P90 vs MP7

>WRONG those are the rounds that go into them

Until they make a version of the MP7 in 5.7 or a version of the p90 in 4.6, it's the same thing retard.

P90 because it has bigger clips

HP 5.7 and AP 4.6 exist you dire cod babby

This. The MP7 is the better gun but the 5.7mm is the better cartridge. FN built exactly the wrong gun for the "PDW" concept- the P90 makes sense as an MP5 replacement, when they were looking for an Uzi or a vz. 61.

you mean LATE 1800's

what's the reasoning behind carrying a mp7 and an ar?
does ~two less inches really make that big of a difference?

And they're both garbage, totally against the design principle of the original round. Especially hp 5.7.

>And they're both garbage,
doesnt stop them from invalidating your point that the guns are intrinsically armor-defeating or not, rather than it being reliant on the round they fire

>the guns are intrinsically armor-defeating or not
They are, though. Even without using AP ammunition a round like the 5.7mm can go through barriers or soft body armor just by virtue of being pointy.

Yes it does. You can't make good HP ammo out of 5.7 and 4.6 is always going to be worse than 5.7 vs Kevlar, unless you make the shit out of depleted uranium or some shit.

The MP7 is incredibly quiet, less than and MP5SD, and can be carried in a thigh holster.

The MP7 is a true handgun replacement that PDWs should be.

P90 because I can actually buy a civilian version.

if you fire blanks out of a P90, do they still pierce armor?

If you stop posting on Jow Forums, are you still a pedantic faggot?

I know it’s correct but that mp7 silhouette looks off

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>The MP7 is a true handgun replacement that PDWs should be.
yeah it only weighs 666 kilos and has an overall size that makes it unable to fit into most duffel bags, let alone a pistol holster

PDWs are not a pistol replacement and never were meant to be; they're meant for low-risk positions like clerks and dentists on bases in "hostile" areas and fightin' mans tight spaces like tanks, ships, and aircraft where a whole M16 would get in the way (and in fact M4s and C8s still get in the way a little bit)

It's a pretty weird looking gun.

Can you fire anything other than 5.7mm out of a P90 or 4.6mm out of an MP7? No? Then the performance of those cartridges is obviously relevant to the design of their respective firearm. Unless you want to test the effectiveness of throwing them at people.

>
>two less inches really make that big of a difference?
Idk ask your wife

>Can you fire anything other than 5.7mm out of a P90
can you make 5.7 that isn't steel cored nor jacketed?

>Unless you want to test the effectiveness of throwing them at people.
a P90 is itself not armor piercing

I'm pretty sure if you launched a P90 at sufficient velocity it would pierce most body armor.

all want is to dress up with a p90 and get smashed on binding lager so i can play pretend stargate

youtube.com/watch?v=t4sBeuKyV6E

I disagree, a P90 is mostly plastic on the outside and would probably break and in doing so slow down enough that the metal bits inside would no longer be travelling fast enough to penetrate. furthermore, those metal parts are mostly oddly shaped, not sharp, and pinned together in various ways. it would deform a lot and transfer a lot of kinetic energy with decent efficiency, but probably not even go through kevlar unless you did something silly like launch it so fast it burst into flame and became a jet of hypersonic molten plastic or something (at which point it has long since ceased to be a P90)

>all want is to dress up with a p90 and get smashed in my boypussy
ftfy

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>(at which point it has long since ceased to be a P90)
What is a P90 really?

Is that a sawed off m79?

If you launched it at very high velocity and managed to stabilize it somehow I think the barrel would detach on impact and act as a penetrator.

depends on the angle it hits and what kind of muzzle device it has fitted, really

naw the triple rail version is atlantis faggotry
get one with the retarded original "optical" sight or no dressup

and no dressup means no smashing the boypucci

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>implying i'm not a wizard
your cuck labels have no power here

I haven't used either, but I'm inclined to believe the P90 has better ballistics and a more appropriate profile for its role. I know 5.7 is proven versus body armor but know very little about 4.6. I don't even know if there are 4.6 pistols that HK shills with the cartridge. If anybody knows good sources for that information please share.

I think HK has largely given up on 4.6

Assmad FN rep detected.

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MP5

>given up on 4.6
Kek you guys really don't know shit do you? The MP7 is one of HK's top sellers fucking retards.

name even one (1) other gun that fires it

again, a round and a gun are not the same thing

it actually IS a good pistol replacement if you're not intent on concealing your shit, and I don't think anyone mil is going to be worried about THAT shit. Think about it. You got a rifle that will defeat level IIIA body armor, then you got an MP-7 you can LITERALLY DRAW to fire full auto bursts into the chests of nearby assailants... which will defeat level IIIA body armor. I think it COULD be used as a pistol replacement there.

tone it down Timmy, it's one reply

guys, guys, guys, we're approaching it all WRONG, we're not looking to PEN the armor necessarily, we're looking to DEFEAT the armor. Now, hear me out, because I have a theory on how an MP-7 or a P-90 could defeat even level 4 body armor without so much as penetrating. If we just find a way to propel the Mp-7 or P90 at sufficient velocity toward the armor wearing subject, it would on impact, transfer a great enough amount of energy into the armor that even absent penetration, the subject would experience such harsh organ damage as to negate the protective effect of the armor, thus killing the subject.

>a round and a gun are not the same thing
And they continue to sell both the gun and the round.

I honestly don't know what else they would chamber in 4.7mm. The MP7 is small enough to holster as one of its primary gimmicks and large enough to use as a full-size submachinegun, so a handgun or a larger long gun in the caliber both seem pretty superfluous. Although I'm a little surprised they've never attempted a "UMP-47" in spite of that.

way to just rephrase my post in a dumber way. have you ever had an original thought? ever?

But then the question remains: is the MP7 or the P90 better at defeating body armor?

I just read the wiki on 4.6x30. It was much easier than trying to get facts out of you. Basically NATO called it shit and went with 5.7.

P90.

>no stargate previous to this post
I'm disappointed in you Jow Forums

why would HK make something to compete with it? They already make those MP5s, UMPs, G36s, they don't really enter the PDW market anymore than the MP7 and the MP5K as far as I know, but really why bother designing another gun in 4.6 when it's such a niche round? They don't really market it on mass, they CAN'T really market it on mass here, they can't just redesign it and there was some niggertry about 5.7 that suggests that even if they DID market it on mass here, the chief selling point would be negated like when they banned the sale of the steel core ammo for the PS90, negating its selling point of being able to pen soft armor.

Even WORSE is that they would have to send some engineers over here to design the weapons or some convoluted bullshit to circumvent german weapon of war laws, and they'd STILL have to deviate from the god tier aesthetic that makes the MP7 viable.

NATO didn't go with anything, because it turns out nobody wants to spend the money to buy state of the art Rainbow Six guns for truck drivers.

Their only practical applications are in automatic, as is the doctrine of Personal Defense Weapons (PDWs). I doubt any of you have even shot one, let alone both, so would be totally unqualified for an anecdotal objective opinion on either.

I suspect that the MP7 would, being that it's smaller size and more filled out form, with less empty space inside it seems to me like it might be more dense, which means it's going to transfer MORE energy to LESS area, which is what you make a bullet do when you want better penetration.

I mean its great and I own one, but it is a heavy for its caliber, no last round bolt hold open having awkward handling gun. And have you tried to do mag changes?

go home cunt. clips only exist in old school guns. The word you are looking for is magazine

Other than funzies, I still can't understand why anyone would own a "submachine gun" in semi-automatic. That weight would probably be a good thing in its intended role. Just look at SAS motherfuckers with a baton maglite attached to the top.

>they don't really enter the PDW market anymore than the MP7
I would argue that "PDW" is basically a dead meme at this point and that both the MP7 and the P90 are just sold to be submachineguns that happen to be able to penetrate body armor. There are literally no customers for either gun buying them as a personal defense gun, it's all SWAT teams and special operations units looking for an upgrade from the MP5.

HK knows this, because if they actually saw the MP7 as its own thing instead of a submachinegun then they'd be making an MP5 or UMP variant in the same caliber.

You took the bait, kiddo.
Not that it was any good...

MP7 because grenade launcher

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Way to cover your ignorance. Go back to wikipedia for your gun knowledge.

Red-hot rebar shot from a crossbow has superior armor penetration to 4.6x30mm.

That was my first post in this thread, newfag.

really contributed didn't ya derp.

And I wouldn't contest that assessment. It's more or less what I imagine to be the case.

Where do I get an MP7?

but inferior to .357

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>TheClearWinnerHere.jpg

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prop gun

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i always forget how bad HL2 actually looked

Fallout 3/NV tier case of mods all being better than the base game

It was pretty damn good for 2004, you might just remember being impressed by it at the time even though it's not much through a modern lens.

Late, but trying to prevent a derailment is always okay behavior.

I think it's just because it looks bad in stills because where the game shone was in facial animation and rendering effects

also for some reason everyone takes screenshots of the coast, where the textures are all stretched and the lighting is really flat. the only good looking part of the coast section was the big bridge

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Source engine was a great leap, but I never got the appeal of Half Life. The most impressive thing to me was moving geometry shooting a barrel down a hill in CS:Source.

as shooters go, HL and HL2 made a lot of TECCNOLOGY advancements but end up being kinda meh

the real draw is the engine, not the game. the modding scene for those two was the apex of human development imo

P90 cause we still use it to cap hosts in the future.

vz. 61 ofc

MP7 because SEALs use them

Half-Life and Half-Life 2 pretty much paved the way for the FPS gaming as a whole. Most of it was the engine, and the mods. Counter-Strike was the definitive modern multiplayer FPS. Back in 1998 there was nothing even remotely comparable. I remember playing back in first Alpha and thinking damn, this is what I've been waiting for. Not only was it modern, but it was fun. The maps were huge, the gameplay was dynamic. Now every game is so (((balanced))) they aren't fun. Every FPS caters to the run and gun lone wolf. There's no longer any strategy.

The p90 is probably more comfy

Id argue the opposite desu. I think that in the next few years, and even now, the line separating SMG, Short carbine/SBR and the few PDWs that are still around will get super muddy, and by the end of it I think they'll all be called PDW as an umbrella. Like, in actual practical terms, what separates an MP7, a Sig Rattler and that Swedish Sabot-shooting Uzi? One might be a PDW, one a carbine and one an SMG, but they're all super compact automatics firing high-velocity ammunition capable of defeating armor and will be used in the same role.

Yes

P90 has better boolit, better capacity, better ROF
However, MP7 has non-retarded reload and is more compact, probably easier to handle overall

I thought both are developed in an arms race in creating a compact weapon that can penetrate body armor....

OP's pic has the mp7 Taller and Longer than the P90.

>More Compact
C'mon Son!

Make the p90 a roller-delay in 10mm or 9mm Dillon. Give it bullets with tungsten penetrators. The magazine would be fatter, but it should hold 36 rounds or so.

The P90 has a 50 round magazine, no matter what. The MP7 has a 20 round magazine if you want it to be compact and a 40 round magazine that juts out like crazy.

9mm AP sucks noodles.

Are you pretending to be retarded? That’s with the stock fully extended and an extendo.

Sub-caliber penetrator. The Russians fell for the overpressure superlight 9mm meme, with a subcaliber-penetrator, copper jacket, and plastic filler. I’d use the 9mm Dillon instead, and use standard lead, so it has adequate effects in unarmored targets.

>C'mon Son!

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That screenshot isn't even on highest settings and is also prior to engine updates for improved graphical fidelity. Go play on a 2004 build right now and it will look substantially better.

Pic related is from the 2004 build (evident by the old vortigaunt skin), it looks much better than anything released in 2004 by a considerable margin.

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>tfw no civilian mp7
WWWHHHHYYYYYYYYY

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