
Try imagining a new color.

But what if you were computer designed to create a simulation with self-aware NPCs? Would you call yourself a God?
I would be like a god to them but I would not be God. However the prime creator has to be the eternal God, otherwise an infinite question loop would form.

Who or what created the universe? X created the universe. Who or what created X? Y created X. Who or what created Y? Z created Y etc. infinitely. Somewhere it would have to stop and there would be a prime creator that was never created AKA the true God.

Luke Sullivan
Luke Sullivan

However the prime creator has to be the eternal God,
How do you know there is a prime creator? Is it not possible that your evolution makes you see the universe through the lens of causality? Since you see that things/creations have an origin, you hypothesize that the universe has an origin. Since you see that humans can create things/processes you hypothesize that someone created the universe.

Your thinking is bound by the rules of this universe. Attributing the creation of the universe to a prime creator is the result of the evolution of the human brain rather than a logical truth.

The logical hypothesis is to stop here
But even if the NPCs had been given this idea that something outside of their world might exist, they could never actually get any evidence of this outside world themselves
That is, we don't know why/how the universe was created, and "who"/"what" (if any) created it.

Luke Collins
Luke Collins

checked satan, but
The only way the NPCs could even imagine the concept of a world outside of their world or a creator, is if the game creator intervened somehow and implanted these ideas or concepts in their world.
Log Horizon mentions this in passing when referring to the "42". The "42" are 42 songs the NPCs, "People of the land" know. In that world there never were created any new songs as these are the only ones that were put into the game. Thus the NPCs get really emotional about the players bringin in new songs.

Also if you want to see that God exist look into the golden ratio and sacred geometry, the patterns>pater>father who is in heaven, that make up creation showing an intelligent design behind things, showing its not just a random accident.

Colton Watson
Colton Watson

Hinduism, an Indo-European pagan religion, has an even higher concept of god than christfaggotry does.

Isaiah King
Isaiah King

How do you know there is a prime creator?
There has to be one, otherwise it would not be logical.

Is it not possible that your evolution makes you see the universe through the lens of causality?
I don't believe the theory of evolution to be accurate.

That is, we don't know why/how the universe was created, and "who"/"what" (if any) created it.
We know that our universe was created because we exist and time exists. Something that does not have the possibility of existing cannot exist. Something that does not have the possibility of being imagined cannot be imagined. Like a new color for example. But the concept of God exists and we can imagine God. Therefore God is.

Parker Sanders
Parker Sanders

Its called CTMU retards

John Sullivan
John Sullivan

That's one way user, your on the right track.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZaGVCO6CByQ

Alexander Garcia
Alexander Garcia

pagan
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Asher Smith
Asher Smith

If someone is interested in discussion focused more around christianity
jowforums.com/thread/223280753/politics

Carson Perry
Carson Perry

Humanity is one big ass "collective conscious"... since that of Homo Sapiens.

Then Homo Sapiens (Biblical Eve) had sex with Neanderthals in the middle east

Then Eve (Homo Sapien) gave birth to Cain (Cro Magnon)

Then a jealous Cain killed off his half brother Abel (Homo Sapien) & was condemned forever...

Then fast forward to the establishments of civilizations before the first reset, "Deluge".

We build collect, build collect... then reset.
All cyclical.

God is based on the principles of Universal Empathy but Neanderthals werent made in his image... Been a spiritual tug-o-war since the jump.

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Andrew Rivera
Andrew Rivera

Mandela Effect is from patches

Carter Long
Carter Long

Life wasn't created with the universe. It might just be a casual event. If this god exist anyway and he can see this shit he's a fucking psychopath. If he's good why did he create the bad? Maybe to exist one thing it has to exist the opposite of that thing. Would we know the color black if there wasn't the color white?

Matthew Cooper
Matthew Cooper

There has to be one, otherwise it would not be logical.
Are you sure it would not be logical? Or do you believe it would not be logical? This universe is based on causality. But why is it logical of you to build a causal model of something outside the universe? Even in your simulation game, can the NPCs ever characterize you? How can they? They'll never have sufficient information.

You BELIEVE God created this universe BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE GOD. And therein lies the problem. You are not God, and thus it is not logical to extrapolate your qualities to God. The logical conclusion is to accept that we just don't have sufficient information to build a reasonable model of God.

That is - either all models of God are true or none are true (vacuous truth).
I don't believe the theory of evolution to be accurate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

FYI: Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Evolution is not real.
We know that our universe was created because we exist and time exists
Created implies there was a time before this universe existed. How do you know this to be true? The universe could have cyclical life of expansion and contraction. The Big Bang model would fit that assumption.
But the concept of God exists and we can imagine God. Therefore God is.
Did the concept of God exist before you were born? If so, why was the concept created? Was it to explain the origin of the universe? Or was it to use religion as a tool to control the masses?

Xavier Hughes
Xavier Hughes

THIS WAS MADE IN 1965

Adam Taylor
Adam Taylor

There is probably no god but the best most perfect religion is christianity.

Adrian Green
Adrian Green

God exists. Who do think created the demiurge? But God has been shattered into countless pieces bu the demiurge. We call them souls, and slowly they are coalescing as those who lead pure lives ascend. That's what it's all ultimately about.

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Zachary Sanders
Zachary Sanders

EVERYTHING MUST HAVE A BEGINNING.
Except our God of course.
Special pleading is not a argument tho.

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Joshua Perry
Joshua Perry

There is probably no god but the best most perfect religion is christianity.
Israeli flag.

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Ryan Martin
Ryan Martin

The logical proof is that the universe has no ability to create itself therefore it needs a creator therefore something omnipotent and infinite must exist, and an omnipotent infinite being by necessity is God therefore God exists.

Jace Morris
Jace Morris

the universe has no ability to create itself
How do we prove this to be true? Or is this an argument where we just have to take your word for it.

Oliver Watson
Oliver Watson

What you are saying is essentially "God exist, because there is no way to prove he doesn't exist." That is a fallacious way to prove something.

Dominic Perez
Dominic Perez

self-aware non-player characters
define "self aware" and how it can be algorithmically coded in a computer language.

i can imagine a thing, i have no proof of this thing, i can imagine it therefore it is real
Fuck off
But atheists do this all the time with life outside our solar system and also the countless missing transitional forms in the fossil record

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
does not even remotely prove macroevolution. One of the authors publishing info in this 30 year study said it was 1 in a trillion chance the e coli could perform the new feat they observed so it happens on a daily basis in nature since there's more than a trillion trillion e coli.

Jordan Peterson
Jordan Peterson

does not even remotely prove macroevolution.
What would convince you of evolution then? Or does your current belief system forbid you from believing in evolution? In which case the question is why do you think evolution is not true?

Brayden Edwards
Brayden Edwards

Quality post
But digits. Yikes.

Xavier Wright
Xavier Wright

Examples of such patterns?

Nathaniel Gutierrez
Nathaniel Gutierrez

How can something create itself?

Nicholas Sanchez
Nicholas Sanchez

youtube.com/watch?v=U_ZHsk0-eF0
start at 7:11 for example for some geomatrical examples
But there are also conceptual patterns like "opposites attract another" which manifests itself through out creation, wether its in electromagnetism, social relationships, or particle physics (anti matter and matter creating a big BOOOM for example).
In example Jesus explains a lot of the heavenly workings through metaphores in farming, parenting, shepherding or craftmansship. He does so because in these too the same patterns emerge that also are appearent in the heavens, and thus can explain in terms everyone understands, parenting, farming and such, how the workings of the heaves are.

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones

It would have the ability to spontaneously cease existing, as is the inverse of the ability to spontaneously create itself. But the Universe can only go down to a central compact ball of sort, as far as we understand it.

Is the ability for it to vanish or be spontaneously created in the Universe. If it were we would be able to find the properties that would grant these functions therein. Until we do or find something that proves it doesn't it's basically God all the way baby.

Hudson Johnson
Hudson Johnson

define "self aware" and how it can be algorithmically coded in a computer language.

Exactly, the fact that making something as self-aware as yourself via AI is so mind-bogglingly impossible should prove the point to you of the creator.

John Sanchez
John Sanchez

is if the game creator intervened somehow and implanted these ideas or concepts in their world.
Think about what you've just written, theist. What's the "game creator's" motive to create the game in the first place?
We do it for fun-- every version of higher being (i.e. an invention of primitive people to justify their motives) has some high and mighty "believe in me or you will perish" mentality, "do x and y to make me happy" whining, "your ultimate salvation is tangible and totally up to you individually" shot-sighted optimism.
This is universe is too random (from the stand point of humans) to be any creation of any intelligent being... unless said being was drunk or something.

Ryder Cox
Ryder Cox

What would convince you of evolution then?
Evolution is correct because of it's very simplistic textbook definition: which is the net genetic change in a population over successive generations.

biology-online.org/dictionary/Evolution

By default, this definition is correct unless every single species is an exact clone. Every time a human dies or is born, the genetic composition of the human species mathematically changes, ergo evolution is "correct"

The fiction arises when you assume complex organs and extremely complex, obviously designed, biological systems can arise via this method of random change guided by natural selection. This is macroevolution, aka science fiction.
You would need to observe a species develop new complex features/organs where they previously did not exist to prove macroevolution, and not just infer/religiously guess like zealots it happened by "analyzing" the laughably incomplete fossil record.

That's not even the half of it. "qualia" is an acknowledged philosophically sound concept which proves, yes proves, naturalism is false. Meaning the supernatural does exist. Basically, when we both see a strawberry I perceive the color red and so do you, but it is scientifically impossible to prove we actually perceive the same color. If our conscious perception had switched green and red it's not possible to detect this which is proof something exists beyond the natural realm: the supernatural.

The argument is acknowledged as sound but it's not accepted because "reasons"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

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