The Death of Rome

Good times weak men etc., wealth concentration, decline in birth rate followed

Is this a Caravaggio ?

Lead poisoning

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>Here's your "EASTERN - ROMAN EMPIRE" Bro

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And your source for this is?
>Constantine civil war
No different from any Pagan before him.
The Republic had 200 years of civil war before Augustus made the Empire.

No, it's Oath of the Horatii by Jacques-Louis David but it does have a very similar style.
Quite possible.

Yeah, this time he changed the Roman Worldview that guided the Romans for Millenias and turned into becoming Softer Cukc version.

>The Edict of Milan, the February AD 313 agreement to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire.
The first Christians were all Jews, Imagine letting in the jew.

Thanks , I was intrigued because of the dramatic shading , similar to a Caravaggio.

Have there been any studies on lead concentrations in human remains from Roman cities? Does lead not deposit in bone? Have archaeologists not discovered any soft tissues from Roman city sites?

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F E M A L E S
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A
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BRAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

By that point the 'Jews' and Christians had become massively split.
Armenia for example was the first Christian nation, was it Jewish?
If it was the case that Christianity weakened the Empire why did the Eastern Half, the more Christian half, survive for another 1000 years?

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Rome was fucked because it was a slave economy and depended upon plunder. The Crisis of the Third Century predated Christianity and proved that Rome was in terminal decline. Once the plunder stopped and Rome's boundaries stopped expanding, its Middle classes were ground into the dust because they were competing against slave labor on Latifundia.

T O I L E T

AHEM

*SNIFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*

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They Roman Empire expanded at every possible opportunity.

They would expand and the people placed in charge of foreign land acquisition would be in charge of solving domestic problems of alien people with alien ideology.

Rome kept its wealth in Rome, the most prized war trophy’s made their way to Rome.

When the ‘emissaries’(generals awarded land, acquire from war) of foreign acquisition asked for aid- Rome said they should be wealthy from the land- not asking for aid.

Pass leadership down to your son, and then your grandson- and then these local ideologies are just that, local ideology and not alien.

So these grandsons are all like “fuck Rome, they don’t do shit for us” and accepted aid from enemies of Rome.

>If it was the case that Christianity weakened the Empire why did the Eastern Half, the more Christian half, survive for another 1000 years?
If the Eastern-Roman Empire was so better why didn't it reconquered the whole territories of the original Rome? Stronk Julius Caesar wouldn't be pleased with the Christkike Constantine, strolling as some emperor.

>Armenia for example was the first Christian nation, was it Jewish?
It's not, But the British Empire is a Christian nation can you compare the decay of Christian Britain vs Islamic Iran ,Shinto Japan today?

Notice how the most Christian-European countries of today was the most subverted, replaced and genocided?

mostly because they stopped managing immigration in the proper way, and allowed too many snowniggers without imposing roman culture on them.

Once other lords got word of less fortunate lords leaving Rome and being eaten up by someone else without repercussion from Rome it was apparent that Rome was not as mighty as it once was, so they declared sovereignty.

Goes deeper but that’s the cliff notes.

My mother was a Mediterranean Historian.

(you)
It's not worth arguing in bad faith.
Interesting hypothesis do you have any sources?

Basically, all empires must fall and for the same reasons. Once you've expanded as far as you can, and looted all there is in the provinces/colonies/etc., the elites are left with a choice between lowering their own standard of living and looting the imperial core (homeland). Guess which one they invariably choose? Once the core becomes thoroughly hollowed out, it collapses. Sometimes spectacularly, sometimes slowly, but fall it must and fall it does.
Same process is bringing down the US Empire today (and brought your own Brit Empire down a few decades back).
tl;dr - All empires cannibalize themselves to death.

>The best example is the claim that Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire, yet nowhere have I seen anything that can remotely back this up.
You start with that then you cry in the corner because of meanie words.

Yeah, keep getting replaced.
You know i was right when your Daughter gets raped in your street

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Slave economy, Mongolians, degeneracy, Christianity, tail end of a civilization.

Usury and invasion. Same as always.

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poor bait...

The fall of Rome was caused by many different factors over a very long period of time. Weak leaders, corruption, immigration, replacement of a strong religion with a weak one, etc.

Constantly paying tribute to G*rmans and allowing them citizenship were a major factor

It’s not a hypothesis, the goths pushed back Roman rule and declared sovereignty all the way back to Rome where they saved it.

There was eastern empires too but they didn’t want the heat as much as the romans.

Everytime I bring this up at family discussions (most the males in my family have strong interests in history & politics), my pro-nazi larper uncle rambles on about how the fall of Roman AND Greek societies happened when they began tolerating homosexuality, lol

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>Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire
Yes, that's why it lasted for another 1000 years in the
east and was the most developed country.
>So why did Rome fall?
>To keep this political, what parallels can be drawn from then to today.
You see some big splat on a map called the roman empire and think it was one big country, pretty uniform. Well? Wrong. The richest provinces were all in the east. Cnstantinopole brought 20-30 times in more money than the whole of Gaul. Britania, Gaul and northwestern iberia, were completely undeveloped (literaly a few roads and a few garrisons, that's all). The west only drew wealt from norhtern africa and Italy, but Italy became underpopulated over centuries. When northern africa rebelled, everything collapsed (e.g. no money to defend huge chunks of land that brought in nothing).
You can't really draw parallels to today.

The historical purpose of Rome was to give birth to Christianity once that happpend it was no longer needed and slowly lost influence and faded away. Christianity purpose was to give birth the the enlightenment and liberal western values.

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What parallels? We are reliving exactly the same situation right now its western civilization falling again.
1.hordes of immigrants settling in the empire and not assimilating.
2.devaluation of the currency and collapse under massive debt.
3.corruption.
4.social decay and immorality.
5.the elites being totally disconnected from the average persons reality.

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If you want to re-word the Christian vs. Rome problem... it should be looked at as: Rome was a state religion (the religion of Rome was Rome). Christian religion is completely 100% incompatible with Rome’s state religion. There was no wiggle room. So being honest you could legitimately state that Christians destroyed Rome. Being Christian was more important than having a functioning society

Im not 100% that it was Emperor Constantine, but one of the Christian Emperor made laws agaist the persecution of jews and gave jewish people special rights in society (mostly to do with property and money lending)

Similar to what Charlemagne did.
Id say shit was alredy falling apart by this point with Roman Citizenship laws been relaxed, (no longer had to be in the army for 20 years, and so on) but it definitely helpped romes collapse.

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>what parallels can be drawn from then to today

In reference to what Empire? Yours already collapsed about a half century ago, and ours is right around the corner. It can be said that the fall is a result of being overambitious and spreading themselves too thin, or becoming too multiculti within the homeland (every empire had this problem near their end, look at the Babylonians, Mamelukes, Romans, Spanish, etc).

Empires can be viewed through different ages, ie Ages of Pioneers, Conquest, Intellectualism, Decadence. We're at the age in our empire of the citizens becoming too used to life on top and unwilling to sacrifice themselves for the nation. This will be our downfall when we're eventually defeated by a peoples with more "patriotism" (not patriotism as an intellectual idea, but as a full emotional conviction to expanding your people's rule.

This is obvious stuff by this board's standards but figured it'd help conversation a bit

>1.hordes of immigrants settling in the empire and not assimilating
or you can look at it like this: the romans stopped going forwards from their lands, to subjugate and colonize new land, and instead allowed people in, and hoped they would defend the border regions for them

>1.hordes of immigrants settling in the empire and not assimilating.
Rome already was extremely ethnically diverse.
>3.corruption.
>4.social decay and immorality.
Wtf are you talking about? These were long gone when Rome collapsed. They happened in 1-3 centuries AD but then manged to get rid of them. What degeneracy was there after Constantine?

See my post

The only thing you did not notice is that we have the same bankers at the time, the difference lies only in the technology and suface concerned with our hold.

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> know about lead poisoning.
> make lead pipes.
> The Romans besides being idle become stupid.
> ???
> Profit.

I’ll leave this super rare rabbit hole.. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Agrimensorum_Romanorum

This book was lost to history until 1730’s-ish... it was hidden by Catholic monks. There were only two copies ever found. The monks kept it to prove what they owned in property. Surveying was pagan deviant knowledge, but needed by society... anyhow why I mention it is... in the codex, the church interviews Christian convert land surveyors. What they were attempting to nail down was how could property boundaries be incorporated into a Christian run government. The paganism was so deep they scraped it and everyone became a church or king’s slave.

youtube.com/watch?v=DnNfrnBuZIE
This is a well known and estimated professor, he is often in tv. This is very important so I'll translate, how I can, for you barbarians:
>So why does the Western Roman empire fall?Because at a certain point it is not more capable of handling immigration.The roman empire let people come in for centhuries because it needed, starting after the big smallpox epidemy. People passed through the limes (border) with the authority's permission. Entire tribes, popoulations settled in gallia, Italy, to work, to enter the army. Then at a certain point this flow became too numerous, the burocracy that had to manage it became too corrupt, politicians don't know what to do, this creates an explosive situation that leads to riots, wars, devastations and what we call barbarian invasions and the fall of the empire.

This is just a piece of a documentary, there are also other reasons

1. They were ethnically diverse but they had to assimilate. If you dont assimilate you are subverting the structure of the empire.
3 and 4
Rome didnt collapse in one day it was a long and drawn out process. Our western civilization will collapse just like the last one. History repeats itself, its cyclical desu.

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Rome was a nation of degenerates, being pressured by the rise of Christianity helmed by Jews who sought to place themselves at the top of the institution, and ultimately torn apart by the Pagans who previously held out against Roman influence.

Sounds familiar

This rabbit hole is highly subverted... if you are remotely interested a college professor in England translated it in early 2000. The book is almost unobtainium. Limited printing, but it can be found in collections.

>Limited printing, but it can be found in collections.
Such as?

>Basically, all empires must fall and for the same reasons. Once you've expanded as far as you can, and looted all there is in the provinces/colonies/etc., the elites are left with a choice between lowering their own standard of living and looting the imperial core (homeland). Guess which one they invariably choose? Once the core becomes thoroughly hollowed out, it collapses. Sometimes spectacularly, sometimes slowly, but fall it must and fall it does.
>Same process is bringing down the US Empire today (and brought your own Brit Empire down a few decades back).
>tl;dr - All empires cannibalize themselves to death.
repilled

instability, id say not having good system passing on the emperor title without praetorian guards and generals killing each other all the time was the biggest problem, thats why republic was better and after republic it was pretty much a downhill

>same reason hitler's pipedream of bringing it back was easily thwarted.
Retard spotted.

>And Christianity amplified it
No it didn't.
> Also Constantine inciting a Civil War from the inside.
You realize the entire 3rd century was a series of civil wars right? Constantine actually brought some stability back to Rome.

sparta was better

>Notice how the most Christian-European countries of today was the most subverted, replaced and genocided?
Weird how all those nations were the most powerful in the world, but when christianity started to decline, they degenerated. You're a filthy kike hiding behind a (((memeflag))).

illegal immigration of germanic tribes

Mineral deposits built up around the pipes protec from lead poisoning. It was lead in the pans tgat killed the elite

it was pretty good in its time, but it withered out and it had bad laws that doomed it and im not talking about the military ones

>The Republic had 200 years of civil war before Augustus made the Empire.
the number you are looking for is 50, not 200

Except how spartan females controlled literally all the financial wealth. I loved their culture. I find it funny how rome didn't destroy sparta but they kept them just how they were out of sheer curiosity. Like i remember reading that roman citizens would essential sight see in sparta because it was so bizarre.

don't waste italian history pill on barbarians, they can't even read. Let them believe in what they believe.

Sparta was pretty much a husk of its former self when Romans came, they couldnt believe that the current Spartans were the ones from the legends

It's a shame. It's even more a travesty now that Spartan/Greek blood is essentially turkish.

According to payne the issues started happening when the plebian classes began advocating for their own interests. The patrician classes of the few wealthy families had diminished control over time verus the ever expanding multicultural plebian class. Remember Romans were very good at taking over other places by allowing relative self autonomy of puppet states as long as taxes were paid. There were alot of outside wars that stretched Rome thin, expensive wars with carthage weakened the republic against other aggressors.

The only italian history pill is one from sicilia. SICILIANO FORZA

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The rise of christianity certaintly didnt help because it was a growing faction from within the empire. Think of it as islam is seen today here. Some see it as a benign belief system others see it just another symptom of the decay.

The expansion of a greedy military class also weakened them because instead of fighting for land ownership and their country they began fighting for income which in Paynes eyes was another big signal of collapse

It was a series of catastrophes of cosmological origin, mainly changes of planetary orbits and their effects. Massive earthquakes, volcano eruptions, tsunamis, oceans water level rose, debris from comets was falling and they themselves scorched the Earth, creating the Sahara, and Earth was a victim of tremendous electrical discharge (Grand Canyon was created by one of these discharges as well as the Eye Of Sahara/The Richat Structure and others), most likely of celestial origin. Before that disaster, Sahara was green and full of cities. After that disaster, world-wide civilizations descended into chaos, and reset took at least 4-5 generations, during which newly created Catholic Church emerged as the leader of new power-structures and they artificially injected into official historical chronology around 1000 phantom years (that's why there is supposed 1000 years of the Dark Ages - claim that Europe was stuck in the same place), to cover up catastrophes. The word "Bishop" itself means "the one who knows the stars/sky/heavens". The "Renaissance" was in reality just re-building of pre-disaster (disaster means "falling star" [comet]) Roman civilization, which ended in around 5th century AD, when disaster happened world-wide destroying existing power-structures of the world reducing people to savagery and leading to most of them becoming illiterate after few generations, and then when situation stabilized, the rebuilding started. Look at work of Giovanni Battista Piranesi, study old maps and books, it's all there. We went from around 5th century AD straight to 15th AD with 1000 years that never existed. Pompeii was still existing just five centuries ago, as well Pliny the Elder that was killed when he went so see himself the Vesuvius eruption, that destroyed Pompeii. Even the culture and clothes during the end of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance were very similar and right before the Renaissance pagan Roman "gods" and their icons were still dominating.

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lack of a clear process for succession of Emperors. The Senate was too corrupt, effeminate and distracted by frivolity to step up and take over. Secondly, Rome was doomed as soon as it had to implement a standing army, it was only a matter if time before ambitious men realised using the army to obtain power was superior to civil means.

Hope this helps OP. And sorry its MONTESQUIEU NOT PAYNE
book im unsure of source credibility but it says its authoritative in nature.

>Rome fell because of immigration
Well EU better let them in. Your country is doing your part isn't it?

ive heard of these hundreds of years of fake history, but how does one explain islam? in 5th century AD there was no Islam and then in 15th century AD you have it stretching from Spain to India?

This book i was referencing from

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Based

Rome, just like the U.S. ( or west as a whole), lost its Identity gradually overtime. The adaptation of Christianity by the Empire is one of many things to contribute to this.

Christianity was just a sign that the empire was at an end because literally everything had been changed at that point. It only survived 95 more years after Constantine won his war converting moat the population.

The crisis of the third century can be explained by one thing accumulating sense the start of rome itself, women's power. Women, like in sparta, would be given their husband's wealth upon their death, in turn creating very powerful women. These women of course knew nothing of what it took to accumulate all of this and so they spent it frivolously like dumb niggers. By the time the third century rolled around the empire was so devoid of honor and respect all that was wanted we were Indian, Sassanian, and Chinese imports for women and faggots to enjoy. Eventually the coughers were literally emptied and the next warlord who came along, Odawacker, asked for money and they had none, no armies, and no pride. So they were raped and pillaged for 1000 years like dumb fuck assholes all cuz they let women live like people and not mindless animals.

>So why did Rome fall?
You're starting out with a fallacy. Rome did not fall. It moved to Constantinople, and ruled the world there for a thousand years. Every bit of the Roman empire has ruled at least part of the world, for a bit. Spain, England, France, well, France actually cut the head off of Rome.
Because the Roman Empire morphed into the Roman Church, which still exists.
With the same structure.
With the same goals.
With the same methodology.
And with the same satanic supervision.
See, the devil used to live in Babylon, and convinced people they could build a tower that reached into heaven. Would have worked too, but God scuttled them around the earth, speaking different languages, so they could no longer communicate effectively.
Then the devil moved from Rome to Pergamos, in the Greek empire, and then when Rome took Pergamos, the devil moved to Rome, and has lived there ever since. Soon, the devil will move back to Babylon, and this game will be over.
Roman Emperor = Pontifex Maximus = Pope
Senate = College of Cardinals
Praetorian Guard = Swiss Guard
All roads lead to Rome = Only our road leads to heaven.

It's all the same.
Rome never fell.
And the EU is the conscious re-birthing of the Holy Roman Empire.

>The best example is the claim that Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire, yet nowhere have I seen anything that can remotely back this up.

It's actually a meme perpetuated by Edward Gibbon, who wrote the first and greatest history of the Decline and Fall, one of the first true history works of modern times and a man who absolutely loathed Catholicism and the Roman conversion to Christianity by extension. Christianity in many ways strengthened the Empire by filling a spiritual void that appeared in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD and uniting Romans who perceived themselves as Christians against foreign hordes (who often were Christian too).

The main reason why the Western Empire was destroyed was because of Roman cultural proclivities towards civil wars stemming from an aristocratic obsession with political ambition which was a distinctly Roman trait. That plus the weak institutional grounds of the Imperial throne, which could be claimed by virtually anyone by the later years led to constant civil wars so that by the mid-5th century small bands of barbarian tribal niggers basically just walked in over an Empire without an army.

>what parallels can be drawn from then to today.

Don't hire foreigners to do jobs your countrymen should be doing.

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All right thinking people loathe Catholicism.

>letting the jew in
Romans invented jews

Thats false information. Jews were a people the romans had conquered and had continuous problems with.

>All right thinking people loathe Catholicism.

My point is that a man with a pathological hatred of pre-1500s Christianity is incapable of writing a non-biased history of a time period dominated by religious takeover of the Roman world.

All right thinking people have a pathological hatred of Catholicism.

>Jews were a people the romans had conquered and had continuous problems with.
right, then they killed them all, and then figured out their religion was useful to them, so they put that religion on someone else and controlled them, similar to Islam

Nope.
Killed a bunch of them; the rest fled around the world.
And have only recently re-gathered from their scattering, in their own nation.
In your lifetime.
You're seeing it, in real time. And you appear to be missing it.

Rome never fell, the Vatican is full of Pagan and Roman symbols and the US (while a 'christian nation under god') is full of Roman architecture, statues and symbolism.

They didnt kill all of them. Remember you need people to subjugate people in a republic for taxes. The jews do what they always do. Subvert and inflitrate easier targets and morph and appear elsewhere until they can attain higher positions of power

These "Jews" seem like smart and capable people.

I am not disagreeing with you.

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And I am not disagreeing with you.
However, I would apply the bias of historians to literally every single historian, ever, not just Gibbon.

"Islam" was just a mix of pre-Christianity local cults that were domination Arab world. "Islam" has so many versions, that it shouldn't even be considered a religion. "Islam" was a creation of Catholic Church and Jesuits, they stitched together many local cults and organized it into more-or-less centralized organization. There was a huge power-struggle in "Islamic" world, as evidenced in differences in texts and even qiblas, which originally pointed to Petra, but now new mosques point to Mecca. Catholic Church did with Middle East the same thing they did with Europe. They gathered many different local cults and mixed them together creating more-or-less organized "religion", but over time they were still editing texts to fit their agenda at specific time. If you want to know how they can re-write history without leaving a trace, then just look at ISIS how they are deliberately destroying old artifacts that are detrimental to their religious narrative. Catholic Church and Jesuits were doing exactly the same for centuries.

The 1000 phantom years are evident when you study coins, maps, religions, old books, symbology found all over the world etc. You think why Catholic Church was killing off "witches" and "heretics"? Why there was a war between Protestants and Catholics? It was all caused by Catholic re-writing of history and anyone who was publicly speaking the truth was immediately an enemy branded "heretic" or "witch" and then tortured and/or killed.

They are but they dont tend to be the type of self sacrificing nation building other peoples are. The archetypical roman citizen was noble and believed in something greater than himself. They grew so large not because of technological advantage but they were a hardy simple people with love of country. Their discipline through infantry was some the greatest the world has ever seen.

>would apply the bias of historians to literally every single historian, ever, not just Gibbon.

Of course, it's just that Gibbon's entire theory rests upon the assumption that Christianity = society corrosive cancer that enervates men and turns them into cucks, while conveniently forgetting that the Eastern Roman Empire continued to survive for a thousand years after. It's his blind spot, and regarded as such by modern historians. Not to say that it isn't an amazing work though. With Gibbon's footnotes it's one of the best books ever written.

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