Seriously though...

>we didnt win on the battlefield
>we didnt win at home either.

We lost.

>m-muh war back home
>we got bored of fucking Charlie's shit up
Why is it so hard to accept that the US isn't an unbeatable fighting force?

Because the north only won once us forces and support was withdrawn.

And why did they withdraw?

>asks why the US failed to accomplish its objectives in ‘Nam
>inb4’s the answer

All right, just tell us what you want to hear faggot

same way the rhodesians lost.

>we didnt win on the battlefield
the US objectively stomped asses on the battlefield. Tet broke the operational capability of the VC and the NVA was being crippled by bomber missions. literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

t. aussie whos closer to vietnam than any burger

Because shit was expensive yo

It is also key that hostilities only restarted years after the us withdrawal.

They did a lot of the fighting before Hue, but after? It was the NVA charging at conscripts who didn't believe in the war, were tired, hated their officers, hated the media, and hated people back home for calling them baby-killers.
Also
>Vietnam
>the bad guys
>not the french

Not all victories are tactical.
We wasted lives, resources and money trying to grasp smoke while stepping all over the people we claimed to be saving. Then we were surprised to find all of these rural people that we and the government we were backing shat all over helping the enemy.

We got caught applying a military that was good at wrecking shit in a pacification role, which they did poorly. There was some success with the CAP program but because the results were hard to quantify we went back to body counts (and hey villagers/bystanders can be used to tip the scales). By the end the VC and NVA which were plenty brutal too seemed the lesser of two evils.

Really didn't help that the South Vietnamese government was insanely crooked, unstable and went out of it's way to piss all over the rural Buddhist majority.

Come to think of it South Korea was poor, corrupt and authoritarian as fuck up until relatively recently. We must have just assumed S. Vietnam could pull through like S. Korea did. Can anyone with more historical knowledge than me chime in on this comparison?

America killed 2 million, how is that losing?

>win an all out war
If America fought the war as an all-out conquest/occupation it would have lasted about 6 months.

Success based on body count doesn't work when the objectives aren't achieved. Look at the Soviets vs Nazi Germany. The Us lost the hearts and minds of the people of south vietnam and lost the support for the war back in the US

The Viet Kong knew that they were fighting for their home while the U.S. was fighting for their anti-comunist ideology, their idea was to wait it out while making it hard for the American forces to stay, and that's what they did. Read interviews people has with the leader of the VC and you will see.

Seems to always be their tactic with every war their in. Did it to the Japs, French and Chinese too

>Didn't win
USA ran away tail between their legs. Troll harder, burger.

Air superiority doesn't mean shit when you refuse to bomb the enemy's cities or logistical routes out of fear of media perception

>Victory is based on amount killed.
Tell that to the Germans that took on Russia

>all these butthurt soldiers
You had decades to win.

the korean war was u.n. vs china+soviet union, and a clear line was drawn. nowadays south koreas gdp isnt that bad, its much better compared to china, but not quite as good as japan.
on the other hand, vietnam wasnt as clear cut. there was a ton of corruption in the country during the war, which most likely extends to the current day, and its gdp is worse than the Philippines

>thinks PR bomb runs actually did real damage

bong is just as stupid as burger

The U.S. could've invaded the North, Incheon style, while pushing up from the South. The commies would've fled into Laos and China. Now China might invade. (They did in 1979 anyway.) Dunno how that would play out. Possibly stalemate like Korea.
Instead the U.S. kept the South afloat until 1975 when they declined to provide air support to the South. At this point, the (((press))) had done enough to demoralize the U.S. into abandoning the South to the commies.

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When will this retarded meme die

Viets surrendered, it was known as VV day or Victory in Vietnam day.

Then they started the war back up again after the US left and congress didn't care.

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Mostly by just existing. Pretty much every major NVA op against the US ended very poorly for them (we're talking about 10-100x more casualties than the US). By the time the US left Vietnam pretty much all NVA ops were over and limited to North Vietnam. The problem fundamentally was that we had picked very bad allies and didn't really have a plan or goal for South Vietnam. We didn't have any designs for rebuilding, the ARVN was a fucking joke, and Diem's government makes even the most corrupt dictators blush with modesty. Combine that with a strong populace support for Uncle Ho and it was just a time game. We had no interest in being there at the start, middle or end. France forced us to fight a colonial war for them and by the time we got fully sucked in we had to rebrand to keep ourselves in. We should have just allied with the Vietnamese. We could have had another foothold in Asia and would have been able to build up a better anti-China wall in the waters where shit really matters.

>Tet broke the operational capability of the VC
>NVA was being crippled by bomber missions
lol

>literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
that's why saigon fell isn't it m8

South Korea is a special case. The leadership we instilled while not perfect was nowhere near the incompetence level of S. Vietnam. On top of that most of the brutal terrifying bad dictatorships the Koreans went through were set up by themselves. We also had actual goals with Korea whereas in Vietnam we were mostly aimless and didn't really invest in making S. Vietnam a country with a force actually rebuilding and defending it. The whole thing was a mess of planning and organization.

they didn't the US was stabbed by itself. the NVA and even the vietcong came to the paris peace accord but bc dems won in large numbers the next election cycle they fucked over south vietnam and ourselves by proxy

US was playing defense. When your enemy is being supplied by two of your other enemies, both of whom have millions of factories full of starving peasants building guns, tanks, and mortars 24/7, while you on the other hand have devoted your precious resources to holding the line rather than fighting to their capital and shooting Ho Chi Minh in the face, you get the beta version of> what we're doing today, taking random fucking villages you've taken 7 times before so that the enemy can push you back and take it again next week for the next 5 years until the terrorists come back again and you get to play the same war again with a differently named terror group this time, but they're full of the same people doing the same things who believe the same things.

Vietnam was a transition point in history between a conventional battlefield and an insurgency.

We went into it with the same mindset from World War 2, thinking that we were the best. Unfortunately, we didn't win because even though we had more weapons and equipment, we did not have as much support from the civilian population and from other nations in general.

The communist guerrillas had a 3 phase plan:
1. The guerrilla war
2. Win support from civilians
3. Win support from other nations (Soviets, China, N Korea, and some sympathy from western countries like Sweden)

The vast majority of NVA/VC supplies came from Chinese/Russian suppliers. Uncle Ho worked both of the major commie powers against themselves to get so much gear it was insane.

Well, the South Koreans actually had the second largest military force in South Vietnam during the war, with over 5000 being KIA. They were used mainly as counter-insurgents, and by rule did not take any communists prisoner, ever. My Lai was a normal day for a ROK soldier in the iron triangle.

We went to great effort to train them up to fully western standards with hopes they could be a competent partner in the strategy that focused on winning decisively through air assault encirclements.. They were marginal at this role.

My Grandfather was a combat aviation battalion S-3 but was also an advisor for one of their airborne(qualified) infantry regiments.

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Every time the NVA either came out of the jungle, or made themselves known, they were immediately confronted with a US military that was fully designed for a conventional engagement, and had basically reached the golden age of unrestricted combined arms warfare.
Every time, as soon as US air power was moved into the area, and infantry divisions were shifted from around the country and isolated into one well contained area, the NVA ended up getting encircled by brigades or divisions, while being horrifically mauled by artillery and arc lights. They were losing hundreds of thousands KIA, losing all equipment, and morale was SHIT every time they had an offensive into the South.

The NVA were tough as hell, but eventually, they were always forced to fully retreat and abandon all major operations in SVN. This happened at least 5 times between 1965-1973.

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