Why religion in government?

Because a country is more than a plot of land with people on it, it is the people and sometimes those people have a religion. So why shouldn't the government actually represent the people?

this have a smoko u cheeky cunt

>but why is conscious not material? maybe conscious is like gravity, and gravity is attracted to heavy things, maybe conscious is attracted to smart things like us? then it's material?
It's a very difficult concept to grasp, consciousness and the human condition being more than just material things. It requires a lot of abstract thought, and I'm not sure I'm the one to be explaining it.

>maybe we are not smart enough.
Yes, this is true. In part I still agree with this argument and often state it. The problem is that if we begin to think like that, it always gives way to moral relativism. e.g "well what is the point to anything?", to which there is no material answer. Because if the world is viewed in purely material terms, we degenerate and the end result is meaningless leading to unproductive death. It's a path to nothing. That those who think this way end their position in the human super-organism, while those who don't have their genes passed on, can't be pure coincidence.

>humans come, they say world cannot be without government.
There can be no government with Humans, but only with very small numbers. A government is an organic eventuality stemming from enough humans congregating together. At some point there's so many of us that it's impossible for the group to remain cohesive without having some kind of single voice. In purely practical terms, how can several million people have their opinion on something that governs the whole group? If we took the time to get everyone's opinion, then nothing would ever be accomplished, we'd stagnate totally.
All of this is the case because humans have something that no other animal has: the ability to conceive abstractions. We can theorize about things that can't happen. That is the one thing that set us apart, and it allows everything that we have now to be possible. A government is an ad-hoc construction based on abstractions and is inevitable to the human condition, within Civilization, as death itself.

You have been vis~ited by the Lau~ra of m*ediocre threads.
*
This thre|ad is ab|out to die with only 12 replies~. OP, hop~efully you got what you des~ired out of it and that it wasn^'t a tot*al lo`ss.

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Biology speaks nothing of morality or ethical codes.

why not? only the beings that behave in a way that lets them survive, will have children and evolve. it has worked for nearly 4 billion years, and it has produced us. isn't the morality that this system just works well and that we get the best of ourselves (because it has made us and we are shaped by it) by living by this system?

kind of like, our intelligence + evolution's intelligence. not fight it and say, "we know better", but, "hey, this is a pretty clever thing, look at all the things it has made, maybe it makes some kind of sense how it works"

Maybe for you. Atheist countries can analyse wich laws could ensure long term stability.
FPBP

>what is chinise box
Morality is just mechanism to optimise society.

Just lit up a durry

Read a book, toothpaste nigger

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like which?

All morality is subjective, subjective morality is based on an emotional and experience-based worldview

It's impossible to govern without religion because all ethical decision-making exists on that level.

Governments and religions are the #1 thing that goys hand their wealth over too without question. As wealth leads to power, the end result is inevitable. Don't forget to visit church this Sunday and give them some more money.

>He hasn't read Aristotle
laughing girls.jpg

Ask muslims.

Stop trying to make this shitty meme happen.
Yiff in hell furfag.

i'm trying

>being judged on getting into heaven based on your deeds
Looks like someone's a heretic

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Natural law is more than enough

>says the sola fides heretic

Because you're not allowed to kill babies

Perfectly said.

Same thing.

Sounds like someone wants to give the Demiurge a free pass

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I agree, OP. We need to separate religion from government. Therefore every zionist jew and buttgoy needs to step down Their religious belief in the terrorist ethnostate always trumps rationality.

Impossible and nonsense.

jew

Also nonsense, if I was a jew I'd be richer.

Read my comments upthread. All morality is inherently based on a combination of emotional responses and external conditioning. There is no rational basis for it

Therefore if you want morality in your life, it has to be based on emotion and societal pressures, which is exactly what religion is.

Easier way to control stupid people and bugmen. Smart people will either call you superstitious idiots or corrupt, or they'll want in on the power structure.

Morality is literally a. A personal code of conduct for your own life and b. A societal code of conduct for optimal cohesion and effectiveness, both of which are essentially rational to varying degrees in a utilitarian sense.

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In a utilitarian sense, morality can be suspended whenever you can get away with it and would benefit by doing so

Very few people who believe themselves to be ethical actually believe this, so that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Liberty: to not have your freedom restricted by others while not restricting the freedom of others.
The only reason this is not good enough for most godless cunts is they want to rule with an iron fist to enforce their views

>an objective basis of morality
No such thing. Men make morals.

>Atheists and secularists don't have this
We all pretty much have the same man-made morals. Theists are just dishonest about theirs.

>hedonism
This is their dog whistle for our "freedoms" that they hate so much. The Abrahamic religions routinely allow children to be ass-raped by priests and behead non-believers.

On an individual level, yes. Then the moral is just there to give your own singular life purpose and make your own day to day life easier of conscience.

On a macro-level, a common morale is necessary if nothing else to have a judicial system and a rule of law. Of course it will be pragmatically suspended if required, but must from day to day be set in place to have som semblance of order, which is completely rational.

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so faggots can be killed with greater ease

good answer, fucking retards be acting like their 'objective' morality actually came from the skies. They're also man made you idiots.

>It's impossible to govern without religion
This is how Muslims justify Sharia law

>We all pretty much have the same man-made morals. Theists are just dishonest about theirs.
oh great secular humanism the greatest moral compass ever faggots raping kids is ok muslims and niggers raping white women is ok white guys not bending the knee and sucking dick is bad
>This is their dog whistle for our "freedoms" that they hate so much. The Abrahamic religions routinely allow children to be ass-raped by priests and behead non-believers.
in the case of the "priests" raping kids those are FAGGOTS that infiltrated the catholic church (look it up almost all of those cases are done by men who were in sexual relations with other adult men) if we followed traditional christian teachings those faggots would have been killed
also fuck freedom fascism is so much better

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>objective morality
Even if it existed, who says a book is the manual to it?

That's not rational, what you're describing is nothing more than group-think

Which is fine, it's an evolutionary adaptation to enable efficient communal action, but it's *not* a rational behavior, it's an emotional and communal one

To put it another way

What do you think old-world religion *was?*

It was just the name and the mythos that was given to the shared values and morals of a society.

Says he whom sodomize himself to the BBC.

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You didn't read what I was actually saying

Then, by your standards, what is "rational"?

And no, I don't care enough to see if this is staed further up.

>oh great secular humanism the greatest moral compass ever faggots raping kids is ok

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>A nation needs an objective basis of morality (eg religious text)
Fucking cringe. All religious morality is a riff on the Golden Rule. And usually made worst. So just stick to the golden rule instead, which anyone can use and understand, including relativist atheists, because the golden rule is objective morality.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - “We are saved by Grace through faith and not by works

Rational is based on empirical, real-world evidence and fact. It's purely utilitarian

In the real world, morality doesn't exist. One need look no further than the behavior of other animals to see this. They have no concept of moral behavior, they simply do whatever is in their own best interest at any given time- or in the best interest of their offspring, because their brain tells them to as a quirk of evolution.

Morality has no basis in rationality because it's never been rational to pursue a moral code of action when it's not in your own best interest or the best interest of those whose welfare you value.

Nearly everybody practices some form of morality despite this fact, for emotional and societal reasons. It defies rationality. Rationally speaking, as long as you don't get caught you can do anything, but we all feel morally that this isn't the case.

It's a purely emotion-driven response. A valuable one, I hasten to add.

>in the case of the "priests" raping kids those are FAGGOTS that infiltrated the catholic church
Then why did the church go to such lengths to protect these holy fathers? Paying off and shaming victims. Destroying records. Relocating pedophile priests to other countries to avoid extradition.

>if we followed traditional christian teachings
Jesus traveled around with 12 other men and he never once speaks out against homosexuality.

thoughtcatalog.com/ronnie-hafmerb/2013/01/7-reasons-jesus-was-gay/

Public schoolteachers represent the fucking government and rape kids dozens of times more frequently than any religious officer.

Hiding the misdeeds of pedophiles was considered the correct and appropriate response by all of society in the 70s and 80s, because shaming them was considered cruel.

This was not a catholic thing.

>because the golden rule is objective morality
It's universal. Even most mammals seem to have an innate understanding of not mistreating their own kind.

>he didnt read the second part
"in the case of the "priests" raping kids those are FAGGOTS that infiltrated the catholic church (look it up almost all of those cases are done by men who were in sexual relations with other adult men) if we followed traditional christian teachings those faggots would have been killed"

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The Golden Rule does not exist in nature. Nothing outside of the human brain exhibits any such tendency. In fact, reality frequently rewards that kind of advantage-taking behavior.

See also the existence of parasitic organisms.

While true this doesn't change that Christianity is 100% cucked.
>inb4 muh colonial conquests
That's exactly it, Christians felt so compelled traveling the world spreading their faith they went to Africa trying to "civilize" them which ultimately just resulted in them fleeing to western countries

This. This this this.

Humans aren't animals. We need morality to curb our vengefulness and the chaos it creates. Otherwise all societies would descend a whirlwind of violence the moment one person kills another and their respective families and friends seek an ever broadening revenge.

We have to contain our base desires and understand that we cannot use an innocent to punish a guilty, that we must defer judgement and vengeance to a neutral third party. These are the opposite of the emotional responses you say they are.

>Public schoolteachers
Private schoolteachers never rape children?

>rape kids dozens of times more frequently than any religious officer.
It's OK that priests ass-rape kids because schoolteachers have a much lower statistical propensity? This is the worst moral equivalence argument I've ever read in print. Are you Shi'ite or Sunni?

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Naturalistic arguments are small brained.

>creates '''moral texts'''

>be vague about certain parts

>rabbi interprets the text differently because muh synonyms, allegories, time period, etc.

they do this with the constitution too

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And yet, again, there is still that universal and essential quality of morality

It still exists even when there are no consequences

If it were the utilitarian construct you want to believe it is, this aspect would not exist.

Not only that, but there have been many instances of societies perfectly willing to do those things as a result of their own moral codes. Whether or not their society suffered in the long term for this, it didn't immediately destabilize and destroy those societies.

This. Not to mention, it virtually never happens outside of the organized religions with large power structures does it? When was the last time a decentralized religious group suffered from a mass epidemic like this? Never.

>No such thing. Men make morals.
No they don’t. They come pre-built with them.

I'm an agnostic, I'm just so over the idea that the Catholic Church is the only faction on Earth responsible for the fact that pedos hide in their numbers.

Blaming ANY organization that works with children for attracting pedophiles is fucking retarded, unless that organization has an abnormal number of pedophiles

Because the latter is the only indication that it's being encouraged by the organization in some way.

Actually sexual abuse is rampant in tiny cults.

>muh jesus didnt speak out against it
Nigger he didnt speak out against smoking meth or heroin either GUESS ITS OK THEN church fathers? whats that? apostles opinions? invalid!
the church has become too liberal and modernist just look at the so called pope right now saying he and by extent all catholics cant judge faggots for their disgusting acts
>thoughtcatalog.com/ronnie-hafmerb/2013/01/7-reasons-jesus-was-gay/
oh great faggots trying AGAIN to claim one of the great men that are symbols against their disgusting depravity were secretly queers

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>morality
>universal
Baby's first step into moral philosophy eh? I'm sorry you're retarded

Fair point. I would like to have a proper answer right now, but I think I'll have to mull this over.

>tiny cults
>not organized, no authoritarian power structure
Jesus christ you're one dumb fuck

>"in the case of the "priests" raping kids those are FAGGOTS that infiltrated the catholic church
So you know they control the church, yet you are still getting knees for them? Taking cummunion? You're one of them alright.

Rationality is literally that you do what will gain you the most, which could be both in your own interest or the group interest. This makes even animalistic behaviour in a sense rational. Moral is what comes when you codify rationality.

>I'm just so over the idea that the Catholic Church is the only faction on Earth responsible for the fact that pedos hide in their numbers.
The Jews, Baptists, Muslims, etc. all have sex scandals going on all the time.

As abhorrent as it is, 3 million teachers in the US have hundreds of billions of child contact hours per year and the tiniest fraction of rape/molestations.

By start contrast, 331 thousand religious figures only have tens of thousands of annual child contact hours with currently over 1000 priests and other clergy accused. Statistically higher sexual crimes by several orders of magnitude.

>Because the latter is the only indication that it's being encouraged by the organization in some way.
Having a back-door plan that helps rapists escape justice sounds like it would be a major perk to pedophiles.

yeah it's too vague

All authority comes from God.

I said that a specific quality of morality was universal as a definition of morality, not that any specific morality was universal, you illiterate shitwhistle

>Except that's fucking wrong

The stats on child molestation are per capita. A larger *percentage* of teachers are rapists, despite there being many times more teachers than priests.

Which ones?