are there advantages to using rifle grenades over say an M203? why do the french still use them?
Are there advantages to using rifle grenades over say an M203? why do the french still use them?
Jose Brown
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Logan Lewis
Because the french are fucking retards
William Moore
>more range
>potentially more boom
>everyone in the squad can carry one without having to bother with a dedicated system.
I'ts a viable alternative.
Blake Gutierrez
>Nothing on the rifle except when about to fire the grenade
>Anyone is a grenadier
>Heavier Payload
>Longer Range
>Can actually use HEAT because its radius isn't limited by launcher caliber
>inb4 have to use blanks/shut of the gas system
Hasn't been a thing for a long time. Bullet trap and shoot through rifle grenades make that irrelevant.
Michael Green
That's a tactical choice, you either have one dude stop firing and make boom boom but anyone can do that, or you have a dedicated dude that can immediately resume firing.
Anthony Diaz
Why would they not be able to immediately resume firing?
Jaxon Mitchell
It's because the French refuse to use/try to delay the introduction of American weapons.
Dylan Martinez
not everyone is a grenadier but can be, only some get these issued
and range is certainly not longer, normal 40mm grenades have almost double maximum range with better sights for that job
also the AT ability is quite limited to anti-materiel use from low piercing ability
still, a really good system to have on hand in conventional war
Ryan Morales
Because they cant fit a GL onto LeFAMAS.
Jack Wright
>and range is certainly not longer, normal 40mm grenades have almost double maximum range with better sights for that job
Effective firing range for the M320 is 150m for point targets out to about 350 for area targets, and carrying 32g of payload.
As an accessible and more well known example, the APAV40 carries 80g of payload (2.5x) and engages point targets out to 100m and area targets out to 300-320ish.
More esoterically, the M60 Yugo Antipersonnel rifle grenade carried 64-67g (~2x) the payload and was accurate for area targets out to 400m. If you want to look into it, keep in mind there is also a Yugo M60 AT rifle grenade and not all sources differentiate the two.
A rifle grenade sized down to the equivalent of a 40×46mm can easily out range UGLs.
>the AT ability is quite limited to anti-materiel use from low piercing ability
I'd agree with this though. 200mm RHA is nothing for tanks, but its still useful against lighter vehicles.
>not everyone is a grenadier but can be, only some get these issued
Arguably this is just a matter of implementation and it doesn't have to be implemented this way. But yes this is correct. But even with this being the case, if it is needed you can distribute them to everyone in the squad if you need multiple grenadiers at once. You cannot split a UGL.
Caleb Watson
>why do the french still use them?
also gay dildo
Ryan Lewis
>french infantry carry rifle grenades
>"everyone is a grenadier" lol
>everyone has to also carry a magazine of blanks to fire their rifle grenades
>suppose the fastest frog troops carry one mag per nade loaded with a tracer for the first round followed by regular bullets
>either way you gotta change magazines before screwing the grenade on to the end of the barrel while not firing for many seconds
>still sucks
Cooper Cox
This. The M320 also adds 1.62kg to your weapon in its barebone configuration. The only big drawback of rifle grenades is that they give your gun a beating.
Oliver Rogers
It's not WW2 anymore... The grenades they use have bullet traps. KYS sly.
Nicholas Green
Shoot through and bullet trap grenades have been a thing for over fifty years.
Luis Campbell
>Using blanks to fire modern rifle grenades.
Dominic Phillips
You're a retarded nigger, fuck you.
Read
Isaac Barnes
M320s are complete pieces of shit. They're too bulky and too fucking heavy to mount to an M4, reliability issues, shorter range, the extendable stock is too unstable to shoot accurately, and cost three times as much as an M203.
It tries to do the job a UGL and a dedicated launcher and fails miserably at both. I'd honestly rather put up with the extra weight and just carry both an M203 on my rifle and an M79 in a backpack.
t. US Army grenadier
Camden Cook
I'd argue that it's a decent force multiplier.
>>see large enemy emplacement, barracks, MG nests, what have you
>>have advantage of surprise
>>tell whole squad to launch grenades in a volley
simultaneous grenades on target
>>immediately open up with aimed rifle fire and the occasional additional rifle grenade on any dazed survivors
>>iamerect.jpg
Camden Sanders
Well that what the French got with their HK416 order on top of being capable of firing rifle grenades for the 14.5" version, so they'll see which option they find more practical.
Ryder Watson
My country’s naval forces were going to start replacing M203s with M320s and decided against it after field testing after they found out that there was almost no reason for them to do it.
Angel Moore
Wrong.
Interesting thing to note, the HK416 are fitted for rifle grenades, and at the same time several thousand m320's were bought.
Isaac Cooper
>why do the french still use them?
Because they have to be different.
>rifle grenades
Even with bullet trap/shoot through I'd be willing to bet they're more worried about someone accidentally discharging a round into their hand as they put on a rifle grenade or having their gun on full retard and shooting the grenade right after they fire it
Austin Lewis
I have to admit that I would prefer rifle grenades over to the M320 for aforementioned reasons (bigger boom, longer range, doesn't need a dedicated system etc.). The only serious drawbacks I see is that I can't carry as many of them because of their size and that I can't use it instantly (i.e. I would need to put down my rifle and load it manually whereas I can keep an M203/M320 loaded at all times and fire at a target immediately).
Lincoln Collins
AFAICS the main benefit of the M320 is the ability to take longer grenades with exotic payloads (e.g pic related) and thats pretty niche for a lot of militaries. Is this wrong? Are there other benefits I'm not considering?
Austin Moore
>French
>Turbo faggots
Say no more
Thomas Green
Yeah, that sounds about right. It offers only mediocre improvements with things like side-sights (shit that you could buy separately and use on an M203 anyway) and A LOT of drawbacks, all while being many times more expensive.
I honestly think the Navy, Marines, and Air Force held back on adopting it because they realized it wasn't worth the money and now are being forced to because Trump is a complete cocksucker to defense contractors who are always looking to line their pockets with more taxpayer money.
To be fair, an M203 mounted on a FAMAS looks unergonomical but maybe that's just me.
Ian Barnes
>AFAICS the main benefit of the M320 is the ability to take longer grenades with exotic payloads (e.g pic related) and thats pretty niche for a lot of militaries.
Yeah, but how often do I actually use meme grenades like SPARCS? Almost never.
>Is this wrong?
No, but it's also not really worth replacing every M203 with it.
>Are there other benefits I'm not considering?
Not really except for the side-sights (which you can buy separately and just fix to your rails and use it with an M203).
Tyler Davis
>Yeah, but how often do I actually use meme grenades like SPARCS? Almost never.
Well yeah, thats what I meant by niche.
Jaxson Long
Is that a Famas?
Brayden Edwards
Because they have to put reinforced plates inside the lower handguard and screw big ass rail on it and then slide a M203 on it. The rifle wasn't designed for this nor was it to mount optics or anything. Just look at that poor thing just trying to have a handguard and red dot on it...
Brandon Miller
nah it's an ak47
Parker Harris
>hand guard and red dot
Meant to say vertical grip.
Anyway it's a shame they didn't change the lower handguard with the F1 Valorise package.
Ryan Lee
Yeah, the FAMAS was designed in the 70s, well before optics and special grips outside of SF became a thing and it was never really redesigned to be user-friendly in that regard (possibly because the French have been looking to replace it for years and figured upgrading wasn't worth the investment).
Although I have to admit I like carry handle-mounted scopes. They're cute.
Daniel Wright
A DUD!?
Christian Perry
No, it's a Glock.
Eli Edwards
Well the Mas49 had an optic mount.
Sebastian Evans
>guns just go off
>what is a safety
>what is semi-auto fire
Kayden Young
Mostly this. The AR platform would be a godsend, but old faggots who never worked a day in their lives will fight it to the death.
David Gray
What are you morons on about? You know the French adopted the HK416 already, right?
Jeremiah Jones
>I'm the smartest guy here
Hudson Hill
yeah, they (((adopted))) it, basically they will receive the HK416 in ver ysmall shipment adn the replacement for the FAMAS wil ltake years to acheive, the worst is they did the same fucking mistake as their predecessors
>hey let's buy all the guns instead of buying a few of them and trying them out for X number of years to see if the infantry likes it
>oh look like no one like it or it doesn't work as expected, let's try to found a shit ass excuse for all the money we burned
i can't to hear about all the guy in the infantry talking about their new gun, so far the only ones that talked to me about it were recon and they don't use rifle grenades or even use the actual french army 416
Justin Gutierrez
The HK416 and 417 for that matter has been in use for years by the French special forces in the Sahel and Afghanistan. Anyway what the fuck do you expect? They are going to shit out 100k rifles in a year? The new rifles come to the front line units first, actually the first shipment went to the Foreign Legion afaik.
Christopher Brown
Greater diversity of ammunition available, including lengthier grenades. The M203's design kinda limits that.
Isaiah Wright
no, its a bomb
Robert Gomez
yeah for marksmen
Jason Cooper
>roughly 1lb a nade
>effective range for explosive is superior by over double, but also over double the weight relative to 40x46
>shooting rifle grenade required one to attach a heavy object up front rather than from the side or behind
>1 shot rather than several shots in consecutive order (quickly reloading 40mm)
>more logisics to worry about
>recoil
Jaxon Sanchez
>can use HEAT
You realize the French AVAP is in 40mm right? And it’s not limited to rifle grenades.
Parker Torres
Not really. The charge of the grenade is irrelevent to the launcher, be it rifle grenade or GL.
Luis Lee
shot rather than several shots in consecutive order (quickly reloading 40mm)
>recoil
You were doing well until this point.
>more logisics to worry about
obviating the requirement of a launcher
David Powell
Because we lacked money to entirely change over to the UGL system.
It's as simple as that. Anything else is just being overdefensive about it. They're inaccurate as fuck, wearisome on the user to use (especially over a long firefight), you can only carry a tiny amount by comparison, you can't share with allies in the area, they take a lot longer to swap over to, reaim and use and you can't have both it and the rifle ready to fire at a moment's notice.
People might try pointing out some video game like comparisons about exact numbers and stuff, but the reality is they're fucking clumsy to operate and just not as flexible for the end user once you have them in your hands.
Aaron Murphy
Yeah, and the AC58 is 58mm. Your point?
Ian Lopez
HEAT isn’t exclusive to rifle grenades.
Landon Cook
>doesn't think that despite all the safeguards and discipline some idiot is still going to fuck it all up anyway
I don't think you've had the chance to meet too many of our nation's finest. For every 10 that know what they're doing there's one that is still a major fuck up
Liam Moore
40mm Grenade launchers have rifling, and you cant spin HEAT like that, it messes with the penetration.
Jaxon Ward
fag
HK416 isn't an AR as everyone knows.
They're fags.
faggot who don't know shit
hitler is right
turbo autist
>>hey let's buy all the guns instead of buying a few of them and trying them out for X number of years to see if the infantry likes it
Dumbfuck there are around 2000 HK416 and 417 in service with french SF since like 10 years. They tested the shit out of them.
Then they issued them to standard marine infantry going in Afghanistan. Who also tested the shit out of it.
thanks for trying to save Jow Forums
because you totally shoot M209 WHILE firing 5.56 like in your video games in the real world.
autist.
Julian Harris
Nevertheless it still penetrates in excess of 50mm of steel. It is possible they copied the German’s idea of modifying the driving band to enusre the grenade goes unspun.
Juan Green
>because you totally shoot M209 WHILE firing 5.56 like in your video games in the real world.
>autist.
>sperging out about somehing I never said
Look at the signs of autism. You have a couple of them.
Jayden Lee
The point is that HEAT's effectiveness is directly proportional to its diameter and Rifle Grenades can be both wider and have a greater proportion of their diameter dedicated to payload.
Wyatt Gray
You can "reload" a rifle grenade as fast as a UGL. It does not take long to put on the rifle.
And a UGL has more weight at the front of the rifle. A rifle grenade might be 1lb at the very tip, but a loaded UGL is 3.5lb almost as far out. And 3lbs of that are always on the end of your rifle, even when not using the grenade launcher.
Alexander Jackson
tis, penetration is limited to 150-200% of the diameter of the cone
Brayden White
>screwing the grenade onto the end of the barrel
Brody Anderson
How has nobody asked about the AT gun rifle grenade in the picture? What the hell is that thing?
Kevin Wood
The M203 has standalone adapters, does it not? I don't understand the rationale behind the M320 besides having the side swinging chamber.
Luis Moore
>effective
maximum is 400m tho
Cameron Morales
>The M203 has standalone adapters, does it not?
Yes it does.
>I don't understand the rationale behind the M320 besides having the side swinging chamber.
There is none, it's just another way to screw the taxpayer and line H&K's pockets.
Isaiah Jackson
Standalone adaptors aren't even really that necessary since the US Military still has a substantial stock of M79 launchers from the Vietnam period and they do the job a lot better because they have proper stocks, can shoot longer distance, and more accurately, and are reasonably light to carry in a backpack
Dylan Gray
>muh hk boogeyman
Kayden Cooper
Not much to explain. It's a rifle grenade for a 3.7cm anti tank gun since obviously the germans were unable to penetrate any T34 tanks with it so they came up with this:
Nolan Murphy
You can throw a lot more HE from a rifle grenade than a 203. You can even pack an honest to Buddha HEAT charge in the fuckers so with some luck, a fuckton of balls, and a serious amount of insanity you can open up an armored vehicle.... provided you can hit (and with a rifle grenade b/c of its rainbow ballistics...)
The French love their rifle grenades and their FLY-K mortars partially b/c their medium machineguns suck ass so you can either suppress w/ volume of fire or do it w/ a boom- so the French chose it w/ a boom.
Blake Hernandez
Then the French military is gonna find out w/ their neu Boche rifles every time they decide to light off a rifle grenade they're going to completely trash a receiver. As in either
warped so bad the bolt won't cycle or a cracked receiver. Even 203s tend to punish the fuck out 5.56 rifles and those rounds are a lot smaller and use a hi-low pressure cartridge case designed so you can use a pretty light launcher setup.