Are .380 pistols worth it?

.380

.32 is just marginally better than .25

Beretta tomcat comes in both flavors

Bersa thunder definitely worth it. Only about $325 and ammo is affordable at somewhere around .34 per round. I have one and I love it. It fits right comfortably in my waistband holster. It's a great cc.

Never shot or even held one. But from the pic it looks like it has a loaded chamber indicator and an ambidextrous safety.

Tomcat only comes in .32ACP. even that round is too much for that frame, as it cracks.

When we were kids, my buddy had pictured gun. It was super reliable with ok accuracy for a pistol it's size. It was fun enough to shoot and did pretty well with modern defensive ammo. My buddy was a beanpole and he could hide it on his person.

My first pistol was a keltec 380. I bought super cheap from a neighbor who bought it for his wife but she never used it. I added the knife style pocket clip so I could carry it IWB at the small of my back. It was not fun to shoot. I practiced with it anyway and could hit 12 inch plates at 10 yards with federal hydra-shok. It made up for its lackluster performance with the ability to slip it in a pocket. I would carry it if I had to work close at my shitty fast food jobs. I got a CDL and carried it to 48 states with me. After I paid off my debts I bought a G19 but continued to carry the 380 on my 18 wheeler because it was small enough to hide in unfriendly states. It was on me the one time I needed a gun. I think it was $150 well spent.

The 380 is retired now, in its place I carry a S&W J frame in a hybrid IWB holster.

semi-rimmed is trash

Get the Glock 42 and be that special snowflake!

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The data says otherwise

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Ask George Zimmerman

>data
>ellifritz study
Pick one. dude never even made his database available lol.

Also:
> "I also believe the data for the .25, .32 and .44 magnum should be viewed with suspicion. I simply don't have enough data (in comparison to the other calibers) to draw an accurate comparison."
Not enough data points to even draw a conclusion according to the guy who's "study" you're referencing.

Germ-- I mean Argentines always make great stuff.

The study I trust concluded that one-shot incapacitation is effectively impossible and even perps hit with 45 needed a follow-up.

They do tho. Their 1911 and Hi-Power clones are nice too. They're never going to win points on fit and finish, but they're always well made, reliable, and reasonably accurate for combat.

What's wrong with shooting cans off a fence post, and why would anyone not use .22lr for this noble purpose?

This.

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Attached: Lehigh-XP.jpg (600x524, 28K)

>using FMJ .380
>meme shit FMJ to boot
Enjoy getting ripped off, overpenetrating through five civilians shooting a bad guy, and getting sued out of your life savings.

Both rounds reached ideal penetration requirements in calibrated ballistic gelatin with significant wound cavities compared to both conventional JHP and FMJ bullets.

youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw
youtube.com/watch?v=J7_C6kNfjiA

>spot the guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw

thought about getting the bersa thunder extended mag myself, seems like a great gun

people who bitch about the caliber have to realize that people use to carry .32 acp. unless you're going to have a shootout with police, i think 380 is a great choice, just have to watch ammo prices

Yes. Pocket pistols are fun.

I don't see any point in them anymore versus 9mm. Pocket 9s these days are small and light to the point where they're just as concealable as a .380. And while a modern defensive .380 load may be adequate, 9mm is cheaper, more common, and offers better barrier penetration.

Some really prefer the Single/double of these, the full metal frame, and for sure the looks cause they blow pocket 9's out of the water

It's an alright gun for the price, but its not fantastic.

there is now a double stack series of bersa thunders called the thunder plus

in some countries people aren't allowed to have guns chambered in military calibers like 9mm

That leighton ammo doesn't do shit in actual flesh. It was designed to only perform properly in ballistic gel. It's only slightly better than RIP ammo in terms of memeliness

late but
I was thinking about a ppk for shits and giggles, how's it better? Sell me on it

Dang 380 is more effective then .44 mag, guess i need to sell my .44, .45 and 9.

So Glock 42, what are opinions about it

Nice blogpost, Dan.

It's almost the same size as a 43. If you really want a .380, then it's ok I guess, but might as well go 9mm at that point IMO. Now, I actually want a glock 25, despite it being the same size as a 19. I guess it's only because we can't have one in america.

Anyone wanting a good .380 should look at Beretta 84/85/86 or browning BDAs.

I got a one shot stop in my self defense shoot. (granted I hit his heart with a 9mm JHP)

The Bersa is comfortable and too whippy for a .380. They're reliable and fairly accurate. The PPK is definitely cooler looking and they tend to have a nicer fit and finish, but they're not as comfortable and somewhat unpleasant to shoot; not to mention twice the cost of the Bersa.

*not too whippy

>Ballistic gel tests don't count
????

Are you fucking shitting me? They're the best testing methodology we have.

>not the meat test with high tech fleece bullet stop with oranges to simulate lungs.

Tell us ALL ABOUT how great ballistic gel is.

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i really like my 2x ruger lc380s

both have galloway triggers :)

You'll probably actually carry it unlike your 55 round glock 19 so yes

Are those fucking Philip head bits?

How else do you tell someone to screw themselves

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>325
too much, I wouldn't bother for more than 250. They handle 380 recoil like a .22 though. They're just cheap feeling pistols with some QC issues. I like the trigger and weight but I wouldn't buy another.

Used Bersas can be had for about 200. I just put 325 out there because that's the highest price I have seen one at. The gunstore by me has outrageous prices on new guns. The used guns there I don't bother with. I only go to this store for ammo and targets.

Bersas have a break-in of 250 rounds and/or a dremel to the feed ramp. A used pistol with low rounds is rarely a worse choice. The most absurd pricing I've seen is $525 on a used ISSC 22lr, because "It's a Glawk clone and nobody else has one." The things are 210 brand new but get low import amounts on account of them being shit. The most expensive Bersa I've seen is $650. Some fudd was trying to sell his used model with 10 magazines at a "super bargain rate!" There are just too many new pistols coming out around 300 for me not consider another Bersa that isn't a Pro or TP. That new S&W 380 is probably going to eat into their market even more.

They poke holes in people, obviously 9mm and up are better, but a handful of .380 rounds are better than a quite a few 9mm in terms of performance. Where it will let you down is the cost per round, 9mm being standard for basically every military and police department in the world and the most common civilian round in the US makes it disproportionately cheap.
luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
In fact there is almost no difference in penetration and expansion between Hornady critical defense for .380 and 9mm. Obviously 9mm has some more capable rounds than that, but it shows that .380 still has excellent potential

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>spot the other tard who doesn't know what he's talking about
The lehigh bullets certainly do work in actual blood/flesh in at least some velocity ranges. There are multiple video necropsies of animals out there showing their effect(ap2020 outdoors, the gun collective).

What kind of proof do you have that they "don't do shit in flesh"? been watching too much chopping bloc or something?
Zimzam is that you?!?!?
TBF gel testing can produce artifacts that are pretty misleading. If i had a nickel for every time a youtube ballistics expert has referred to temporary stretch cavity as "permanent wound cavity"

>sausages:

youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ4S-sUzNA&feature=youtu.be&t=4m34s

full30.com/video/20437495d624b6be7456f87e1d40312b

full30.com/video/83fafb8fccd9c918aa476a9c96b86cce

Those look like they'd be fine if the notches didn't get coated in copper too.l

shot and handled several (argie fag here).
I dont like DA/SA pistols, so i find the trigger shit in all cases. Is a decent pistol all around if you are into that kind of pistols.
I´d get the TPR model which is aesthetically more pleasing otherwise same gun. or even the "match" model, which comes with 4 magazines and extended slide if you are into that...

Quality is normal any problem you can use the warranty. Its a range gun period. BTW i have a 380cc and a 223 (all steel 80s SA 22) from bersa, which are good. The 22 is picky with amo the 380 has been flawless, finish tends to wear off quickly when carrying, and bluing is really rust prone.

He's not wrong though, are you a buttmad soi goi?

>as we can see, the Lehigh slugs... broke the ribs, went through the pork chop..... pulverized the orange lung tissue, and were stopped by the high tech fleece backstop
I'm starting to think the only good ballistics tests are on real people.

that's some lame ass baiting newfriend

I picked up a .32acp for carry. It's noticeably smaller, thinner, and lighter than a 380. Bullet diameter is only a little bit under 1mm smaller, has a muzzle velocity around 900 to 1k fps. Both have trouble with hollowpoints so I only buy FMJ for my 32 unless I read the box wrong. I've thought about getting a 380 instead, 32's usually only come in at 70ish grains in weight I don't think they will retain velocity very well over a distance. I really feel like the major difference in how a 380 and a 32 gun is the 380 will probably actually have sights on it, 32's tend to be ultra compact and the sights are nearly non-existent nubs.
I like my 32 but it feels kind of inadequacy compared to my 40cal pistol with 200 grain bullets I just can't see such light weight projectiles working as well even if they were the same speed. Maybe that's just me I get the impression big heavy bullets work better than small lighter ones if I'm going to try to destroy something, but once you get down to the level of 32acp sized projectiles it just feels like nit picking ballistic differences after a point since there are really negligible differences in size/penetration with some bullets and shot placement is what's probably going to matter a lot more. When you get up to 9x19 to 45acp or 40s&w I think those negligible differences matter more since there are different bullet weights, sizes, and speeds than just pocket pistol cals like 32 or 380 that have a lot of performance limits due to the pistols being so small being designed as sub compacts with short barrel lengths and not really +p capable.
.32 is probably a bit better for a deep conceal kind of thing people call it. If you want sort of a niche thing like that it's probably alright. I likely would consider running as a better option if I had to use it more than a dozen feet away though.
380 is a lot easier to find on shelfs too if you don't buy online.

>Both have trouble with hollowpoints
The tl;dr on Paul Harrell's presentation on .380 defensive ammo is that the Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoints were the only ones that worked acceptably well.

380's have just always had the same problems HP rounds have had for decades.
Personally I feel that HP rounds are intended to be ineffective and cruel from the start with a better chance of maiming, except bullets are generally lethal enough even if you try to make them ineffective that they still have a good chance at killing.

If you want an expanding round I don't see why you wouldn't bother just going with a bigger diameter bullet to begin with. As far as hitting something vital I don't really feel like that tiny 1-2mm difference is really going to be the straw that breaks the camels back about that hitting or missing. Besides, most HP rounds can't even penetrate through something vital so I wouldn't count on them hitting something vital to begin with and that extra expansion is kind of pointless.

>why make bullet X expand so it's as big as bullet Y when you could just shoot bullet Y in the first place which has lower capacity, higher recoil, and may not even be a possibility. EX bullets expanding to .60" or bigger
>most HP rounds can't even penetrate through something vital so I wouldn't count on them hitting something vital to begin with and that extra expansion is kind of pointless.
>implying RN bullets don't make sub caliber holes
Your shit is six kinds of retarded.

>choosing bullets i think are so ineffective i need as many as possible
yeah sure I'm the retard here lol

Having the option of more capacity doesn't mean you have to use those rounds. Are you brain damaged or something?

So what your options are based off capacity. I'm not going to get lectured on how I'm stupid for picking a marginally better performing round because you want a few rounds extra that you know are not going to get used. If you're not going to use them then the extra capacity is a moot point.

Is it worth getting a glock 42 or should I just get a 43 instead? Or save up for a sig 365?

>HP rounds are intended to be ineffective and cruel

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I have the ultra compact version. It's good. Never has given me an issue. With that said, I don't like it. Quality is good. Reliability is great. I just don't like it for some reason, so I replaced it as my IWB carry gun with a CZ P01.

Holy shit user, you need to get yourself tested. You completely missed the point of the post, that is to say that all the shit you said about HPs is demonstrably wrong. Particularly the part about them not even being able to reach vitals.

If your .45 acp ball round disrupts the same tissue as an expanding 9mm/.40 round then the 9mm/.40 will do more damage as it will have expanded to a wider diameter than the .45. Many calibers offer expanding rounds that penetrate adequately and expand to greater than .5" which is the federal limit in bore diameter for handguns. The point about capacity is a side point at best and your suggestion that a higher capacity handgun with expanding rounds is giving up bullet performance for capacity when compared to a non expanding lower capacity firearm of higher caliber is ridiculous.

They're designed to not penetrate. Bullets do damage through penetration. They're also designed to fragment so people that don't bleed out get to walk around with shreds of jacket shrapnel in them. They work if you want something to bleed to death, I really doubt anything is going to bleed to death faster through a tiny non expanded entry hole (more likely to clot) and not an exit wound that's going to be bigger than the entrance wound anyway.

I didn't say they wouldn't reach vitals, I said they're not going to likely penetrate them fully through to the other side.

You can call it ridiculous if you want. I'm not going to wrangle tards like their cats that have a stupid opinion like a 9x19 bullet being as effective as a .40S&W. The 40 bullet has better performance in every metric except capacity, if it performs better than that means you're less likely to need more capacity to begin with if the first couple doesn't work. The entrance hole in an expanding bullet is going to be the same as the non-expanded one, with a smaller wound track. Bullets don't always go straight through targets I'd rather have a FMJ or semi wad cutter that'll bounce from someones collar bone and come out their knee and maybe hit something vital doing that, than a round that might not expand and likely fragment if it does just to make their life more miserable on the off chance they don't bleed to death.
Besides with expanding rounds the further you are back it effects expansion and penetration depth, it can be consistent at certain ranges but there gets to be inconsistent ways it behaves standing at different distances from what you're trying to hit. I'm not saying they're not lethal since they'll break cinderblocks and nothing anybody is made out of is tougher than that, I just don't believe the claims that they're not intended to be less lethal than other alternatives especially if they don't die and their recovery is more painful, that's just cruelty.

>muttering about .40 vs 9mm
What? that's clearly not what im talking about
>The entrance hole in an expanding bullet is going to be the same as the non-expanded one
Sooooooo? lemme guess, you're one of those special kinds of tards that thinks bleeding is largely limited by the size of the entrance wound? ever heard of internal fucking bleeding? maybe try taking an A&P class sometime dude.
>with a smaller wound track
No. It'll have a wider wound track but instead of sailing clean through the person with enough energy retained to shoot partially through a second person it'll stop in their back fat, clothing, or maybe the opposite side of their ribs.

Protip: none of those things contain organs or blood vessels.
>Bullets don't always go straight through targets I'd rather have a FMJ or semi wad cutter that'll bounce from someones collar bone and come out their knee and maybe hit something vital doing that
The fuckity fuck? this shit doesn't even deserve a response
>a round that might not expand and likely fragment
Maybe to the first, absolutely not to the second. Modern bonded/copper expanding rounds are less likely to fragment than FMJ at typical operating velocities. The FMJ is made up of softer materials and is more likely to shed it's jacket as it's a separate piece of metal.
>Besides with expanding rounds the further you are back it effects expansion and penetration depth
The fuck? this isn't a problem inside of any reasonable defensive distance. You'd literally have to be hundreds of feet away to have issues with most loadings
>I just don't believe the claims that they're not intended to be less lethal than other alternatives
Good, because they aren't. They're meant to maximize damage and minimize risk to bystanders.

Holy fuck you've got to be one of the biggest tards i've talked to in a long fucking time. Please go read a fucking book or something on the subject of terminal ballistics or just keep your absurdly ignorant opinions to yourself.

I brought up 9vs.40 because that's pretty much the quintessential argument of a typically better performing bullet vs capacity that is nearly almost the same but gives up a round or two.
I don't think bleeding is limited, I think it's a limited space for the blood to get out and it's going to help clot the internal stuff a lot faster, internal bleeding isn't going to push out as much blood if there is a limit to how much can come out you're talking a hole sized wound vs a nick from expansion the holes going to bleed like crazy a nick cut isn't, most of that expansion is a nick.
I already knew you were going to argue about smaller wound track I meant shorter, A shorter thicker wound track is going to be smaller than a long one and if you don't hit anything vital a shorter thicker wound track isn't as likely to disable anything.
If you're going to argue that a bullet smashing a rib vs one that stops on it isn't as effective that's one of the major reason I'd trust a non hollow point more, if it's more likely to break a support structure like a bone I think that's way more effective than putting a hole into a thing that can keep moving, that's like getting your leg cut vs breaking the bone there. I don't feel hollow points are physically going to cause as much damage that's as lasting like that.

>The fuckity fuck? this shit doesn't even deserve a response
Alright I already know you have zero training in treating a gun shot wound just from this. I'm not basis my opinion off of ballistics gelatin, some of it is off my training in treating a bullet wound and which types are more difficult for them to 1. physiologically be able to do something without a pain response 2. how difficult it is to stabilize.
Yeah okay modern, newer is better let's ignore that modern ones still do that, not every bullet on the market is the same they're not all modern in technical capacity, watch a view videos where they recover the bullet after and weight what got retained.

But what about our friend, the 9mm Makarov?

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Honestly I can't believe I'm bother to converse with an ignorant moron on this subject.
If you're going to argue there isn't a difference in how hollow point expansion works in FBI specific defensive ranges you haven't got a fucking clue about how hollowpoints work.
You're going to sit there and tell me they're meant to maximize damage from the size of the bullet and then argue that a bigger bullet isn't better because it's already expanding to be smaller than another one, you're a fucking brainless cretin.

What about Makarovs in .380?

CYKA

If you like it and shoot it well, sure.

Ballistically not much of an improvement. Still usable if someone likes it, but there's a lack of variety in handgun options (for obvious reasons).

Character limits are lame. Anyway I'm not shitting on hollowpoints I still buy the things. Usually on accident. When I buy them on purpose they're usually rated for game animals that are 300-500+ pounds and I don't have any lingering questions in the back of my head if they're going to be effective on a person like I would with a 9x19.

>I don't think bleeding is limited
>I think it's a limited space for the blood to get out and it's going to help clot the internal stuff a lot faster, internal bleeding isn't going to push out as much blood if there is a limit to how much can come out
Holy fuck m8. You just contradicted yourself. Do yourself a favor and do a bit of research for fucks sake.

They call it the thoracic CAVITY for a reason. They bleed into the cavity and what comes out the hole is just what happens to leak out. That's why applying direct pressure to a GSW to the chest does absolutely shit if it hits anything important. The chest cavity will just fill with blood, and it has plenty enough space for you to die before there'es any pressure or "help" forming clots.
> I meant shorter, A shorter thicker wound track is going to be smaller than a long one and if you don't hit anything vital a shorter thicker wound track isn't as likely to disable anything.
Reread my post you fucking mong. plenty of JHPs offer enough penetration to go almost if not entirely through somebody. It doesnt fucking matter that a FMJ round can get 30" of penetration and a jhp only gets 17" because people don't have 30" of tissue between you and their vitals. It's just wasted energy that allows the bullet to keep going after it goes through somebody.
>inane ramblings about how JHPs wont break bones but FMJ will
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about do you?
>I'm not basis my opinion off of ballistics gelatin, some of it is off my training in treating a bullet wound and which types are more difficult for them to
You expect me to believe that when you type like a literal retard and express retarded opinions that display a completel lack of understand of even basics of anatomy, physiology, and traumatic injuries?

Fucking prove it.

>a completel lack of understand of even basics of
complete lack of understanding of even the basics of*

I think im done at this point, you're way to dumb and opinionated to be helped in any meaningful way.

My gram gram can only handle 380 auto and below so that's what she has to use

Tri-wing, I think. For when you have to shoot off those annoying security screws that nintendo used to use.

>I think im done at this point, you're way to dumb and opinionated to be helped in any meaningful way.
Sorry I couldn't help you prep the bull. Don't forget to give him the key to your chastity cage though.

Jesus I left with your stupid post and came back to a wall of manifest autism. Get yourself a trip code so I can block you.

But but its weak and ineffective blah blah blah\
Funny thing about faggots who claim it's shit for self defense, none of them ever a

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I hate reading threads too

The OP is a fucking troll and look at Jow Forums taking thead bait as fast as it can. Its no different than when some retard trys to claim mm is as good or better than .45ACP.

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>Tips fedora
Jow Forumsomrade Willie

>it cracks
that has been fixed a long time ago, and the inox version never had that issue to begin with.

Hold up, please tell me who makes a high power clone? I didn't know such a thing exists.

>xtreme penetrator

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>Thunder Plus .380

As long as you can accurately shoot it yes.

Yes. I've killed enough animals with it to come to that conclusion. I don't care what the internet """"gun community"""" has to say about it.