What do you think of the Marine Corps' decision?

Source please.

They're doing exactly what the Germans did during WW2 with the STG44 by introducing it as the MP44.

>Pic mounted bayonet mounts are now a thing again

SEMPER FIDELIS INTENSIFIES

>Infantry wanting new rifles
>not a reason
Oh, you’re legit retarded; move along.

To quote my noguns coworker
>dude did you hear the marines are getting a new gun
>comes in semi and full auto I think
>apparently it's like super dangerous too
>like i heard right now only a handful of like REALLY well trained Marines are trusted with it
>it's basically over for Russia

People who actually see assloads of combat say they want it, it's doing something right.

Objectively better than old configuration. Of course fudds go "muh beltfed" and "muh heatings" while Marines basically ran the test on that shit

>Need to replace worn out as fuck weapons
>Pentagon says no, we're too busy wasting money on office politics
>"WE NEED A NEW RIFLE ALTOGETHER BECAUSE LIST OF REASONS THAT MAKE SENSE TO DESK JOCKEYS THAT MIGHT AS WELL BE NOGUNS CIVILIANS"
>Oh, okay!

Empirically worse (and more expensive) than SOCOM's URG-1.

>bayonet adapter
Aww ye boi. All is forgiven.

DI-fats will never stop being assblasted over the Marines going for pistons, will they?

All soldiers in the history of forever want full-auto rifles
The fucking brits ditched their own FAL's in favor of captured Argentine ones because the argentine ones were full auto

Doesn't mean they're actually necessary

they're living up to the crayon muncher meme.

I doubt anyone who has ever been in a gunfight wishes they had LESS belt fed daka on tap.

>he fell for the HK marketing meme

Putting a piston on an AR is about as helpful as replacing the front sight with a dildo

Heavier and less accurate than DI with no benefit

This, when I was in, our A4s were just beat to shit but the administration's main concern was more trannies in the Corps as opposed to new rifles so...

More dakka is always necessary.

Repeal the NFA.

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>tapco foregrip
Why is the military obsessed with these dongles? I assume because they're cheap and they work.

>Everyone feels that they need full auto capability
>I clearly know more than any of them because I play vidya

Except the armys m4s are already full auto, can't speak for Marines, but also have a burst trigger group is horrendous trying to shoot accurately with. 3lb, 6lb, then 9lb trigger pull. The full auto function on an infantry rifle is a most definite need. Especially in the army where we, for some reason still have 249s, which suck cock

>249s, which suck cock
Don't they output like two thirds of the fireteam's firepower?

When they aren't fucking jamming every other burst. They need to be replaced badly. Two biggest problems, the useless magwell, and the constant refurbishing of a stamped gun that has been in service for almost 30 years

The army doesn't eat crayons, Marines made the A2 and on burst only because marines are literally retarded and it was the best way too keep them from wasting Uncle Sam's ammo

Would a new beltfed 5.56 LMG be a worthy project, then?

>DIfags this salty
DI is the ultimate meme operating system, no machine guns use it and the squad/platoon MG MUST be reliable. If DI was reliable there would be MG's that use it.

Long stroke piston dominates MG's as it's the most reliable system, some MG's do use short stroke piston, but none use DI. Direct Impingement is a complete failure, it fails time and time again, in any sort of adverse condition or rapid fire it fails, this has cost lives. The Marines are the most infantry focused branch, with every aspect of the Marines built around their success. The Army is a bureaucratic hellhole, Sig 320, UCP, Striker, the list goes on and on.

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Hurr Durr muhrines shoot too much so dey have Dem burst. Yeah no bud. Burst came around when the oicw program way of thinking was popular, when the 'future' of combat was going to be decided by statistics. If grunt can shoot 3 rounds relatively quickly he statistically speaking has greater hit percentage under combat stress conditions then in full auto or single shot. Also this was moved forward by bean counters who thought it would save on ammo expenditure. Basically two unfounded unsupported reasons and now everything is going back to full auto because when you need it, you need it and there is no substitute

>oh it costs too much money *proceeds to order another F-35*
>ohhh it doesn't improve on the performance of the old gun by an arbitrary and vaguely defined 200%
>ooohhhh the existing ancient beat up clunkers still go bang at least 50% of the time, good enough!
>OOOHHHH INFANTRY AND SMALL ARMS DON'T WIN WARS, WHO CARES?
And so on.

I thought they were only replacing the m249s with this- they're replacing all the m16s/m4s with it too?

They could just buy the MG4 then, I guess. It would look nice next to the M27.

No. Be a waste to invest on a whole new 5.56 gun when the LSAT is 5 years out at most.

Marines shoot targets at 500M with the A2/4 for fucking decades, the Army needs to go back to the old style rifle qual.
>Marines are retarded
>Army burns 350,000 rounds per causality
The ARMY requested that for that exact reason, it's Colt that put their retarded burst cam in, and everyone knows what happens when the Army and Colt get together.

Juice ain't worth the squeeze until causeless or polymer cased ammo tech makes a breakthrough in reliability. 1000 rounds of linked 5.56mm is shitty as fuck to carry. The Marines new way of thinking, although tailored to the middle East conflicts of now is actually making sense. Every dude with 10 or 12 mags placing more accurate fire is same or better then one dude placing a shit ton of fire but less accurately and carrying way more weight.

>Sig 320, UCP, Striker
>7.62x51 before that, and the .30-06 before that (over .276 and .280)
This.
Who can seriously believe what the Army says? They have not a fucking clue despite having decades of war experience.

Theres literally nothing wrong with it, the jamming "problem" is nonexistent and only POG's like you want to claim otherwise because you don't maintain your gun in the down time. I had literally no issues with my machinegunner throwing down lead he never had stoppages

They both collectively need to teach longer shooting. But also you random statistics on how many rounds needed to kill one dude is a dumb ass way to justify it. Mortars and crew served machine guns do most of the effective killing in the infantry fight. Combined arms warfare uses the dilemma principal to be effective

Watch the LSAT and CT cartridges get ignored AGAIN just like the zero results gained from the SPIW and OICW programs. Got something nice out of a side project like the XM25? Bureaucratic boondoggle and memory holed. Time to build another billion dollar patrol boat that doesn't do dick to any surface threat. FUCK.

The LSAT is always 5 years out at most.

They recently announced that they were replacing all their rifles. It's been predicted for a while that the initial move was just to get the foot in the door so that they could order a full set of new rifles instead of a legit attempt to supplement the M249 as was claimed.

Much as I'd like to see the LSAT succeed, every time I've talked about I've ended the discussion with "But of course the Army will cancel it just before it bears fruit."

I don't see an issue with it to be honest. I think most of the complaints from here are mad armchair operators

Polymer cased ammo will eventually be gtg and will revolutionize the arms industry as a whole. It's the logical next evolution in firearm tech. Just need the Chinese to say they are working on it and the idiots in our R&D will prioritize it and it will be so.

Actually I retract that. I don't think it was that great of an idea, although I don't think it's pants on head retarded. If it were up to me I would have just had all their M4s free floated and replaced the saw. Maybe knights lamg? Idk but the saw is getting a little antiquated IMO and something like the lamg allows the gun to be easily fired from the shoulder

What exactly are they waiting for? The LSAT has been in development since 2003 and the M249s have been falling to bits for years.

If telescoped ammo is 40% lighter than regular brass ammo, does that mean we could have 7.62mm MMGs at the fireteam level or will we just use 5.56 and carry more of it?

Figure out which one is stupider, and that's probably the one we'll do.

Hahahaha okay guy, immediately outed yourself as a basement oper8tor. or a coolaid drinking, ranger-school-is-the-only-school, retard that believes everything the military tells you. Believing the m249 just needs proper maintenance and doesn't have massive design flaws and isn't in need of replacement asap makes you one of the militaries biggest problems. I bet you believe in mass punishment and have a TSP too. Dumb fuck

Literally what is wrong with mass punishment?

>regressing to the M16A4, except now 2 pounds heavier
...and 2 MOA rather than 4.5 MOA.
...and able to handle as much fire as you're likely to be able to feed it outside of base.

It's a bit heavier than the current standard infantry rifle, but it's also a credible replacement for a designated marksman rifle or a squad automatic weapon, and more mechanically reliable. Infantry were burning out their M4s running ammo them like LMGs when they had it. Do you want to wag your fingers at them for being hard on gear, or give them a gun that supports their winning tactics?

This is trading up grandad's old pocket knife for a stainless steel multitool. Is it 100% win? No. Is it generally better? Oh hells yeah.

>have a TSP too

You got me senpai. Were you a four year E4? Life is easier when you have a budget and aren't a shitbag.

That explains what kind of leader you are right there.

Literally what is wrong with incentivizing a bunch of dumb teenagers to gang up and give each other secret beatings?

5 year E5 and still in actually. Bet you're a lifer faggot who fucks over Joe's and fellow leaders to make rank.

Not military but are you guys referring to Thrift Savings? I work in a different federal field and always want to hear different opinions on it.

Well, yeah. The only people who bitch about it are the shitbags who always got beat.

No, I'm in a unit where we promote from within instead of importing terminal faggots.

It's a generic 401k, but with lower fees.

So here's the real deal: there's hot 5.56 ammunition in the USMC labs that will go right through the increasingly-common Level IV plates at useful range, but it eats M4s from the inside. M27s can stand up to it.

One dude who is dumber than the collective stupidity, does dumb thing, punish every one for his actions. Everyone mad and beats individual. Individual keeps doing stupid stuff because 'fuck it' already not part of the group and enjoys getting the attention now. It can keep spiraling from there. If one shit bag keeps getting everyone fucked up they will eventually stop hating individual and start to hate leadership and will perform like shit for you

>semi AND full auto
Wew fucking lad

Mass punishment works when you only allow high-quality humans into service. They keep each other in check and each individual has the brainpower necessary to consider what the possible future repercussions of their actions will have on the rest of the team.

Filling the military with low quality people and subhumans who have no ability to think ahead more than a few steps means it will not work, ever. It is exactly the same as expecting a good gun to make up for the shortcomings of bad ammo.

I know this isn't the place for it, but if I'm making roughly 50k a year I should be putting down at least 8% right? Maybe 10%? My agency matches the first 5%. For me this is babby's first retirement account.

put as much as you are comfortable putting in. More now is more later. Always do at least your match%, that's free money

As much as you possibly can, I do 20% and the army matches up to 5%.

Few people save enough for their retirement.

Reasonable answers on a oriental mahjong and shitposting forum. Stop it.

Damn the NIJ for using an ass-backwards numbering convention. Level 3 stops rifle rounds but 3A doesn't, and the jump is pretty huge to boot.

If we have to make new plates that are better than Level IV but not quite deserving of a Level V classification (let's leave the military ratings out of this), how are they going to label it? Level IV+? IV-B? IV-2?

That's a fine barracks hypothesis, but empirically, M4A1s handle M855A1 better than the IAR does.

The alleged ~overmatch~ round firing tungsten at 3500fps is probably going to need a new rifle. Especially if the rumor about a new primer system is true.

>dosnt fall for HK memes
>most likely falls for sig and glock memes
>very likely a poor fag

>a Level V classification
A what now?

>or give them a gun that supports their winning tactics?

>4 year evaluation process before procurement begins
>appeals follow, delay procurement another 2-3 years
>procurement set to begin
>congressman gets his panties in a wad because the rifles aren't manufactured in his district, forces service to redo evaluation, sets back procurement 3-4 more years
>procurement finally begins 10 years later at significantly higher procurement and evaluation costs

oy vey

>credible replacement for a designated marksman rifle
No 5.56 is credibly replacing a 7.62 DMR. Maybe supplement it like the MK12 receivers did, but they were only ever a stopgap.
>more mechanically reliable.
Because of the Aberdeen test performed by people unfamiliar with the burst cam, who counted each incomplete burst as a stoppage? I dont think that's a trustworthy judge.
>Infantry were burning out their M4s running ammo them like LMGs when they had it.
They shouldn't be doing that, whether the gun can handle it or not.

The classic I'm better than everyone and I'm always right kinda dude. The 1960s called and want their leadership style back. Not being forward thinking and understanding your dudes so you can pull the most potential out of each individual is shitty leadership and goes back to the draft days model of leader. Giving dudes incentives and only punishing bad behavior on an individual basis makes dudes realize that if they perform well they will be rewarded, this motivating them to reach higher potentials. While also motivating the lower performers to not get left behind for fear of punishment. Stop being a lazy leader and get more involved at the lowest levels.

>They shouldn't be doing that, whether the gun can handle it or not.

Damn straight! 1 shot 1 kill!

It doesn't exist, but we can assume when it will be an incremental step up over the previous rating. "One shot of magnum rifle caliber with AP core"?

>AR's are a meme

What's wrong with a TSP? I've been socking money away since day one.
>not .mil but still fed gov

IV-A, just like II-A and III-A

>Because of the Aberdeen test performed by people unfamiliar with the burst cam, who counted each incomplete burst as a stoppage?
If it can confuse the average grunt into thinking something has went wrong then the fault is with the weapon, or in this specific case a really badly designed burst cam. If you think about it harder, how is the average trooper supposed to know what is the exact cause of his rifle failing to go bang-bang-bang during a fight?

>No 5.56 is credibly replacing a 7.62 DMR
5.56 DMRs aren't a new thing.

>>Do you want to wag your fingers at them for being hard on gear, or give them a gun that supports their winning tactics?
>I want to wag my finger at them.
Sometimes you tactically need a high volume of fire to win, and what you've got is a standard infantry rifle. You know that old saw about how long plans last after contact with the enemy? It applies to rules about how gentle you should be with your equipment in combat as well.

There are can't-dos and there are oughtn't-dos, and when violating the oughtn't-dos keeps you alive and destroys the enemy, you can live with the shame.

I've been in the Norwegian army and while I can hate on alot of the decisions on hardware they've gone for, small arms usually been on point.(aka: HK for everything)

We replaced our squad level mg3s with minimis a few years ago, and they've been a joy. Way more reliable than I had heard, and doctrinewise our gunners just spray trenches and rooms when doing MOUT, while riflemen barely ever go full family, 15 months in Afghanistan in total, and I can't really think of any situation where I heard a 416 go cyclic.

(How the fuck it beat the mg4 I will never understand, but fuckit).

Anybody who says this is retarded is a no guns armchair general

Is that why every other branch is lining up to get rid of their squad automatic weapons?

>US Marines are just now getting into piston ARs and IARs
We’ve had both for 3 years now lmao do try to keep up faggots
Spoiler alert: They work.

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No, but running an M4 like a machine gun will naturally burn out the barrel and its grossly ineffective anyway. Hence why everyone is trained for single shots. If entire fire teams were magdumping their rifles, they're retards 100%.
The burst cam requires you to hold the trigger for the duration of the burst. The testers had not been trained on this and were tapping the trigger, which led to incomplete bursts that were marked as stoppages. This would be like blaming an AK for not shooting F/A because you dont realize theres a middle setting on the selector.

I've been at about 8% for a year now, I think I've got $12000 saved up in 2 years and 3 months.

>No, but running an M4 like a machine gun will naturally burn out the barrel and its grossly ineffective anyway. Hence why everyone is trained for single shots. If entire fire teams were magdumping their rifles, they're retards 100%.

>grossly ineffective
>team boys now deploying with drum mags in lieu of stanags
>grunts know better than sof

Back to your earlier comments about confusing levels, their new proposed system is to separate handgun and rifle threats:
nij.gov/Documents/nij-specification-of-threat-levels-and-ammunition-draft-for-public-comment.pdf

Level II is becoming HG1, Level IIIA is becoming HG2.
Level III+ that stops standard 5.56 ball is becoming RF1, armor that can stop M855 greentip (is this even a problem?!) is being formalized as RF2, Level IV is becoming RF3.

Still nothing above Level IV. But at least the names should be easier to understand if it's adopted.

SOF also wear JPCs and trainers, they have entirely different tasks and equipment requirements to grunts and doing something just because muh cool seal guy did it is boot mentality.

That's great for Norway, the brand new minimi's probably perform great, it's just that ours are not being replaced after decades, but "refurbished" with new parts when they brake completely. Also mout doctrine of spraying the room with rounds from an open bolt 20lb lmg isn't really how the US does things. There's these things called civilians and if you kill them there's investigations and people go to jail. As gay as it is. Usually I've used full auto to cover saw gunners correcting malfunctions, suppressing fixed positions, disabling light vehicles, and especially in turrets or air hatches when the Gunner is reloading and has an immediate threat close or the main gun goes down for some reason. It's more useful then people think but the school of thought and training full auto control just isn't something tought in most conventional units

>>grunts know better than sof
Bad mentality user, operators and grunts have wildly different missions and priorities. Just because some secret squirrel does it doesn't mean everyone on the line has to or should pick it up.

Neat. Going to miss the old roman numerals though.

>grunts know how to grunt better than sof
ftfy, what suits one doesn't always suit the other.

>wildly different mission
>using drum mag to shooty tooty for a long time is a super sekrit mission now