Libertarian to Fascist Pipeline

So I'm wondering how people went from libertarianism to fascism or white nationalism. To me it doesn't make sense to go from "the fed causes the boom-bust cycle", "the public school system, the FDA, , has been corrupted by progressives", believing in the economic calculation problem, bottom-up resistance through nullification and secession; to the only way forward is to overtake the federal government and create a top-down fascist system that believes in our values.

I can understand conceding that libertarianism would only work with white people, but why aren't people advocating a minarchist state that controls immigration to only let in white immigrants if any? If you were libertarian why did you drop your economic values?

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To add: Why doesn't freedom of association work and thus needs to be done at a state/country level?

White nationalism doesn't necessitate fascism, in fact most WN are not fascist at all (especially if you correctly deliniate between natsoc & fascism)

I am one such libertarian wn personally. I know that a white state in the PNW would be miles more libertarian than the present US.
You can listen to the Tom woods show and radio free northwest.

I listen to Tom Woods. How Radio Free Northwest?

I went to work and fucking hated it

A lot of people saw that the "live and let live" and "so long as it doesn't hurt me, I don't care" attitudes led to detrimental effects on society. These mindsets offer the same weakness as pacifism: You may not want to fight, but your enemies certainly do. You will be dominated if you do not fight back, so you must stand up for your ideals.

>If you were libertarian why did you drop your economic values?

I realised that freedom was appropriate for those at the top of the intelligence distribution, somewhere between the top 1%-10%. The remainder simply don't have it within them to do anything with freedom but misuse it. You offer them a free market in food, and they will eat MacDonalds. You offer them a free market in art, and they watch Netflix. They need to be directed by their betters or they are just going to flounder and eventually ruin the whole moral structure.

Very few people are actually libertarian because statism is the easy way out

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I went down the libertarian-to-alt-right pipeline back in 2013. It's been a hell of a ride!

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To me far-left and far-right are the same. They think they know what's good for everybody and want to force it.
While I don't support degeneracy, I don't support forcing anyone to comply. In the long run cryptocurrencies will change the game because it will become very difficult to gather tax and thus monopolies of violence to form.

I stopped being libertarian after realizing that you needed a homogeneous population of 110+ IQ white acting people to make it work.

Went to work and got to watch stuff move at 100mm/min while listening to podcasts. Comfy time and good pay. Capitalism works.

So you believe people aren't able to handle themselves in a free market?

While there are some advocates, Libertarianism/ancap doesn't exclude defending yourself with whatever force is necessary. This includes hiring a PMC.

But what about stigma or the free market of "I shouldn't tell anyone about this or I'll be discriminated against in polite society"? Also health insurance companies cannot increase premiums on obese people, only smokers afaik, so they can't adequately price their plans to the risk the insuree incurs.

>Why doesn't freedom of association work and thus needs to be done at a state/country level?
Just look at the state of the West today. People who hyper-focus on issues of Authority (like AnCaps) blame everything on the state. But the changes to the state apparatus have already followed the decline and collapse in every other section of society. Example: Gay marriage legalization can only happen in a society in which most people have been desensitized to the gay shit. The State is only a threat on an ideological issue once the actual battle has been fought and is over.
The root cause of all of the West's decline, as a whole, has nothing to do with the state.Thus the key element of change From Libertarian to NatSoc: The problems are too far deep into society to be solved through voluntary action. Libertarians usually jump on the Hoppe bus before being told and realizing the final truth: A Fascist country is one in which the state and it's citizenry are the same thing. In a Fascist country, the state is utterly dependant on taking the people with them, as they admit and push into the minds of citizens that Violence is the only real form of power. Fascism is, in a strange and perverted sort of way, the most libertarian social order there is: Market economics with the state run purely by people who see violence as necessary, and the citizenry holds all of the people. A libertarian is closer to a National Socialist or Fascist than they think, they just don't have all the information yet, and haven't been provided the right reasoning by rational people yet (something that doesn't happen in the real world because we NatSocs are banned from public discourse for refusing to lie).

>and the citizenry holds all of the people
and the citizenry holds all of the power*

It doesn't make sense because you're at the beginning of the pipeline.

Literally every single problem libertarianism pretends to address is caused by Jews and nonwhites. Libertarianism just conflates "government" with "jews."

Capitalism is the best thing that ever happened for the Jews. The idea that no government at all is even possible, let alone good for the white race, is ridiculous.

You'll get there, user.

Gotta agree. Libertarians have to come up with a theory of how something would work out while statists just go "State wills it, and it happens" with no thought to unintended consequences.

I think this is wrong. secede the space and work toward your ends in another manner. I think the essence of libertarianism is "exit" and that the frontier is the only real place for it. At the edge of civilization. there are no longer any accessible frontiers so they have no choice but domination.

They were supverted by (((Them)))

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>while statists just go "State wills it, and it happens" with no thought to unintended consequences.

This is why you don't understand how the "pipeline" works, or how it even exists. Your only understanding of Fascism comes from the strawmans levelled against it, and as such your entire view of Fascism is a strawman.

Just hang around here for another year or so, you'll begin to see it as you're de-conditioned from the propaganda you've been fed all your life.

I've been at this for awhile and all I ended up was more libertarian.

So the federal reserve is run by Jews. If it was run by white people would it actually work in stopping booms and busts?

There is no solution, which is why it will always be a fantasy. There will always be a state so long as humans exist in sufficient population.

I went from rabid libertarian in rural colorado to quiet fascist in LA once i realized that my people are weak trash and must be fixed. I started to value the strength, unity, and future of my people more than my personal happiness or freedom.

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You're not understanding the depth of the problem. The questions you're asking tell me you care more about money than your own people. The goal of a WN country wouldn't be capitalism.

OK all Jews kill. Would our nation be better run with a dictator/government telling everyone what to do or free white people choosing what do on their own?

You can't really hire a PMC to defend against the ills of society though. Look at how culture has degenerated. To say that this has no impact on the people is to be the man staring at shadows on the cave wall.

It's both about removing commies. Only difference is the urgency of it

this, we have run out of space and we are constantly flooded with people from nations that have no concept or respect to the idea of individual liberty or the concept of a restrained government that allows autonomous people to live together based on a mutually beneficial order of non-aggression and property rights. The problems we face require drastic action that libertarianism is unequipped to handle. This is why libertarians start to see their system as the ideal end state, but not the position that needs to be taken at this moment in time, but rather a pragmatic system like fascism.

They're choosing what to do right now, and the overwhelming majority of people choose very poorly. Absolutely, a leader or leaders need to prevent common people from ruining the country for everyone else.

Look around you, user. Deep down, you know that most people don't deserve freedom and can't be trusted with it.

>In the long run cryptocurrencies will change the game because it will become very difficult to gather tax and thus monopolies of violence to form.

That's retarded. Even if you trade with digital money, you're still physical people using physical computers to do so. No way around that.

>Look around you, user. Deep down, you know that most people don't deserve freedom and can't be trusted with it.
You're talking to a libertarian. People can learn from their mistakes, and learn from other's mistakes. If there's no bailout option from government, they'll be even more cautious. Look around you, you're not going to do the stupid shit other people do but otherwise get away with due to our generous welfare system.

Same way communists became liberals and vice versa.

Money is just a measure of production, not some pseudo-goal. I want my people to be wealthy either objectively or for the very least compared to other people. Effective healthcare, education etc come as a result of a good economy.

>can't refute points
>just ignores everything

So you're a shitposter or a shill. Sounds about right. Good job, cuck.

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because a libertarian state in that sense is like a communist state
a libertarian state cannot exist, if the world isn't (at least mostly) libertarian

Statists all around the world (that is every single country) will fight your libertarian regime. You would become everything they are afraid of, and they will turn on you.

A libertarian state isn't ready for that. If you allow that freedom, both economic and social, your country will be too weak to repel both foreign and internal threats. Your people will abandon you if things get hard (and they certainly will), by either straight-up leaving your country, or by commiting crimes, or by not giving a fuck and just chilling.

This is why you need a fascist regime first. To fight those that wish to destroy you. To force your people to do their part.
Only after you put up the defences and ensure your safety, then you can follow with reforms that will your country libertian.
One can say that if a state becomes fascist, it will never turn libertarian, because the government will be afraid to lose its power and it will use its power to beat the libertarians down, but if that happens then you simply failed to create a proper fascist regime. A proper fascist regime serves your interests, and descrimination is applied only to those people that are your enemies.
Either way, you CANNOT create a libertarian state without going through a fascist phase. Its like throwing a baby into a wilderness, it will not survive.

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Extreme political ideologies (libertarianism, communism, fascism) only work in smaller, homogeneous societies where people trust their neighbours and believe in progressing their community.
With the rise in race baiting and political partisanship people are being forced into only a handful of groups. You're either a Social Democrat that supports open borders, socialized medicine, and white privilege, or you're a GOP Israeli shill, or if you disagree with them you're a alt-right, a "Nazi" or a white nationalist.
If the media and politicians keep forcing people into groups and keep repeating the rise of Nat socialism or white nationalism then they will normalize it. When more and more people are outed or publicly claim to be apart of these groups then more people will be comfortable identifying with them.
The best solution would be to give smaller populations more control over their governance then to give more control to an overarching federal government.

>But what about stigma or the free market of "I shouldn't tell anyone about this or I'll be discriminated against in polite society"?

The 90-99% of retards are the majority and will be setting the social norms, so good luck with that working.

as a libertarian it's very easy to lose faith in democracy. look at the democratic debates. Perosnally I don't think giving fewer people more power will fix anything, but the constant voting for gibs and shitting on the constitution makes us unsafe, so I understand why former libertarians might seek more safety from that threat.

Yes, but your wealth is invisible and protected. Yes you can keep extorting until you get something, but it's so ineffective that you're better off just participating in the economy.

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How is saying that people can learn from other's mistakes and the welfare state only perpetuates them not a refutation? Refute my point.

>but why aren't people advocating a minarchist state that controls immigration to only let in white immigrants

Because it is too fucking late, you cretin. It says a lot that a fascist state is more appealing and believed to me more realistic than ever convincing society to block immigration and then cast out the ones that are already here.

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I wasn't responding to that post, kid. I was responding to you as a poster. I've posted relevant information, and you just ignore it for the easier pickings. You don't want your questions answered. Not going to waste my time with you any longer.

I used to want to believe that people could be responsible with freedom, the right to choose what they wanted to do with their own lives. That personal decisions only had an impact on the persons life. Libertarian values would include things like: Completely legal use of drugs, Unregulated Corporations, Sex Workers, Unregulated Education, Complete Freedom for LGBT+BS. I don't like what I see people doing with the freedoms that they have now and how the degeneracy has been spreading so fast. Eco-Fascism is definitely a lot more up my alley. It doesn't even have to be militant and bad for society, its just strict. Society used to be a lot more conformist to family/christian values and was centered around the concept of working hard to serve your family and community and we lost sight of that. The collapse of the nuclear family is why we are looking at such BS. We need to go back.

>doesn't make sense
Sub humans dont understand freedom like European men do.
Everyone will vote gibs even the women.

I mean it does 'work'. I'm not sure what you mean by this comment other than the right to talk to and be around who you would like to. Degenerates hang out with degenerates and good people hang out with good people. Just degeneracy will not be allowed

They can, but they don't, and they never have en masse. That's why libertarianism is a mental exercise, and not a solution. It can't and won't happen, and even if it did, would be destroyed by more violent ideologies. It's the political equivalent of Santa Claus, and the pipeline end when you find out it's not real.

youre not making points, youre just acting like you are. you make a weak appeal to values and try to browbeat people with your own weak interpretation of their position, it's not a point.

>This is why libertarians start to see their system as the ideal end state, but not the position that needs to be taken at this moment in time, but rather a pragmatic system like fascism.

That sounds eerily like the communists' fantasy: "The goal is stateless communism but we need to go through totalitarianism to get there!" It's better to accept that what you aim for is what you're actually going to get.

So would local governments have natsoc levels of control, with the federal government being a hands-off libertarian type state? I would kinda support this desu. I live in a nice area that’s unfortunately liberal as hell so it would really benefit my town.

Their is no perfect ideology, human beings are fallible. No matter what direction we go in their will be the opportunity for someone to fuck us over

Degeneracy will be scorned by people who aren't degenerate. And if the "degeneracy" is actually destructive they'll be removed from the population shortly. If it was actually a good thing, they'll live on and maybe convince others that it was actually not degenerate at all.

They were never libertarians in the first place or didn't/don't understand what libertarianism is.

That's the problem; the majority of people are dumb. The direction they choose to lead society isn't even good, let alone the best.

RetArd AleRt

>your wealth is invisible and protected

It would take 5 minutes for the government to declare a law saying that every digital device has to contain spyware so that any use of cryptocurrency can be monitored.

if this were true then the current degeneracy would not have survived four generations. eventually faith breaks down and you realize that something must be sculpted, you can't wait for it to be slowly eroded and revealed.

I took the opposite route. I lashed out in anger as a teen, then when I understood the founding fathers and actually read a book, I became libertarian.
Also THIS You don't have to be fascist and wank to the Wehrmacht every other minute to love your people

My guess is they liked the "freedom of association" aspect then realized they couldn't enforce it.

Giving women the right to vote is when we started doing gibs, js. They took zero responsibility in society yet received the right to vote. It used to be just landowning educated men could vote, then all men but they had to join the draft. Women have never had to be responsible for anything and immediately started voting for a nanny state

Ancap is not an ideology, it is a lack of ideology/state.

also, you wouldn't be able to even create a libertarian state without going full fash right wing death squads first. A libertarian state allows for the kind of rights and freedoms that are not just frowned upon, the kind of shit you want to allow - the world HATES it, it hates and demonizes you for ever mentioning those rights and freedoms, and it will NEVER let you have those freedoms. At least not voluntarily. This is where you are supposed to turn fascist and simply force the world to accept your rights and freedoms.

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Its better that we all be pragmatic than idealistic.

Yeah thats definitely how things have been working out. Normies aren't even aware of most of the LGBT+BS agenda. They don't know what black lives matter actually preaches. They don't understand whats happened to all of the communities that we've allowed immigration to flood into. You have to actually pay attention to see whats going on around you. With the way our media and art and education is controlled its really easy to keep people from seeing how bad things have gotten. I feel like the vast majority of people would agree with us, that things are going in a bad direction, if they were actually aware. But since they aren't they easily get tricked into voting for insane bullshit because otherwise they feel like bad people.

You can have a secret wallet then lol.
You need resources to enforce any law. With crypto it is increasingly difficult to extort these resources. At some point the extortion becomes non-profitable and the whole thing collapses.
The roman empire in the very end collapsed because they couldn't afford paying the mercenaries for their services to gather taxes. Yes it was "the law" to pay them, but gathering it wasn't sustainable anymore. The mercenaries found more profitable alternatives.

Cunts fucked.

praise anyone who can suffer through having a conversation with a lolbertarian, their refusal to accept reality and focus on impossible "perfect word" scenarios rivals that of you worst liberals

Not really the far left and far right are both authoritarian, just on opposite ends. I can't say they are the same but they are both heading in the direction of bigger and more invasive government. Far left and far right are definitely not libertarian.

I got tired of losing.

>I stopped being libertarian after realizing that you needed a homogeneous population of 110+ IQ white acting people to make it work.
Exactly my point

In Soldiers and Ghosts by JE Lendon he makes a good case for degeneracy being the cause, do you have any reading for me on the tax mercenaries? im not fooled that it has to be 1 single reason. the tax mercenaries seems plausible.

Maybe its a difference in definition. I think all political stances are an ideology simply because you have a worldview and direction you believe society should be pushed in based upon personal Morales and values. IDK how you wouldn't look at that as an ideology but sure. I would agree its a lack of state obviously but the belief that society can function without state is definitely an ideology

No, the communist go that way because they have this batshit insane theory based off of dialectics that believes that maximizing the public state will remove itself as conceived entity within society. Instead everything and nothing is the state and thus society is "stateless". Its fundamentally idealistic and silly.

Liberariansm is idealistic in some sense, but more of like trying to find the ideal contractual form of social norms that minimizes conflict. No libertarian actually thinks society will be perfect in the end, but the idealistic portion believes it will peaceful and function in the absence of the public state. Fascism is something a bit broader and more universal, and in this case is being used as counter to the more aggressive ideologies that plague this country.

>your country will be too weak to repel both foreign and internal threats
We'll have the US military, already discharged and privatized.

>Your people will abandon you if things get hard (and they certainly will), by either straight-up leaving your country, or by commiting crimes, or by not giving a fuck and just chilling.
Most panics/depressions before the federal reserve resolved themselves in 1-2 years.

>the world HATES it, it hates and demonizes you for ever mentioning those rights and freedoms, and it will NEVER let you have those freedoms. At least not voluntarily. This is where you are supposed to turn fascist and simply force the world to accept your rights and freedoms.
I can see this, as every country seems to be in cahoots with fiat money.

Anyone who is libertardian needs to experience a dryer thrown on their brain stem. It's too retarded to be white and a libertardian.

Crypto is retarded simply by being a virtual fiat currency.

The government could destroy all internet infrastructure and jam all communication signals, if they wanted to and needed to to preserve their power.

It's easy to understand. This video explains everything.

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I'm not saying that was the underlying cause for the collapse. Degeneracy and import of slaves was probably the cause of the empire to stop being sustainable. The inability to gather enough taxes is just the end mechanism of any state.

Self determination isn't retarded. I don't think its pragmatic at this point but we also didn't ask for any of what we are seeing. Its definitely someone elses agenda top to bottom

>pretending that they don't already control the government

Yes, but it also has virtual scarcity which makes it trustworthy.
That's a very edgy scenario, the government itself would find it hard to organize without communication. North Korea and China have very limited internet, but even the most basic crypto BTC still works fine there.

Why was this retard around so many niggers by himself?

It's a fast track to slavery. Which is ironic.

Former lolbertarian checking in. I switched because, while noble, the position is WEAK. You can 'leave everyone else alone' but they won't leave you alone. I constantly got ran over debating and defending my position. Now as a fascist and acknowledged white person who is proud of my nation, I mow motherfuckers down with rhetoric that makes their eyes bulge.
>If you were libertarian why did you drop your economic values?
Fuck off kike, 'economic values' are pointless when your societal fabric is fucked. You use that point to sideline libertarians.
>Muh non-intervention.
That's why libertarians get scooted aside, they're for non-intervention so their opponents just tell them to 'stand aside, you're intervening, that's not (((your values)))'

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>denmark
>why are you walking around town like a normal person
okay ill apologise to tyrone and stay out of his city, it belongs to them after all now

All politics are a pipeline to facism

>So I'm wondering how people went from libertarianism to fascism or white nationalism


both are ideologies that require a sense of victimhood, injustice, and someone to demonise, all bolstered by a lack of critical thought.

Well think about it, you are just sitting there. One arrives, then a second one.

If at that point you look anxious and get up and try to leave, you could be attacked for being racist.

More arrive. Leaving at that point makes you look more anxious and racist.

Then eventually you are outnumbered 15 to 1 and have no easy escape.

I was always a racist consciously from a young age. My first racist memory was being around five years old and seeing a fat coalburner for the first time. I felt a visceral disgust. I still remember it as well, the image is burned in my mind.

I wasn't a white nationalist until much later, though. In my early teens, I was a conservative because that's what my parents were. In my late teens, I became a libertarian and was still very much a racist. In my 20s, I discovered white nationalism and felt at home.

>libertarian white nationalist
And how do you plan on unifying your race and building a strong and cohesive community without being a collectivist, Mr Individualist?

I'm not ancap

i went from libertarian to ecofascist to anarcho capitalist in the span of 2 years. all changes happened in days

>literal anarcho communist
hoo, boy.
for what it's worth, Communism and Fascism have way more in common ideologically/philosophically than any strain of Libertarianism has with either.

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>To me far-left and far-right are the same. They think they know what's good for everybody and want to force it.
In that case we should be the ones who force tradition and culture first before the far-left beats us and pushes degeneracy on the world.

It happens when people find out that establishment is actually (((establishment))).

I can see that. I was a partisan until I realized the fed creates the boom-bust cycle and that no party questions the federal reserve, and that in times of economic problems more people trust the government to do more so we'll never get over statism if we do not disband the federal reserve.

You will be a fascist in about a year.

What if revealing their stigma increased their health insurance premiums?